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Antioxidants

Anonymous user (not verified)

I have seen two long term studies which indicate that taking antioxidant vitamins and food supplements dramatically increase the risk of cancer. Also my onc advised against vitamins and supplements saying " consuming anything you don't actually need harms you". I took that to mean these supplements are NOT a way to prevent cancer. The author of the book  " A Short Guide To a Long Life" was just on fox and he said his book quotes several similar such long term studies conducted by the Govt. which show on average a person who takes antixidant supplements has an 18% increase in cancer risk. Who do we believe, guys who sell books or guys who sell vitamins?

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3294
Joined: May 2012

GKH,

I would say you are rightly confused.  I read a similiar story last week, based on a study somewhere in Europe. The conclusion was that antioxidants cause lung cancer tumors to become more aggressive.  It stated that it was not clear if antioxidants CAUSED cancer or tumors in the first place, and even stated that it is conceivable that antioxidants could both help prevent some cancers but then envigorate some tumors after they had begun. 

For each of these new "antioxidants are dangerous" reports there are ten older studies which suggest that they are beneficial.  I guzzled green tea during my whole treatment period, and my chemo worked great, but that is just my personal experience.  There was a substantial discussion about antioxidants here about a yerar or two ago. My oncologist has five Board certifications (includiong Hematology, Medical Oncology, and Internal Medicine), and I asked him about them.  He said "drink up !"  Most other doctors I have spoken to state that megavitimans, especially the fat-soluble ones, are more harmful than good.  I can remember when vitiman E was the rage, and supposedly would make people live forever; now, it is know to be harmful .  I take B-supplements, which give me noted energy boosts, and are not fat-soluble, and I also have to take Iron due to a history of anemia, but nothing else.  I listen to a Sirius radio MD show, which recommends regularly against megavitimans.  Also, most vitimans and supplements have absolutely no FDA research to back-up their claims; the bottles almost always state this on the side.

Coffee/caffine is even more confusing: One year the fad is that it will kill you fast, and then it becomes regarded as wonderful. Currently, it is in the "wonderful" cycle, and it apparantly is actually a safeguard against Parkinson's and neuromotor diseases.

The best a thoughtful person can do (my iopiniopn) is eat relatively healthy, with common sense, and know that there is no magic bullet out there.

My boss at work just came back from a Frat Reunion out of town this week. The guys are all about 43.  One was at the tennis court, and dropped dead instantly.  First responders were there in two minutes, and he never showed any sign of life.  Vigorous and athletic.

Jim Fix was a health guru and "healthy heart" author in the 70s and 80s, who wrote numerous "Run for a Healthy Heart" books (I bought one at the time).  

He fell dead of a heart attack, at the age of 52.   He was jogging at the time.

There are no magic bullets.

max

Anonymous user (not verified)

Green tea is a beverage, not a food supplement. Food supplements are generally things like calcium and other non-vitamin substances taken either in pill form or added to food. And no I am not confused. Several studies by US govt. show a significant statistical link between antioxidant vitamin supplements, especially vits A, D and beta carotene, and several types of cancer including prostate, lung and breast. Beta carotene use is statistically linked to heart disease. I saw no mention of lymphoma.

cheers

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3294
Joined: May 2012

You mentioned "not knowing who to believe," which I perhaps over-interpreted as "confusion."  It suggests at a minimum ambivalence and uncertainty.  I guess I taught formal logic in college too many years -- seeing the implicit in statements.

I know that green tea is a drink; I mentioned it because it is commonly touted for its "anti-oxidant, anti-cancer" properties.  Every bottle I buy states that.

For every academic study that links anti-oxidants to cancer, several others state that it has preventative, anti-cancer effects.  As I mentioned, this was debated in some detail here a year or so ago, and studies were contributed on line.

The following, which is more a summation of the literature than a study itself, from Harvard, is typical, and show that there is really no consensus either way on the subject.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/antioxidants/

 

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Anonymous user (not verified)

No conclusion either way on antioxidants as a whole. However there are  links between specific antioxidant supplements and certain health problems. I know what you mean about green tea labels. On the other hand orange juice claims vitamin C and milk claims calcium but they are foods not supplements. In my mind the big difference is supplements provide megadoses while foods have much lower concentrations.

i never taught logic but I know a woman who used to and she is one sharp cookie! My masters is in Physics + I have an MBA.

i guess the best course is to always be wary of what people say when they are trying to sell you something! Dr. Oz is a good example of what I call a quack. He is right up there with Richard Simmons.

we are having an ice storm tonight. Hope its warmer where you are.

take care.

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3294
Joined: May 2012

I live in the Northwest corner of SC, near the Smokey Mountains. Our weather is approximately the same as Asheville, NC, and this winter has been the coldest in a long time .  I went to the North Pole three times as a submariner, but cannot handle the cold any more now that I am older (57).  I spent about two years at Submarine Base Groton, CT, and recall one day that the windchill was 50 below zero.  I would die in that weather today.  On chemo, I was constantly freezing, and could hardly walk to the car to go to infusion (it was in the winter).  My wife had to get the car HOT before I started outside.

