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Vegan and no sugar

Fayard's picture
Fayard
Posts: 343
Joined: May 2011

I was wondering if there is anyone who is following a complete vegan non sugar diet.
After watching the documentary FORKS OVER KNIVES, I decided not to eat fish or eggs, which were the only animal protein I was consuming.

Of course, I am concerned about my weight.

daisy366's picture
daisy366
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mar 2009

I need to get that video. The local vegan group was showing it recently and I missed it.

I also stopped animal products and processed food - about 95%. When I asked the Food for Life folks about sugar they discouraged processed sugars. They said Natural sugars are OK. I don't stress so much about getting slightly off track here and there since going vegan takes care of the major culprits that encourage cancer.

I'm drinking almond milk and I noticed that depending on the brand, "original" can mean sugarless or with cane juice (sugar). READ THE INGREDIENTS and don't believe the front label. The sugarless is not bad.

Nuts, beans,and grains will give you the calories that you might be looking for. I wish I had that problem.

Hugs, Mary Ann

Fayard's picture
Fayard
Posts: 343
Joined: May 2011

Thank you for your input.
I do not even eat anything with sweeteners.
About the almond milk, I noticed the problem for me in regard to ingredients including evaporated cane sugar. I make my own every other day.

If you stop completely animal products, processed food and sugar you will definitely loose weight.
That is my issue right now, not that I ever been over weight.

jazzy1's picture
jazzy1
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mar 2010

I'm not totally there as still consume fish approx twice per week and 3 eggs for one meal every other week. Feel like I'm missing protein without the fish, plus I really do love fish, but do have my list of the BEST types of fish with low or no mercury.

My nutritionist told me, eat lots of grains, legumes, organic fresh fruits and vegies and take Whey Protein...avoid dairy and meat. Bingo..this is my way of eating. Now if we follow the acidic/alkaline diet that Claudia touts we should have a 80/20 ratio (alkaline/acidic) diet. That being the case, grains,oats and brown rice must be watched and most fruits and vegies are okay.

Concerned about your weight? I'm assuming you're meaning putting on? I'm similar, but do a fair amount of this setup with diet that I posted but workout 6 days a week...yoga, power-walking, elliptical equipment and free weights. Remember muscle weighs more!! I will plop on the scale approx every other week and I'm like clock-work, same weight range. Feel avoiding the processed foods and maintaining my workouts helps keep me in line weight wise.

Didn't you add to your diet some Whey protein? This helps our muscles rebuild when we break them down from working out and in general, daily life.

I need to read or watch the documentary FORKS OVER KNIVES. Did you view online somewhere???

Fayard, I give you credit, you keep on trying and coming back with more questions. That's the way to learn as I'm always doing....reading and asking questions.

Do you take any supplements? I'm up and down on these additions to our diet, and have cut back a few, but as I read more seeing reasons to rely on our diets only....gee what to do????

Jan

JoAnnDK
Posts: 276
Joined: Jun 2011

Cancer is considered an inflammatory disease, so doesn't it follow that the anti-inflammatory diet should thus be used? That includes dairy and fish.

Also.......how to explain the longevity of people who consume a Mediterranean diet (endorsed by the Mayo Clinic), which includes cheese, eggs, fish twice a week, and poultry? They use lots of olive oil (mentioned in the movie as something to avoid).

How about the low heart disease in the French, who indulge in cheese and wine?

And how about fish? Can’t eat that either? The Japanese diet, high on fish, has been shown to be one of the healthiest in the world. Huh?

So....who to believe?

PETA is firmly behind the push for vegan diets and they provide much of the so-called "research". Do I really want to follow a diet/agenda pushed by these people? These are the same folks who protested the temporary use of a pig's liver in a human because the pig's consent had not been obtained!!!! Laughable.

You can probably find "Knives Over Forks" at your local library.

Fayard's picture
Fayard
Posts: 343
Joined: May 2011

Thank you for your input.
Yes, I add vegan protein, but it tastes like h...!

I do take supplements, but not much.
Currently I am only taking Vitamin D and C, B12 and Calcium.

I watch the documentary in Netflix.
The muscle building is a great idea. I am doing yoga about 3 timer per week, walking 5 nd nw I am starting on light weights every other day.

jazzy1's picture
jazzy1
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mar 2010

What's the name of your vegan protein? I do love mine and think I mentioned it to you, WHEY TO HEALTH. All protein and nothing else added, plus "organic". How much protein to get in your diet each day? My nutritionist suggested according to my weight, should be around 50 grams....I'm right there!

