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Daily Calorie intake

J.R. and June's picture
J.R. and June
Posts: 60
Joined: Aug 2013

Hi All:

This is more or less an update to the Mouth Sores topic. I imagine that all of the various products take some time to work, however at this point, my mom can't swallow anything. She is actively using her PEG tube, but I am worried that she is not inputing enough calories. She is only putting about 3 boosts in there (720 or so calories per day). My mom is somewhat small (125 LBS) and about 5'4' or so. How many calories should she be consuming? I assume at least 1,200 per day?

Thanks so much for your help.

-Robin

donfoo's picture
donfoo
Posts: 1239
Joined: Dec 2012

Hi Robin,

There is not exact number and it varies somewhat by each person's metabolism but getting closer to 2000 is much better and since this is a PEG food it should not be too hard to get that in. There are high calorie versions that pack more calories into the same volume. 

Hyddration is critical and she needs to be taking in about 48oz liquid or more daily.

Get a reliable scale and just check her weight often and that will be a very good indicator of how she is doing nutrition wise.

 

don

 

phrannie51's picture
phrannie51
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mar 2012

I was using Boost VHC (very high calorie) which has 530 calories each.....so with those my calories were almost 1600 a day and still only having to do 3 to get those calories in.  I also used milk to thin it so it'd go down the tube easier.  I too am pretty small (5'1" and 97 lbs), and you're right....we don't hold as much as the big guys. 

Maybe try the VHC (I ordered mine off of Amazon.com by the case).....she won't have to increase the number of cartons she takes in, but it will really up her calories.

http://www.amazon.com/Boost-Lactose-Free-Vanilla-Brikpaks/dp/B007W7RELW

p

robswife87's picture
robswife87
Posts: 178
Joined: Mar 2013

Along with using Ensure Plus I added a 1.5oz cup of Benecalorie to Rob's. 

The doctors wanted 2500-3000 calories a day. Very hard to do. But the benecalorie is 330 calories in the little tiny cup. I also got real good at certain concoctions that some of his feedings would be around 1200 each.

Protien powders, Hemp oil, carnation instant breakfasts, added water or milk to keep thin enough to go through tube.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Benecalorie-1-5-oz-Cups-24-Case-/370625281117?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564afcfc5d

 

Shop around you can get this at drugstore.com also and sometimes new customers get a discount.

Sandy

louiethetzu
Posts: 17
Joined: Oct 2013

Hi Phranne51, did you have to undergo swallowing therapy to start eating again? My fiance was diagnosed with stage iv nasopharyngeal carcinoma in June and he received chemotherapy and radiation for two months. He lost the ability to eat very quickly and so he had to get a peg tube. He stopped eating at the end of July and he is yet to start eating again...he starts therapy next week but he is very worried how effective therapy will be and how soon he will be able to eat again. He's starting to crave food and its driving him crazy. How was it when you started eating again? Did it take long? 

phrannie51's picture
phrannie51
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mar 2012

I quit swallowing all nutrition on July 3rd 2012.....tho I did sip on L-glutamine everyday to keep my swallower going (I was very scared of losing it)....I had my last radiation in June, and my last chem the end of August.

I think I finally started eating soup about mid October.....not a whole lot....like a can would last me all day, and I'd just keep going back to it and warming it up. 

I'm over a year out, now....and I'm still a big soup eater....it's the easiest thing I can find.

p

phrannie51's picture
phrannie51
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mar 2012

...and another drink that you mix with milk is ScandiShakes.....it's 580 calories apiece.  I got them at Amazon.com, too....but I just found them a whole lot cheaper than Amazon at another place on the net...FamilyOTC.com

http://www.familyotc.com/Scandishake-s/2784.htm?click=5436 

p

 

hwt's picture
hwt
Posts: 1935
Joined: Jun 2012

If memory serves me right, I did 6 a day. I think I had 1 1/2 bottles four times a day. Even with that, I lost 65 pounds but was overweight to start.

