Liver resection criteria?

My wife is undergoing chemo for Stage IV crc. significant involvement of liver (roughly 50%). has had no surgery to date and oncologist mentioned the possibility of surgery after chemo. Apparently a small fraction of people are candidates for surgery.

I am just begining to research the surgical option and would like to know if anyone here can shed light on the criteria which makes a patient eligible for post-chemo surgery.

we will also take it up with her oncologist

thanks,

peter

Comments

  • pscott1
    pscott1 Member Posts: 207 Member
    Hi Peter,
    I was diagnosed with colon cancer in 1/2011 and found out in 2/2011 that I had mets to my liver. 30+ lesions across both lobes of liver. Have an upcoming MRI in March but last MRI showed 15 lesions in right lobe only. My Onc has always told me that if there are only 1 or 2 lesions that I would be a candidate for liver resection but not with multiple lesions. I am still hopeful that one day I will only have 1 or 2 lesions and I will get that resection. His stand has been that there has to be enough healthy liver there in order to cut off the other portion. Good luck with whatever your options end up being.

    Take care & my best to your wife,

    Pam
  • mom_2_3
    mom_2_3 Member Posts: 953 Member
    Peter
    I am so sorry to hear of your wife's diagnosis.

    In answer to your question, my opinion based on everything I have read is that different surgeons/facilities have different criterion for liver resections. I have read posts from people here and on other boards commenting that the consulted surgeon wouldn't do surgery because of extrahepatic disease, bilobar disease, multiple liver mets, location of particular mets and volume of liver mets compared to total volume of the liver.

    I have found many of those posts interesting as when I was diagnosed I had 5 liver mets across both lobes of my liver. So according to some of those surgeons, I would not have been operable. I sought treatment, however, at a facility that I have found to be exceptional in its care and its assertiveness in treating Stage IV colon cancer.

    In particular, my own doctor is pre-eminent in the colon cancer field and she has a video here describing a treatment protocol of which she has been a pioneer. Video here. (Thanks Phil for that link. I'm going to use it whenever I can!)

    The particular therapy that this doctor pioneered is called HAI or Hepatic Arterial Infusion pump therapy whereby a hockey-sized pump is implanted into the abdomen and routed directly into the hepatic artery. This allows for the profusion of chemo directly to the liver with no side effects to the rest of the body. This treatment protocol is used in both pre-surgical as well as adjuvant settings. If you sit through the attached link you will see that the treatment can be very effective in helping a patient achieve operability as well as helping to prevent future recurrence (as I chose to do).

    I have met countless patients in my oncologist's office who have had this treatment successfully (achieving long-term remission). I have met people who have described their livers as "swiss cheese" and "completely covered" with liver mets, only to have gone on to remission and hopefully permanent cure. One gentleman I know is having his 2 1/2 year scan next month. Doctors in his hometown of Cincy, OH told him to forget about ever having surgery on his liver and to get his affairs in order. He chose to ignore their advice and instead had an HAI pump implanted February 2009. He became operable in August 2009 when he had his liver resection and has been in remission since.

    Another man I met had a liver met right on an artery which prevented resection. He had HAI therapy for 6 months during which time the met shrunk enough to allow for a resection.

    I met another person who had lung involvement simulataneous with liver mets but he was able to have the liver resection done first and next month will have 2 lung mets removed.

    So for all the reasons I have heard someone was not resectable, I have met or experienced personally those that have had surgery despite those reasons.

    When you speak with your wife's oncologist remember that he is an oncologist, not a surgeon and while he may be familiar with the standard protocols at that particular facility, he is not the last word on the matter. Many hospitals employ a board comprised of oncologist, surgeons and IR who discuss each case and can help determine direction for treatment. If I were you I would make sure I obtained an opinion from a hepatabiliary surgeon (not general surgeon) that practices at an NCI hospital. If you don't like the opinion you receive, look for another.

    I will leave you with one last patient story who is treated where I am treated. This young woman had her colon resection (despite extensive liver involvement and had the pump implanted). In the 2 years subsequent to that surgery she has had 2 liver resections (they did each side, one at a time) and then 3 RFAs on the liver. She is currently in remission. My gut feeling is that this woman would not have received the same aggressiveness with respect to her care at another facility. The doctors have never given up on this woman.

    In summary, ask your wife's doctor about HAI, RFA, portal vein embolization (where they cut the hepatic vein to make one side of the liver grow). I'm sure there are other protocols but there are the ones I think I would be most interested in.

    If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me here and I can give you my email address. I reside in NJ.

    Amy
  • here4lfe
    here4lfe Member Posts: 306 Member
    Same Boat
    My wife is fighting Stage 4 also. Mom_2_3 has pretty much covered it. My wife's team consist of the oncologist, liver surgeon, interventional radiologist, and other specialist as required. I will say that one of the considerations will include your wife's overall physical capability, such as age and other complicating factors.

