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"Action in the face of uncertainty" by Dave deBronkart

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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A Good Read From e-patient Dave deBronkart:
"Science seeks certainty. The problem in medicine is, the body is complex and our knowledge is incomplete. People who want certainty – physicians or patients – are kidding themselves. And if we expect docs to be perfect, it’s a setup for dysfunction.

Sometimes I hear of patients who believe their physicians dissed a proposed or experimental treatment that’s not understood. (I’m not endorsing wacky treatments here – I’m only talking about uncertainty.) Yet, we’ve always had remedies whose actions aren’t understood; we just know they work. Even aspirin was used for a century without understanding it. And here’s a line I read today:

“Should I refuse my dinner because I don’t understand the digestive system?”

It’s by Oliver Heaviside (1850-1925), about whom Wikipedia says, “Although at odds with the scientific establishment for most of his life, Heaviside changed the face of mathematics and science for years to come.”

The quote is in the Pulitzer Prize winning book The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer, by Siddhartha Mukherjee MD. Emperor is cancer’s “whodunnit” story, centuries of efforts to understand it and treat it. And not in that order."

Full article can be found here

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Buckwirth
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The Emperor of All Maladies is available as a Kindle edition.

You do not need a Kindle to read these. Amazon has made software available to read Kindle books on PCs, Macs, iPhones, iPads, Android devices and more. Plus, when using the Kindle readers, you can start the book on one device (say your home computer) and continue it right where you left off on another (your iPhone while waiting in the doctors office).

Books are often available the same day as hardcover editions, and about 1/2 the price (the Kindle edition of this book is $9.99, the hardcover is $16.65).

Back to Emperor: This was a GREAT read! You will learn more about cancer and how the thinking about this disease has changed through time than from any other book.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I posted this a while back.
LINK

I liked this comment "The problem in medicine is, the body is complex and our knowledge is incomplete. People who want certainty – physicians or patients – are kidding themselves. And if we expect docs to be perfect, it’s a setup for dysfunction."
It really rings true I believe

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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Our bodies are a complex system, all working together, much like global climate. Making a small change in one part, however beneficial, can have unintended consequences in another.

And just because something sounds like it makes sense, does not mean that it is actually the right thing to do.

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Kimo Sabe
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What great stimulating posts. I have my reading list updated. I have wondered about a reading list on the subject of cancer from the micro to the macro, and including psychosocial, cultural, and spiritual aspects. Maybe such a list exists somewhere. Below is quote from Marshall McLuhan in 1964 discussing the media. It touches close to some of the issues above.

"Literate man, once having accepted an analytic technology of fragmentation, is not nearly so accessible to cosmic patterns as tribal man. He prefers separateness and compartmented spaces, rather than the open cosmos. He becomes less inclined to accept his body as a model of the universe, or to see his house-or any other of the media of communication, for that matter-as a ritual extension of his body.

Once men have adopted the visual dynamic of the phonetic alphabet, they begin to lose the tribal man's obsession with cosmic order and ritual as recurrent in the physical organs and their social extension. Indifference to the cosmic, however, fosters intense concentration on minute segments and specialist tasks, which is the unique strength of Western man. For the specialist is one who never makes small mistakes while moving toward the grand fallacy."   Marshall McLuhan, Understanding The Media 1964                        

Norm

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Kathleen808
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Norm,
That is an incredible quote from Marshall McLuhan. It really makes me think as a teacher and a wife trying to be a good partner to my husband as he fights this disease.
Also, living in Hawaii we have options other than just the Western way of thinking and understanding our bodies and the world we live in.
Thank you for sharing.

Aloha,
Kathleen

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Kathleen808's picture
Kathleen808
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Thanks Buckwirth. I just downloaded it to my iPad. Thanks for the link, it made it easy.

Aloha,
Kathleen

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pete43lost_at_sea
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Assuming the magic bullet exists.
It therefore exists outside current medical treatment system.
Doctors and scientists are looking at the problem bottomup approach. Ha ha!

