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Votrient Side Effects

KJones1969
Posts: 158
Joined: Mar 2012

My husband started Votrient Saturday to treat Stage IV Clear Cell RCC and I wanted to see if anyone else has taken it. If so what side effects have you seen? Thanks

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Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Thanks for the response, John. One of these days, when you're golfing again, if I'm still around, we'll have to stagger round a course. We'll have moved from the grade of golfers who talk mostly about the latest football/baseball game into the ranks of those who talk exclusively about the medications they're on!

Ice, snow and rain have prevented me from playing much since getting on to Votrient. Otherwise I would probably echo your story - I've often been accused of putting people off, several fairways away, with my ringing endorsements, such as "Great golf shot!!" My dysphonia varies and I think, like yours, it may be getting a little better.

I'll be keen to hear what your nurse says about the joint pains. I'll probably ask the same question of my onc in early January. Meanwhile, after rejoicing in not having side-effects from my calcium channel blocker for hypertension, I've just started getting slight peripheral edema - a known and potentially serious s-e of Amlodipine. I'll ask my cancer nurse tomorrow if possible. So far it's just slight puffiness of my feet and a 5,000m rowing session today put it into reverse (and knocked my BP back to 108/74, with which I'm pleased) so i hope I can stay on it. Have you experienced any adverse events on BP meds? [There, we're getting plenty of material for golf round conversation already!]

Sorry to hear about your other s-es. Your having simultaneous vomiting and diarrhea won't be amusing - especially not knowing which direction to point yourself in! Like you. I'm sure my painkillers help to combat any Votrient-induced diarrhea.

You're plainly having a harder time than I am, so far at least, but I agree with you that we're getting off very lightly compared with some. Doubtless it's a consequence of being virtuous - being lawyers and all :-)

one putt
Posts: 72
Joined: Sep 2012

Tex, I spoke to my nurse about my joint pain and she said it has been a side effect in some patients. A more common side effect has been sharp spiking pain(I forgot the term she used for this) that she 's seen. It appears my simultaneous vomiting and diarrhea,thankfully, is not a side effect but some sort of bug that's going around. Unfortunately, I infected Alice, who spent the majority of Christmas day sick as a dog. I have not,for the most part, had any HBP issues. I have not been on BP meds since July,2011, 3 months prior to my diagnosis. My reading just before my mdx infusion was 118/65. My BP readings between hospital visits are usually between 110-130 over 60-80. Based on the experiences of others, I consider myself very fortunate. I will look forward to that round of golf in the future,especially being asked by other golfers if you and I learned to whisper in a sawmill.

 

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Texas_wedge
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Joined: Nov 2011

"whisper in a sawmill" - I've not heard that before and will need to salt it down for future use. 

Thanks for pursuing the joint pain question with your nurse. I'm continuing to feel it at old injury sites, including both thumbs - a nuisance for golf - and my right knee which has been bad enough lately that I sometimes find it difficult to walk - also not good for golfing. It's not bad when I  get moving but I stiffen up badly when sitting protractedly at the computer and get up like an old man - not something I like. 

Sorry to hear about the bug - could it have been a bout of food poisoning from some festive fare while out and about? I hope you're both over it now. 

I envy you your BP figures.  I'm on max dose of a calcium channel blocker for Votrient-induced elevated BPand it's started to give me mild edema on my feet which I'll monitor carefully.  I haven't had HFS so far and this seems to be a blessing with V. as against Sutent but I have just got a rather sore tail end but that might be due to doing nothing all day, lately, but sit at a computer! If getting up and about a bit more doesn't sort it I'll have to report it as a possible (unique?)  backside-effect!  Any other Votrient takers suffering this 'backside-effect'?!!

 

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CAPNMatt
Posts: 13
Joined: Jul 2012

While I was on Votrient my BP shot up to 200/120. I had to take a combination of calcium blockers and beta blockers to get it down. I had to change calcium blockers due to edema. I am finally on Norvasc and Metoprolol. 

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Texas_wedge
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Which calcium blocker were you on Capn, that gave you the edema? Has the change of blocker solved the problem? How are you doing now, generally?

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CAPNMatt
Posts: 13
Joined: Jul 2012

Norvasc, then Lisinopril, then Cardizem. I had worst edema on Norvasc 10mg. Although I am back on Norvasc, now I take 5mg twice a day, vice all at once in the morning. Now I am back to normal BP with 120/80.

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Texas_wedge
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Thanks Capn.  Was the edema limited to you feet/ankles and did it resolve completely after changing meds?

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CAPNMatt
Posts: 13
Joined: Jul 2012

Yes on both counts. 

aldiyana
Posts: 16
Joined: Aug 2012

i have just seen this reply from you...so sorry for not answering sooner...

first want to thank you for pointing my issue out...

its been a battle with this UI for months now after haveing 4 operations to get rid of it...hes finally doing better!...we are pretty sure it has nothing to do with Votrient...but more due to the catheter he had to use after his nephrectomy...but hes doing good...nerally done with his first cycle of 3 months takeing votrient...his hair all over the body has trurned grey and he his haveing high blood pressure...and just wnated to ask what everyone who is haveing this problem...which drug are u takeing for it??? so far his BP is usually around 150/105...while takeing his drug for high BP...he also is experiencing pain at the soles of his feet...anyone else have this???

 

his cough is gone!!!! thank GOD! ...and it has never returned again since on Votrient! soon going on his first check up...CT SCAN of lungs to see if the lymph nodes have decresed...but since he isnt coughing...its a good sign??? right???....

