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Rectal bleeding, a d tears

Samsungtech1
Posts: 350
Joined: Jan 2011

Just had one of the worse bowel movements of my life. Felt like something ripped inside me. Blood was fairly flowing. Looked up on web and they were saying that about three years after radiation you get a ripped anus. Why don't they tell you about this? I am taking percocet for this one as it really hurts. Looked up on web and they said after three years, if you went through radiation good chance that you would experience painful. Bowel movements and bleeding.
I think this is really bad. It has just come up and now I have lost all energy. Has anyone else experienced tnis?

Mile

ralph.townsend1's picture
ralph.townsend1
Posts: 354
Joined: Feb 2012

Sorry Mike,Yes, I had radiation treatment in August 2009, and in April 2012 had the worst bowel movement with Blood flowing, pain and it's hard to explain. Went to my primary doctor and Test found I had Radiation Proctitis associated from prostate cancer and VA gave me 60% for bowel dysfunction and nerve damage. MD Anderson cancer doctor's said that it will happen every once in while. Since 2009 It's has happen 4-5 times, and can't wait until the next time. With the nerve damage, I have to be careful about getting to far from the bathroom at morning. Don't fart around with it.

Ralph

cchqnetman's picture
cchqnetman
Posts: 97
Joined: Sep 2012

Mike & Ralph,
I was considering Brachythearapy for my PC. What kind of radiation did you have???

Thanks!!

David

Samsungtech1
Posts: 350
Joined: Jan 2011

If you search radiation treatment it says that broad sprectum radiation will come back around three years. Not sure what it is from. No one has ever said a word about this. On the web it seems to be common knowledge.
I had RP nothing was saved. Cancer had spread to bladder. Got 37 treatments to bladder area and now have a really painful, and bloody anus. What shocked me is the fact that people are talking about this like it was common knowledge. Anyone out there with radiation theraphy suffering frommthis?

Mike

Samsungtech1
Posts: 350
Joined: Jan 2011

It was called broad spectrum radiation. Not like cyberknife. If you are going for treatment i would recommend cyberknife. I had rp followed by 37 treatments of radiation then had 24 treatments of radiosurgery, cyberknife. This was for lungs. Not sure if I can get radiosurgery again. Not sure how much radiation you can get. Just had two moles cut off me, one bleeding. Looks like more surgery there. I think that eventually you just get tired of this. Not sure, but will find out. Between melanoma and metastic prostate cancer I just do not seem able to get past one thing without another coming up.

Mike

ralph.townsend1's picture
ralph.townsend1
Posts: 354
Joined: Feb 2012

David, it was Proton.

Ralph

Samsungtech1
Posts: 350
Joined: Jan 2011

Ralph,
Worry about you. Hope all is as wellas it can be. Hang tough bro. Can hardly wait unril next painful trip. Next rime I will take my percocet. See how that works.

Hope you are doing ok. Getting ready to head to California. Figure on spending three weeks driving up the coast just to make sure I did not drop anything the last couple of times I hitched up the coast.

Take care,

Mike

ralph.townsend1's picture
ralph.townsend1
Posts: 354
Joined: Feb 2012

Mike, how are you doing? I have been sick for about 5 weeks from bronchitis and fevers. My body is have problems healing because of the the effect of the Zytiga cancer medicine. Or should a say the primary doctor in Dallas said that was the cause and the MDACC doctor's say NO. I think the Zytiga is the cause!!! Since my Monster is come back, I think my day's with Zytiga is soon to end.

Mike you be strong too, and keep the fight up. They did not get us in the jungle's and there not going to get us here either.

Samsungtech1
Posts: 350
Joined: Jan 2011

Ralph,
All is well. Been sick as well. Not sure what it is. Running out of energy. See Onc Friday. Have other issues, but doing extensive remodeling on house so that has me tied up. Hoping to have house done by end of year. Getting new siding and roof, flat roof. All good.