Candi

J.R. and June's picture
J.R. and June
Posts: 60
Joined: Aug 2013

I just ordered the Boost VHC from Amazon and it will be delivered to her house. I am amazed that the Doctor is not checing into these types of things and counseling her.

ratface's picture
ratface
Posts: 1248
Joined: Aug 2009

with the on staff hospital nutritionist which should have been on the visit list prior to starting treatment. Shame on your doctor. Secondly, many insurance companies pay for this, even to the point of a specialized company that will deliver to your front door by the case.  The nutritionist will have contact information for you. If your insurance company does not cover this many times free cases are available from past cancer patients or the nursing staff. Don't be shy about asking. 

J.R. and June's picture
J.R. and June
Posts: 60
Joined: Aug 2013

My mom lives in a super small town and unfortunately I live 2 hours away, so I am trying to consult her and provide her with everything from afar.

I am sure that they do have a nutritionist and am also shocked that the only thing the doctor keeps telling her is not to lose too much weight, but he doesn't educate her about the nutritional aspect. I will tell her to request a visit with the nutritionist. Thanks again.

J.R. and June's picture
J.R. and June
Posts: 60
Joined: Aug 2013

My mom lives in a super small town and unfortunately I live 2 hours away, so I am trying to consult her and provide her with everything from afar.

I am sure that they do have a nutritionist and am also shocked that the only thing the doctor keeps telling her is not to lose too much weight, but he doesn't educate her about the nutritional aspect. I will tell her to request a visit with the nutritionist. Thanks again.

Purplemountain
Posts: 105
Joined: Oct 2013

Hi P,

Does it has a thick consistancy when mix?

PM

phrannie51's picture
phrannie51
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mar 2012

is about the same as Carnation instant breakfast.  I added more milk than they call for (8 oz)....just because a little thinner went down easier for me.  These little buggers taste good, too....WAY different than Ensure or Boost.  I always added milk to the VHC, too....I was an impatient tube feeder, and feeding faster didn't make me sick, so I took advantage of that. 

p

donfoo's picture
donfoo
Posts: 1239
Joined: Dec 2012

Hey all,

You all know and love me right? 

I'm all in for the Boost, Ensure type products as they at least sprinke in enough vitamins and minerals to round out the daily requirements. Some of the other ones like scandishake are nothing but carbs and oil. Read the ingredients: Maltodextrin and partially hydrogenated coconut oil, sugar and corn syrup???. EEK! REally?? Do you really want to push that down the tube as your "lifesaving" nutrition? If nothing else, buy a sack of maltodextrine for dirt cheap and a gallon of corn oil and make it yourself. At least you will visually see what you are feeding your loved one. I, for one, would not feed that to the rats out back. Sorry, you know I love you P, not picking on you personally.

READ the ingredients in boost: water, sugar, corn syrup. 1,2,3. Really, honestly - you really want to feed that to yourself or a loved one? Please, there are far better options. I get very frustrated with the can pushers here, second to the dope pushers on the corner.

Here is a example product that is far better in terms of supplying plenty of calories, a nice blend of proteins and good carbohydrates, no sugar, and plenty of vitamins and minerals. This is just one of many excellent products that do offer real nutrition beyond just empty calories.

1640 calores

340 grams carbhydrates

74 grams protein

25 vitamins and minerals.

http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products/serious-mass-p-241.html

As to the registered nutritionists - Both of the ones I encountered were worthless. All they did was pull out that stupid chart with weight and level of activity and say you should have x calories a day. Utterly worthless.

Please make at least informed decisions. The choice is yours folks. 

Sorry for the cranky post today, just get really tired of the can pushing. 

 

phrannie51's picture
phrannie51
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mar 2012

The difference between you and I during treatment is....you were an energetic eater, and I was a lazy one.  I simply didn't have the "want" to get up and do more than open a carton, and pour it down when it was time to eat....and I didn't want to have to clean up after either....tossing said can into the garbage was a snap.  Washing the blender and all it's parts would have made me question how hungry I really was and I probably would only had one of the home made shakes once a day at best.  By the time I was in the 4th and 5th months of treatment my interest in even opening the carton was almost nil.

For sure you ate healthier than most of us during treatment....that is something I've never questioned.  As for the Scandishakes....I only drank one small box of those during treatment.....I hated having to mix them....LOL.

p

J.R. and June's picture
J.R. and June
Posts: 60
Joined: Aug 2013

Yes, Phrannie I agree with you - This is one of the reason why I got the boost VHC and not the Scandishakes. I started out with a high quality protein mix from GNC and took my mom the magic bullett, bananas, etc. Well, she informed me that the it was making her feel sick to her stomach, etc.... She liked the taste of the Boost and went with that. Therefore, if she likes the Boost, I thought I would get the highest calorie they make. Also, she is starting to sleep a lot and I am not sure that she would be up to the mixing.

