depression or just a temporary state of mind?

Options
Kyle Gilmore
Kyle Gilmore Member Posts: 55
in Head and Neck Cancer #1
Sometimes in the middle of the night I wake up and am already in racing thought mode.

I lay there and wait for it to pass...

Sometimes during the day I become overwhelmed by the thoughts of whats the use?

I take a lorazepam.

I am going to die eventually and came so close to it while I was on treatment that I think I already know what to expect.Nothing spectacular.

I still have this desire to survive that causes my heart to palpitate when it comes down to contemplating the real last moment.

Its kind of strange when I have accepted that death is the only for sure...Why would I be anxious about it? My intuition tells me it has to do with what I am leaving here...accomplishment wise. Was it good or did I just wing it...by good I mean did my life have anything to do with establishing and encouraging love? Did it have anything to do with
becoming what I am meant to become?

My Onc said she could cure me.... maybe I got alot of life to live maybe not.I go back and forth...mostly back.

Buddha, Jesus, Laoze...They all talk about the same thing...Compassion and Love. I am putting my money on these things...

Comments

  • Skiffin16
    Skiffin16 Member Posts: 8,305 Member
    #2
    Options
    Both....
    Keep on fighting, you'll get through it....

    But, it's always much easier with the help of a counselor and or support groups. Even meds to help via your MDs....

    Hang tough brother, it'll pass.

    Best,
    John
  • Hondo
    Hondo Member Posts: 6,636 Member
    #3
    Options
    G’day Kyle

    I think we all have depression at sometime or the other, maybe it is because like you said we have come close to death. I get a lot of depression at times all due to the tremendous amount of radiation I took to the head trying to keep killing my NPC cancer, I survived the cancer just hope I can survive the treatment. I don’t fear death in ant way, shape or form and I am ready if that is what the God I serve wants. But I believe he has left me here for some other reason and that is to finish the work he gave me to do in the beginning and that is to preach the Gospel. I don’t understand the depression I get from time to time, when it comes on me I sit as I can do nothing but pray. Maybe that is the reason for it God knows when I need to pray in order to keep me strong in my faith in Him.

    When I get depressed now I start singing to the Lord and found it helps pull me back out into the real world.

    God bless and be with you my friend
    Hondo
  • ratface
    ratface Member Posts: 1,337 Member
    #4
    Options
    Hondo said:

    G’day Kyle

    I think we all have depression at sometime or the other, maybe it is because like you said we have come close to death. I get a lot of depression at times all due to the tremendous amount of radiation I took to the head trying to keep killing my NPC cancer, I survived the cancer just hope I can survive the treatment. I don’t fear death in ant way, shape or form and I am ready if that is what the God I serve wants. But I believe he has left me here for some other reason and that is to finish the work he gave me to do in the beginning and that is to preach the Gospel. I don’t understand the depression I get from time to time, when it comes on me I sit as I can do nothing but pray. Maybe that is the reason for it God knows when I need to pray in order to keep me strong in my faith in Him.

    When I get depressed now I start singing to the Lord and found it helps pull me back out into the real world.

    God bless and be with you my friend
    Hondo

    Consider This Kyle
    That depression is perfectly normal. Do you question why you get hungry? This premise is the brainchild of Andrew Weil, MD in his book "Spontaneous Happiness" (2011) chapter 6, page 127-128

    "Many health professionals identify depressive rumination as the root cause of unhappiness. This is the tendency to brood over a few characteristic negative thought patterns and lose control over the thinking process, so that depressive ideas keep intruding and crowding out others... evolutionary psychologist propose that so many of us tend to engage in depressive rumination because evolution has selected it as a useful trait. They argue that depression makes sense as a problem-solving mode that spurs us to withdraw and deeply contemplate some thorny issue or situation. Ideally, it is self limited. Either the brooding leads to discovery of a solution, or, if there is no solution, it should abate when at some deep level we sense that the situation can't be helped and decide to move on"

    Isn't that exactly what you've done? Progressed through the steps necessary to deal with whatever comes? Cancer is just a catalyst in the thinking process. It's a process and you are normal for going through it. Personally I needed two psychologist and medication to understand this but mentally you are right where you should be under the circumstances.
  • RogerRN43
    RogerRN43 Member Posts: 185
    #5
    Options
    Those are normal feelings...
    Sometimes I think many people I see are so lucky to go on with their daily lives and be oblivious to their own mortality, to be happy, and enjoy life without the worry of recurrence and timelines. Unlike cancer or other serious illnesses, to be sick and know they will recover 100%. Ignorance is bliss. And ignorance would be so much easier for us if we didn't have new normals to live with, constant reminders that it is different from before we were diagnosed and underwent treatment.

    Hand anyone our plate. A plate of survival in terms of 5y references, stats that don't always look great. Alter their enjoyment of food. Make it necessary to survive through a stomach tube. Alter their appearance, the way their neck feels inside and out. Perhaps deafen them, or limit their ability to speak. Then if they are cured, to deal with the ongoing gifts of radiation side effects as each year passes. Despite being cured, the ongoing uncertainty. Tell me anyone in their right mind wouldn't be depressed to some degree.