 

thank you yet again for your help =)

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angec
Posts: 669
Joined: Mar 2012

Hi Aldiyana, i just posted an update on mom with her bp issues also.  She was at one time on Metoporal (spelling?) 100 mgs at night and catapress .2 mgs 3 times a day. This seemed to finally get her pressure down but it has now dropped too low a few days ago. They now put her back on 50 mgs. of Metoporal and .1 mg of catapress 2-3x a day.  Her headaches returned so we don't know if this is enough for her. But it has been almost two months and we have yet to get her pressure figured out yet. She gets very bad migraines with some of them but when the pressure was lower they went away so they don't think it is the Votrient causing the headaches perse.  I hope it works out but they might have to give a beta and channel blocker together.  Praying for good scans for you guys as well. By the way, my moms belly pain and her bad cough and the rough time she had breathing did stop as well a week after the Votrient started.  I hope that is good news as well.  Take care and hope this helps.

Jean Chen
Posts: 1
Joined: Dec 2012

My father was diagnosed with kidney cancer of stage 1 RCC in my high school graduating summer. At that time,my family especially my mother felt all the way darkness in her life. In China, maybe this bad news meant that I could loss my dear father when he was only 45 years old and I could not get to my college as both of them needs a lot of money. But we still did not faced with the worst situation, the following two years the cancer got to the lungs one of the adrenals, and now the bones after the nephrectomy.One and half years , Sunitnib faided just goes like my guess and now I plan to start with Vortrient which may ease the crazy cancer cell. Anybody who wants to know the side effects or the effect of Sunitinib can contact Tracychen002@hotmail.com
I wish our experience wil give you courage.

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angec
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Jean, sorry to hear that your dad didnt do eight with the first treatment.  Votrient might be Bette although not sure it works on the bones. Did they offer him radiation for the bones?  Is there any hope of going into a trial for Nivolumab or MDX/BMS?  They call it by all different names. You might be able to look into where you live.  I pray well goes well and he is at a good hospital where they have alot of expertise with RCC.

 

my mom 80 started Votrient about ten days ago. Her blood pressure shot up to 200/110 and that is with already taking the meds for it before she started.  They lowered the dose to 200 and now back to 400 but it looks like that will be the max for her. They have her on norvasec 5 mgs am/pm and metoprolol and lysinipril.  Her pressure still remains high. She has water retention in ankles, headaches, leg pains, some loose stools and no appetite. A bit difference from being on homeopathy for almost a year and looking and feeling great!  Such a shame. One thing she noticed is that her sugar levels are lower and she has not needed to take her insulin some days. I have not heard of that before. We don't see the doctor until the 17th.  But her gp she has been in to see but he hasn't taken any blood tests so worried about that.  I sure hope with all of these side affects the meds prove useful to her.  

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Texas_wedge
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Ange, what's the news on how Mom is doing?  When will Dr. Motzer's input be accessible?  How are you getting on yourself?  When you have a moment, how about that photo - is Jaden too shy for you to put that pic of you with him up again - it was so sweet?

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Texas_wedge
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On another thread, Pink Sugar has just posted:

 

"I am the clinical trial you mention. I had a nephrectomy last June and started on the trial in September. The decision was a bit of a no brainer for me. I came to the conclusion that if the RCC ever comes back, I want to know I did everthing possible to prevent it. I have just had my week 16 check up and have had to stop the drug for a week due to side effects.

I started on 600mg daily for 2 months. I developed Nausae,diarrohea, sore mouth and altered taste. hand and foot redness and very sore finger tips, and my hair is growing through white, I increased to 800mg but as side effects did not reduce had to go back to 600mg. I take drugs for the blood pressure, but most of the other sympyoms have abated. The main one that still longers is diarrohea. My apetite is back, thy slaon and get my eye lashes and eyebrows dyed. I e hand foot thing has gone, my mouth is back to normal although the taste is still  not great.

Yes, I lost weight, feel the fatigue lol but what a great excuse for a cat nap! I guess I am just slower than normal...

I still work.

I would not want to influence your decision, I meet other people on the trial, (all men) and none of them have had severe side effects, in fact most of them talk about very few and quickly passing ones. The only thing we all have in common is that we all have white hair. Luckily for me, I visit the beauty therapist and get the lashes and eyebrows dyed. The rest I wuite like. 

When you are reading the incidence of side effects you must bear in mind that anything anyone reports gets noted as a possible side effect. If one person dies of a stroke, it has to go onto the statistics, even if it ended up being proven as an related event.

You get really closely monitored and no doctpr is going to allow you to keep taking a drug if it is doing you more harm than good.

However, only you can decide what is best for you. I wish you well, good luck!"

Pink sugar, you seem to be very unlucky in suffering much more severe side-effects than most people on your trial (and most people under Votrient treatment).  Do you know if the doctors know whether there is any gender difference in response to the drug?

You said that going into the trial was a no-brainer, but there is no evidence that the drug has any effect in preventing recurrence and since no other drug has been found to have, it seems very unlikely that it would.

Did your doctors suggest increasing the dose to lessen the side-effects???  It's generally thought that both efficacy and side-effects actually increase with increased dosage!  You've dropped back to 600mg.  If you keep getting bad side-effects, you should maybe drop down to 400mg. - many seem to do very well on that dose level and also shrug off most of the side-effects.  That may be worth discussing with your medical advisers.

On reporting: do you know the procedures for appraising side-effects, Statesside? (I'm in the UK).  I would think that after gathering info. on side-effects that might, or might not, be due to the drug, care would be taken to try to establish whether or not they are due to it. Most drug info sheets attempt to classify side-effects in terms of frequency of occurrence, and there are also sites which indicate whether some experiences are possibly due to the drug but where the jury is still out.  Can you (or others here) tell me how this problem is dealt with in the US,  i.e. avoiding having experiences wrongly attributed to the drug when they may have another cause?  Presumably great rigour is necessary, since it will be very much in the manufacturer's interest to try to find a different cause, to exculpate their own product.

 

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angec
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Joined: Mar 2012

Hello all, TW. I am sorry for the lack of update. It is not for the sake of trying. I have posted lenghty replies only to get lost in error land. Most times i cannot even get on. Well, we have had the flu for two weeks now so there went my ambition to keep trying to post.

