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What are they, Chopped Liver?

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I notice how little credit the medical field gets from people on the site as far as their contribution to a patient getting better and beating cancer. The credit almost always goes to "the man upstairs". I can't help but think of the old Bill Cosby routine where he talks about having a son and getting his son started with football. He teaches his son how to play, takes him to all practices, games and everything. Finally the kid makes it to the "big time", mainly from the sacrifices that the father made, then when the kid catches the ball and makes the touchdown and the TV camera is on him, the kid says "Hi Mom!!!".
It's like the Dad had nothing to do with the kid getting where he got to. The same seems to be with people getting better from cancer. Rarely have I read "my doctors are the best" or "thanks to my medical team, I'm alive and doing well". It always seems to be "thanks to everyone's prayers I'm better" or "God made me better".

Didn't the doctors at least help with getting people better or is the answer to this going to be that God guided their hands.

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
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Joined: Jul 2006

I can answer this. It's their belief system. It is what helps them live life. The medical world makes mistakes but their belief system has no mistakes.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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why go to a doctor then?
This dawned on me around the holidays:
Here goes....it's like kids with Santa. They want to believe in Santa and that he leaves them presents under the tree every year. Kids don't want to lose the belief in something magical. So grown ups believe in their version of Santa (an old man with white beard) who magically cures them or rewards them BUT only if they are not naughty and if they believe in him. Otherwise they get a lump of coal (or maybe just a lump!) I believe that the similarities between Santa and good and bad and the reward system are VERY similar to the other good and bad reward system that adults often use and are not just a coincidence. Mankind created this, as they did the Santa story, to keep kids (and adults) in line.

All in all, there certainly is no harm in believing in Santa (or the other guy) but I think people should consider (and give some credit) that some real person is putting the presents under the tree or that they are removing the tumors etc.

I certainly don't have the answers but I feel it is a good thing to give credit where credit is due. many of these men and women devoted their entire lives to helping others and to trying to find a cure for cancer. To exclude them is not a nice thing to do.
(I know, God gave them the brains or told them it's their mission to do that type of work)

Wait...things are getting darker....

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

I am struck by this as well (and hope that neither you nor I is struck because we have been struck by this).

What I find most galling about it is not the belief but the implied hubris: to go back to the football reference, how is it that the player on the winning team dares to suggest that all of the credit goes to god, as if god favored this player and his team, as if god considered a game anything beyond absolutely trivial! (Although that might explain how 300 die in a sinking ferry: god was busy watching a football game.)

Every time I read a testament to the power and glory of god in saving someone from cancer, my first thought is, "Gee, think a lot of yourself, don't you, buddy?" My second thought is, "What about so-and-so, who also was a believer, but who died nonetheless?"

Most important though, in my humble opinion, is the chance that such comments, the rote ramblings of self-reverential robots, might be accepted on faith by others, that folks might forego needed treatment once assured that god will take care of them. That IS the logical extension of the argument, after all.

Just when I was becoming convinced that all of the important issues in the universe had already been covered in this board ... :).

Take care,

Joe

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Joined: May 2005

"Man you must be putting me on..."

if there WAS a god, Dallas would have lost!
Personally I don't care for football but saying that on the board is just about the same as saying that I don't believe in god. It's un-american.

I know what you mean Joe about the sinking ferry or why did do-and-so die. The obvious answer is that "the lord works in mysterious ways". Once in a while you may hear that "they didn't pray hard enough".

It does seem that most people on the board do put most of their faith in science even if it's not admitted publicly.

I kind of liked the Santa reference myself. But WAIT!!! You can't spell SATAN without SANTA!

See Joe, as long you stick around and check in you may see one of my profound posts! ;-)
I hope you and yours had a great holiday and that you all have a healthy and happy new year
-phil

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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As normal very interesting subject

I can only speak for my self on this and not for others or other Christians or groups. Faith is something that can’t be explained, I quote this from the Bible in Hebrew 11:1 Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

From the beginning of Man there has always been the need to worship, we look back in history and see many people who worship the Sun, or the Moon as it was God. There is just something about us that has this need built in side of us. Even people who don’t believe in God still worship something whether they know it or not. My Boss who I worked with for 28 years was an atheist and so I learned a lot of what atheists believe in, that’s right what they believe in, another word for Faith. If you believe in nothing you are still believing in something. This is kind of a paradox but yet it exist.