The weights are what's the best for building bone density. My hubbie used to own gyms many moons ago so tend to follow his advice. Walking is okay for this, but the best is free weights or even the weights at the gym via machines. Works our muscles deep and forces them to move. I do free weights at our home gym once per week and add on the other machines at the gym another day.

We all do what's best for us as most don't have weights at home or gym memberships. Sand filled, gallon milk cartons are great, or just a plain brick to lift above your head. All excellent!!

Jan

RoseyR
Posts: 464
Joined: Feb 2011

Of course we're all still struggling with this question--since major studies of diet's impact on cancer patients are so few. Claudia has sent us a lot of useful tips, of course, but despite all of those messages and great ones from Jill, as well, I too am still struggling with the question: what is the best comprehensive diet for us?

I too am not SURE that going totally vegan is the answer--for the following reasons:

1) The Mediterranean diet is touted by many doctors (including alternative doctors such as Bruce West) as the healthiest in the world. West repeatedly says that the last thing he would recommend to a cancer patient is a "very lowfat diet." His own mother allegedly has survived metastatic uterine cancer (to the lungs) for nine years now via the Meditteranean diet and supplements (thymic peptides, etc) from Standard Process Labs.

3) Dr. Russell Blaylock heartily recommends olive oil for cancer patients because of its squalene and recommends taking curcumn capsules with a tablespooon of olive oil.

4) The book Anti-Cancer also extolls olive oil and Mediterranean diet.

5) Even doctors with a very radical approach to treating cancer such as Nicholas Gonzalez of Manhattan recommend organic meat a few times a week depending on their patients' blood type; some do better as vegetarians; others do not.

6) My own integrative doctor, an MD from U Penn, studied integrative medicine for six years in Eastern Europe, where a "lactovegetarian diet" was deemed the best approach to treating cancer. Obviously any dairy consumed needs to be organic, but he assured me a few days ago that eating cheese ocasionally, esp goat and sheep cheese, is just fine. (Curiously, since I've been eating goat-cheese and fig sandwiches with arugula two to three times a week for lunch, for just thte past two weeks, I've been feeling better. I hardly EVER had cheese or dairy IN the preceding nine months, by the way. However, I DO have why protein for breakfast every day--the brand is "Whey 2 Go," recommended by the doctor who treated Schreiber for years.

____________

ON THE OTHER HAND:

I too have seen articles, blogs, etc. warning against ANY dairy consumption, including a book by a woman with ovarian cancer who claims that the reason Asian women have nearly none is that they avoid all dairy products.

And obviously, none ofus wants to consume milk, cheese, even yogurt that's not organic.

Dr. Blaylock warns not to consume any dairy or any milk except goat's milk.

_______________

WHEAT: A NEW CONUNDRUM?

7) Some doctors warn that WHEAT is a culprit in raising our blood sugar far too quickly--even whole wheat products: that we are better off with oats or rye.

High blood sugar levels (even above 85) via standard blood test (nonfasting blood sugar levels) are associated with higher rates of recurrence and recently several articles have warned that whole wheat raises our blood sugar faster than even many kinds of conmercial pastries or muffins. Obviously it offers more fiber and nutrition, but apparently it raises blood sugar very quickly and its reputation as a low-glycemic food is undeserved. (Mercola's web site recently featured research on this subject; if any of you can refute it, thank you, since I don't want anothr dietary element to worry about!)

Best,
Rosey

JoAnnDK
Posts: 276
Joined: Jun 2011

It is recommend that pasta be cooked al dente to keep its glycemic index lower.

"Pasta has a lower glycemic index than bread. Pasta's glycemic index can be lowered further by cooking it less (al dente). This is because al dente pasta resists the effect of digestive enzymes more than regular cooked pasta and so it has a lower glycemic index. "

Fayard's picture
Fayard
Posts: 343
Joined: May 2011

The name is VEGA and is all plant protein.
It does not taste too good.
I am doing weights a little every day.
How much do you weight, if you do not mind me asking?

I am going to have to start eating fish again!

jazzy1's picture
jazzy1
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mar 2010

I wouldn't think eating some small servings of fish isn't that bad. Do you have the listing or link for types of fish to eat....with no mercury, etc? Happy to send if you need it.

My hubbie was pounding on my head and telling me to do the free weights for years...then had my first DEXA scan which showed thinning at top of hip area. Decided to listen to him (for once...lol) and do them, plus watch my vit D and calcium intake which is good for bones. One year later after these changes and had my next DEXA (2 yrs later) it was "normal"....yeah! I patted him and myself on the back for my accomplishment.