    When I am asleep and dreaming is when I can be truly ignorant of my new reality. When I am awake, I cherish that I am alive, I spend time with my family, try to do things so I can ignore. It's not easy. Perhaps as time marches, I will grow more accustomed to my new normal(s), I will work again and all my concentration will be focused on it, however, it will never truly bury my anxiety of scans, of recurrence.

    And those who have had a recurrence, that is another contention, whether still curative or palliative.
    When I used to work with palliative patients dying at home, they had lots of pain medication and sometimes sedated to ease their journey. Their anxiety was so dulled by their altered level of consciousness, I question they even felt it. It was comfort at all costs in their last days. And sometimes the pain and anxiety that I did see was only in the eyes of everyone else around them.

    I read something the other day that made a lot of sense. Whether we have days, months, or years on this earth, we can choose how we feel as long as we are alive. Choose to be happy with what we have, choose to love, choose to enjoy what we can... because choosing to be miserable or letting depression and anxiety get to us is no way to live, when really, in absolute terms, everything that lives, must pass in time. It's how we choose to use that time to be the most important.
  • jtl
    jtl Member Posts: 456
    #6
    Options
    RogerRN43 said:

    Those are normal feelings...
    Sometimes I think many people I see are so lucky to go on with their daily lives and be oblivious to their own mortality, to be happy, and enjoy life without the worry of recurrence and timelines. Unlike cancer or other serious illnesses, to be sick and know they will recover 100%. Ignorance is bliss. And ignorance would be so much easier for us if we didn't have new normals to live with, constant reminders that it is different from before we were diagnosed and underwent treatment.

    Hand anyone our plate. A plate of survival in terms of 5y references, stats that don't always look great. Alter their enjoyment of food. Make it necessary to survive through a stomach tube. Alter their appearance, the way their neck feels inside and out. Perhaps deafen them, or limit their ability to speak. Then if they are cured, to deal with the ongoing gifts of radiation side effects as each year passes. Despite being cured, the ongoing uncertainty. Tell me anyone in their right mind wouldn't be depressed to some degree.

    When I am asleep and dreaming is when I can be truly ignorant of my new reality. When I am awake, I cherish that I am alive, I spend time with my family, try to do things so I can ignore. It's not easy. Perhaps as time marches, I will grow more accustomed to my new normal(s), I will work again and all my concentration will be focused on it, however, it will never truly bury my anxiety of scans, of recurrence.

    And those who have had a recurrence, that is another contention, whether still curative or palliative.
    When I used to work with palliative patients dying at home, they had lots of pain medication and sometimes sedated to ease their journey. Their anxiety was so dulled by their altered level of consciousness, I question they even felt it. It was comfort at all costs in their last days. And sometimes the pain and anxiety that I did see was only in the eyes of everyone else around them.

    I read something the other day that made a lot of sense. Whether we have days, months, or years on this earth, we can choose how we feel as long as we are alive. Choose to be happy with what we have, choose to love, choose to enjoy what we can... because choosing to be miserable or letting depression and anxiety get to us is no way to live, when really, in absolute terms, everything that lives, must pass in time. It's how we choose to use that time to be the most important.

    WOW!
    Roger, VERY well said and I am not one to give many compliments. Bravo!!!
  • ratface
    ratface Member Posts: 1,337 Member
    #7
    Options
    jtl said:

    WOW!
    Roger, VERY well said and I am not one to give many compliments. Bravo!!!

    " in absolute terms, everything that lives, must pass in time"
    Roger, the Buddhists refer to it as, "The concept/theory of permanence, as in, "There is none?" or "is anything really permanent?" At minimum, this disease can stimulate thought.
  • fisrpotpe
    fisrpotpe Member Posts: 1,349 Member
    #8
    Options
    simple
    depression happens for most of those hit with cancer, check with your general partitioner doc, simple meds will help.

    if you are depressed it is a chemical imbalance and best was is to get help.

    compared to what you been thru adding these meds to system is nothing.

    john
  • Greend
    Greend Member Posts: 678
    #9
    Options
    Treatments
    I recall vividly when I was getting what was supposed to be my last round of Chemo (I had bot chemo and rads at the same time) and had already lost close to 100 lbs. The Dr told me I might have to have one more depending on the MRI and I simply told him "no, we are done no matter what" I too had reached the point where death no longer sounded so scary and I truly was ready, I simply wan't going to take another cocktail.

    Now I look back at the past 16+ years and think how stupid that was (at the time it was rationale) based on all the blessings I have received and births of grandchildren I have seen since then. I am not afraid of death so my outlook is better in my opinion but my wife disagrees. I remember a saying when I was in the military and we would laugh and say "what are they going to do? Send us to Vietnam" (we were already there). Now I say "what is the worst thing they can do, make me go through cancer treatment again? Puts things in perspective real fast.