The hope of man is in something better then this life of sickness, pain and suffering and so believing in something helps to relieve this burden of sorrow. You might say a way of focusing on something else to relieve or passing pain on to something else “that is faith”.

As far as doctors I personnel believe that God has giving our doctors the wisdom needed to help us heal our broken bodies. I thank my doctors for what they do and praise the God I serve for bringing them in to my path. But I also believe that doctors are not the only source of healing in this world, this is my personal opinion, have you every wondered what we did before there were doctors.

We tend to all look at doctors as a miracle pill for when we mistreat our bodies and expect them to heal us so we can abuse it again, and so the need for our doctors grow. I am glad that they are there and most these days are there because they want to help people, the rest are there only for the money, you can always tell them apart in the way they treat you.

I am very lucky in a lot of ways but mostly one, my cancer doctor is a dedicated Christian who knows that he is only the instrument in the hand of God. He knows and understands my Faith and I know and understand that he will be there to help me make the right choice when the time comes.

Just my opinion so please don’t take anything wrong

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I'm glad you posted your opinion, there is nothing in there that I could (or would) take wrong. I do consider myself an agnostic. I do not know the answers but I do feel that events took place that put us all where we are today. Either through Mother Nature or a Supreme Being. I do not put a whole lot of my energy thinking (or worrying) what will happen to me when I die. I do not believe that I'm just dead and no longer have any consciousness but I don't believe in heaven and hell either. Maybe in the end we all go to where ever we wished we went after we die. I somehow can not see the Dali Lama being denied entry into Heaven because he did now take God as his god.

"The hope of man is in something better then this life of sickness, pain and suffering and so believing in something helps to relieve this burden of sorrow. You might say a way of focusing on something else to relieve or passing pain on to something else “that is faith”." Good point, I feel that is what man does too. The look for someone else to take care of things in the end and make everything alright. Not a bad thought.

You are right about man's constant quest for answers, that's probably one of the biggest things that separate us from other animals. I just happen to believe that the gods and The God were created because of man's desire to have those answers. The things that were worshiped has changed over time. First it was the sun and moon and celestial events, then on to crops and other food sources, then it seems more to the hereafter although the Egyptians seemed to put a lot of though into that with the pyramids and burial chambers.

While I feel that religion certainly has a place in society, the pain and suffering that many of them have caused throughout history outweighs many of the benefits. It does seem that like in many institutions, the problems come from the higher ups (no pun intended if I even made one) and less with the people who are trying to live their lives in a helpful caring way that is usually the constant theme in religion. The amount of power that religion have give the few at the top is astounding and not balanced at all to me. Too often, in my opinion, religion has been used as a means of keeping people in line and also as a course of wealth and power for the select few. Even today as I flip through the stations on my TV I see these charlatans taking money from people who really think these "preachers" can either cure them of make their lives more prosperous. Prosperous, that seems to be the big theme that I see. I think many people see that as another word for $$$. Useless if you don't have your health. I usually can't stay on the station too long, I get the same reaction if I try to watch FOX News :-)

So, I took a long way around to get to the whole doctor thing. I believe that the doctors do what they do because that is what THEY chose to do. Their hands or choices are not guided by a higher power unless that is what they want to believe. They may have been inspired by other people who helped others or by having a loved one die of a disease so they decide to try to cure people. Helping other is not just a religious act. It's something we all have in us if we choose to do so. I never even wondered in any way what religion, if any, that anyone I've been operated by believes in. To me it makes no difference as long as they are food at what they do.

I realize many find comfort in their religions. That's great for those who do. I know this is a hot topic and that is why it is not up on the Cancer forum. I still do feel that the constant tone of the colon cancer board has WAY too many religious on it than I care to see. I've come to understand it and know that many have left the site because of that. I do not wish to get involved in heated discussions on the main site but I will make comments that "defend" doctors and give them the credit they deserve and not putting it all in "his" hands.

It's great to see you post here Hondo. I may not agree with your beliefs but respect your beliefs. Hey, no one knows the answer and we don't find out until the end. Until then, I feel I have a responsibility to do right by my fellow man (and woman) and try to live a helpful life.
Hope you're feeling well.
-phil

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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As much as I hate too I must agree with what you are saying about some religions. What was to be a blessing to mankind has turned in to nothing more then a money making racket; but looking at the Bible I see that nothing has changed in 2000 years. Jesus did not call any of the religious leaders of his day, maybe because they too were trying to sell something that he was giving away for free. It is a shame to see people who are suppose to represent this humble man who showed nothing but Love and an unselfish life style degraded by there life of wealth and want to get more.