I'm small, 5'2" and weigh around 107 lbs. Small framed so more prone to bone issues and then add on all the chemo/pelvic radiation, menopause, and I'm really challenged.

Google foods with protein and you'll find a list that you can follow. Amazing what foods do have protein and also calcium.

Jan

RoseyR
Posts: 464
Joined: Feb 2011

Jan,

Forget whether you take any supplements. Know you watch your diet and work out, but if there are supplements beyond whey protein that you take, would you let us know?

Thanks
Rosey

jazzy1's picture
jazzy1
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mar 2010

I used to be a huge junkie with supplements and per my nutritionist have cut back many...getting so much more from my good eating habits. Still working on more outta here

I take --

vit d
Digestive enzymes (probiotic)
Stamets 7 (mushrooms)
BioSil (bone strengthener)
COQ10
Fish oil (thinking this will go as get much with my diet...just have some of these left in inventory)

When I make my protein shake I as well add flax seed powder, organic chia seeds and cinnamon spice (lots of antioxidant). Brazil nuts are great for selenium....did you know this? Got rid of my supplement and replaced with nuts.

What do others take supplement-wise?

Jan

Fayard's picture
Fayard
Posts: 343
Joined: May 2011

I take Vitamin D, C, B12, Probiotics, Iron, and Calcium.
I like to try Biosil.
What is COQ10 for?

RoseyR
Posts: 464
Joined: Feb 2011

Jan,

Aside from one whey protein shake every morning, I too continue to take the following:

one scoop of ProGreens in glass of water each morning before breakfast (I swear this has helped me feel good throughout treatment and protected my intestines: lots of chlorella, probiotics, spirulina, and so forth);

fish oil (by Pharmax, two tsps a day)

curcumin (Meriva or Life Extension), 500 x 3 a day

AHCC (mushroom extract routinely given to cancer patients in Japan); would like to know how Stamets compares to it. AHCC is pretty expensive at full dosage (six capusles a day), about 200 dollars a month! My integrative doctor strongly recommends it, however although I believe that Shitake is its dominant mushroom (mixed with others, however);

six multivitamns by Pure called "Nutrient 050" (no copper or iron in them)

5 milligrams of melatonin about an hour before bed
____________

So can you elaborate a bit on why you're taking Co-Q 10? I do know it's generally tonic for the cardiovascular system and in a few studies, it seemed to help ovarian cancer patients during chemo.

And how about your own mushroom product?

Were both prescribed by an integrative doctor?

Thanks,
Rosey

Fayard's picture
Fayard
Posts: 343
Joined: May 2011

Jan, can you please email me the link?
I am glad you are doing great.
I just had a bone density scan last week. Result: osteoporosis in my spinal, and osteopenia in my hips and neck. How do you like that?

I guess most women are diagnosed with osteoporosis every year, so I will not let it control my life.
I decided to eat fish twice a week again.
For how long a day do you do your weights?

Tresia23's picture
Tresia23
Posts: 73
Joined: Dec 2010

Hi, I have been following this topic and just wanted to add that my brother was a very strict vegan for thirty years and about five years ago was diagnosed with osteoporosis in his spine and hips. He now eats organic free range meat once or twice a week. He also has a raw egg with juice for breakfast (ugh). He drinks organic milk and has yoghurt now too. When he was a vegan he used to also have problems with gout from eating lentils and nuts.

He used to be very short tempered in his vegan days. He said he also had problems with concentration which have disappeared since he revised his diet. We all remember him being tired and on edge before he made some healthy changes. He walks every day for an hour or more with weights. His bone density has now reverted to normal for his age and build (he is now 65).

I really believe that nutrition is about balance and moderation. David Servan-Schreiber's book is an excellent guide for optimising diet to make our bodies inhospitable to cancer.

Keep up with your weights, and maybe look at those pretty ones that strap onto wrists and ankles. You can get used to wearing them.

Georgia

Rewriter's picture
Rewriter
Posts: 494
Joined: Dec 2009

When I ended chemo and began to regain my strength ( during treatment, I ate a high-protein diet that included lean meat), I started to follow a no-sugar, vegan diet that included lots of vegetables and fruits, nuts and seeds, almond milk, and low-inflammation-factor (IF) beans and grains. I have no idea whether or not my cancer would have recurred if I had not followed this diet; but chemo and radiation ended in November '08, and I remain NED. Despite not knowing the impact of this diet on staying cancer free, my overall health has vastly improved. As I mentioned elsewhere on this board, my cholesterol is excellent, I got off blood pressure meds, and my heart attack risk is very low.