 

Mom is doing a little better with the pressure. They added a 5 mg pill in the am and pm an upped one of the two others she takes in the morning. Leaving out the names now because i am tired and can't remembr off hand. But it is the one that CaptMike mentioned with the N.  She has swelling ankles on and off, fatigue, lack of appteitie or taste, voice goes in and out.  But the symptoms are tolerable and come and go, they are not present all the time.  She does have to figure out her pressure though as it is still a bit too high, but not as bad as before. She see her oncologist for the first time on Thursday but has been phoning him regularly when issus come up. And he is speaking with Dr. M from sloans i believe.  Her belly pain has gone away and the cough she had also slightly has gone away and she says her breathing is better a bit. We have to check into the bp meds she has taken for a few years, we found out it causes the breathing issues as she has been out of breath since before the rcc and her heart is fine. The lysinipol is the one that causes issues and i know i don't have the name right.  If anyone is on it and has breathing issues, dizziness etc, it can be the reason as a good friend was on it she said she suffered like mom and they changed it and in two week was feeling better.  But check with the doctor on that.

No pic yet.   I guess i have a phobia about putting pics up.  But i will work on it. LOL!

 

TW, i always enjoy your posts and would not like it very much if you shyed away! You are a very intelligent man, a lawyer, and you say things matter of factly but it doesn't mean you are insulting anyone.  Sometimes when peope have bad days or are not themselves they can see things differently, but i appreciate all you do and your posts are very valuable to us so please, keep them coming.  I posted on your bog as well.

For everyone one out there fighting the good fight, keep on going, be positive and strong and let's make each day a good one.  Don't forget to smile and remember that we are here for each other.  Prayers for everyone and big hugs!  xxoo

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Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

So annoying that when talking about disease 'progress' is good but 'progression' is bad!  Thanks for the update on Mom - it sounds to me as if she will get good results and the side-effects will be manageable, with care, and it sounds as though she is geeting the level of care she needs.  If there's a useful working relationship beteen her front line doctor and Dr. Motzer that's great.  You're always there for her but I guess you'll not be physically with her with the 'flu'.  Sorry to hear that you, Henry and Jaden are all down with it - please say hi to everyone for me and tell them I hope  all are in better health soon.  Make sure you don't rush your fences in trying to get fully back to things - I've seen the cost all too painfully (we've discussed ME/PVFS and fibro in the past).

I suppose there will be a lot of viruses doing the rounds at present.  The hospitals I will be in, in the next couple of weeks, have both had several wards closed due to norovirus - the 'winter vomiting virus' - not what one fancies on top of cancer!  I called to confirm that my golf Winter League was on this morning and not affected by snow and was told 'yes, although it's raining'.  It's about a forty minute drive there; I got delayed by a heavy nose-bleed and called when part way there to say I would be a little late.  The organiser told me that since we'd spoken the snow had come on and the whole course was white and unplayable and I might as well head back home, as I did. I'm looking out of the window now and it's started here.  We're told to expect it will get sharply colder in the next few days and may be about -10C inland tonight with consequent dangers on icy roads.  Having never needed to visit doctors or hospitals until recently, I'm suddenly discovering the possible real problems when one needs to!  I hope your Family isn't too affected in that way.

Your Mom and I seem to be having very similar responses to Votrient, although I'm presently spared the fatigue and loss of appetite and taste and also the edema due to BP med is only slight and varies, like hers.  She strikes me as very courageous and I so hope she continues to improve. Do you think she might need an appetite stimulant at some stage? However,  if her sense of taste recovers maybe that will solve that problem.  I was delighted to hear her cough is improving and her that her breathing can be improved by a change of BP meds - that seems to be a bit of an art and getting the meds right can be very helpful.

The point about your Mom's sugar levels is interesting and is, perhaps, worthy of further enquiry? With that extra dimension of diabetes, careful management is obviously necessary but it's good to hear that the change is in the right direction at the moment.

I hope you'll all take due care in getting over the 'flu' and that you'll eventually get brave enough to put up a nice family pic for us!

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angec
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TW  would hate to say that a nose bleed is good, but in this case it was. It saved you a trip on a cold snowy day. How are you doing now? Did you find out if your plateletts are lower? Mom's are a litle lower than the lowest on her tests. The doctor said her blood work was fine which surprised me. He also said her first check up was good but to see if she can get a handle on the  pressure so she can take at least 600 mgs.  He said her chest seems to sound better than the last visit and she is coughing less and able to get around more.  I can only hope and pray the meds are wworking.  She has been getting nose bleeds but light though daily, water retention in feet, no taste in food though she does have an appetite but stops eating because the food tastes like metal.  She has some fatigue and at times headaches and daily lose stools on and off. Immodium ad has helped her today.  Her eyes seem to bother her and she does have some swelling there too. Her pressure stays up a bit but am not sure if it is the wrist cuff so i ordered the arm one for her. At the doctors office her presssure was 126/78 which was great, at home it is about 165/88 so don't know if it is right.  Over all she says she is ok, although i dont' like the way she looks since she is on the meds.   Her scan will be in March sometime. When do you get yours?  I hope you are doing ok. Love to all!  PS i hate the new boards, wasting alot of time doing nothing...

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Texas_wedge
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Can't agree more with you about the boards, Ange.  Last night I gave up after a while - couldn't get on at all.  I think there was probably a bout of unannounced maintenance work going on.  For me this morning, though, with only 7 members online (you'll all be asleep in the US?) it's working fine.

I have a CT with contrast in two days time, then a physio appt next morning; following week bloods at GP and on Friday (Feb 1) will see Angela, my onc, and get the scan results and the bottom line on what's happening.

I'm glad to hear how well your Mom is doing - she really does have what it takes, doesn't she! I think you're right about the home monitor, given the excellent measure at the doc's office and I'll be interested to learn what figures she gets with the arm cuff monitor.

As regards the food, tell her to try using plastic cutlery - I read recently that, as against normal metal cutlery, it helps to reduce that metallic taste in the mouth.   Must be worth a try?