Mike

caseyh
Posts: 63
Joined: May 2002

Mike,

Ask your doctor to prescribe Sucralfate, 1 GM, 3 Times daily. It was prescribed for me by Dr. Myers after a colonoscopy revealed that my lower colon was a bloody mess as a result of salvage radiation. Dr. Datolli also prescribes the drug for his patients for preventive purposes at the start of radiation treatments. After my next colonoscopy, I asked the doctor how the scarring looked. He said there was no sign that it had ever existed.

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 1617
Joined: Nov 2010

I had salvage radiotherapy in 2006 (68Gy 37 fractions). I also experienced colon complications due to the radiation, but I never experienced pain.
During and after the treatment I was given medication (pills) and sort of top-cream to apply in the skin at the areas where supposedly the rays enter, and another type of cream to be “inserted” in my anus.

After the treatment I did not have any case of bleeding but got a loss sensation (about 50% less) when passing stool. One year latter a follow up colonoscopy did not reveal anything but in 2011 I saw blood in the stool which took me to a consultation with various specialists. The answer pointed to colitis, a side effect from the radiotherapy.

This year 2012 I had two positive Occult Blood Tests and experienced again bleeding. A colonoscopy revealed Diverticulosis at several places of the colon. The gastroenterologist commented as been a cause from weaken colon walls most probably as a late effect from the radiotherapy. This explains the lost sensation when passing stool too.
Fortunately I never experienced incontinence in both "fields", stool and urine.

Hope the fellas here manage to get better with the problems affecting them.

Best to all.

VGama

Samsungtech1
Posts: 350
Joined: Jan 2011

Been busy and have neglected comm. I hope all is well with you. Not sure what you celebrate, but Merry Christmas, or happy Hannukah. Have a great new year. Hoping to see you around May.

Take care,

Mike

ralph.townsend1's picture
ralph.townsend1
Posts: 354
Joined: Feb 2012

Merry Christmas, and God Bless America!!!

AndyC5
Posts: 3
Joined: Dec 2012

Hi All, hope everyone is feeling better.  I just joined this site. Im receiving IGRT, about a 3rd of way into my treatment of 80 Grys, and having proctitis, rectal bleeding, most painful bowel movements ever. Feels like something is torn in there. Is this unusual ? Having this problem so early? It makes me think I will have serious late onset problems. I am ready to stop treatment. Dr just wants to treat it with steroid creams for now, but my biggest worry is not now, but later if I continue this treatemtn. What I would do if i stop this, I dont know. Any help or advice appreciate much. Andy

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 1617
Joined: Nov 2010

Andy

Not everyone experiences equally from the same treatment. Pain is the effect most frequent in RT however it usually is not extreme. In my case I felt burning sensations accompanied of mild pain when peeing but nothing in my stool, while on treatment.

Your radiologist may be judging the problem reasonably, however, extreme pain, bleeding, etc., is not common to occur while on IGRT treatments for prostate cancer. It is more common to occur once the treatment is finished. In the past, treatments with older equipments did cause nasty side effects but not at present days. In this link they comment the following from the American Cancer Society;

“….During and after radiation treatment for prostate cancer, there may be diarrhea and/or rectal pain, irritable bowels, incontinence of feces and, sometimes, bloody stools. According to the ACS, this is more common with older forms of external beam radiation, where the source of radiation is placed outside the body. Long-term bowel symptoms are not common in the newer, more focused forms of external radiation therapy, or the different forms of internal radiation therapy. In most cases, these symptoms stop when treatment ends, states the ACS.”

http://www.livestrong.com/article/146568-prostate-cancer-radiation-side-effects/

Here is a site from Mayoclinic describing well about the effects from radiation done with newer methods/facilities;

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/external-beam-radiation-for-prostate-cancer/MY01632/DSECTION=risks

In extreme cases of treatment complications, pain may be a cause from ulcerative colitis Cry  that may already be existent and the radiation affects them extremely. In fact patients with cases of ulcerative colitis are not recommended for radiation because it may cause fistulas. Unfortunately the majority of doctors do not test for that condition in advance, before recommending RT. They may ask the patient for past experiences but if one doesn’t know it most probably will reply negatively at the time of inquire.

