Is this normal chemo therapy procedure?

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Hissy_Fitz
Hissy_Fitz Member Posts: 1,834
edited March 2014 in Ovarian Cancer #1
Monday was my chemo day and as usual, I was the last one left in the infusion center when the nurses and techs started getting ready to leave. It was after 5 PM and there was no one there but my husband, myself, and my RN. Judging from his earlier remark that I had 45 minutes left of the Carbo, I would say there was about 20 minutes worth left in the bag when he took it off the pole and discarded the bag.

I questioned this, since I had not received all the meds, and he said the meds go to the bottom of the bag and the rest was just saline.

It was obvious that this nurse wanted to leave, which makes me wonder if he was telling the truth, or did he short me 20% of my Carbo? Should I mention this to my doctor?

I would hate to accuse an infusion nurse of deliberately cutting a patient's treatment short for no good reason. On the other hand, this question really has me upset. I could not sleep last night for wondering about it.

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  • jtotten1
    jtotten1 Member Posts: 21
    #2
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    Leaving Early
    I would DEFINATELY report this to your Doctor! I'm sure the nurse wanted to leave on time, but the bags are pre-measured for a reason, and the bottom of the bag has the same amount of chemicals as the top of the bag.

    This nurse was irresponsible and should be putting the needs of the patient before getting out to do some Holiday shopping!

    Hang in there - stay strong!
  • mopar
    mopar Member Posts: 1,972 Member
    #3
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    TELL YOUR DOCTOR
    My infusions always took between 7 and 8 hours. Needless to say, I'd be the last one out the door. On occasion, They were in a hurry to get me out of there so they could go home. The fast drip would make me really ill. I told my doctor, and he took care of it. This never happened again. I never mentioned names, but I'm sure they were able to track who my nurse was that particular day. I didn't want to get anyone in trouble, but let's face it - this is our life we're talking about. Mention it to your doctor, please. I'm sure they can plan ahead for your appointments and be sure they've alloted enough time.

    Luv & Hugs!
    Monika
  • nancy591
    nancy591 Member Posts: 1,027 Member
    #4
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    NOT HAPPY
    I definately would not be happy about that. I too would say something about it.
  • saundra
    saundra Member Posts: 1,370 Member
    #5
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    Absolutely!!!!
    Do tell your oncologist. This is an outrage. The IV's are a solution and cannot be separated out in the bag.

    Saundra
  • LPack
    LPack Member Posts: 645
    #6
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    Actually where I take chemo, they have started something new. A small bag of saline after each chemo to MAKE SURE we get all of the chemo IN THE BAG. Don't know exactly how it is hooked up, takes a little longer, but not much.

    Libby
  • MIMI of 4
    MIMI of 4 Member Posts: 8
    #7
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    Chemotherapy Procedure
    I've stayed in the public areas of this discussion board and refrained from commenting, but this post prompted me to register and comment. I am a nurse and have worked in oncology. I started viewing the public discussion boards doing research for an education project I am currently working on. To your question, No, this is not normal chemo therapy procedure. Is it common practice, I sincerely hope not. Pharmacist or Nurses who mix chemotherapy in the bags are diligent about mixing well, so the medicine is equally distributed in the saline or other IV fluid. You are justified in telling your MD about this and I would also suggest speaking with the Nurse Manager or Office Manager of the facility where you got the infusion. Chemotherapy drugs are expensive and everyone should get their complete dose unless they are having a reaction to the medication. Good Luck with your treatment. I always look for your posts.
  • lindaprocopio
    lindaprocopio Member Posts: 1,980
    #8
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    MIMI of 4 said:

    Chemotherapy Procedure
    I've stayed in the public areas of this discussion board and refrained from commenting, but this post prompted me to register and comment. I am a nurse and have worked in oncology. I started viewing the public discussion boards doing research for an education project I am currently working on. To your question, No, this is not normal chemo therapy procedure. Is it common practice, I sincerely hope not. Pharmacist or Nurses who mix chemotherapy in the bags are diligent about mixing well, so the medicine is equally distributed in the saline or other IV fluid. You are justified in telling your MD about this and I would also suggest speaking with the Nurse Manager or Office Manager of the facility where you got the infusion. Chemotherapy drugs are expensive and everyone should get their complete dose unless they are having a reaction to the medication. Good Luck with your treatment. I always look for your posts.

    This is a SERIOUS breath of protocol! HORRIBLE!
    For my chemo, they wait until the bag is flat flat flat and I get every drop in me, and THEN they attach a bag of saline, for what they lovingly call "the rinse cycle". You have to report this and report it in writing. I'm horrified. really upsetting. inexcusable.

    I hope this is just something I am unfamilar with and not the unforgiveable breach I think it is. ((((Hugs))))).