Not wanting to worry her, or you, but I'm a little concerned about her eyes.  There is an unpublicised adverse effect with Votrient that merits further enquiry.  Rather than bother you with details, may I suggest that you get Robert Motzer's input on the matter?  Can you tell me a little more about the way in which her eyes are being affected and also why you say you don't like the way she looks?  I hope there's no problem and that she and I both continue to do well on Votrient.

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angec
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TW I wilto suggest themplasric cutlery and hope that works.  With her eyes it can be confusing. She had cataract surgery two years ago and at times she said she saw blurry. They gave her drops to put on and that helped for a while. Now she is seeing blurry and they want her to clean out her eyes somehow, don't know how they do it  but will do it when th cold weather dies down.  But her else's have been swollen  all around since she is on the meds, don't know if it is wrated retention or even from the new by meds.  What was the report About?  When we go to th me doctor on Friday we will see if the swollen eyes are water or not, the  I can field out questions to dr. M.  So far thouturner Doctor says she is doing ok.  while she was on on,y homeopathy foAlthea year she looked fantastic.  She ate, gained weight and you wouldn't know she was sick at all. She haa sister and more energy and go to the  myself. One month on Votrient and she looks sick, tired, losing weight no desire to do anything, swollen and just looks like all the life is draining out of her. I do pray that the meds are helping and this is all worth it. Bjust is I see a terrible difference between the homeopathic meds and the allopathic ones.  Mom also said it is a big difference in how she feels and looks.

 

i pray all goes well with your scanJust to to be clear, your scans are this week Friday but in a week from Friday you get the results?  How are you feeling! I know things are working for you, I think you can tell. And probably for mom too as her breathidal really improve.  We just need ther press pressure and wareference toon squared away.  Have you lost any weight TW?  I miss our little private chats. Please say hello to the family for me. Oh, did you get my email a few weeks back where I explained about the sacomatoid changes n the new path report from dr. M?  Also that it is still unclassified, but they believe it is RCC but that is all they have.  Her slides also tested positive for two other things but wasn't table to research it yet as I didn't get my hands on the full reports.   feel good, be good and chat soon!

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angec
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Well, mom has been on 400 mgs of votrient for about a month now.  She has had high blood pressure and they changed and added new meds for her but it remained high.  She has a severe sinus infection at the moment.  But her ankles continued to swell. She went to the doctor and since her last ECG a few weeks ago this new ekg showed a skipped beat in her heart.  Her stomach sonogran now shows a tiny blockage in her aorta which was not there 5 weeks ago on her last petscan and she had a bit of blood when she urinated with no UTI that showed up, she also now has some sort of blockage in her belly. Could be stool but not sure since she has had the runs ob and off for a while.  They changed her pressure meds and we hope it helps.  She is not feeling too good with the Votrient and they might be thinking about changing it, which i hope they don't unless we find it is not helping the growths. Mom is very depressed because she did so well all year on the homopathic meds but now since Votrient she feels very bad, not herself...  :(  Please add her in your prayers.. i will do the same for us all!  xxoo

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alice124
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Joined: Mar 2012

Ange,

I keep your mom in my prayers. And it's discouraging to hear all she's going through. Let's hope and pray they are growing pains in the Votrient fight. Perhaps it's a bumpy road start to be followed by smooth paved highway..

I know how much you believe in homeopathic meds for good reason. But do you think her mental set is accepting Votrient or has she mentally convinced herself it won't work? The mind is a strong tool that can work for and against you. Have you convinced her that you believe in Votrient? I believe that would be an absolute necessity based on how close the two of you are. I'm not trying to put my voice in something that's none of my business, but drawing for straws trying to help. . .

 Keep the faith. Think of you and your mom lots.

 

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Phoenix Rising
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Joined: Jul 2012

I am having problems with my feet.  I already had a couple of pressure points on the "baby toes" that caused pain, but since I started Votrient I have 4 to 5 new spots have appeared-- turning into corns and all are VERY painful.  Cute shoes are out of the question and I am reduced to wearing flats, gym shoes, or my leather clogs which are a little wide at the toe. If I can get my foot in a particular shoe, my toes hurt like heck when I step down.  I can't get my foot in some shoes at all.  When I mentioned this to the oncologist he said it's not the medication. 

I never had this problem before the medicine.  One night, I missed the Votrient and guess what I had in the morning... no foot pain. I took the meds later that night and what did I have the morning after that?  Foot pain.

Still a small price to pay though.

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Texas_wedge
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Yes, a small price if the drug is doing what we hope for. 

We do know that Votrient has fewer nasty side-effects than most/all other current treatments for RCC, though not for everyone - we're all different.  However, it's a very new drug and, as such, the full AE profile isn't yet fully established.  For instance, I've had an increase in  pains in joints affected by arthritis (consequent upon old sporting injuries).  After enquiry on KIDNY_ONC, I've found others have had the same experience, even though it's not mentioned in the drug leaflet.  apparently TKIs can cause arthralgia (joint pain) and myalgia (muscle pain) but it's probably not a big deal in the order of things. 

More importantly, there are really serious, though rare, side-effects that manifest in eye problems (e.g. loss of peripheral vision or blurry vision) that can presage major brain damage.  This isn't generally disclosed but probably should be for the sake of the very few patients who might come to display this response.

Phoenix, are you sure it's the Votrient that's having this effect (your evidence does seem to bear it out, though)?  Are you on any other meds that might be causing or exacerbating it?  I'll continue to avoid "cute shoes" for now - I'm in scandinavian soft slippers most of the time, or trainers, roomy, steel-capped workboots or, not often lately, golf shoes but I don't picture you in any of those.

angec's picture
angec
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Hi Alice, thanks for it all! Mom knows I fully back Votrient, i fought like heck to get it for her when the doc wanted to start with Sutent.  But i am kind of worried about it.  She also is having trouble with her eyes after reading the post by TW. But she had that before we started too so i am not sure what is happening. I am really bumbed out as I have been having my own health issues and being i have my 9 year old home schooling and he has asthma, it is hard to get to mom to comfort her. I just hope this all clears up.  If it is the Votrient then i feel this is my fault because i insisted she be on it with the hopes of it being less harmful than the others. She is really down and said she feels she won't get any better.  I am behind her all the way letting her know how others are doing on the Votrient (including John) and telling her the good responses and to keep her chin up.  It is just that her pressure won't go down even more so since they changed her pills again.  She had the body pains but she hasn't complained about it lately.  It is just a sad thing to watch and may i say i hate the C word! Thanks for everything..