My lay opinion is that you should stop the treatment and try to find the cause firstly. Fistulas are far more complicated to treat than prostate cancer. You need to discuss with your doctor and probably get a second opinion from another specialist.

You can continue the treatment latter if ulcerative colitises are none existent. The body will sustain the continuing protocol (the same isodose planning) because the absorbed radiation by the tissues is not yet at their limit. Though, you would need to find a radiologist with experience in treating such cases.

For details on fistulas, google the following: “Fistulas from radiotherapy for prostate cancer”

I hope the problem subsides and that you manage to continue the treatment. However, be careful and get a satisfying answer from a specialist firstly.

Best wishes,

VGama  Wink

AndyC5
Posts: 3
Joined: Dec 2012

Appriciate the reply, I will be careful and try to remember to report back how things go. Andy

JFredB
Posts: 5
Joined: Oct 2012

I want to thank you especially VascodaGama and all the others for the continuing dialog.  It has really helped me greatly over the past year. I should look and comment on the discussion board more often than every couple of months.

Today it has been one year since my radical prostectomy (DaVinci). They found cancer penetration into the margin and I opted for radiation (38 days) which I finished early December '12  My last PSA was <0.1 so I'm good at this point; hopefully for a long time.

Thankfully, I have had very little pain or discomfort even from day one and no noticable effect from the radiation except tiredness and continued ED. The biggest problem has been the ED and the adjustment to that. I do have some urine leakage if I'm not careful of how much coffee or liquids I drink before I go somewhere.

I'm glad it was caught early enough and that I had it surgically removed because it wasn't until the biopsy that they saw that it had gotten into the capsule. I am 59 now and would have been sad if I had done just the radiation and only later find it would not be enough.

Thanks again for you advice and comments.

Fred

 

 

 

dw055
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 2012

Andy,

Are things better? You are having almost exactly the same response I have to IMRT. What machine you on, just curious. Im getting 81 grays total, decided to stop half way through because of fear, like you, of what it will mean for my future if its this bad now. Long story short, my Dr. adjusted the beam away from rectal more, and Im on steroid suppositories with liticane. Its helping some, but mostly he was able to put my fears at ease, and told me this will clear up after treatment stops. There is always concern about later, like years later, but I hope to offset that with healthy living. The more accurate machines are supposed to limit damage. Time will tell. take care,   David

dw055
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 2012

Reporting back in case someone actually reads this stuff. I had extreme bowel movement pain starting mid-way through 45 treatments. Clenched fist kind of pain. Some relief after beam/dosage adjust, then more pain during last 15 'boost' treatments that target just the prostate (vs seminal ves.) Steroid suppositories, soft diet, stool softeners only helped a little. Fasting helped, but its not smart during cancer treatment.. Well, 8 days after treatments ended, I had my first 'normal' bowel movement without pain, and its been 3 good days. So in my case, once the source of irritation stopped (radiation) things started to heal up. Still some weak stream, on Flomax for that, hopefully it will heal up also with time. Hope this helps someone.

--update / edit. I spoke too soon. The pain during bowel movements comes and goes. seems related to what i eat and how large/hard the stool is. So apparently, the lining is still sensitive and easily damaged/irritated. I go several days ok, then back to pain until it heals up. To get it to heal is a soft diet and lots of water. Im 3 weeks out from treatment. Also, I am alternating flowmax and a Pygeum supplement because I dont like prescription drug dependence. Flowmax about every 3 or 4 days, Pygeum the rest of the time - this controls weak stream/night time frequency for me.

--update 2
1 month out from radiation, Im pretty much back to normal bowel function. I also added meat to my previous vegan-ish diet, which is helping me heal I think. Im completely off flowmax, just using the Pygeum/SwPameto/Nettle supplement now.

 

 

 

Trew
Posts: 892
Joined: Jan 2010

this week I am 3 years since I finished radiation treatment.

