sentinal node questions

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ms_independent
ms_independent Member Posts: 214
edited March 2014 in Breast Cancer #1
I get the whole purpose and basic procedure for the sentinal node sampling. My question has to do with the injection itself. My sister told me (2 years ago after her injection) that it was the most painful experience she has ever had---worse than childbirth with no epidural! Was her experience unique? I am scared to death. I am having both sides injected on the 14th. My biopsies were really painful (I don't numb very well). I was told that was "unusual". I am really stressing over this---any words of wisdom?
Thanks, El
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  • MyTurnNow
    MyTurnNow Member Posts: 2,686 Member
    #2
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    I agree with Tigger, it was
    I agree with Tigger, it was comparable to a bee sting. As I recall, I had 3 or 4 injections. But, again, it was not anywhere near as painful as childbirth. You'll do just fine, don't worry.
  • MAJW
    MAJW Member Posts: 2,510 Member
    #3
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    Injections.......
    I had 4 of them, and I have to say, they weren't bad at all.....they used a spray numbing agent before each one so it was just a little "sting"........try not to stress about them...and I didn't pee blue either........everyone reacts so differently......
    Hang in there
  • Cat64
    Cat64 Member Posts: 1,192
    #4
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    El
    I just had this done Monday. I too was so nervous about the injection, I read about it so I "thought" I would at least know what to expect. I was definetely NOT looking forward to it at all! It does feel like a bee sting at first, then a little burning. The last two were a little more uncomfortable but my husband watched and said it probably was because they used more of the fluid on the last two. It's not as bad as I thought it would be though. The tech was very gentle and it was over pretty quick. I wouldn't say it was the worse thing I'd ever experienced though! Don't stress...you'll do just fine!
    Hugz,
    Cathy
  • ms_independent
    ms_independent Member Posts: 214
    #5
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    thanks
    Thanks everybody. I feel a little better---I may call for an Rx of antianxiety med before the injections. I am being injected monday afternoon and surgery is tuesday am---anybody had a time span like that??
    Thanks again, El
  • MAJW
    MAJW Member Posts: 2,510 Member
    #6
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    ms_independent said:

    thanks
    Thanks everybody. I feel a little better---I may call for an Rx of antianxiety med before the injections. I am being injected monday afternoon and surgery is tuesday am---anybody had a time span like that??
    Thanks again, El

    Time span.....
    Mine was done about 45 minutes before my lumpectomy......I also had the wire needle localization done 1 1/2 hours before surgery.....
  • roseann4
    roseann4 Member Posts: 992 Member
    #7
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    MAJW said:

    Time span.....
    Mine was done about 45 minutes before my lumpectomy......I also had the wire needle localization done 1 1/2 hours before surgery.....

    I was under anesthesia
    That's odd. I was under during surgery. I didn't feel a thing.

    Roseann
  • tgf
    tgf Member Posts: 950 Member
    #8
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    MAJW said:

    Injections.......
    I had 4 of them, and I have to say, they weren't bad at all.....they used a spray numbing agent before each one so it was just a little "sting"........try not to stress about them...and I didn't pee blue either........everyone reacts so differently......
    Hang in there

    well .....
    I'm not sure what you are having. If it's a biopsy ... they will numb you ... but if it's the injection before surgery when they inject the radioactive stuff to "guide" the surgeon to the nodes ... then I'm afraid I sort of agree that it was painful. I was told they could not numb the area before injecting the radioactive stuff ... but I don't remember the reason they couldn't numb it. All I know is ... it hurt (!!!) ... but the doctor did tell me to breathe because that helps move the stuff to the nodes faster. And ... the INSTANT the needle was out they numbed me and I never felt a thing after that. The whole thing doesn't take long ... and you'll do fine.

    Check with your doctor to see if it's OK to take a xanax before the procedure ... that will help ... and ... don't forget to breathe!

    hugs.
    teena
  • crselby
    crselby Member Posts: 441 Member
    #9
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    roseann4 said:

    I was under anesthesia
    That's odd. I was under during surgery. I didn't feel a thing.

    Roseann

    good news
    Ladies, I live in the Phoenix area. In June I got the dx of DCIS. My surgeons did not think sentinal node was necessary. So I did not have to undergo that procedure.

    What I want you to know, however, is that on the FRONT PAGE of the "Arizona Republic" newspaper that serves the greater Phoenix area, right after my rads were done in September of this year, there was an article about a local radiation technician who had developed a technique to make the dye injection pain free. He first injects buffered lidocaine. Ta da. How simple is that? He said he can't understand why other rad people don't do it.

    I know that is what my rad onc injected in each of the 90 sites on my breast where a needle went through before he placed the catheters. Now, my sites were not the ultra sensitive nipple part of the breast, but I can tell you I didn't feel a thing.