    Bless you all for having to understand what I mean, most of the non-abinormals certainly don't.
  • Kyle Gilmore
    Kyle Gilmore Member Posts: 55
    #10
    Options
    fisrpotpe said:

    simple
    depression happens for most of those hit with cancer, check with your general partitioner doc, simple meds will help.

    if you are depressed it is a chemical imbalance and best was is to get help.

    compared to what you been thru adding these meds to system is nothing.

    john

    I dont know if more meds is
    I dont know if more meds is what i really need. Its ben a bear trying to just get my self down to 25mcgs of fentanyl.
  • Skiffin16
    Skiffin16 Member Posts: 8,305 Member
    #11
    Options
    Kyle Gilmore said:

    I dont know if more meds is
    I dont know if more meds is what i really need. Its ben a bear trying to just get my self down to 25mcgs of fentanyl.

    Different Meds
    As you know there are different meds for different situations..the meds you refer are for pain. The meds you might need could be more for anxiety or depression.

    But communication, with others, be it MD's , other survivors, groups..or whatever works is always helpful also.

    Sometimes toughing it out, or doing it alone, isn't always the most productive or most expeditious.

    Hoping you find your path to relaxation and less anxiety.

    Best,
    John
  • Kyle Gilmore
    Kyle Gilmore Member Posts: 55
    #12
    Options
    ratface said:

    Consider This Kyle
    That depression is perfectly normal. Do you question why you get hungry? This premise is the brainchild of Andrew Weil, MD in his book "Spontaneous Happiness" (2011) chapter 6, page 127-128

    "Many health professionals identify depressive rumination as the root cause of unhappiness. This is the tendency to brood over a few characteristic negative thought patterns and lose control over the thinking process, so that depressive ideas keep intruding and crowding out others... evolutionary psychologist propose that so many of us tend to engage in depressive rumination because evolution has selected it as a useful trait. They argue that depression makes sense as a problem-solving mode that spurs us to withdraw and deeply contemplate some thorny issue or situation. Ideally, it is self limited. Either the brooding leads to discovery of a solution, or, if there is no solution, it should abate when at some deep level we sense that the situation can't be helped and decide to move on"

    Isn't that exactly what you've done? Progressed through the steps necessary to deal with whatever comes? Cancer is just a catalyst in the thinking process. It's a process and you are normal for going through it. Personally I needed two psychologist and medication to understand this but mentally you are right where you should be under the circumstances.

    I agree with that.
    Seems to
    I agree with that.

    Seems to me that every new path or situation I began thru out life involved high anxiety and anticapation.


    I can see how a major depression could serve as an ultimate catalyst of change or something that seems impossible to overcme and need for professional help...each just its own end of the full spectrum.

    Thanks!
  • Cathelen72
    Cathelen72 Member Posts: 33 Member
    #13
    Options
    Grateful
    Most days lately I have been feeling great and I am excited that I am able to take my life back from this cancer. However when aches and pains in my face and neck are bad or when my throat is so dry I am afraid to speak I am reminded of what I have just gone through in the last 8 months and I become scared and feel alone. But then......I come to this board and my spirits are lifted because I have a family here who can truly relate to what I m thinking and feeling. At my worst I thought to myself it would be easier to stop fighting and just let go because I didnt know if I can take the pain but there was something strong inside me tht would not let me hold onto that thought process. I had children and a husband who loved me and needed me, I had friends and family who believed in my strength to over come this. I was and am so lucky to have so much. Cancer is a huge test of will and determination. WE are all so strong and brave. I took what ever meds I needed to get me through at the advice of others who went through this before me and I was grateful for the advice. In a weird way I see the positive of my cancer........I really underestimated my inner and physical strength. Now I know that I am one strong mother!
  • Larrykins
    Larrykins Member Posts: 38 Member
    #14
    Options
    Cathelen72 said:

    Grateful
    Most days lately I have been feeling great and I am excited that I am able to take my life back from this cancer. However when aches and pains in my face and neck are bad or when my throat is so dry I am afraid to speak I am reminded of what I have just gone through in the last 8 months and I become scared and feel alone. But then......I come to this board and my spirits are lifted because I have a family here who can truly relate to what I m thinking and feeling. At my worst I thought to myself it would be easier to stop fighting and just let go because I didnt know if I can take the pain but there was something strong inside me tht would not let me hold onto that thought process. I had children and a husband who loved me and needed me, I had friends and family who believed in my strength to over come this. I was and am so lucky to have so much. Cancer is a huge test of will and determination. WE are all so strong and brave. I took what ever meds I needed to get me through at the advice of others who went through this before me and I was grateful for the advice. In a weird way I see the positive of my cancer........I really underestimated my inner and physical strength. Now I know that I am one strong mother!

    Took the words...
    Thanks for saving me the energy of writing what you just wrote Cathelen! I honestly wouldn't change a word of it, except perhaps by replacing the word 'mother' with 'father' at the end...
  • fisrpotpe
    fisrpotpe Member Posts: 1,349 Member
    #15
    Options
    Kyle Gilmore said:

    I dont know if more meds is
    I dont know if more meds is what i really need. Its ben a bear trying to just get my self down to 25mcgs of fentanyl.

    meds
    please talk to the doc, fentanyl is no at all like meds for depression or anxiety. I am not saying you need them but talk to doc and get his input. as john has said the support and information here is a huge help along with the support of your caregivers and friends at home.

    john

Discussion Boards