Nerve Damage/Muscle Loss following Surgery

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nancybuck
nancybuck Member Posts: 117

Has anyone in this forum suffered with numbness, pain and/or muscle loss following their surgery for kidney cancer.   Since my procedure in October I have been dealing with this and it is awful to say the least. I saw my urologic oncologist on Tuesday and he stated that sometimes nerves are accidentally severed during surgery and sometimes they regenerage, sometimes not. I was mortified as I have this numbness (which is painful, really) my entire left lower quadrant. My procedure was cryoablation performed by a radiologist.  Just thought I would check with you all for any feedback you may have.

Thank you all and please be well.

Kindest regards friends.

 

Nancy

Comments

  • foxhd
    foxhd Member Posts: 3,181 Member
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    nerve damage

    Nancy, you'll improve. I sincerely doubt that any permanent damage has been done. Sensory loss happens from  peripheral damage to your superficial cutaneous nerves. Consider your spinal cord a tree. Limbs or branches are nerve branches. Pretty large. Then its the twigs and nerve endings. They can be damaged but usually can be traced to a specific nerve root. Maybe two. Probably between t-8 to L-2. It's not that they can be accidently damaged but with any incision, sensory cutaneous nerves have to be severed as you cut through the skin. Thus the sensory disruption.

    The motor nerves are so much deeper that they are not generally affected. However, reflexes play a significant role. One of two things happen. To protect ourselves the reflex will either have a withdrawl response( like pulling our hand away from a hot stove) or an inhibitory response(like if you slam your thumb in a car door) One moment the thumb is as strong as ever, then suddenly you can't move it at all when the pain hits. I suspect that is the cause of your weakness.

    Most of us have numbness on the distal side of a surgical incision.  With time you just don't notice because the nervous system accommodates and the stimulus plays no long term protective significance. As you heal, the strength returns. It was never really lost. Just turned off.

    The pain is proof that you are still in an acute phase. There is inflammation, swelling, cell die off, and these all are telling you to back off from doing too much. Sometimes people don't listen to their bodies so the reflexes take over. Hence pain, numbness and weakness. Cell die off releases chemicals that stimulate the response.

    My advice is that you continue to pay attention to what you feel. Slowly increase your activity while you are healing. ( this could be months). Your body will begin to percieve your activity as normal. Returning to normal requires normal activity. When your body becomes aware that what you are doing is no longer a risk to damaging yourself, things improve. Everybody responds the same. All to varying degrees.

    All this proves that serious injury or surgical procedures is no joking matter. Through this all keep an eye on your temperature to ensure you have no infections delaying your progress.

  • APny
    APny Member Posts: 1,995 Member
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    foxhd said:

    nerve damage

    Nancy, you'll improve. I sincerely doubt that any permanent damage has been done. Sensory loss happens from  peripheral damage to your superficial cutaneous nerves. Consider your spinal cord a tree. Limbs or branches are nerve branches. Pretty large. Then its the twigs and nerve endings. They can be damaged but usually can be traced to a specific nerve root. Maybe two. Probably between t-8 to L-2. It's not that they can be accidently damaged but with any incision, sensory cutaneous nerves have to be severed as you cut through the skin. Thus the sensory disruption.

    The motor nerves are so much deeper that they are not generally affected. However, reflexes play a significant role. One of two things happen. To protect ourselves the reflex will either have a withdrawl response( like pulling our hand away from a hot stove) or an inhibitory response(like if you slam your thumb in a car door) One moment the thumb is as strong as ever, then suddenly you can't move it at all when the pain hits. I suspect that is the cause of your weakness.

    Most of us have numbness on the distal side of a surgical incision.  With time you just don't notice because the nervous system accommodates and the stimulus plays no long term protective significance. As you heal, the strength returns. It was never really lost. Just turned off.

    The pain is proof that you are still in an acute phase. There is inflammation, swelling, cell die off, and these all are telling you to back off from doing too much. Sometimes people don't listen to their bodies so the reflexes take over. Hence pain, numbness and weakness. Cell die off releases chemicals that stimulate the response.