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Texas_wedge
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Ange, as I think you'll have concluded, I've been very anxious about you all.  I'm relieved to gather that Mom's eye problems are not new and therefore not a contra-indication for her carrying on with the Votrient, assuming other issues don't interfere with that.  I'm less happy that her BP is not being better controlled (and my own seems to be spiralling out of control at the moment - something we'll review on Friday). 

I'm convinced that you've made the best decisions and also that you're in expert hands (although even the very best don't know enough about this complicated malaise).    A lot of people are doing very well on Votrient but we're all different and I'm sure you'll be very carefully guided by your medics as to how to proceed. 

I hope a way can be found to keep your Mom on the Votrient, if it seems to be having real benefits, by managing side-effects better and finding ways to lift her low mood. 

I have one question/suggestion right now.  There's a bit in the Hippocratic oath that translates from the Greek as 'abstaining from doing damage' - similar to the oft-quoted Latin dictum "primum non nocere"  - 'first do no harm'.   One thing that can, I believe, be safely said about homeopathy is that it will do no harm - so long as it doesn't make someone turn their back on allopathic medicine.  So my question is: have your Mom's current RCC experts told her not to take any homeopathic remedies and if so on what grounds?  I wonder whether, unless they have suggested convincing reasons for not doing so, she should go back to the homeopathic approach, IN ADDITION TO the meds she is now on.

P.S.  you won't be surprised that Mrs. Brown's Boys has been sweeping the board in awards!

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angec
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Joined: Mar 2012

I am not surprised at all that she is sweeping up the awards!  I only wish i would get that station so i can watch the shows. As it is now i am subject to watching partial shows on youtube. :(  when i watch that show all of my cares go out the window and i laugh until i hurt, a good hurt! ;)

 

Well, it seems like the PA at mom's new docs office gave us wrong information. When my sister called the doctor back to clarify the instestine blockage and the possible aorta blockage her doctor said there was none of either and was a bit surprised at the questions. It seems that the PA who first checked mom told her all of that.  I personally would not have let the PA check mom, especially when the doctor is there, this is just an office not a big medical clinic, i mean come on.  Anyhoo, there is no blockage anywhere and perhaps the doctor was just feeling some stool left over, sorry for the gross description but want to claify this.  I was under the impression this was an effect from the Votrient so it had me very concerned.

 

Her pressure is amazingly still high after taking 4 pills a day for bp.  Her leg swelling is going down since they changed meds for bp.  Her eyes seems to be down as well, maybe the anitbiotics are helping the sinus infection.  About her eyes though i am not sure. They seem to swell up all around them and she gets a headache near her temple.  Can you please elaborate on the eye issues while on Votrient, or do you have a link?  I would be interested in reading it.  Thank you.

 

I appreciate all of the concern. My sister in law is half way through her chemo treatments then she will go for a test to see if it worked. I hope and pray it did, i didn't realize she is so young, only 46 now and about 43 when she first found the uterine cancer the first time.  Sad to watch her go through this and the fear of the not knowing is very painful, which i am sure everyone on these boards go through, even the caregivers. I know i go through it.  We all have to be positive and have a fighting spirit, because we certainly are not giving up by any means.  

As Hamlet would say... "to be or not to be, that is the question."  Right TW?    LOL

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Yeah!  Go for "To be" !!

Do you know what BP meds your Mom is on?

I don't want to cause unnecessary worry but I'll dig out the info on that particular Votrient s-e and post it.

I wonder whether the Office got wires crossed and gave information relating to another patient - stranger things have happened.

Iowaguy
Posts: 2
Joined: Oct 2012

I have been on Votrient for four months since my last mets to my lung. Briefly, 53 years old, 2004 diagnosed with RCC and removal of my left kidney. In 2009 had mets to my lung with a wedge removal followed by 12 months of Sutent. 2012 two mets to the lung, radiofrequency ablations to both and now on Votrient. Oncologist says we will stay on the drug as long as we are cancer free. Next scan in March.

Minimal side effects compared to sutent. Mainly fatigue, sore feat and some manageabl GI upset. Oh, and my hair is going white. For now we are coloring it but I will probably let it go if we remain on the drug. Very hopeful the drug works, but I know the future is not if we have another mets, but when.

Good luck! 

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GSRon
Posts: 1306
Joined: Jan 2013

Hi All.. I am a newbie here... I got diagnosed with RCC last Feb, 2012... Had surgery mid March, 2012... Stage 3 - large tumor, and with invasion in to the Renal Vein.  Surgery went well, no lymph nodes removed...   All was fine until October scan showed small spots in left lung, too small to treat... yesterday spots in both lungs and are growing...  Suggested Votrient to start soon.   Hope it works... and hope I can afford it.. we will see...

FYI, on the BP drugs, I was on Metroprolol after surgery and it induced major pain in both knees.  Dr said not related, stopped taking the drug and pain went away in about a week... So this is a "new" side effect of the Metropolol.   Thought I would mention this in case this helps.

My BP was 120 / 70 two days ago with no drugs of any kind, but goes up and down... likely I will get a different BP drug when I start the Votrient...

I wish all of you well...

Ron - California

KJones1969
Posts: 158
Joined: Mar 2012

Votrient was good to my husband to start with and from what I am told a lot of people have much success with it long term. I hope it works for you and gets those lungs cleared of spots soon. He also had very little side effects on it. The worst was being tired and that is awesome compared to a lot of other drugs.