If you don’t mind I would like to quote what the Bible said is going to happen to all who misrepresent the truth of Gods word. Matthew:7:21-23: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There is a day coming when there wealth will do them no good. They may profess to be the leaders of there faith, but God said he never knew them. Many of the people feel that there is safety in the big religions of our world, the bigger the Church the safer they are. The exact opposite is true, I quote Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The remnant that the Bible is speaking of is not a large group but a small, very small group of true believers. So when I see these big so called Christian Churches with all there wealth and pride, I feel sorry for them. Jesus could not reach the religious leaders of his day no more then I can reach them these days, they will have there reward for leading so many good people in the wrong direction.

Like you said we all have our opinions, this is mine and the way I understand it, I don’t try to force it on anyone, if I did I too would be like one of them and I am not

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
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I enjoy this particular board a lot because it permits by its very existence a diversity of beliefs while insisting on tolerance of that diversity.

That is a cool thing.

I like to think that, for the most part (I have admittedly slipped up once or twice) I have honored that premise and even saluted it.

This makes it so much more perplexing that I find your response, hondo, disingenuous at the same time I can admire RE's response.

After careful reflection, I have come to this conclusion in that regard: Re does not explain her faith but simply announces it, while you explain yours.

That is important, I think, because faith does not require explanation (as you, yourself, note) and a person of faith understands this (which you, apparently, do not).

It is what it is.

Beyond that, I have some issues with your paragraphs (I know, I know, I am picking on you).

To wit: the notion that there has always been a need for worship, as you state, is actually a good argument for the probability that religion is something made up to appease the holes in our souls (to say nothing of Phil's suggestion that religion was invented by the rich to keep the rich rich).

The best argument for the existence of a god is the one indicated by RE: it just is.

Your understanding of 'history' leaves something to be desired, as well. The sun, the moon, these are pivotal in the development of religion and it is likely there would not BE a christianity without the religions that preceded it. Christianity would certainly not celebrate its rites on the dates that it does were it not for the sun and the moon and other religions devoted to the worship of these luminous orbs (I'm not talking about your breasts, RE, nor my own wife's for that matter, worshipful though I am of them).

The notion that belief is a binary system, that you either believe or believe not is also simplistic, in my humble opinion. You omit the option that is agnosticism, the lack of belief. Atheists, as you suggest, have faith. Agnostics reside in the world of "I don't know". It is not a happy land for most of us, but it is an honest one.

As for your pondering with respect to what we did before doctors?

We died.

You reveal again your lack of historical perspective. Look back 200 years, 100 years, even 50 years, even 20 years, and compare life expectancy then to what it is now.

Doctors and researchers are improving life and life expectancy on a DAILY basis, whether they believe in a god or not.

And, regarding the notion that we look at doctors as 'a miracle pill'? WTF? Do you have any evidence of that? On this site or elsewhere? I do not look at my doctors as miracle pills. I look at them as professionals dedicated to healing me.

You denigrate both the medical profession and faithful christians with your junk religion.

Just my opinion so please don't take anything wrong.

Joe

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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I try not to judge anyone because I know little about them or there back ground or history. I always say you don’t know a person unless you can walk a mile in there shoes

Take care

RE's picture
RE
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Hi Phill, well I was so struck by your stmt that I had to go back and see what I had written in my bio oh so long ago...here it is "My faith in God, the love of my family and friends and a fantastic medical team." My faith does give me comfort and strength to fight along with the wisdom that should I lose my fight against cancer I will still be okay because I know where I will be going. That does not mean I am ready to go which you all know since I obviously took the treatments offered and am still here. It is my belief that God puts folks in our path that can help us, however we have a choice to take that help or not to take that help. I am extremely grateful to my doctor, he is awesome and I love him a great deal, I am also grateful to God who I believe put me in his path as we are a great team. Mostly I am grateful to God who put my husband in my path who has and I believe always will be in my corner to support and aide me in my fight. Alright I've begun to rant, thanks for an interesting subject as always you have made me think.....:-).