    So, PLEASE ask your rad people to look into this!! It doesn't have to be painful!!!
    Connie
  • Whoknowz
    Whoknowz Member Posts: 82
    #10
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    Like a bee sting
    That part was the easiest of the prep for me. I just felt a brief sting and that was it. It came about 2 hours before my surgery, and I didn't pee blue either.
  • tigger99
    tigger99 Member Posts: 44
    #11
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    I was told that some people
    I was told that some people don't feel the technesium injection at all, others it feels like a bee sting. Mine felt like a bee sting, but not overly painful. When I told her it was stinging, she just injected it slowly so as to minimize the pain. Honestly, most bee stings and wasp stings hurt much worse than this injection, and it only hurt when being injected; once it was in, there was no pain at all.

    The blue dye injection was not painful in the slightest. Be forewarned that the blue dye eventually is processed by the kidneys and you'll be peeing Smurf blue for a day or so! I was glad the doctor warned me of that or I would have been worried!

    (edited to add:) My surgeon used a double technique: injecting the radioactive technesium as well as blue dye, as 2 separate injections. They then check the lymph nodes with a hand-held geiger counter for the presence of technesium, and visually see if any lymph nodes are turning blue from the uptake of the blue dye. She said sometimes a sentinel node absorbs one and not the other, and this is a double-safety check. Whatever the blue dye was that they injected, it definitely had me peeing blue for a day after it was filtered by my kidneys.
  • Sunrae
    Sunrae Member Posts: 808
    #12
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    Whoknowz said:

    Like a bee sting
    That part was the easiest of the prep for me. I just felt a brief sting and that was it. It came about 2 hours before my surgery, and I didn't pee blue either.

    Dear MS, I can't comment on
    Dear MS, I can't comment on the sentinal node as I haven't had that yet but I'll be asking my surgeon about that next week. When I had my first 2 biopsies it was so painful to me they had to stop. My BP went up too high and I felt faint. I told them I didn't get numb easy. I had a 3rd biospy done at a different place and told the Dr. before she started what had happened before. She said she couldn't understand me having any pain as they could pump gallons of lidocaine if I needed it. And this time I couldn't feel a thing. I think it depends on the drs and techs that do the procedures. SO anytime I need it I'm going to ask for gallons.
  • crselby
    crselby Member Posts: 441 Member
    #13
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    Sunrae said:

    Dear MS, I can't comment on
    Dear MS, I can't comment on the sentinal node as I haven't had that yet but I'll be asking my surgeon about that next week. When I had my first 2 biopsies it was so painful to me they had to stop. My BP went up too high and I felt faint. I told them I didn't get numb easy. I had a 3rd biospy done at a different place and told the Dr. before she started what had happened before. She said she couldn't understand me having any pain as they could pump gallons of lidocaine if I needed it. And this time I couldn't feel a thing. I think it depends on the drs and techs that do the procedures. SO anytime I need it I'm going to ask for gallons.

    a solution to the pain
    ms_independent, please read my post above. It doesn't have to hurt and there is someone in Phoenix who won an award for discovering that! Tell your docs! I'll see if I can find more details about that article and come back and post it here.
  • MyTurnNow
    MyTurnNow Member Posts: 2,686 Member
    #14
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    ms_independent said:

    thanks
    Thanks everybody. I feel a little better---I may call for an Rx of antianxiety med before the injections. I am being injected monday afternoon and surgery is tuesday am---anybody had a time span like that??
    Thanks again, El

    The wire needle localization
    The wire needle localization was done about 1-1/2 hours before the lumpectomy and the injections were done about 45 minutes before surgery. As with other treatments, different doctors have different procedures. Not surprising.
  • rainbow4
    rainbow4 Member Posts: 137
    #15
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    Lidocaine cream
    When I met with my surgeon's nurse before my lumpectomy w/sentinal node biopsy, she suggested that I might want to use Emla (or its generic version) in advance of the injections. I agreed, because I'd had severe pain with the needle biopsy. Emla is by prescription; I put on a pretty thick layer an hour before I left for the hospital and covered it with plastic wrap (which was the best/only laugh I had that day!). Even with the cream, the 4th injection was painful; the tech said I must not have spread it as thickly in that area.

    Good luck - I'm sure you can get through this.
    rainbow4
  • crselby
    crselby Member Posts: 441 Member
    #16
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    rainbow4 said:

    Lidocaine cream
    When I met with my surgeon's nurse before my lumpectomy w/sentinal node biopsy, she suggested that I might want to use Emla (or its generic version) in advance of the injections. I agreed, because I'd had severe pain with the needle biopsy. Emla is by prescription; I put on a pretty thick layer an hour before I left for the hospital and covered it with plastic wrap (which was the best/only laugh I had that day!). Even with the cream, the 4th injection was painful; the tech said I must not have spread it as thickly in that area.

    Good luck - I'm sure you can get through this.
    rainbow4

    Emla cream
    I'm such a ditz. It wasn't the buffered lidocaine this guy used, it was Emla cream (which I also used prior to the catheter insertions, sheesh). Can't even claim "chemo brain"! To avoid the pitfalls of infecting anyone's computers, I will not put the link here, but will paste part of the article.