My approach is top down brute force, referring to the math technique to solve calculus equations.
Maybe their are a few magic bullets and they all help

At present I believe the magic bullet is within. You need one for your brain mind and one for your heart the sole.

Uncertainty is awesome, it implies hope. Where none exists if you have been given only 10 seconds to live, well I can hold my breathe for 3 minutes so that's another amount of time. I know full well this is not crc's normal preferred way of dieing. If I have a choice I will deny this bastaard disease it's last battle and I will die peacefully with love at my choosing. That's my intention and it's clearly understood.

Crc may win the war but I will have the last laugh. Did you know laughter is healing?
Another Ian gawler magic bullet. But in my case I don't think crc has a chance in hell. I get enormous joy knowing it's been fried with radio, poisoned with chemo, attacked by my killer t cells, cut to pieces and stored in a bottle of formaldehyde for eternity. Any of its children left floating around inside have got nowhere safe to hide.

Positive actions I have faith in are my magic bullets, the beauty of uncertainty for me reflects the essence of life. Every time shiit happens to me or my family I honestly say that's life. Being lost at sea, getting crc, getting malaria, living in a dump, or finding my dead dad when I was 14.

Uncertainty in life thats for sure, even in death as my faith is weak.
The only certainty is the fact my body Will die one day, until that point uncertainty is the essence of life and ironically even after death uncertainty.

Hugs,
Pete

epatientdave
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Joined: Jul 2011

Once again my Google Alert brings me a heartwarming post here. Thanks again, Phil.

Kathleen808's picture
Kathleen808
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Joined: Jan 2009

Dave,
It is great to have you join us.

Aloha,
Kathleen

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Joined: May 2005

I always enjoy your posts/comments on FB and wherever else I read them. They're always interesting.
Thanks for checking in over here...
-p

Kathleen808's picture
Kathleen808
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Fabulous! Thanks Phil.

Aloha,
Kathleen

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

I will get the book. I may not pick up on hints or suggestions the first time but after a dozen or so repetitions, I will SOMETIMES actually follow them!

Love this discussion. I have many questions about cancer in general. Would anyone be interested in discussing this topic? For example, I am puzzled about cancer's capacity to form blood vessels. Do cells of the same type that are not cancerous have the capacity to do that--other than immune system cells, that is? If not how does cancer develop that capacity? Sounds almost like an intelligence is sensing a need and providing a solution but I really don't think cancer has a brain of its own. Does it?

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Buckwirth
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Here is the Wiki entry on angiogenesis in tumors:

Wikipedia Angiogenesis

Cancer is basically a cell with bad DNA. A lot is made of the failure of the immune response, but the real culprit is the failure of DNA repair (which, as I understand it, is different from the immune response). Every cell contains all of the DNA needed to replicate you in your entirety, so a faulty cell can access all of the available signals to feed itself.

Recently, we discussed malaria (Pete got it) and I looked it up. The Malaria virus avoids the immune response by hiding inside the cell wall. As it moves through the blood, the immune system sees only a healthy cell, with no detection of what is inside. In the same way, cancer cells are seen by the immune system no differently than regular, healthy cells (in other words, self).

Most of the current immune therapy protocols being studied are designed to send a viral load into the tumor cell, and let the virus trigger an immune response. The hope is, your body reacts to and kills the virus, plus the infected cell.

It is a complicated subject, and the immune system itself can be a hazard to your health (and can get cancer. See Lymphoma and Leukemia). There are a couple of people on this forum who seem to have a decent understanding, and on the Colon Talk forum there is at least one member, Galen, who seems to have an in-depth knowledge. I like to think I understand it, and can explain some concepts, but mostly I think I have a lot to learn here.

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

I read through the Wiki article and found it interesting that they have not been very successful in stimulating new blood vessel formation to treat heart disease. Must not know all of the details of how the process works. Also, that exercise can stimulate the growth of new blood vessels--would enjoy hearing the particulars of that as well.