    Good Luck and God Bless. My wife's treatments are on my profile.

    Best
  • peterz54
    peterz54 Member Posts: 341
    mom_2_3 said:

    Peter
    I am so sorry to hear of your wife's diagnosis.

    In answer to your question, my opinion based on everything I have read is that different surgeons/facilities have different criterion for liver resections. I have read posts from people here and on other boards commenting that the consulted surgeon wouldn't do surgery because of extrahepatic disease, bilobar disease, multiple liver mets, location of particular mets and volume of liver mets compared to total volume of the liver.

    I have found many of those posts interesting as when I was diagnosed I had 5 liver mets across both lobes of my liver. So according to some of those surgeons, I would not have been operable. I sought treatment, however, at a facility that I have found to be exceptional in its care and its assertiveness in treating Stage IV colon cancer.

    In particular, my own doctor is pre-eminent in the colon cancer field and she has a video here describing a treatment protocol of which she has been a pioneer. Video here. (Thanks Phil for that link. I'm going to use it whenever I can!)

    The particular therapy that this doctor pioneered is called HAI or Hepatic Arterial Infusion pump therapy whereby a hockey-sized pump is implanted into the abdomen and routed directly into the hepatic artery. This allows for the profusion of chemo directly to the liver with no side effects to the rest of the body. This treatment protocol is used in both pre-surgical as well as adjuvant settings. If you sit through the attached link you will see that the treatment can be very effective in helping a patient achieve operability as well as helping to prevent future recurrence (as I chose to do).

    I have met countless patients in my oncologist's office who have had this treatment successfully (achieving long-term remission). I have met people who have described their livers as "swiss cheese" and "completely covered" with liver mets, only to have gone on to remission and hopefully permanent cure. One gentleman I know is having his 2 1/2 year scan next month. Doctors in his hometown of Cincy, OH told him to forget about ever having surgery on his liver and to get his affairs in order. He chose to ignore their advice and instead had an HAI pump implanted February 2009. He became operable in August 2009 when he had his liver resection and has been in remission since.

    Another man I met had a liver met right on an artery which prevented resection. He had HAI therapy for 6 months during which time the met shrunk enough to allow for a resection.

    I met another person who had lung involvement simulataneous with liver mets but he was able to have the liver resection done first and next month will have 2 lung mets removed.

    So for all the reasons I have heard someone was not resectable, I have met or experienced personally those that have had surgery despite those reasons.

    When you speak with your wife's oncologist remember that he is an oncologist, not a surgeon and while he may be familiar with the standard protocols at that particular facility, he is not the last word on the matter. Many hospitals employ a board comprised of oncologist, surgeons and IR who discuss each case and can help determine direction for treatment. If I were you I would make sure I obtained an opinion from a hepatabiliary surgeon (not general surgeon) that practices at an NCI hospital. If you don't like the opinion you receive, look for another.

    I will leave you with one last patient story who is treated where I am treated. This young woman had her colon resection (despite extensive liver involvement and had the pump implanted). In the 2 years subsequent to that surgery she has had 2 liver resections (they did each side, one at a time) and then 3 RFAs on the liver. She is currently in remission. My gut feeling is that this woman would not have received the same aggressiveness with respect to her care at another facility. The doctors have never given up on this woman.

    In summary, ask your wife's doctor about HAI, RFA, portal vein embolization (where they cut the hepatic vein to make one side of the liver grow). I'm sure there are other protocols but there are the ones I think I would be most interested in.

    If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me here and I can give you my email address. I reside in NJ.

    Amy

    surgical options and more
    thanks Amy for providing your insight. much appreciated. you have given me a lot to follow up on and to think about and to share with my wife. It gives me hope...

    peter
  • xbarjoe
    xbarjoe Member Posts: 7
    Criteria for Surgery
    Peter,

    Go to website NCCN, National Comprehensive Cancer Network. On the web site are the clinical oncologist recommended pratices. They contain a ton of medical information for all types of cancers. These are the standard protocals that oncologists use. They contain guidelines for liver ablation with colon cancer. I learned a lot from them. They are very technical. They are excellent for generating questions for the oncologist. You have to sign in but then you can download and print the information. It's like a Power Point presentation.

    In January the liver surgeon was going to remove my liver mets at the same time I was having my bowel resection but decided against after seeing too many small mets. If they can not be certain to get all the mets they don't want to do anything. After responding well to FOLFOX w/ Avastin I went back to get the liver mets removed.

    Hope this helps. God bless.
    Ron
  • pscott1
    pscott1 Member Posts: 207 Member
    mom_2_3 said:

    Peter
    I am so sorry to hear of your wife's diagnosis.

    In answer to your question, my opinion based on everything I have read is that different surgeons/facilities have different criterion for liver resections. I have read posts from people here and on other boards commenting that the consulted surgeon wouldn't do surgery because of extrahepatic disease, bilobar disease, multiple liver mets, location of particular mets and volume of liver mets compared to total volume of the liver.