    Good luck!
    ...........
    Crowe began enlisting surgeons and nurses to help him come up with a protocol. One of them was Dr. Katherine McCuaig, a general surgeon, who helped Crowe sift through even more journals in the hopes of finding an effective method for administering the cream. Finally, a little more than a year after that fortysomething patient launched him on his quest, they began testing it on patients in September 2007.

    They spent six months experimenting with various doses of the EMLA cream to find out which worked best to numb the areola.

    To compare results with those who received the cream, they called previous patients who had the procedure without an anesthetic and asked them to describe their pain to set a baseline.

    They finally hit on an effective dose and application, which now is a standard of care at Banner Baywood.

    Now, other hospitals are taking notice.

    Later this month, their research will be presented online at a national symposium on breast cancer in San Francisco. From there, Crowe and McCuaig expect it will become a standard for sentinel-node biopsies.

    "We're seeing considerably less patients feeling significant pain now than before," Crowe said. "We're at the point where 90 percent of our patients are not having pain."
  • Mama G
    Mama G Member Posts: 762
    #17
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    crselby said:

    Emla cream
    I'm such a ditz. It wasn't the buffered lidocaine this guy used, it was Emla cream (which I also used prior to the catheter insertions, sheesh). Can't even claim "chemo brain"! To avoid the pitfalls of infecting anyone's computers, I will not put the link here, but will paste part of the article.

    Good luck!
    ...........
    Crowe began enlisting surgeons and nurses to help him come up with a protocol. One of them was Dr. Katherine McCuaig, a general surgeon, who helped Crowe sift through even more journals in the hopes of finding an effective method for administering the cream. Finally, a little more than a year after that fortysomething patient launched him on his quest, they began testing it on patients in September 2007.

    They spent six months experimenting with various doses of the EMLA cream to find out which worked best to numb the areola.

    To compare results with those who received the cream, they called previous patients who had the procedure without an anesthetic and asked them to describe their pain to set a baseline.

    They finally hit on an effective dose and application, which now is a standard of care at Banner Baywood.

    Now, other hospitals are taking notice.

    Later this month, their research will be presented online at a national symposium on breast cancer in San Francisco. From there, Crowe and McCuaig expect it will become a standard for sentinel-node biopsies.

    "We're seeing considerably less patients feeling significant pain now than before," Crowe said. "We're at the point where 90 percent of our patients are not having pain."

    I wish I'd seen this before I had mine done
    by far the worst pain I've EVER had in my life. I even had crying spells for weeks afterward every time I thought about it. No one told me that I was NOT going to be given any numbing agent, and my sister was put out for hers. The surgery was a half hour later! Why couldn't they put me out??? Well I complained to the hospital, the surgeon, and everyone who would listen to me and now I understand they are using lidocaine. I hope all the horrendous pain was for that reason. NO ONE should have to go through that in this day and age!!!!! Make SURE you check this out first! Good luck! (p.s I'm in Vero Beach , Fl)
  • Wolfi
    Wolfi Member Posts: 425
    #18
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    Pain
    El,

    My biopsy was very painful, too. I guess I am also "unusual". My injections (4) for the node sampling weren't that bad. Like a bee sting. Try to breathe through it and try not to look when they are injecting you - it might reduce some of the stress that could make it uncomfortable.

    Good luck!
  • Calleen
    Calleen Member Posts: 411
    #19
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    Mama G said:

    I wish I'd seen this before I had mine done
    by far the worst pain I've EVER had in my life. I even had crying spells for weeks afterward every time I thought about it. No one told me that I was NOT going to be given any numbing agent, and my sister was put out for hers. The surgery was a half hour later! Why couldn't they put me out??? Well I complained to the hospital, the surgeon, and everyone who would listen to me and now I understand they are using lidocaine. I hope all the horrendous pain was for that reason. NO ONE should have to go through that in this day and age!!!!! Make SURE you check this out first! Good luck! (p.s I'm in Vero Beach , Fl)

    for me
    I went to the nucular lab of the hospitial and was given 4 radioactive injections right around the right nipple.. no numbing and it did feel like a sting for a second. Then i was put on a table where they scanned me. Next I waited for about an hour then went up to surgery. I was put under a general anistetic. The Doc then injected the blue dye and using the geiger found the sentinal node and removed 2 nodes. This was done 2 weeks before my bilateral masectomy.
  • ms_independent
    ms_independent Member Posts: 214
    #20
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    thanks
    Thanks everybody. I picked up my Emla cream on Friday. I feel so much less frightened knowing I can use that AND that it really helps.
    El
  • Mama G
    Mama G Member Posts: 762
    #21
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    ms_independent said:

    thanks
    Thanks everybody. I picked up my Emla cream on Friday. I feel so much less frightened knowing I can use that AND that it really helps.
    El

    Please let us know how it went...
    I'll be praying for you.

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