    Don't let them get away with this.
  • Davita
    Davita Member Posts: 4
    #9
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    I would say something. This
    I would say something. This is your life in their hands. It is their job to make sure your doctors orders are carried out.
  • kayandok
    kayandok Member Posts: 1,202 Member
    #10
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    Absolutely not normal
    I've been off the boards for a week and your post got my blood going!! I hope by now you have already reported this. I think I would ask to go in and have another dose to make up for it.

    I have never experienced this in Japan, and have gotten all my chemo here. While in the STates for my surgeries, however, I noticed the nurses throwing away the IV solution when they were ready to end their shift. I was appalled but too out of it to say anything. I wish now, I would have spoken up. But chemo and saline solution are absolutely two different animals. You are given the exact amount of chemo for a reason.

    Keep us posted,
    Hugs,
    Kathleen:)
  • dorion
    dorion Member Posts: 183
    #11
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    grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
    I can't say anymore than these wonderful ladies already said. All I can say is I am on board with everyone here. REPORT it. How dare they!!!! It's not them fight for thier lives now is it????? I am really mad now!!!!!!

    Linda
  • Hissy_Fitz
    Hissy_Fitz Member Posts: 1,834
    #12
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    dorion said:

    grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
    I can't say anymore than these wonderful ladies already said. All I can say is I am on board with everyone here. REPORT it. How dare they!!!! It's not them fight for thier lives now is it????? I am really mad now!!!!!!

    Linda

    I reported it, but...........
    I went in for my regular lab check yesterday and asked if I could speak briefly to my doctor. The closest I got was his nurse. I told her what happened and she kept her cool, but I could tell she was upset. She confirmed that it should NOT have happened. She asked me to wait while she talked to the doctor and the director of nurses. (Allow me to digress a bit and explain that this is a HUGE practice, spread throught many cities in Texas, and at this particular center they have their own pharmacy, their own infusion room, etc.)

    The nursing director did not believe me, I could tell. She made remarks such as, "If that happened",etc. She clearly believed I was mistaken. She told me this guy is "an excellent nurse". No, he isn't. An excellent nurse does not commit malpractice and sabotage his patients' treatment. She also told me that it was not fair to the nurses to make them stay an extra hour. OK.....I get that, but how is it my problem? I have repeatedly asked for an earlier appointment, only to be told none are available.

    On the 28th I will see my doctor and I will try again to broach the issue. In the meantime, I told his nurse that I will not allow that RN to treat me again. I'm sure he wouldn't dare short my meds again, but who wants to let someone with an axe to grind within a hundred yards of them with sharp instruments in hand? Not me.
  • saundra
    saundra Member Posts: 1,370 Member
    #13
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    Hissy_Fitz said:

    I reported it, but...........
    I went in for my regular lab check yesterday and asked if I could speak briefly to my doctor. The closest I got was his nurse. I told her what happened and she kept her cool, but I could tell she was upset. She confirmed that it should NOT have happened. She asked me to wait while she talked to the doctor and the director of nurses. (Allow me to digress a bit and explain that this is a HUGE practice, spread throught many cities in Texas, and at this particular center they have their own pharmacy, their own infusion room, etc.)

    The nursing director did not believe me, I could tell. She made remarks such as, "If that happened",etc. She clearly believed I was mistaken. She told me this guy is "an excellent nurse". No, he isn't. An excellent nurse does not commit malpractice and sabotage his patients' treatment. She also told me that it was not fair to the nurses to make them stay an extra hour. OK.....I get that, but how is it my problem? I have repeatedly asked for an earlier appointment, only to be told none are available.

    On the 28th I will see my doctor and I will try again to broach the issue. In the meantime, I told his nurse that I will not allow that RN to treat me again. I'm sure he wouldn't dare short my meds again, but who wants to let someone with an axe to grind within a hundred yards of them with sharp instruments in hand? Not me.

    I think so too
    Keep us updated. I think we use the same practice and I have never been treated this way. They always run all the medicine in before a follow up with saline to make sure. I have had 25 infusions so far. Saundra
  • Hissy_Fitz
    Hissy_Fitz Member Posts: 1,834
    #14
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    saundra said:

    I think so too
    Keep us updated. I think we use the same practice and I have never been treated this way. They always run all the medicine in before a follow up with saline to make sure. I have had 25 infusions so far. Saundra

    Interesting....
    I am at the hospital as we speak, getting my blood transfusion. Turns out I know the nurse here and as we were the only ones in the room, I told her about my experience at T.O. She confessed to having some issues with the same nurse. Seems he doesn't want to follow hospital procedure sometimes, which tells me this guy has issues with following protocol in general. She (hospital nurse) said she spoke to the same Director of nurses that I did and was told, "He won't listen to me, either."
  • MIMI of 4
    MIMI of 4 Member Posts: 8
    #15
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    Hissy_Fitz said:

    Interesting....
    I am at the hospital as we speak, getting my blood transfusion. Turns out I know the nurse here and as we were the only ones in the room, I told her about my experience at T.O. She confessed to having some issues with the same nurse. Seems he doesn't want to follow hospital procedure sometimes, which tells me this guy has issues with following protocol in general. She (hospital nurse) said she spoke to the same Director of nurses that I did and was told, "He won't listen to me, either."