I have continued to follow this mostly vegan/no sugar diet, and I track everything I eat using the free chart/nutrition analysis tool available at nutritiondata.self.com I also track each food's inflammation factor using this chart http://nutrition.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=nutrition&cdn=health&tm=18&f=21&su=p1026.30.336.ip_&tt=6&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//inflammationfactor.com

The positive aspects of my diet are that it:

--is strongly anti-inflammatory
--contains an appropriate balance of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids
--provides me with more than enough vitamins
--includes far less fat than would a diet that included regular consumption of meat and dairy

The negatives include:

--too many carbs; I almost always exceed the RDA for carbs by about 50 percent
--not enough protein or iron; although I don't think that we need as much protein or iron as what is currently recommended, I get less than 50 percent of the RDA

Lately, I am craving meat; and I can't get the picture of a steak or burger out of my head. I pay attention to cravings, because I think our bodies generally tell us what they need. That being said, I am considering having ONE piece of organic, grass-fed beef to see how it makes me feel.

The upshot is that I believe in cutting out ALL sugar (including honey, maple syrup, molasses, even agave nectar and Stevia; I use pureed bananas and figs as sweeteners); planning meals around anti-inflammatory foods that include a variety of fruits and vegetables; eating no or small amounts of dairy; and eating meat and poultry ONLY when my body craves it.

I hope this helps.

Jill

RoseyR
Posts: 464
Joined: Feb 2011

From what I can see, this is as close to an ideal cancer-protective diet as I can imagine based on all my reading to date.

I'm trying to do the same, Jill, although I've fallen away from almond milk (assume it's highly alkaline?) to make my whey smoothies in the morning with mere water and a banana.

I too have cut way back on the animal protein I ate three to four times a week during chemo (organic chicken and turkey, mostly) and now have it just twice or so a week. Mostly quinoa and vegetables, beans, salads as staples.

A recent indulgence I worry about a bit is my fig spread and goat cheese sandwich on whole grain bread with arugula--made at my health food restaurant a block away: all organic products, including milk and cheese. (I ADORE figs but worry that they have too much sugar to consume three times a week, as I do. In fact, the only "cookie" I allow myself now is a fig (no sugar added) cookie in oat dough: scrumptious: fulfills those laste-afternoon cravings.

I seem to feel especially good after eating eggplant stew, by the way. (In Asian medicine, eggplant is administered for uterine disorders, including cancer! I hadn't known that before I knew that eggplant makes me feel good!)

But I agree we should ENJOY what we eat--and indeed, my daily meals are one of my great pleasures.

Love,
Rosey

RoseyR
Posts: 464
Joined: Feb 2011

From what I can see, this is as close to an ideal cancer-protective diet as I can imagine based on all my reading to date.

I'm trying to do the same, Jill, although I've fallen away from almond milk (assume it's highly alkaline?) to make my whey smoothies in the morning with mere water and a banana.

I too have cut way back on the animal protein I ate three to four times a week during chemo (organic chicken and turkey, mostly) and now have it just twice or so a week. Mostly quinoa and vegetables, beans, salads as staples.

A recent indulgence I worry about a bit is my fig spread and goat cheese sandwich on whole grain bread with arugula--made at my health food restaurant a block away: all organic products, including milk and cheese. (I ADORE figs but worry that they have too much sugar to consume three times a week, as I do. In fact, the only "cookie" I allow myself now is a fig (no sugar added) cookie in oat dough: scrumptious: fulfills those laste-afternoon cravings.

I seem to feel especially good after eating eggplant stew, by the way. (In Asian medicine, eggplant is administered for uterine disorders, including cancer! I hadn't known that before I knew that eggplant makes me feel good!)

But I agree we should ENJOY what we eat--and indeed, my daily meals are one of my great pleasures.

Love,
Rosey

Susanna23
Posts: 66
Joined: Dec 2010

Ladies, good to read this thread! I will just contribute a few ideas
I have been taking a vitamin D supplement (25 micrograms) for a few months, since chemo. My GP ordered a test when I'd not been taking it for very long and it was 57 which is considered low so am trying to get it up to 80. My GP agrees with me and we will have it retested in a month or so to see if the supplement has brought it up.
The only oils we use at home now are coconut oil for stir fry/cooking and flaxseed oil for salad dressing. Came across a farm in Sussex that supplies the latter on standing order and their manager told me about the former (I think they also supply people on the Budwig diet - something I haven't done)
Using a lot of turmeric - powder in soup, curry, pickle from local Asian shop (like lime pickle) and also slices of pickled turmeric. Have been advised on healthy benefits of turmeric by 'beauty therapist' (aromatherapy facial, lymphatic drainage, leg waxing) who is from Kenya where it is a known remedy.
Btw, a bit off topic but therapist lady also mentioned mistletoe therapy (Iscador) to me some months ago, which I have now managed to get on the NHS at the London Hospital for Integrated Medicine (Helen, do you know about this place?)
Best regards
Susan

