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Nagalase testing may replace CEA testing, it is for me FULL TEXT article below

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

Dear colorectal friends,

this is a great read.

i just found this good full text from a pubmed citation.

its for us colorectals, it read very well.

http://www.revealtherapies.com/docs/Yamamoto,%20Immunotherapy%20of%20metastatic%20colorectal%20Can%20Imm%20Imm%202008.pdf

i think the future has just arrived for me, would be interested in a discussion of this article and nagalase testing strategies.

sell your shares in the ct scanning business. all those secondary cancers we will miss out on.

lots and lots of implications, how long till this testing arrives for you.

hugs,
pete

ps this is a post not about my experience with gcmaf or nagalase its more focused on just bringing the technical information to the community for discussion.

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 970
Joined: Oct 2010

Thanks, Pete. I really hope that these developments with GcMAF and nagalase are so powerful. New tools are seldom so revolutionary that they sweep everything into the dustbin overnight, but are rather usually fractional improvements, whether 1/5 or 4/5, perhaps expand the zone of curability, for those not cured, extend NED by months or years, simplify treatments for many.

In the case of my wife's immunological treatment pre-op, cimetidine+vitamin D3, even combined with other molecular neoadjuvants, only one of three areas, presumably the easist, was "cured". A second area, the primary cancer only shrank. The third major cancerous area, the cluster of periaortic lymph nodes (PALN), we don't know what immunological damage was caused pre-op since it was not seen or removed surgically in the first operation or scanned afterwards at its nadir. However the PALN's activity eventually started to runaway despite cimetidine, PSK, vitamin D, and light chemo. Just saying, about the hedging bets and double tracking plans even in the face of major progress.

This cancer stuff is an implacable beast, and we must be unrelenting until it is exterminated.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

the problem being an optomistic, i guess i see the potential.

maybe nagalase/gcmaf are a bit like all the other alt cures.

we have mainstream and then all the rest.

given we largely agree on supplements, diet and some exercise and that these are effectively neglected by most onc's at least to the extent they give people a serious health benefit and survival advantage.

so i guess its no surprise gcmaf has been around for so long, with good colorectal studies and that no one here in our snapshot of the planets biggest colorectal community has used it besides me.

it was my great doctors suggestion, i like having poineering alternative doctors attempting cures outside of the box before conventional even gets a look in.

when you write, i feel like i wrote what you said.
yes "unrelenting" what else needs to be said.

i have the most amazing pdf present for anyone wanting some seriously interesting science.
the best 80 pages you will even read.

like craig says which is so true of all our treatments, time will tell.

the nagalase protein, it looks and sounds so legitamite. but its not used. maybe since i have raised its awareness here and there around this beautiful planet a few poineers might do their levels. it would certainly be in the clinical trial i am designing in my imagination.

all stage iii who start to get the cea rise well, then i would do the nagalase alongside.

at the monthly or 6 weekly windows. it would be great to have a few sets of results to see how these.

i have put up a thankyou to the australian company hea;thscope doing the nagalase tests on my blog. now i will link this post to my blog so the managing director gets a chance to see if any stage iii would be interested in joining a free clinical trial to see how useful this techniqueu would be.

obviously some peoples ceas might be like mine hopefully spurious or a false positive.
the other set of results would be growing tumours.

with what i know now about gcmaf, thats the time to try and shut the tumour down, at the inception of its recurrance. heck for the price.

i could even see this as an alternative to adjuvant folfox here the folfox is about $26,000. the gcmaf $170 x 30 = $5100 prices in aud dollars.

its a cheaper non toxic immune based treatment versus a hardcore chemo with all its side effects.

but back to my draft dream clinical study for cea rises. i think this has huge potential.
this has not been tested.

the false positive cea issue, could be solved by nagalase testing as far as i understand, i will keep on making some investigations here.

i am doing my ct scan monday arvo.

enjoying the "cured" feeling for a few more days.

tans we are prevailing ... our bodies are stronger than we given them credit for.

hugs,
pete

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

the problem being an optomistic, i guess i see the potential.

maybe nagalase/gcmaf are a bit like all the other alt cures.

we have mainstream and then all the rest.

given we largely agree on supplements, diet and some exercise and that these are effectively neglected by most onc's at least to the extent they give people a serious health benefit and survival advantage.

so i guess its no surprise gcmaf has been around for so long, with good colorectal studies and that no one here in our snapshot of the planets biggest colorectal community has used it besides me.

it was my great doctors suggestion, i like having poineering alternative doctors attempting cures outside of the box before conventional even gets a look in.

when you write, i feel like i wrote what you said.
yes "unrelenting" what else needs to be said.

i have the most amazing pdf present for anyone wanting some seriously interesting science.
the best 80 pages you will even read.

like craig says which is so true of all our treatments, time will tell.

the nagalase protein, it looks and sounds so legitamite. but its not used. maybe since i have raised its awareness here and there around this beautiful planet a few poineers might do their levels. it would certainly be in the clinical trial i am designing in my imagination.

all stage iii who start to get the cea rise well, then i would do the nagalase alongside.