Keep us informed of how it works for you and I'll keep you in my prayers.

Karen

2/18/12-DX with Stage IV RCC that had Metastacized to his Lungs

3/15/12- Husband had left radical nephroectomy

5/3/12- Started Votrient

8/5/12- Scans showed a reduction in size of lung nodules

10/19/12-Scans showed reduction in lung nodules had doubled in size and he had new spots as well

10/27/12-Started on Afinitor (he had his worst side effects on this)

1/10/13-Hospitalized due to Malignant Pleural Effusion. Came off of Afinitor and 2 spots on his righ lung had doubled in size.

1/19/13-Started Inlyta (he goes back to the doctor this week for blood work but won't have scans for at least another month, the only side effect he has had is extremely tired. Let's hope it stays that way).

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Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

First, I wish the best of luck to Ron and Karen's Husband. I was interested to hear about the knee pain you suffered Ron.  I've had knee and thumb joint pains increased by treatment, I believe.  However, whether that has been caused by Votrient or by the BP med I was on (Amlodipine) I'm unsure.  Your BP sounds perfect now, but if the Votrient works for you I think you're pretty well certain to need one or more BP meds again.

Jeff, I got this scan report yesterday:

CT Thorax & abdo & pelvis with contrast

CHEST:  The lungs are clear.  No mediastinal, hilar or axillary lymphadenopathy.  Normal bony appearances.

ABDOMEN AND PELVIS:  Compared with the previous CT and PET CT scans of Septembe 2012, there remains an abnormality present in relation to the right anterolateral abdominal wall in keeping with the known FDG avid metastasis.  This measures approximately 40mm x 22mm but is now hardly enhancing peripherally and appears rather indistinct.

The necrotic aortacaval node remains also present and has not significantly changed.  No other interval change."

Several questions:-

1.  What does "appears rather indistinct" amount to?

2.  If the periphery is "hardly enhancing", does this mean I'm heading for the entire tumor becoming necrotic?

3.  To what extent will the necrotic tissue be resorbed?  Or will it just sit there, inert, and, if so, does it constitute a hazard of any kind?

4.  My CTscans have been reported in only 2 dimensions, my PET/CT in three - why is this? How do they map?  Presumably the longest axis in each is the read for the same aspect? But does the shorter measurement in the CT correspond to the second or the third PET/CT measure given?

5.  My pathology is highly aggressive.  It's chromophobe, turned "predominantly sarcomatoid" and "extensively necrotic" but there's no reference to necrosis in the above report, save for the larger of two compromised lymph nodes. Any idea why that would be?

6.  We have no baseline measures as at the time I started on Votrient, the CT previous to the current one was on 4th September, the PET/CT on 27th September and I started Votrient on 9th November.  We feel sure that the ab wall tumor grew between 27th Sept and 9th Nov but what would be a plausible estimate of how much? 

To summarise, the tumor was indiscernible when the previous met was removed on 30th March, was 25 mm x 18 mm on 4th Sept, 50 mm x 25 mm x 43 mm on 27th Sept and 40 mm x 22 mm on 24th Jan.  It's shrunk but what would be your guess as to the size it had reached by the time I began the Votrient? [My primary was estimated at 70-80 mm in mid Oct 2011 and by 5th Dec at nephrectomy was 90 mm. My first met was invisible on 5th Dec 2011, 10 mm by end of Feb and 25 mm at op on 30th Mar. so each tumor has been very fast-growing]  Obviously, we're keen to try to figure out how much the tumor has shrunk on the Votrient treatment.

Any expert light on the above issues would be gratefully received.

 

saintmont
Posts: 45
Joined: Feb 2013

Hi I'am new to this site. A brief history. Had Right kidney taken out sept 2011 two seperate tumor on the kidney 10x9 and 9x 7cm. Survalliane scan august 2012 months later found 5 nodules left and right lung. Put trail whitch was sutent (4 weeks on and 2 weeks off)and everolimus (5 weeks on and 1 week off). Handled sutent find skin dryed out. Everolimus Very bad mouth ulcers left with scars in mouth. being on it for 5 month months Dr not happy with results some nodules shrinking other growing. Starting votrient feburary. I have being lucky I play golf, ride my bike and walk the the dog. I am also working full time. I live in Tasmania, Australia.

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Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

After sunitinib and everolimus, you should find pazopanib a cake-walk - much gentler side-effects. I've just played Carnoustie, this morning in balmy conditions over 40 degrees - F.  of course! - but it may be a bit warmer there.  Is there still a lot of damage in evidence from the bush-fires, or is all back to near normal now? Hope you weren't affected.

saintmont
Posts: 45
Joined: Feb 2013

Hi, Bush fires still burning about 5 miles from where we live in the bush land around Mt Wellington, where they cant get fire crews in. The fire in Dunally destroyed over 100 properties but lucky no one die from the bush fire. A volunteer fireman died from heart attack while fighting the fires poor fellow. There is a lot of smoke around had gale force winds saturday which did not help.

I play golf at Claremont Golf Club which is right next to the Cadbury chocolate factory the smell can be quite nice going down the 1st fairway. Played saturday in the gale force winds temp was 25 celuis roughly 80 f.

I start on pazopanib on tuesday and have a blood tests at 2 weeks and 4 weeks to see how my bloods are going. I am going to take the 800ml dose at night to see how that goes. Any other advice on this tablet would be appreciated. Thanks for the reply Texas_ wedge.

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Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Your bushfires are long out of the news here in the UK now (all about NHS problems and New England snowstorms at present) so I'm sorry to hear you still have that problem.

I envy you your first fairway experience at Claremont - at Carnoustie the major smell we get treated to (aside from seaweed at times) is burning rubber from a nearby location - the opposite end of the spectrum from chocolate in the way of fragrances!