    My advice is that you continue to pay attention to what you feel. Slowly increase your activity while you are healing. ( this could be months). Your body will begin to percieve your activity as normal. Returning to normal requires normal activity. When your body becomes aware that what you are doing is no longer a risk to damaging yourself, things improve. Everybody responds the same. All to varying degrees.

    All this proves that serious injury or surgical procedures is no joking matter. Through this all keep an eye on your temperature to ensure you have no infections delaying your progress.

    My hip area and even upper

    My hip area and even upper thigh was numb for a long time after surgery. I don't remember for how long but definitely longer than since you had your surgery. It's fine now so don't lose hope. It just take time for the nerves to wake up. Even the area around my incision lost the numbness. I'm not familiar with the effects of cryoablation but I'm sure you will start feeling sensations. I doubt it's permanent.

  • nancybuck
    nancybuck Member Posts: 117
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    foxhd said:

    nerve damage

    Nancy, you'll improve. I sincerely doubt that any permanent damage has been done. Sensory loss happens from  peripheral damage to your superficial cutaneous nerves. Consider your spinal cord a tree. Limbs or branches are nerve branches. Pretty large. Then its the twigs and nerve endings. They can be damaged but usually can be traced to a specific nerve root. Maybe two. Probably between t-8 to L-2. It's not that they can be accidently damaged but with any incision, sensory cutaneous nerves have to be severed as you cut through the skin. Thus the sensory disruption.

    The motor nerves are so much deeper that they are not generally affected. However, reflexes play a significant role. One of two things happen. To protect ourselves the reflex will either have a withdrawl response( like pulling our hand away from a hot stove) or an inhibitory response(like if you slam your thumb in a car door) One moment the thumb is as strong as ever, then suddenly you can't move it at all when the pain hits. I suspect that is the cause of your weakness.

    Most of us have numbness on the distal side of a surgical incision.  With time you just don't notice because the nervous system accommodates and the stimulus plays no long term protective significance. As you heal, the strength returns. It was never really lost. Just turned off.

    The pain is proof that you are still in an acute phase. There is inflammation, swelling, cell die off, and these all are telling you to back off from doing too much. Sometimes people don't listen to their bodies so the reflexes take over. Hence pain, numbness and weakness. Cell die off releases chemicals that stimulate the response.

    My advice is that you continue to pay attention to what you feel. Slowly increase your activity while you are healing. ( this could be months). Your body will begin to percieve your activity as normal. Returning to normal requires normal activity. When your body becomes aware that what you are doing is no longer a risk to damaging yourself, things improve. Everybody responds the same. All to varying degrees.

    All this proves that serious injury or surgical procedures is no joking matter. Through this all keep an eye on your temperature to ensure you have no infections delaying your progress.

    Foxhd

    I cannot thank you enough for your reply.It means the world to me to know that this is something that will, eventually, get better. I so appreciate your taking the time to explain this to me!

    I have been thinking that I must be doing something wrong, like not exercising or whatever. When I have tried, it really is uncomfortable. I will certainly take your valued advice.

     

    Be well friend.

     

    Nancy

  • nancybuck
    nancybuck Member Posts: 117
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    APny said:

    My hip area and even upper

    My hip area and even upper thigh was numb for a long time after surgery. I don't remember for how long but definitely longer than since you had your surgery. It's fine now so don't lose hope. It just take time for the nerves to wake up. Even the area around my incision lost the numbness. I'm not familiar with the effects of cryoablation but I'm sure you will start feeling sensations. I doubt it's permanent.

    thank you APny

    Another reply which is most appreciated. I am so glad to know that all I need is patience.

    Please take care and be well.

     

    Nancy

     

  • Max57
    Max57 Member Posts: 177 Member
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    Nancy

    almost 9 months the numbness still there its stil tight... but the good news it will get better for you  sit tight relax take it easy the worst part is behind you 

    happy holidays 

  • foxhd
    foxhd Member Posts: 3,181 Member
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    nancybuck said:

    Foxhd

    I cannot thank you enough for your reply.It means the world to me to know that this is something that will, eventually, get better. I so appreciate your taking the time to explain this to me!

    I have been thinking that I must be doing something wrong, like not exercising or whatever. When I have tried, it really is uncomfortable. I will certainly take your valued advice.

     

    Be well friend.