at the monthly or 6 weekly windows. it would be great to have a few sets of results to see how these.

i have put up a thankyou to the australian company hea;thscope doing the nagalase tests on my blog. now i will link this post to my blog so the managing director gets a chance to see if any stage iii would be interested in joining a free clinical trial to see how useful this techniqueu would be.

obviously some peoples ceas might be like mine hopefully spurious or a false positive.
the other set of results would be growing tumours.

with what i know now about gcmaf, thats the time to try and shut the tumour down, at the inception of its recurrance. heck for the price.

i could even see this as an alternative to adjuvant folfox here the folfox is about $26,000. the gcmaf $170 x 30 = $5100 prices in aud dollars.

its a cheaper non toxic immune based treatment versus a hardcore chemo with all its side effects.

but back to my draft dream clinical study for cea rises. i think this has huge potential.
this has not been tested.

the false positive cea issue, could be solved by nagalase testing as far as i understand, i will keep on making some investigations here.

i am doing my ct scan monday arvo.

enjoying the "cured" feeling for a few more days.

tans we are prevailing ... our bodies are stronger than we given them credit for.

hugs,
pete

steved
Posts: 836
Joined: Apr 2004

I have seen this article before butonly abstract so useful to be able to read the full study and some of teh references from it. My own interpretation would be that it is an interesting start but not one that should alter treatment at this point. The reason for this is that the trial is open (uncontrolled) of 8 patients who had cancer resections and showed no evidence of metastases on CT - the only evidence that they did have mets was a raised nagalase which remains in my mind (having looked at the other literature) an unproven marker. They then had GCMAF but it is not reported whether they had other conventional treatments as well ie post op chemoradiotherapy (it is likely they did as otehrwise it would have been reported). On follow up the eight patients did well. Scientifically claiming teh GCMAF caused them to do well is impossible.

It is however a good start and should lead to a more robust randomised trial that could prove causality and does indicate oth nagalse and GCMAF could be useful areas of further research. However, personally I would not alter my own treatment based on this preliminary research- I would not take a new chemo that had only been trialled in this way.

As for nagalase as a marker- I have had a look and I really can't find any weight of evidence that it is a reliable marker in colorectal in humans. tehre are some studies in mice correlating it to tumour burden (Yamamoto again) in mice with adifferent cancer and in humans with uterine cancer. It has never been trialled against CEA as a marker which is really the trial that would need to be done to show it is as (or more) reliable as a marker of progression and prognosis. At present my interpretation is that it may be a useful additional piece of information but should not be seen as replacing CEA (although we all know CEAs limitations).

So my interpretation is that it is useful but only preliminary research and not enough for me to cough up the £660 pounds for eight shots of GCMAF taht it costs locally.

Steve

janderson1964's picture
janderson1964
Posts: 1641
Joined: Oct 2011

In theory the test and treatment show a lot of promise to me. CEA has always been useless to me so i would love to have an accurate tumor marker test so i dont have to rely soley on scans.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

i will post my nagalase results here as a case study
one way to see how they go.
hugs,
pete

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

so its really interesting but unproven.
the story of my alt treatments, i am off to yoga.
i have taken your comments on board.

hugs,
pete

manwithnoname
Posts: 393
Joined: Jun 2012

Hi Steve, I wanted to jump in here with my 2 cents, I was very skeptical at first with this (too good 2b true) and as a marker Im still not 100% what bothers me though is why no one is really looking at this after 20 years?
especially when I found an article by J. Folkman (nobel prize winner) confirming Yamamoto's work.
Now anyone can write an article on Pubmed and claim whatever they want, but nobel prize winners generally have good insights and reputation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1502120/

This is not chemo, it's immunotherapy, which is going to be huge in the next decade, just check how much is being published on it.

janderson1964's picture
janderson1964
Posts: 1641
Joined: Oct 2011

I am going to see a doctor who is into holistic healing and i am going to get her to research the test and gcmaf. I feel from my research there is no harm as long as i am still monitoring my body with scans as well. I think the other question is can you afford it. I am fortunate enough. That i can afford the added expense.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

the money i can manage somehow, i might go to work or rob a bank.
after all they have been robbing me for years.

see the other gcmaf post and the researcher i am trying to contact.

no pointing stuffing around, whose got time to waste.

i have faith and i hope it works for you and me and all you try.

one to to try and establish its credibility is to push it hard my medical team in conventional, but i know this is doomed, largely based on the evidence based systems inability to innovate quickly. see the comments about this being around for 20 years.

how many lives lost, how much wasted resources ?

hugs,
pete

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

a really good read, another plus for gcmaf.

i hope its works for me, only one way to try.

a nobel prize i guess thats ok! he must know something.

hugs,
pete

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3402
Joined: Apr 2010

Got a noble prize as well, and all he did was get elected president. I don't think that I would stake my life on Mr. Obama simply because he's a noble prize winner, on what was good for my cancer or what wasn't. Just a thought.
Winter Marie

manwithnoname
Posts: 393
Joined: Jun 2012

Can't really compare, peace prize is one thing, J. Folkman discovered angiogenesis, and from that angiogenic inhibitors were invented that have saved lives.
Obama is a puppet. Can't think of 1 good thing he's done.
Also GcMAF seems to go ok with chemo and radiation. Don't need to give up anything....