RE

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I hope I don't seem like I am singling anyone out because I'm not. We all can believe whatever we want to believe.

I really like what you wrote and I can see how it would bring you comfort. I think that faith can be a wonderful thing. As far as God goes, I do not feel like I have the gift of faith (yet).

Thanks for your comments, be well.
-phil

RE's picture
RE
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Hey Phil it did not seem as if you were singling anyone out to me, it seemed more as if you were making an observation. I have had similar thoughts myself so to see it in print was quite interesting. Hope your day is a great one.

RE

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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To explain the God/doctor issue given by the one and only
Heidi Montag.

We should be OK with who we are

RE's picture
RE
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Gosh I think she was quite pretty the way she was. Hmmm there is a ton of improvements I could have done, tummy tuck (which I said no to when I had breast recon), face lift along with other lifts, I could go on and on but I truly am happy with who I am. I have had reconstruction due to breast cancer and although it is cosmetic it is also for the mental state of who I am. It simply made life easier not to have to put a fake breast in each and every day and then hope that it did not reverse itself while I was out (which it did do once). I watched my mom go through a double mastectomy in 75 when they basically gutted your chest, she was mentally devastated yet she went on and had 26 very good years. I am not perfect, no where near it but I am happy with the gal I am and I am not miserable with the one mauled breast and the one reconstructed breast, it is part of my walk here and has made me who I am. I hope Heidi becomes comfortable in her new skin.

RE

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I thought she was very attractive too, in general I find that most women look finer as they age. I can understand having re-constructive surgery too in many cases where there is a need.

With Hedi, I thought it was interesting when the interviewer mentioned that she is a christian and why isn't she happy with how God made her, she gave the answer I was expecting. God made the doctor who then did the surgery. I seriously doubt that God would do that, her reply was comical (to me).

I know I am rather cynical about all of this. I am the first to admit that I have none of the answers as to why we are here or how we got here. Like with anything, there isn't a blanket statement that covers all facets of the discussion.

I really like and admire your attitude Re.
-phil

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
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I have a friend who is a retired surgical nurse. She told me years ago what plastic surgery will do to you. She can pick out people who have had it done. But speaking of beauty, once I read an article about a woman who had something to do with white water rafting (it's been a long time and don't remember much about it). But there was a picture of her face. Very large picture and it was full of wrinkles. But you could see her spirit shine in her eyes and smile. It was a beautiful face. She loved what she was doing and it shone out and made her beautiful, wrinkles and all. I can still see that woman in my mind even tho I've forgotten the article. It's not the lack of wrinkles but your spirit that makes you beautiful. I keep reminding myself that nothing is important except your spirit because that is the only thing you get to take with you to the next life. I consider love part of your spirit. Sometimes you get wrapped up in life and forget it.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Marcia, what a great post. I think you are so right with how the expression would not have been the same on that woman if she had one of those stretched out faces that look as if they are stuck like that. There is little that is interesting in a plastic face but there is plenty that is interesting in a weathered face. I'm not saying one's face should look like shoe leather, but aging is part of the whole package.
Thanks for your comments
-p

RE's picture
RE
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What a beautiful and sincere statement you make Marcia, I have nothing to add what you said was perfect in my book.

Hugs,

RE

grandmafay's picture
grandmafay
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I love the posts here, but mostly I just lurk. Today I decided to comment. Today would have been my dad's 92 birthday. He died in 2000. I write this because my dad was an atheist. He never seemed to question his belief that there was no God. He particularly disliked the business of God. So that is how I grew up. He was tolerant enough to allow me to attend church and church functions with friends when I was invited. He saw those as social events. In college, I met and later married a good baptist boy. At that time I considered myself an agnostic. I didn't know what I believed and didn't care. Early in the relationship, I went to church with the baptist boy. After church, he asked me what I thought of the sermon which included the phrase,"If you don't accept Christ right now, you are on a toboggan straight to Hell," repeated several times. I told him I wasn't impressed. He told me that I was going to Hell. Interesting date! Anyway, after I got over the shock, I decided that I really should figure out what I believed. I was a teenager in college in the 60's. Knowing ourselves was in.