     

    Nancy

    Nancy

    Sometimes deep scarring and adhesions develope. If this persists past 6-9 months, get a referrral to a PT who can teach you how to mobilize that area. It pays to know what you're doing.

  • Ree_Maryland
    Ree_Maryland Member Posts: 161 Member
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    nancy

    I had a right kidney neph lap. on April 21,2014 , the pain on my right side down to almost the groin area hurt constantly  , DR checkec to make sure it was not a hernia . and it was not . now here it is 2015 ,pain fially gone , it went away in November ,thank goodness ,hope you find some comfort soon , hang in there, it may go away after several mth.

  • marosa
    marosa Member Posts: 334 Member
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    nancy

    I had a right kidney neph lap. on April 21,2014 , the pain on my right side down to almost the groin area hurt constantly  , DR checkec to make sure it was not a hernia . and it was not . now here it is 2015 ,pain fially gone , it went away in November ,thank goodness ,hope you find some comfort soon , hang in there, it may go away after several mth.

    Hi Nancy

     Numbness, tightness and some pain where there for me on and off for about 9 months after surgery, not very bad but very present and it kept me from being able to stop thinking about it all.   It finally went back to normal and with it the feeling of feeling kind of handicapped.   Still, sometimes, the area deep inside feels tight when Im very tired or stressed. Give it some time but do follow Fox's advice!  

  • nancybuck
    nancybuck Member Posts: 117
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    Max57 said:

    Nancy

    almost 9 months the numbness still there its stil tight... but the good news it will get better for you  sit tight relax take it easy the worst part is behind you 

    happy holidays 

    Thank you

    Max57 thank you for responding. I am so happy to read the responses. I am so miserable right now, but happy to know that it will eventually reverse.

     

    Be well friend and happy holildays to you and yours.

     

    Nancy

  • nancybuck
    nancybuck Member Posts: 117
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    nancy

    I had a right kidney neph lap. on April 21,2014 , the pain on my right side down to almost the groin area hurt constantly  , DR checkec to make sure it was not a hernia . and it was not . now here it is 2015 ,pain fially gone , it went away in November ,thank goodness ,hope you find some comfort soon , hang in there, it may go away after several mth.

    I thought it was a hernia too, but the CT showed otherwise.  Thank you for your response. I am so encouraged now.

     

    I hope you are well.  Happy Holidays to you and yours.

     

    Nancy

  • nancybuck
    nancybuck Member Posts: 117
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    marosa said:

    Hi Nancy

     Numbness, tightness and some pain where there for me on and off for about 9 months after surgery, not very bad but very present and it kept me from being able to stop thinking about it all.   It finally went back to normal and with it the feeling of feeling kind of handicapped.   Still, sometimes, the area deep inside feels tight when Im very tired or stressed. Give it some time but do follow Fox's advice!  

    Marosa

    Seems like many of us on this site have experienced some type of nerve damages. 

    Thank you so much for your advices. I am so appreciative of all of you and this site. I would be lost without all of you.

     

    Happy Holidays to you and yours.

     

    Nancy

  • dhs1963
    dhs1963 Member Posts: 513
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    3 1/2 years here....

    Surgery (Nephrectomy) was 3 1/2 years ago...Still numb and sometime painful.  No physician takes the pain seriously.  There is no hernia; it is scar tissue and nerve damage.  On the other hand, I am alive.  But, it hurts when I exersize.  I can not put any stress on the abdomen; I no longer swim.  I can not lift heavy objects any more.  And, at times, it hurts to get out the car.

    But, I would be dead if I did not have the surgery....

  • Jan4you
    Jan4you Member Posts: 1,330 Member
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    dhs1963 said:

    3 1/2 years here....

    Surgery (Nephrectomy) was 3 1/2 years ago...Still numb and sometime painful.  No physician takes the pain seriously.  There is no hernia; it is scar tissue and nerve damage.  On the other hand, I am alive.  But, it hurts when I exersize.  I can not put any stress on the abdomen; I no longer swim.  I can not lift heavy objects any more.  And, at times, it hurts to get out the car.

    But, I would be dead if I did not have the surgery....

    Hi there Nancy!
    Sorry you are

    Hi there Nancy!