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

This post is trying to be focus on gcmaf, not anything political, that's to controversial.
Lets just talk science and tests and support each, one day one ofthese alt will save some lives.
Think of us alt pioneers as the brave ones who will show conventional medicine the future.
Or do just accept the status quo ?
I don't, willi have breathe, I can type and keep on trying.
As always this message will self destruct in sixty seconds.
Oh that's mission impossible.
Sorry but stopped into my mind.

To each his own.
Peace, love and goodwill to all.

Hugs,pete

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

i found this link today, its got some good summaries of nagalase and gcmaf studies.
the discussion, i copied the important bit, ie using nagalase as a tumour marker below.

you can read it and decide what you will. its here for completeness. and i guess i have answered my own question. i will still do my nagalase tests over the next few months.

http://cancergrace.org/cancer-treatments/topic/gc-protein-derived-macrophage-activating-factor-gcmaf/

We extract GcMAF and supply universities, clinics and doctors. We agree with the criticism of nagalase as a marker. Dr Yamamoto claimed nagalase was the only indicator needed to measure cancerous activity, but with GcMAF we can indeed reduce nagalase to healthy levels, and then see new metastases appear.
Genuine active GcMAF (live cell lines must be used to test) does rebuild the immune system in probably over 80% of cases. It does reduce nagalase levels in the vast majority of cases, and in six months or more we can usually get nagalase down to normal levels. In early stage cancer the immune system is then usually successful in eradicating cancer, but we use scans and the normal markers to determine this, not nagalase, which is mainly useful for showing whether the participant is a responder to GcMAF. In late stages the immune system is usually overwhelmed by the cancer. But we still have about 5% success then.
A rebuilt immune system can, of course eradicate many diseases, and we have 85% responders amongst autistic children, and can eradicate the less resistant diseases like chronic herpes or chronic acne more easily.
Generally, all healthy people have GcMAF, which can be considered as a “director or the immune system;” people with chronic diseases do not. It is a natural substance.
David Noakes.

manwithnoname
Posts: 393
Joined: Jun 2012

"As results of initial validation by western blotting in relatively advanced cases and further validation including the less advanced cases by western blotting, the expression levels of the four proteins ApoA-IV, GC, RBP4, and CLEC3B were greater in cancer patients than in controls."

and;

"Thus, the results of this study show that four serum proteins, apolipoprotein A-IV, vitamin D binding protein, retinol-binding protein 4, and tetranectin are significantly decreased in patients with pancreatic cancer. It was notable that these changes were observed in some patients in whom conventional tumor markers for this malignancy were not altered."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3199071/

Vitamin D binding protein is a strange bugger, found it implicated in all kinds of things, what seems sure is we will all be hearing more about it.
For the record no one seems to fully understand the DBP-maf story, but macrophages are an important piece of the puzzle.

smokeyjoe
Posts: 1428
Joined: Feb 2011

I'm confused!!! No surprise there :) Pete where do you get the stuff you inject?? Who makes this, a lab in your country?? Who monitors what they're giving you is actually "the real deal"?? I don't intend to get into credibility of drug companies, or nutritional supplements. I'm not looking for an argument....just wondering if it's produced by a drug company, herbal supplement company...it's just that from what I understand you're injecting this product. I inject myself with Lovenox, everything comes in these little sterile bottles, needles package very sterile, bla bla bla.....how do you know this product is "safe" to inject?? ( I know I am assuming the Lovenox is manufactured under certain guidelines ) But, I'd just be concerned about hepatitis or something....sorry ...

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

So care is great, worry well not so.
Just laugh if I get hep on top of crc and malaria and still look good, well dam I could make it into Guinness Book of records for the most simultaneously held and uncurwd diseases.d

Alt doc supplied gcmaf our of Europe UK I think.

The maf yogurt is out of England or USA.
Look on eBay maf probiotics 878.

I figure yogurt making is fun, I have experience with. I will let you know how my gcmaf experiment goes.
I have not ordered the files, just the yogurt culture.

Hugs,
Pete

Ps I have no idea if the product is safe to inject, but I trust my alt doc who supplied and injected me.
At least with the first one

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

Our complexity, maybe why we arr here as we are, spoke briefly with David gcmaf EU spokesman, he soundd nice over Skype.
Said the maf yogurt from Dr Erland is no good, it's to late, I got mine coming.

Of course nagalase seems to be a good marker for me ie. Clear MRI ct. And low result.

Just will keep cea and scans going as well as nag tastings with 2 goals.
1 see how it matches cea, ct, MRI results.
2 as a measure of gcmaf effectivess, I should be able to get my levels down from .9 to .6
Hugs,
Pete
Ps this flu and cough that's kept me up most of the night can be caused indirectly by improved immune function per readings of me/CDs gcmaf forums.

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