Good luck on the Votrient.  Taking it at night sounds quite a good idea because it will enable you to easily stick to having it on an empty stomach.  However, just a passing thought:  I take it at around 6 p.m. which suits my daily pattern well.  I can't say for sure that it's the cause but I do sometimes find that an hour or two after taking it I get a disturbed gut and some flatulence which is relieved by having a meal.  So, I try to eat fairly soon after the 1 hour has elapsed following my daily dose (800mg).  With luck, if you're going to take it just before going to bed you'll simply sleep through any such effects and not be bothered.  As I said above, I think you'll find the side-effects won't be too bad.

saintmont
Posts: 45
Joined: Feb 2013

Thank's for the advice. I started on votrient tuesday night 800mg. Felt fine in the morning rode my push bike to work about 20 km round trip. Had long weekend last weekend for Regatta day had gastro for most of it a bad strain is going around a lot of nursing homes and a few wards at the hospital have gastro at the moment. Managed to play golf on the monday, weather was beautiful shot 80 had 7 on the 17 with a duck hook of the tee. Handicap down to 12.4 best I have ever being.

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Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

I don't envy you the smoke + winds but I do envy you the golf - don't know when I'll be playing again - it's been snowing continuously here for at least six hours now and looks likely to carry on for many more.  The day I shoot 80 with a 7 at Carnoustie I'll give up - meaning I'll quit while I'm ahead!

Keep us posted on your Votrient experience.  Some side-effects show up rapidly and may indicate a good response.   Others can take quite a while to build up.  I have a touch of diarrhoea today, after three months on it.  Mind you, that might be affected by a new blood pressure med added into the mix.  Also I had an anomalous response to a workout yesterday - finished a short rowing machine session with a sprint, breathing very hard and then checked my pulse a few minutes later.  I expected it to have dropped from, probably, 140-150 to, say, 105, so I was staggered to find it was 43.  It was back to a typical 57 this morning and I was relieved that my BP has fallen today to about 135/85, which delighted me.  However, I think it goes to show that with the targeted therapies + the ancillary drugs that may be necessary (e.g. to control blood pressure) careful monitoring is essential because events are very unpredictable. 

Liver enzyme levels are also crucial and I hope your oncologist will be checking you carefully in a couple of weeks time, and then again in another couple of weeks, to measure your reactions and side-effects.  You're obviously off to a good start and I hope Votrient does a good job for you.

saintmont
Posts: 45
Joined: Feb 2013

Hi, Being on votrient for nearly a week, still going ok, BP was 130/80 Heart Rate 57. I have a really good good oncologist and and the 2 blood test are to check the Liver enzyme levels and thyroid. Golf was a disaster today found every tree on the course.

saintmont
Posts: 45
Joined: Feb 2013

Hi, being on votrient about a week, has anyone had thier creatinine levels raise while on votrient.

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Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

What change have you seen? (My guys use the more informative clearance rate, rather than serum level, and mine has been moving around between about 105 and 112, currently 109, relative to a normal range of 62 - 106 umol/L.  which is nothing to get het up about.  We'd expect it to be higher at age 70 and because I take more exercise than most people.)

You probably don't have a problem but you can always ask your doctors and I, for one, always encourage everybody to ask all the questions they need to, or even just want to.

 

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GSRon
Posts: 1306
Joined: Jan 2013

Oh my... guess I opened my big mouth a bit too soon...  I have been seeing a Cardio Doc as part of my preparation for the Votrient..  So, yes, my heart is a tad less than 100%...  Treadmill test this week... geeesh...   And yes, my heart does skip a beat every now and then....

So, what does the Doc prescribe..??  Yup Metropolol...  when I mentioned the pain.. she looked at me as stated..  "It does not do that... Must be something else"...    I promptly gave her one of those "looks"...  she mumbled a bit and said.. well... if it is a problem there are other drugs...

Yes, I can be a ahem bugger at times...  seems like it brings me joy to irritate the Doctors a bit...  :) 

And I now have a copy of my recent medical records.. about 500 pages worth..!! 

Stay well everyone..!!

Ron - I don't want a pickle... jus wanna ride my motor sickle...

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angec
Posts: 669
Joined: Mar 2012

Just a quick update on mom.  Since starting 400 mgs of Votrient in mid December 2012.  Her blood pressure shot up very high 200/130.  She was already on bp meds but it was very controlled with a small dose before the Votrient. She also had the runs quite a bit which has left her severely dehydrated.  Her thyroid TSH is at 8 so slighty out of whack for which they gave her synthroid.  She is not taking it at the moment because that also makes her ill. For the thyroid she is balancing with homeopathi meds currently.  Getting back to her blood pressure, she tried several different bp meds and taking at one point three different ones together.  One gave her serious migraines so they swithced to catapress .2 mgs.  After a week on it the headaches went away but then her pressure dropped way too low and she was dizzy and the pills put her to sleep so she was sleeping all day long.  The doctor cut the catapress to .1mg  2-3x a day but mom has developed the headache again so we don't know how her pressure is fearing. We had a home cuff monitor and i purchsed the arm version.  Both of these were wrong and gave a much higher reading. We took both machines to the doctor and when tested the cuff gave a reading of 167/85 with a pulse of 45, the arm band gave a reading of 157/80 and pulse 53.  Her actual pressure was 116/63 and pulse 60. So you can see how it was way off.  They are arranging for a nurse to come to the home to take her pressure a few times a week. Which hopefully will start on Tuesday.

Besides this mom doesn't have an appetite and lost 11 pounds in two weeks.  i sure hope she has good scans on the Votrient because she was doing very well before she started and you wouldn't have known she was sick, in less than two months she looks like she is ready to give in. She also lost her voice and is not strong on her feet. Mom is 80 it is true, but she was a fun loving 80 year old without a wrinkle and had more energy than me at 50 and was very active in all ways.  But i am very happy to hear about the progress others are making with Votrient....