I will try to make what was a fairly long story as short as I can. I asked all my friends in the dorms to take me to their worship services. I started reading the Bible. I started with the Old Testament but was directed by a friend who planned to go to seminary to move to the New Testament. I later took a class on Old Testament, but that's a different story. I didn't study the Bible at that time. I just read it. At some point in this process, I realized that I was having conversations with God in my head. I was questioning Him/Her. More importantly, I was getting answers. I had faith. I can't explain it. I still question it at times. I even get mad at God. I am not a Biblical scholar and don't know a lot Bible verses by heart. I take the Bible seriously, but not literally. I believe in the God of the New Testament as personified by Jesus. I do not, however, discount the beliefs of others. My way is just that. My journey is a personal one. I now go to a United Church of Christ church where every service starts with, "Whoever you are and wherever you are on life's journey, you are welcome here." I also believe that although my husband died , his journey continues. During his fight with cancer, I prayed for healing. I prayed for the doctors and other care providers and I prayed for peace. We thanked every one of the doctors for their care. Having faith doesn't mean we always get what we want when we pray. Sometimes, God says no.

Ok, so much for short. Blessings, Fay

PS. I should add that over the years of living with me, my husband moderated his views. I don't think he ever again told someone they were going to Hell.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I was raised in a typical Irish Catholic household. Well, maybe not typical, there were only 3 kids! All 3 of us kids went to catholic school too. Wow, what a first date. I have heard statements similar to that but never face to face. I'm not sure how I would handle it, it's such a "way out" comment that I certainly could not take it seriously. Yet many do believe that. I found the use of the word tobaggon funny, the snow would melt on the trip there I'd imagine ;-)

I have never taken the time to really figure out what I believe. I have enjoyed reading some Joseph Campbell and I like how he would take themes that occur in different faiths and show the common thread. It is interesting that there are many faiths that have virgin births, holy trinities and sacrifice for redemption. The church you go to now sounds very welcoming. That's great.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Fay and please comment more. It's open to everyone.
-phil

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mariam_11_09
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When we sees ourselves as seperate somethings then we don't get to experience the bigger picture that our wonderful doctors (and mine so far have been extremely caring) are simply an extension of god/the divine/the universe etc as we are too. Isn't it god working through people?

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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if you believe in god...
What if you don't?

RE's picture
RE
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Phil you are such a stinker! ~LOL~ Sorry, but your response put a picture of you winking as you sat by the huge kettle (pot) you were stirring. Don't get me wrong you know I clearly enjoy your posts, this simple answer just made me grin.

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PhillieG
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I'm not (always) trying to cause trouble. I am just bringing up an alternate opinion. Not everyone believes in God as we all know. At least I like think we all know that ;-)

I know where you're coming from RE just as you know where I'm coming from
;-)

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mariam_11_09
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If you don't believe in God do you see yourself as 'seperate' from everything around you including people? And that we are not all interelated and connected?

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I consider myself an agnostic so I do not know if there is or isn't a God. I do know that I do not believe in the God that humans created and is taught in modern Christianity.

I DO see myself very connected to everything around me and to people around me too. All people and all things. Unfortunately, that common connection with all living things isn't how I have understood the God that was taught to be in Catholic school nor is it how I understand the God that is always talked about today in the three main religions. It is, and in my opinion, has been a very exclusive situation where if one is not of a particular belief then they are not worthy, infidels, dangerous, etc. I find that no one is any more or less worthy or dangerous than the other and that the lack of religious tolerance is a big problem in todays world.

I am currently listening to some of Karen Armstrong's interviews. I saw her on a rerun of a Charlie Rose show then started to listen to an interview with Bill Moyers. I think she brings up so many great points about faith and religion. Compassion is at the center of all faiths in the early teachings but as time has gone on, that seems to have been lost to a great extent.

So Mariam, I do feel myself connected to all things. I also do not feel that a believe in God is required for that feeling.

*just on a side note. I find that sometimes when I reply to a particular comment that my comment may look like it's directed to another comment. Sometimes the order gets messed up and can be confusing. I'm not saying that happened this time, it just happens some times.

RE's picture
RE
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Hi Kathy, none of us our truly chopped liver...maybe misunderstood but not chopped liver. :-) I frequent the breast cancer board because that is the cancer I have gotten, although you may have seen me a few times on the colon board in regards to Kimby. I hope things improve for you in regards to be colon board. I agree tht the Lord may have guided your steps, but it still our choice to take action or not. Wishing you all the best.

