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Vitamin D. Interesting.

pepebcn's picture
pepebcn
Posts: 6352
Joined: Aug 2010

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-08/vdio-ctv081611.php

keystone's picture
keystone
Posts: 133
Joined: Dec 2010

Started my hubby on this this morning!!

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

hi pepe,

steve colocan posted about yesterday.
i am really impressed to think we have two amazing research on team csn.

eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-08/vdio-ctv081611.php
yes its the best news.
did my first round of blood tests yesterday, see the onc today 2pm.

did vitD and CEA, hears hoping.

hugs,
pete

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 969
Joined: Oct 2010

Thanks for the update, Pepe.

"Vitamin D: essential in the initial phases of colon cancer
In light of these findings, chronic vitamin D deficiency represents a risk factor in the development of more aggressive colon tumours. Patients in the initial stages of colon cancer, the time when the VDR still has a substantial presence in the cells, could benefit from being treated with vitamin D3. However, this would not be useful in the advanced stages of the disease when the presence of the VDR is very much reduced."

hmmm, I hope that there is progress there since so many researchers are chasing vitamin D derivatives and metabolites for advanced colon cancer.

As an aside, after consultations with two doctors about treatment with up to 50,000 iu, my wife is approaching 3 months at 30,000+ iu of D3 per day with lots of vitamin K2 as menaquinone-4. We test her blood calcium every 3-4 weeks, and she gets ~400 mg of calcium in her supplements. Her blood calcium is still only slightly above midrange. Makes me wonder how others do with less calcium (caution: we are careful to limit supplemental calcium intake that could easily "overachieve" on calcium blood levels) and vitamin D3, or if they have teeth and bone problems.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

i printed the news item and discussed with onc.
her answer yes vit d is promising but its only mice in the study, not human trials.
she does not get excited by mice, has been disappointed in the past by promising mice based discoveries.

my vit d today was 137 nmol/L down from 149 nmol/L 3 months ago.
this i expected as i missed 3 weeks of vit d
while in fiji. its also mid winter here, not getting much sun and the suns not strong.

i am taking 10,000iu a day and even my said that was not necessary, just get it from food and sun. I am thinking of upping my intake to 10,000iu in morning and 5,000iu evenings.

may i ask wife levels with 50,000 ? do you split that 25,000 morning and evening ?
just curious.

i have faith in vit d and i understand my onc's advice and that she cannot advise what not proven.

so whats an informed patient to do ?

hugs,
pete

pepebcn's picture
pepebcn
Posts: 6352
Joined: Aug 2010

10000iU sounds a lot !

lisa42's picture
lisa42
Posts: 3663
Joined: Jul 2008

Just a comment on the calcium... I've been on calcium supplements along with others. My naturopathic dr. had me taking 4 tablets of it a day. I just looked at the bottle & realized that each pill was 795 mg. & it's calcium orotate (which is the most readily absorbable type of calcium)- that means I was taking 3,180 mg. of calcium a day. I guess it was too much because my last CT scan showed calcification of the descending aorta in my heart. I read online that this can be from too much calcium. I haven't been back to the naturopath since discovering this, but I stopped taking the calcium for a week totally and have now just been taking one tablet a day. I'm kind of worried now about the implications of the calicification and what that might mean in me.

I do supplement the vitamin D also- 10,000 IU a day with liquid drops (which are more absorbable than pills). I don't think there's any problem there, as my vit D level a couple of months ago when checked was 58. I heard that ideally for colon cancer patients, they want the level to rise to between 70 and 80. When my vitamin D level was first checked three years ago, it was at an abysmal level of just 13. I live in southern california and get plenty of sunshine every day and was taking a multivitamin that had 400 mg of vitamin D in it- definitely wasn't helping me then. In fact, even when I upped my intake of vitamin D then, my level wasn't going up. It wasn't until I changed to the liquid spray form of vitamin D that my level started rising. It was then I realized I have a problem with absorbtion. Liquid forms of vitamins are always much more absorbable.

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 969
Joined: Oct 2010

Lisa, calcium orotate is only about 1/9 calcium. For us guys, some nutritionists are saying we get calcium deposition in our blood vessels instead of in our bones because of a lack of vitamin K2 as menaquinone-4, rather than due to an actual calcium excess.

keystone's picture
keystone
Posts: 133
Joined: Dec 2010

Where do you get the spray Lisa?

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 969
Joined: Oct 2010

Pete, my wife's D3 dosage is currently in the 30,000s, pills split into 3 doses a day. She is fit and the conventional biomarker, CEA, is "normal" and going down. However, we have several more challenges like chemo resistance and suspected micromets from last year's unreported para-aortic nodes (removed 3 months ago), to enter any cure zone.

The rationale and means of going up to 50,000 iu per day has been discussed with two doctors. One dr claims a number of years of successful clinical experience with this dosage, for his patients in cancer's end zone. According to this doctor, basing his views on (much) earlier European reports, research and his clinical experience, high dose D3 is helpful and can be life saving, but rigorously controlling calcium intake (below 400 mg/day total supplemental calcium when on 50,000 iu D3) to avoid hypercalcemia is a requirement.

At such high D3 intake levels, according to the dr, apparently the D3 blood levels measured in lab tests eventually drop and diverge from actual or saturated tissue levels to become meaningless.

We're gaining experience with absolute calcium control, doing calcium blood tests every 3 weeks (along with CBC while on daily chemo) instead of 2-6 months. Earlier in the high 25,000+ iu D3 dose range, lots of incidental extra calcium (ca 1600 mg, some of it planned, but without a high potency "calcium supplement") was elevating her blood calcium levels to the upper normal range. We use the menaquinone-4 (a K2) as both cancer kill adjuvant to UFT (oral med yields 5FU + GBL/GBH) with ascorbate, and to direct calcium into the bones, rather than deposit on blood vessels. I had to read every label carefully and make a list to get control of calcium.

I suspect my wife would go low or hypocalcemic on chemo without the extra calcium in some supplements and extra vitamin D3.

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