    Speaking UP!
    GOOD FOR YOU! You made the Director of Nurses aware and now follow through with your plan to speak with your MD about the situation. All concerned will know that you are taking an active part in your treatment. Never hesitate to ask questions and make your concerns known during any phase of your treatment. After all you are the one on the receiving end. You will feel much stronger after getting a transfusion, also great news about you CA-125. Keep us all informed.
  • steferis
    steferis Member Posts: 3
    #16
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    Hissy_Fitz said:

    Interesting....
    I am at the hospital as we speak, getting my blood transfusion. Turns out I know the nurse here and as we were the only ones in the room, I told her about my experience at T.O. She confessed to having some issues with the same nurse. Seems he doesn't want to follow hospital procedure sometimes, which tells me this guy has issues with following protocol in general. She (hospital nurse) said she spoke to the same Director of nurses that I did and was told, "He won't listen to me, either."

    It took 8 hours for my
    It took 8 hours for my infusions and I was usually the last one there. This is wrong.
  • MichaelaMarie
    MichaelaMarie Member Posts: 163
    #17
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    Hissy_Fitz said:

    Interesting....
    I am at the hospital as we speak, getting my blood transfusion. Turns out I know the nurse here and as we were the only ones in the room, I told her about my experience at T.O. She confessed to having some issues with the same nurse. Seems he doesn't want to follow hospital procedure sometimes, which tells me this guy has issues with following protocol in general. She (hospital nurse) said she spoke to the same Director of nurses that I did and was told, "He won't listen to me, either."

    Not normal chemotherapy treatment!
    I'm so glad that you reported that nurse! My chemo nurses all squeeze the last little bit of chemo into the tubing even after the beeper has went off that it is done. Did anyone else see a show on CNBC in the last couple of weeks about a pharmacist (I'm thinking he was in Atlanta, but not sure) that was dividing the chemo he ordered into three separate doses and mislabeling them. So, the patients were only receiving 1/3 of the dose that their oncologist had prescribed. Apparently some of the doctors were perplexed that their patients weren't losing their hair, having nausea, etc. Plus, so many were not responding to treatment at all. He had been doing this for years, and had become a millionaire many times over. Hundreds of patients were affected by his greed and evil. Obviously, so many died as a result, including a woman with ovarian cancer. This pharmacist was so calloused that in all of those years of causing the tortuous death of so many, there apparently was only one patient that he felt sadness for. He made the comment (with fake tears): "I really liked him." Right. But, he liked money more! Someone eventually got suspicious and he was arrested and found guilty. I realize that your situation isn't the same, but it sure did make me think of this story that I had just seen recently and still feel a sense of shock about. I'm happy that you are doing better. Keep up the good work. MM
  • Hissy_Fitz
    Hissy_Fitz Member Posts: 1,834
    #18
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    MichaelaMarie said:

    Not normal chemotherapy treatment!
    I'm so glad that you reported that nurse! My chemo nurses all squeeze the last little bit of chemo into the tubing even after the beeper has went off that it is done. Did anyone else see a show on CNBC in the last couple of weeks about a pharmacist (I'm thinking he was in Atlanta, but not sure) that was dividing the chemo he ordered into three separate doses and mislabeling them. So, the patients were only receiving 1/3 of the dose that their oncologist had prescribed. Apparently some of the doctors were perplexed that their patients weren't losing their hair, having nausea, etc. Plus, so many were not responding to treatment at all. He had been doing this for years, and had become a millionaire many times over. Hundreds of patients were affected by his greed and evil. Obviously, so many died as a result, including a woman with ovarian cancer. This pharmacist was so calloused that in all of those years of causing the tortuous death of so many, there apparently was only one patient that he felt sadness for. He made the comment (with fake tears): "I really liked him." Right. But, he liked money more! Someone eventually got suspicious and he was arrested and found guilty. I realize that your situation isn't the same, but it sure did make me think of this story that I had just seen recently and still feel a sense of shock about. I'm happy that you are doing better. Keep up the good work. MM

    Hijacking my own thread......sorry
    Michaela, I read your profile and saw that you are a 5+ year survivor, diagnosed at stage 3c. That is awesome! Your story gives the rest of us hope.

    Have you had a recurrance since your first round of treatment?

    How often do you get "checked", what types of tests/scans do they do?

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