RE

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Kathryn_in_MN
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I've been busy with an awful week battling the cancer, and must have missed a lot. Not sure exactly what has been going on with the board, but reading undertones here and there, and now I find this new section. Geez - spend some time in the hospital and the ER instead of online and you fall behind quickly. ;)

I do want to say that I totally agree with personal choice, no matter what your religious beliefs are. I believe in free will, not pre-destiny. God may provide you with tools, but you need to choose to use them.

There is an old joke that really says it well. A dumb blonde joke, which I am allowed to tell since I am blonde... A blonde prays to God every night to please let her win the lottery. She never has any success. Finally she asks God why although she prays every night to win the lottery, she never does. God says, "You've got to help me out here - you need to at least purchase a lottery ticket."

That sums it up. We need to be responsible for ourselves. We are given tools - wherever you believe they come from - whether you believe in a higher power or not. We need to make the choice to use them. I don't expect to sit around and pray and be cured. I expect to combine that with research, using modern medicine, complimentary medicine, and anything else that I believe may help me, and put some effort into it myself too!

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I hope that this year is a better year for us all. We seemed to have lost quite a few people from the colon cancer site this year alone. It's more than any year I've witnessed since signing on 5+ years ago.

There are always new advances in the medical profession and I hope (and pray...) that they find their way to help all of us who are in dire need of help. I know we all believe what we want to believe but I do believe that the medical profession has a lot to do with helping us beat this.

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
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We've lost a few also from the breast cancer board. I was wondering why. I mean I've been a part of this site for a few years and it seems to be more in the last couple. It could be that there are more signing in and closer connections between members mean we find out when someone loses the battle. Maybe before members just stopped posting and we didn't know what happened to them.

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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I agree this year also on Head & Neck we lost so many of our friends, I only been here for two years and it seamed to be the worse of years.

I like everyone hope this is the year they will find a cure for this stuff, if not just a better way of finding Cancer early. Maybe with a simple blood test.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_med_cancer_blood_test

All the best in 2011
Hondo

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
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Should probably be a new post, phil.

I have been on this site for almost five years, and to be honest I left once because the incidence of losses of friends was just a bit much to take. I re-grouped and came back, but it IS tough for regular 'customers' :).

I happen to make real friends here, and I know that some of my more egrarious friends even hook up from time to time in real life when they are passing through one another's towns or nearby. It is sad to lose a friend, however tenuous the relationship. It is tough to lose a friend when one spends time trying to encourage that friend to hang in there, to tough it out.

Yes, Phil, there are marvelous advances in medical technology every day, and each of them is exciting. I am not wont to disparage what these folks do and even admit that I wish I had dedicated myself to joining them many years ago. And there is certainly no doubt that medicine and medical professionals help us beat this, if we can, but we help each other as well.

Do not forget the power of WE.

Again, should be a new post, my friend. And best wishes to all who are here to read it!

Take care,

Joe

bluerose's picture
bluerose
Posts: 1089
Joined: Jul 2009

He gave them free will too. That's my answer as irritating as that might be to you. lol. Just kidding around Phil - um, kinda', lol.

But the point about how the medical profession doesn't give us enough credit for helping struck a chord with me. I think it was E flat. lol. What's wrong with me today, sheeesh. lol.

Anywho seriously up here in Canada we just had a feature on our news broadcasts about the medical community warning patients about searching the internet for medical advice. That kind of story drives people further away from investigating on their own.

Duh of course there are idiotic sites online, trash about this cure and that but reputable sites like this one and Mayo Clinic and PubMed and ACOR are all very helpful and reputable. I think the medical community does patients a disserve by dissing support sites like this. How many times do you see newbies say that they feel so much better after talking to survivors and others with their issues, many of which we have in common with alot of cancer patients? Ticks me off.

I think the medical community is a tad ticked at the fact that now patients are empowered through doing their own research online and have too many questions now for their docs, taking up their precious time perhaps? Many of them don't like to be 'second guessed' but it's not about that it's about empowering ourselves with info when empowering ourselves physically when having cancer treatments isn't easy at all. Information is power and we need that and the net gives us that. Doctors sometimes do not give patients enough credit for having a brain. Hey I'm not dissing all docs at all but everyone knows there are some who are just plain threatened by an empowered patient. Docs saved my life and cured me so not complaining here, just throwing in my take on this subject through my own experiences, and I know, the experiences of others as well on this topic. Stories like the one on tv today warning people about not following advice they find on the net is doing alot of people a great injustice. Validation is huge to cancer patients, of their symtpoms of their feelings and their instincts and on sites like ours we can give them validation because we too have experienced many of their issues. Hmm, time to take my blood pressure I think. lol.