To your wellness,

max

 

Anonymous user (not verified)

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/04/22/dr-manny-are-your-dietary-supplements-killing/?intcmp=ob_homepage_health&intcmp=obnetwork

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3294
Joined: May 2012

GKH,

I could not agree more with what the good doc writes in the article you linked.  If all of the supplement companies when out of business, the world would be a better place (and healthier).  I listen to talk radio in the car, and all they play on the weekends are Infommercials about various miracle compounds. Fish oils seem to be the hottest current rage.  It will be turtle shell power next year perhaps, or the red seeds on Magnolia trees....  I guess if people will spend two dollars on a bottle of water, when it is no different that what comes out of the tap for less than a penny, they will buy anything.

Things are worse at the Prostate site; so many guys think dietary changes with "cure" their prostate cancer.  When I started having urinary tract problems I began studying saw palmetto, which has been sold as a fixer of male urinary issues for decades.  Virtually all academic studies conclude it is no better than placebo.  I wonder how many millions of dollars are spent on it annually ? I took it for a while early-on, and all it did for me was cause vomiting.

I could not open the link you included, so am re-attaching it here, in case anyone else had that issue.

Blessings,

max

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/04/22/dr-manny-are-your-dietary-supplements-killing/

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Anonymous user (not verified)

and good luck. I was never big on antioxidants but I used to take multivitamins and fish oils. Right now I take only CO-Q10 which my cardiologist recommended. Now I saw a new cardiologist ( purely preventative) and he says its a waste of my money. Who is to know? I just think everyone should avoid megadose vitamins, especially antioxidants. Just my opinion.

Anonymous user (not verified)

I was just lectured by group of ladies on the pure evil of bread. Its awful stuff sent by the devil to make us all fat and destroy our lives. Worst of all is white bread. That is of course unless it is Italian or French which is mostly all white. Those countries are cool so how could their bread not be? But bread made from wheat anywhere else in the world is evil and will give you celiac disease and make you chubby. Its much better to pay a lot more for wheat free bread made from potatoes or rice. But even those two sources of starch are bad for you which is why these ladies avoid both those two foods unless of course the rice is brown.

All joking aside, I am convinced all the misinformation propagated about food, vitamins, food supplements and yes, even water has come about by the hands of fast buck artists preying on peoples vulnerabilities. Not to say these afflictions are not very real for some people. Who would have ever believed someone would pay as much for a bottle of water as a beer and even more than for most softdrinks made from the same water? Who would have believed that such a large number of people would suddenly discover they are allergic to gluten? Its a sure path to the in crowd in some circles. And ads on TV with people dancing and playing on the beach to promote diabetic medicine? Diabetes is not supposed to be cool.

I hope some sense of reality will return to the food, vitamin and supplement scene.

 

"The secret to a long life is to eat absolutely anything you want, but only half of it"

George Burns

lindary's picture
lindary
Posts: 652
Joined: Mar 2015

I agree with you is tha tthere is so much mis-information on varrious foods, it is crazy. I do know some people that had physical problems and tried a gluten free diet for about a month. One person it did not help. Two others were definitely helped by eliminating gluten. Once gave it up because of the cost. I know of one person who is severly allergic to corn. They cannot have anything with corn or corn syrup whch eliminates many things in a grocery store. So I do believe that gluetin could cause problems for some people but they have to work with their dr to determine if they have it or not.  Avoiding glueten is not a cure-all for everyone. 

Heck, I went on a thing of eating carrots everyday with lunch. Mosst of my lunches were soft food so it gave me something to crunch on. I had been doing it for about a year when my dr did a blood test for food allergies. Nothing turned up except a sensitivity to carrots. I quit eating them for at least a month and then afterwards, only in modertions. The quote from George Burns is so right.

 

 

 

 

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3294
Joined: May 2012

GK,

I wonder if those "ladies" are aware that throughout most of human history, humans have survived primarily on bread ? And, throughout 99% of that history, most humans were profoundly thin.   Meat, of  course, is a modern luxury which many nations still do not much enjoy.  The New England writer-philosopher Thoreau was told in his day that he could not survive on vegtables, that he had to eat beef. He wondered if those same people were aware that the beef itself (ie, the cows) ate nothing but vegtable matter ?

I gave up on hoping to see common sense in people long ago, or even basic knowledge.  Over half of Americans cannot name their two state senators. Close to half do not know who the vice President currently is.  My academic training was in Philosophy, and many say society is moving into a "New Barbarism" -- an age of extreme crudeness.   Cell phones and reality TV will render many incapable of language soon; many will just be able to utter grunting noises, at the current rate.

 

max

Jeff148's picture
Jeff148
Posts: 183
Joined: Apr 2014

ARG!!

Rocquie's picture
Rocquie
Posts: 831
Joined: Mar 2013

Speaking of drug commercials. . .

A few years ago, my Mother who was 81 at the time (my dad was  83) told me they were watching TV. A commercial for Alieve came on which showed a woman hobbling around, barely able to walk because her knee hurt so bad. Next, it showed her out happily dancing. Later there was a Viagra commercial which showed a happy couple out dancing. She told my Dad, "I'm going to get myself some Alieve and you some Viagra, and we're going dancing"!

Enjoy this life!

Rocquie

 

 

lindary's picture
lindary
Posts: 652
Joined: Mar 2015

LOL

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3294
Joined: May 2012

My favorites are the constipation meds. After....eh... they are joyous, spreading good cheer.

lindary's picture
lindary
Posts: 652
Joined: Mar 2015

Of course they are joyous, spreading good cheer. They have to do something because their butt hurts so much after those meds to their job they can't sit.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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