 

Any word on when any of the new drugs will be available?  I though the tibo (is that the name?) would be ready to be approved in July of this year.  

angec's picture
angec
Posts: 669
Joined: Mar 2012

Just a quick update on mom.  Since starting 400 mgs of Votrient in mid December 2012.  Her blood pressure shot up very high 200/130.  She was already on bp meds but it was very controlled with a small dose before the Votrient. She also had the runs quite a bit which has left her severely dehydrated.  Her thyroid TSH is at 8 so slighty out of whack for which they gave her synthroid.  She is not taking it at the moment because that also makes her ill. For the thyroid she is balancing with homeopathi meds currently.  Getting back to her blood pressure, she tried several different bp meds and taking at one point three different ones together.  One gave her serious migraines so they swithced to catapress .2 mgs.  After a week on it the headaches went away but then her pressure dropped way too low and she was dizzy and the pills put her to sleep so she was sleeping all day long.  The doctor cut the catapress to .1mg  2-3x a day but mom has developed the headache again so we don't know how her pressure is fearing. We had a home cuff monitor and i purchsed the arm version.  Both of these were wrong and gave a much higher reading. We took both machines to the doctor and when tested the cuff gave a reading of 167/85 with a pulse of 45, the arm band gave a reading of 157/80 and pulse 53.  Her actual pressure was 116/63 and pulse 60. So you can see how it was way off.  They are arranging for a nurse to come to the home to take her pressure a few times a week. Which hopefully will start on Tuesday.

Besides this mom doesn't have an appetite and lost 11 pounds in two weeks.  i sure hope she has good scans on the Votrient because she was doing very well before she started and you wouldn't have known she was sick, in less than two months she looks like she is ready to give in. She also lost her voice and is not strong on her feet. Mom is 80 it is true, but she was a fun loving 80 year old without a wrinkle and had more energy than me at 50 and was very active in all ways.  But i am very happy to hear about the progress others are making with Votrient....

 

Any word on when any of the new drugs will be available?  I though the tibo (is that the name?) would be ready to be approved in July of this year.  

osoyoosking's picture
osoyoosking
Posts: 1
Joined: Feb 2013

Hi , I'm just new to this site, and I am wondering if anyone has had the same symptoms as my mom. she has renal cell carcinoma in the right kidney with small tumors in both lungs, she started on votrient 2 weeks ago and has had some wierd syptoms since then , she has a weak feeling  in both her legs and yesterday her temp went to 95 f. she had chills and felt extremely cold, she has high blood pressure and is on meds for it , so she didn't take any pills(votrient) this morning , she goes for blood work today , I am wondering if anyone else has experienced anything of this type and how it worked out , i think we should go to the hosp but she can be pretty stubborn.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Sounds like a fairly serious side-effect, calling for prompt attention. Her reaction won't help her BP either.  I think it  was sensible for her not to take her daily dose of Votrient today.  I'd want her to either go to the hospital or call her oncologist asap. 

mabanner20
Posts: 1
Joined: Mar 2013

My husband Bob was diagnosed in Sept 24 2012 with stage 4 renal with mets the bone.  He was started on votrient, but had to stop because of surgery.  He restarted Nov 7.  All was well until the end of the year when he started having neurological changes-tremors, troubling getting his words out. Had an MRI of the brain and an ultrasound of the carotoid arteries done and everything came back clear.  He then had a new onset seizure on the 28th, just as we were leaving radiation.  No answers have been given for this, we have completed all the tests.  Completely frustrated. No history of seizures in his family.  I know that one of the severe side effects are for TIAs, but aren't seizures in the same body system?!

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foxhd
Posts: 2066
Joined: Oct 2011

Sorry for the complications. No Tia's or tie's (transient ischemic attacks/transient ischemic episodes) is short duration vascular blood flow that is interupted in the brain. May be from blockage or bleeding or arteriol  spasm. The area of brain tissue supplied by this flow suffer anoxia and symptoms occur. If the blood flow is not quickly restored, permanent damage can occur. Usually considered a stroke or cerebral vascular accident. (cva). A seizure is from mis directed electrical signals. Often overloading the brain circuitry. Both can be treated medically and at times surgically. Seizures result from something creating the misfiring. With late onset seizures, you look for the cause. Maybe injury, tumor or similar pathology. Some drugs can create the misfiring and resultant seizures. The system is under great stress. Here is hoping that it is only a tempoary problem.

GSRon's picture
GSRon
Posts: 1306
Joined: Jan 2013

Hi All..!  I am now only a few days on the Votrient... let the fun begin..!  So far not bad... today I have high blood pressure..  Just waiting to call the Dr to get some BP drugs..  Hope this is the worst of it.. we will see..!

Be Well all..!

Ron - I don't want a pickle.. jus wanna ride my motor sickle...

GSRon's picture
GSRon
Posts: 1306
Joined: Jan 2013

Hi All..!  I forgot to ask.. my blood pressure goes up and down like crazy at times..  Is this unusual..?  I can tell my BP is high.. the headache and I can feel it in my chest...  Not sure what to make of it... Yes I will be calling my Cardio Doc in an hour when the office opens...

Be Well...

Ron

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Ron, can you give some figures?  I have been asking your question for quite a while but don't have an expert to ask.  I'll be intrigued to hear what your cardiologist says (assuming he has a plausible answer).

Does anyone know of a reputable manual or monograph on the subject costing less than 100 bucks?  I know of one comprehensive work but it's so expensive and, from a glance at the table of contents, I don't think it would necessarily even answer my key questions. Also it will be far behind the latest research findings.

My BP fluctuates wildly, virtually all of the time, so the idea of assessing one's situation on the basis of a single reading appears to be arrant nonsense, unless I'm completely out of line (and you say you're the same as I).   My BP can easily shift 20 points in 5 minutes, sitting in the same position without doing anything meantime other than, possibly reading.  I have begun to suspect that 'taking one's blood pressure' is a spurious concept. Ambulant monitoring represents a move in the right direction although it won't, of course, explain fluctuations, merely, possibly, give some sense of the amount of fluctuation under varying conditions.

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