HellieC
Posts: 445
Joined: Nov 2010

I've read about the mistletoe therapy and saw that it was available in London. I thought about following it up, but I have decided, for the time being anyway, to stick with my B17 tablets (derived from apricot kernels) - but thanks for the information and I have saved a link to the hospital for future reference (it used to be the Royal Homeopathic - my Mum was treated there when we lived in London). I have been taking them since my chemo stopped and I am now 11 months post chemo. We thought I had another recurrence a month or so back and I had an MRI followed by a PET/CT scan but all is OK. They think the pain I am getting in my pelvis is due to "wear and tear" or scar tissue pulling inside. I am trying hard with my diet - hardly anything sweet now, much less animal protein, more fruit and veggies etc. I make cakes using xylitol instead of sugar (if I make any at all - usually for guests).
best wishes
Helen

Rewriter's picture
Rewriter
Posts: 494
Joined: Dec 2009

Rosey,

I have been eating dried figs because ten of them provide 269 mg. of calcium, about as much as a cup of skim milk or 8 oz. of lowfat yogurt. Also, figs are an alkaline-forming food.

As for the goat cheese, it has almost twice the amount of protein and half the fat of cream cheese. In addition, it is only mildly inflammatory. There are 8g of fat in one ounce, and your sandwich probably does not contain much more than that.

If you love this sandwich, it's really not that bad! In fact, it contains some very beneficial nutrients.

Enjoy,

Jill

Gracegoi's picture
Gracegoi
Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 2011

I was on Vacation and away from my usual routine of herbal tea and any juicing. I found myself at the whole foods bar ravenous a few times . LOL! I was drawn to the fish with parmesan which is not my favorite meat .I felt satisfied afterwards.

I tried the goat cheese a few times Rosey. I could not take the smell. And I'm a fiber spinner! It's okay as a fiber but not in cheese . Thats just me .

I'm not sugar free because I'm still indulging in soft serve ice cream. I did give it up for almost a year after my cancer diagnosis. I have never been a total vegan in my life, I've always had dairy and eggs. The high carbs In my diet probably negate any possibility of being sugar free.

I relax about it. I believe for the most part I'm doing pretty good. Any time I do taste things with lots of sugar or honey I know right away and discard it " with out guilt" ;-) Anyone who wants to eat a low sugar diet wil know how difficult that can be in company. I find I recoil from really sweet things. They don't feel healthy. I belive thats trusting our cravings . The less sugar we get in our diets over a long period of time the less we like really sweet prepared foods.

RoseyR
Posts: 464
Joined: Feb 2011

I agree: we should generally trust muy body's cravings, and since having given up sugar almost entirely a year ago (at diagnosis), I lost any real craving for it. The only sweet I can't pass without longing (though I never succumb to it!) is flaky pastry, especially good old-fashioned Jewish cheese Danish.

But I agree that once we abstain for a long time, we become sensitized to sweets, so that when we taste something that's harmfully sweet, we recoil!

Rosey

RoseyR
Posts: 464
Joined: Feb 2011

Thanks, Jill, for assuring me that goat cheese has just half the fat of cream cheese; even the goat cheese that I do eat on sandwiches is from a small local health-food restaurant, "Pure Fare" that assures us all their dairy products are organic.

It's also great to know that the figs I adore have an alkaline effect on the body. As soon as my final exam grades are in for the semester, I'm going to use my sabbatical leave to study, among other things, how to keep my diet as alkaline as possible: something you've excelled at.

You'd also mentioned that you indulge in a glass (or two?) of red wine occasionally. I was able to abstain even without longings for seven to eight months during treatment, but with the cold weather setting in have to admit I'm tempted to have one glass with dinner a FEW nights a week. Does anyone know how harmful this might be? (Yes, red wine has benefits but it is acidic, right? And it does raise our blood sugar unless we consume food along with it, right?)

Championing some pleasure, some joie de vivre!

Rosey

Rewriter's picture
Rewriter
Posts: 494
Joined: Dec 2009

Rosey--

Red wine contains resveratrol, which is anti-inflammatory, protects the heart, and lowers blood sugar. Thus, my opinion is that having a few glasses a week is not harmful at all.

The recommendation is that if you do not drink, don't start. Resveratrol is also in grapes and some other fruits. I'll stick to my wine, though.

Cheers!

Jill

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