Yup there should be caution when it comes to the net with nuts online and silly sites but with common sense, as most people do have, they can gain alot through doing their own research. Support sites are wonderful, I don't have to tell you that Phil, right? Right.

Anywho that is my 3 cents, 2 is just not enough for me. lol.

Have a good day Philster.

Blessings,

Bluerose

nasher
Posts: 507
Joined: Apr 2010

Down in the US we heard about all the hoaxes and bad info on the web...

I have found that if you take what’s on the web and look at it you can normally sort the good and bad info...

ALSO realize that Doctors are not perfect and no test is perfect

You have to be your own advocate and fight this through. Sure there is bad medical info out there but the docs have been wrong too.

It’s kind of like this board here not many (if any) of us are medical professionals, and we may or may not give info 100% accurate to other people. But for myself I know how my cancer and treatment has affected me and I know what works for me. If your doctor won’t listen to your concerns find a new one

It is amazing how helpful this site has been to me since I was registered and I wish I found it back in Feb 2010 when I was diagnosed it would have helped a lot then.

The doctors I deal with normally like the fact that I know the basic info and can talk there language. I know when I was getting ready for Radioactive Iodine treatment if I didn’t have this site I would have missed a lot of important info and would not have asked some of the questions.

---
Unrelated to cancer -- 7 years ago I started losing my hearing fairly rapidly and the doctors said it was occupational and nothing I could do about it. about 1.5 years ago a doctor finally listened and checked my records and started me on appointments to get my hearing fixed (I used to have a hearing threshold of 75DB in my good ear, normal conversation is 60 db) now after surgeries to both my ears I am now at 25DB threshold of hearing (almost normal). the only way I can relate this to cancer is the SAME doctor who figured that my hearing was repairable was the same doctor who found the lump in my throat that ended up to be thyroid cancer.

remember the doctors are only human as well and they can make mistakes

RE's picture
RE
Posts: 4606
Joined: Feb 2004

No they are not chopped liver, at least not in my eyes. They are the men and women who give up a piece of them selves to do all they can to heal us. I am here today because I was put in their path and I accepted the help they have the skill to offer. I LOVE my oncologist immensely, he hugs me when he sees me and when I leave, he asks how my husband is doing and tells me how glad he is to see me....but most of all he has worked hard over the last 13 years to keep me alive....I love that man and his wife who just so happens to share my name.

RE

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

I think Colin should come with you from now on Re...this guy has the hots for you! :)

Take care my sweet friend,

Joe

Sundanceh's picture
Sundanceh
Posts: 4300
Joined: Jun 2009

Well, you certainly know that I agree with you on having a good medical team - especially a good surgical team.

All of my surgeons and their medical team have done a tremendous job at keeping me upright and breathing...of course, I paid my pound of flesh, but I researched my surgeons, talked with them and came up with a plan - and then they did their part with their skill - and I did my part with my recoveries.

It was definitely a team effort and I, like you, always mention what a good job the doctors have done with me. And my old onc and his staff were not crackerjack, but that happens, so I switched to a new team and we've been working together nicely for the last 18 months or so.

Good to see you again, Phil...it's lonely on the other side of the world.

And Kathy (luvinlife2) even though you're away from the board, let's still keep in touch...I always wonder how you have been doing since your surgery - I've taken a beatin' since mine.

Good seeing you both.
-Craig

Nana b's picture
Nana b
Posts: 2921
Joined: May 2009

As you know, Thus forum is for those that believe, they should be allowed to pray and speak in peace among their selves! It's not a place to debate

CSN. You should monitor this forum more closely!

dasspears
Posts: 233
Joined: Feb 2009

Phil was merely meditating on a subject. Anyone is welcome to note their insights. I thought he did a very good job.

Nana b's picture
Nana b
Posts: 2921
Joined: May 2009

People come here for prayer.

Amen.

dasspears
Posts: 233
Joined: Feb 2009

Spirituality and Meditation. Hence the name.

Nana b's picture
Nana b
Posts: 2921
Joined: May 2009

And, peace! Yes!

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