 

Otherwise, I do agree with the healthier route (and I will try it again). Just trying to try all kinds of options until I find something that sticks. It makes it tough living so far away.

 

Thanks again for all of the help and suggestions.

 

 

J.R. and June's picture
J.R. and June
Posts: 60
Joined: Aug 2013

Yes, Phrannie I agree with you - This is one of the reason why I got the boost VHC and not the Scandishakes. I started out with a high quality protein mix from GNC and took my mom the magic bullett, bananas, etc. Well, she informed me that the it was making her feel sick to her stomach, etc.... She liked the taste of the Boost and went with that. Therefore, if she likes the Boost, I thought I would get the highest calorie they make. Also, she is starting to sleep a lot and I am not sure that she would be up to the mixing.

 

Otherwise, I do agree with the healthier route (and I will try it again). Just trying to try all kinds of options until I find something that sticks. It makes it tough living so far away.

 

Thanks again for all of the help and suggestions.

 

 

donfoo's picture
donfoo
Posts: 1239
Joined: Dec 2012

I understand lots of folks do not like to mix stuff. Just look down the grocery aisle and see all the premixed beverages and bottled water. But we are discussing essential, critical, and life sustaining health here.

Just to clear up the idea of making a mess when whipping up a powder drink. All you have to do is get one of the plastic shakers that have a screw on top. You take a couple scoops of powder and put in shaker, pour in milk or water, add a handful of ice cubes. Screw on top and shake for 15 seconds and you are done. The ice cubes do a great job of mixing the drink.

Yes, it takes 30 seconds more than popping a can and yes you do have to rinse out the cup but that is about it. Some say takes too long. Ok, make it 15 seconds then shake on the way out the door to the car. Plus, mixing your own allows you to adjust the viscosity and also the liquid. You can replace the milk with water, or half and half or any other juice or whatever that might be more comforting. But like "P" and her milk thing it was always the go to for me too. When the throat was buring, milk always offered the most comfort. 

Hard to make it much easier but it offers far superior nutrition.

Finally, of course, if one can not get a healthy power drink mixed that works and the cans do work, then by all and every means do whatever is required to get calories in and keep the weight loss at a minimum. Even if you take a big spoon to the lard tub and swallow that stuff. Saturated fat. umm, umm good. I hear you a decent discount by booking your heart transplant operation in advance. LOL 

Stay well, eat well, drink plenty, and don't forget the narcos.

J.R. and June's picture
J.R. and June
Posts: 60
Joined: Aug 2013

I understand your point. For me, it was mainly the fact that I had given her some protein powder before and she tried it for a week and informed me that it was pretty harsh on her stomach. So, she reverted back to the regular Boost. Perhaps, I should try a different brand and maybe only put 1/2 of a scoop instead of a whole scoop. She is finished with treatments on 29th, so I am hoping her mouth does not take too long to heal and she can get back to eating normally.

 

-Robin

TracyLynn72's picture
TracyLynn72
Posts: 708
Joined: May 2013

had Nutren 2.0 sent right to my house.  I had several cases delivered and was told to use 4 a day.  It upset my stomach some and I had to cut down to 3 a day when I was exclusively using my PEG.  I was able to maintain my weight until I could eat by mouth again.  I'd have her ask about Nutren.  It's already measured/mixed and just pours in the tube :)

MarineE5
Posts: 754
Joined: Dec 2005

Hello Robin,

Just a quick note, the easiest way to figure out how many calories your Mom should take in is this. Figure out the weight that she needs to remain at. You mentioned she is currently 125lbs. Mulitply that weight by 12  and that would be the daily calorie intake to maintain that weight (125lbs X 12=1,500 calories). So she really needs to double her intake of the boost now.

My Best to Both of You and Everyone Here

J.R. and June's picture
J.R. and June
Posts: 60
Joined: Aug 2013

I have never seen that forumla before. Very nice!

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