    Sorry you are going through this. I had another surgery and still no "feeling" on the dorsal side as Fox said. Fox's description=very helpful!

    Now, I do know of lazer light therapy for scars. It is a very high powered lazer and it was inexpensive and helpful for another scar. MDs do not do this, that I know of, but try an alternative medicine type place. Seems to get the severed nerve endings to rejuvenate. It was helpful for me.

    Just know you are not alone and not completely healed yet.

    Good luck!

    Jan

  • nancybuck
    nancybuck Member Posts: 117
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    dhs1963 said:

    3 1/2 years here....

    Surgery (Nephrectomy) was 3 1/2 years ago...Still numb and sometime painful.  No physician takes the pain seriously.  There is no hernia; it is scar tissue and nerve damage.  On the other hand, I am alive.  But, it hurts when I exersize.  I can not put any stress on the abdomen; I no longer swim.  I can not lift heavy objects any more.  And, at times, it hurts to get out the car.

    But, I would be dead if I did not have the surgery....

    DHS1963

    I am so appreciatiive of your response and the others. I think some of my family members an friends think that I am crazy, complainint of numbness and pain!  However, I am thankful to read that you and others here have experienced the same sensations. I wish you well and a wonderful holiday season.

     

    Be well friend.

     

    Nancy

  • nancybuck
    nancybuck Member Posts: 117
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    Jan4you said:

    Hi there Nancy!
    Sorry you are

    Hi there Nancy!

    Sorry you are going through this. I had another surgery and still no "feeling" on the dorsal side as Fox said. Fox's description=very helpful!

    Now, I do know of lazer light therapy for scars. It is a very high powered lazer and it was inexpensive and helpful for another scar. MDs do not do this, that I know of, but try an alternative medicine type place. Seems to get the severed nerve endings to rejuvenate. It was helpful for me.

    Just know you are not alone and not completely healed yet.

    Good luck!

    Jan

    Thank you Jan

    I suppose I thought that I would be "up and running" shortly after my procedure. I now know that it takes time to heal.

     

    Your last sentence certainly brings comfort and encouragement.

     

    Merry Christmas to you and yours.

     

    Nancy

  • jason.2835
    jason.2835 Member Posts: 337 Member
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    Lucky & Unlucky

    Nancy,

    My kidney procedure was pretty painless, to be honest.  Had a robotic radical neph in Oct 2015.  Worst part was fatigue.  So that was the lucky part.

    Not so lucky was my procedure in March of this year to remove my gallbladder.  It was FUSED to the bottom of my liver and the surgeon had to get creative to remove it.  Ended up leaving a small piece of it in because he was concerned he would damage my liver.  The other problem was that he had to convert to an open procedure, which gave me a nice 7-inch scar in my upper right abdominal quadrant right under the rib cage.  I still deal with general numbness and occasional a pinching pain the area.  It's not terrible, but it's there.  

    Pain after surgery can linger for a while.  There's a lot going on under the surface that we can't see.  Just make sure you've done everything you can in speaking with your doctors to have them verify that they didn't do a butcher job on you.

    - Jay

  • nancybuck
    nancybuck Member Posts: 117
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    Lucky & Unlucky

    Nancy,

    My kidney procedure was pretty painless, to be honest.  Had a robotic radical neph in Oct 2015.  Worst part was fatigue.  So that was the lucky part.

    Not so lucky was my procedure in March of this year to remove my gallbladder.  It was FUSED to the bottom of my liver and the surgeon had to get creative to remove it.  Ended up leaving a small piece of it in because he was concerned he would damage my liver.  The other problem was that he had to convert to an open procedure, which gave me a nice 7-inch scar in my upper right abdominal quadrant right under the rib cage.  I still deal with general numbness and occasional a pinching pain the area.  It's not terrible, but it's there.  

    Pain after surgery can linger for a while.  There's a lot going on under the surface that we can't see.  Just make sure you've done everything you can in speaking with your doctors to have them verify that they didn't do a butcher job on you.

    - Jay

    Precious Baby

    Thank you for your response to my inquiry. I am so appreciative of all of the responses I have had. Such good advice from you and the rest of our forum friends.

    Merry Christmas to you and yours.