    I have found many of those posts interesting as when I was diagnosed I had 5 liver mets across both lobes of my liver. So according to some of those surgeons, I would not have been operable. I sought treatment, however, at a facility that I have found to be exceptional in its care and its assertiveness in treating Stage IV colon cancer.

    In particular, my own doctor is pre-eminent in the colon cancer field and she has a video here describing a treatment protocol of which she has been a pioneer. Video here. (Thanks Phil for that link. I'm going to use it whenever I can!)

    The particular therapy that this doctor pioneered is called HAI or Hepatic Arterial Infusion pump therapy whereby a hockey-sized pump is implanted into the abdomen and routed directly into the hepatic artery. This allows for the profusion of chemo directly to the liver with no side effects to the rest of the body. This treatment protocol is used in both pre-surgical as well as adjuvant settings. If you sit through the attached link you will see that the treatment can be very effective in helping a patient achieve operability as well as helping to prevent future recurrence (as I chose to do).

    I have met countless patients in my oncologist's office who have had this treatment successfully (achieving long-term remission). I have met people who have described their livers as "swiss cheese" and "completely covered" with liver mets, only to have gone on to remission and hopefully permanent cure. One gentleman I know is having his 2 1/2 year scan next month. Doctors in his hometown of Cincy, OH told him to forget about ever having surgery on his liver and to get his affairs in order. He chose to ignore their advice and instead had an HAI pump implanted February 2009. He became operable in August 2009 when he had his liver resection and has been in remission since.

    Another man I met had a liver met right on an artery which prevented resection. He had HAI therapy for 6 months during which time the met shrunk enough to allow for a resection.

    I met another person who had lung involvement simulataneous with liver mets but he was able to have the liver resection done first and next month will have 2 lung mets removed.

    So for all the reasons I have heard someone was not resectable, I have met or experienced personally those that have had surgery despite those reasons.

    When you speak with your wife's oncologist remember that he is an oncologist, not a surgeon and while he may be familiar with the standard protocols at that particular facility, he is not the last word on the matter. Many hospitals employ a board comprised of oncologist, surgeons and IR who discuss each case and can help determine direction for treatment. If I were you I would make sure I obtained an opinion from a hepatabiliary surgeon (not general surgeon) that practices at an NCI hospital. If you don't like the opinion you receive, look for another.

    I will leave you with one last patient story who is treated where I am treated. This young woman had her colon resection (despite extensive liver involvement and had the pump implanted). In the 2 years subsequent to that surgery she has had 2 liver resections (they did each side, one at a time) and then 3 RFAs on the liver. She is currently in remission. My gut feeling is that this woman would not have received the same aggressiveness with respect to her care at another facility. The doctors have never given up on this woman.

    In summary, ask your wife's doctor about HAI, RFA, portal vein embolization (where they cut the hepatic vein to make one side of the liver grow). I'm sure there are other protocols but there are the ones I think I would be most interested in.

    If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me here and I can give you my email address. I reside in NJ.

    Amy

    mom_2_3,
    Thanks for attaching that video....gives me renewed hope! Guess what I'll be discussing with my Oncologist in March after I finish up my chemo break?! :) Many thanks for sharing!

    Hugs,

    Pam
  • peterz54
    peterz54 Member Posts: 341
    xbarjoe said:

    Criteria for Surgery
    Peter,

    Go to website NCCN, National Comprehensive Cancer Network. On the web site are the clinical oncologist recommended pratices. They contain a ton of medical information for all types of cancers. These are the standard protocals that oncologists use. They contain guidelines for liver ablation with colon cancer. I learned a lot from them. They are very technical. They are excellent for generating questions for the oncologist. You have to sign in but then you can download and print the information. It's like a Power Point presentation.

    In January the liver surgeon was going to remove my liver mets at the same time I was having my bowel resection but decided against after seeing too many small mets. If they can not be certain to get all the mets they don't want to do anything. After responding well to FOLFOX w/ Avastin I went back to get the liver mets removed.

    Hope this helps. God bless.
    Ron

    NCCN
    Thanks Ron, I will check out NCCN asap
  • pluckey
    pluckey Member Posts: 484 Member
    Please Google "Memorial
    Please Google "Memorial Sloan Ketterin" Hospital, then search for Dr. Yuman Fong.
    In his profile, there is a video clip of him giving a lecture at a conference that talks to the improved stats of making people be considered "resectable"

    So 10 or so years ago, durgoens may have only taken patients with no more than 4 tumors or 20% liver involvement, but today, they can handle a lot more tumor burden.

    Another think the surgeons will consider is the overall health of the patient - if they are too thin, too unstable, chemo just too much for them, other issues- heart or pulmonary- they may not want to do surgery.....they will look at the whole person to consider factors.

    So, find the best one or 2 surgeons, get their opinions/criteria and WORK toward that to gt resectable. Whatever it takes!

    Good Luck

    Peggy