Recently I have had some rectal bleeding- mild- and I just assumed it was from hemrroids.  And there was some discomfort at the opening.  I have been applying A&D ointment to see if I could get some releif and it helped but I never associated it with radiation treatment.  Bummer.

Something new to think about. 

Samsungtech1
Posts: 350
Joined: Jan 2011

I have seen somewhere on the web that this can not be treated with laser.  They say do not do this.  I am unsure about this.  My gynecologist says a balm and then check it out.  Anyhow I ended up with him because I have never had a colonospohy.  Two of my best friends died from this.  Not sure why.  Both Viet Nam vets, but there was blockage in their colon.  They jammed it and then my last friend was sent home with his wife.  They were sitting on their living room rug and he told her how the doctor jammed the probe. Anyhow he started throwing up blood and was dead bymthe time he got to hospital.  

Not sure exactly what goes on because have never had a colnostophy.  Going to gastro on 31st who is going to try and convince me to do this.  This just seems un natural to me.  I do not think I am homophobic, but why would you want to do this?  I already have metastic prostate cancer, and ischemic heart disease, plus melanoma, so who cares if it is in my colon? Seems like the odds are ok as long as you are OK.  I only have one brother left.  Losing the last two to colonostophy seems bizarre.  Think I will just slide on this one.

Mike

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 1617
Joined: Nov 2010

Mike

You have and are a fighter and now you may be in need of some courage to pass this other chapter on your journey. The colonoscopy will not kill you. The results will help you in diagnosing your symptoms. Just get an experienced practitioner in whom you trust.

 

Best wishes for the test and good results.

 

Peace to you

VG

ralph.townsend1's picture
ralph.townsend1
Posts: 354
Joined: Feb 2012

Mike

   Life is what we give to it and I know you will give your best!

 

God Bless

 

Ralph

ralph.townsend1's picture
ralph.townsend1
Posts: 354
Joined: Feb 2012

Mike

   Life is what we give to it and I know you will give your best!

 

God Bless

 

Ralph

dw055
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 2012

I found out if I use a low residue diet, rectal pain during bowel movements from radiation proctitis are not as bad. Just google 'low residue diet' 

Samsungtech1
Posts: 350
Joined: Jan 2011

Not sure how onedescribes it, but my wife hadcolonostophtyas and she said do not do it. Mi thought about it and decided to pass on it.  I have metasticprostate cancerand ischemic heart disease and melanoma.  If I do have colon cancer and it has not shown up in the scans I have had then , my bad, but one way or the other my life is running out.  I feel that at age 66 it has been good.  I am having several other problems now so it is like throwing water on to a grease fire. 

PI believe we all have our own path to follow.  I hope everyone can get through their trials without too much trouble.  I hate to see young men with this problem.  Seems unfair to me.  No one gets a pass in life, but old guys are OK.  We had our shot.  Young guys with this just sucks.

Mike

dw055
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 2012

Hang in there Mike, there is always hope or some new thing that might come along to help us all out, regardless of our stage or condition. I agree getting this young sucks, it started at 47 for me.. 

I wanted to mention I found something that helps when the rectal bleeding occurs (mine starts up about every 4 or 5 weeks it seems)  Its called Henry's Internal Cleanse. It sounds harsh and I was reluctant to try it, but its not. Its gentle, works like a stool softener, makes things soft, amaller, lubricated and easy to pass. But unlike stool softeners, its all natural and doesnt have negative effects on your system.  Anyway, wanted to pass this on, in case it helps someone. The other things mentioned earlier in this thread, that Dr. Datoli uses (Sucraflate?) sounds like a good option too, which I may ask my dr about if and when things get bad.

Retired 12
Posts: 11
Joined: Feb 2013

I had radiation treatments and like Mike about 2-3 years the same issue cropped up. My GI Doctor gave me a picture and it was a radiation burn in the rectum. He prescribed a suppository name Canasa and everthing improved in a short amount of time. I keep these on hand.

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