I wonder why the cancerous cells don't produce PKG? This whole thing is fascinating to me--how our body can turn into an enemy and our defense system doesn't even recognize it! I will talk with Gaelen about my questions. Would love to hear some more explanations about all of this.

Have been following the vaccine/immune therapy developments. Some of them sound very hopeful. I guess Congress just approved another $2billion for cancer research so maybe some of these things can be developed without too many years passing.

Enjoy your extra hour's sleep tonight!

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pete43lost_at_sea
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heard this before but as you asked and i saw it here goes my understanding.
remarkable success with vegan diets and unblocking clogged arteries.
see page`128 chart 5.4 the china syndrome. for details .

hugs,
pete

ps the vegan diet i am struggling to follow also prevents recurrence and most importantly mitagates the risk of secondary cancers due to chemo / radio imho.

hugs,
pete

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pete43lost_at_sea
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just sharing what i accept based on my research.
from super immunity by joel fuhrman page 62..
the changes over time that lead to cancer in a cell can be summarised
more green vegetables --less dna methylation----lower risk of cancer

or expressed as

less green vegetables--more dna methylation---higher risk of cancer
i accept joel's research and reasoning i have read the book and it gives me peace.
not wanting to argue its merits, just i ate a raw brussel sprout today and it felt good.
the goal for my dietary intervention is cruciferous

the magic bullet we want is not in the laboratory, its already been found and exists in the grocery shop imho. we can all express our beliefs and what they are based on here. i respect everyones right to form their own opinions and voice them here. support or disagreement is welcome.

hugs,
pete

ps yes i am a tree hugging, vegan hippie. the only thing missing is the drugs.
chemo does not count alas! the morphine did have its highs though!!!!!!!!!!!

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

You said that you welcome disagreement. OK, this is what goes through my mind. Eating vegetables is so much healthier for you--why then do vegetarians have a higher colon cancer rate than non-vegetarians? Why are so many on these sites so confused as to why they got cancer when they ate so healthily? Why do I not have a polyp when I have eaten a lot of meat--home-grown, however--and my father had colon cancer and he doesn't like meat--ate mostly chicken.

Exercise cut your cancer risk by a huge amount. Why then are so many people who post on these cancer sites runners and very active people when others like myself and my mother and many other relatives who are not very active not getting cancer? I see way too many contradictions to all of these maxims to be comfortable in saying that if I do X and Y I will be fine. I personally think we have a lot more investigating into the causes of cancer before we can relax and think that we have the answers.

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Buckwirth
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I'll start with a link to a science based review of The China Study (not syndrome):

Science Based Medicine and the China Study

Now, onto your questions, each of which is valid:

why then do vegetarians have a higher colon cancer rate than non-vegetarians?

Not sure that it is a higher rate, but there is no question that even a vegan can get CRC. Depending on your source, the lifetime risk for getting CRC is between 5% and 7%, and the data seems to show that a diet high in fiber and low in red/processed meat can lower that risk by about 30%. What that actually means is that your lifetime risk would go from 7% to 5%. Nice reduction, but in real life terms I went from a 93% chance that I would not get CRC to a 95% chance I would not get it. If I lived my whole life this way, I would not get out of bed in the morning.

Exercise cut your cancer risk by a huge amount. Why then are so many people who post on these cancer sites runners and very active people when others like myself and my mother and many other relatives who are not very active not getting cancer?

Pete can be hard to understand, but what he means is that exercise as adjuvant therapy cuts the risk of CRC recurrence by 50%. Making up numbers here, but say a stage 2 CRC patient has a recurrence risk of 30%. If they just do a reasonable amount of physical exercise every week, they can cut that down to a 15% risk of recurrence, a number that is probably equal to the benefit gained by adjuvant chemotherapy.

Not all data is equal. Recently, in a discussion of chiropractic, someone posted that a Pubmed study showed chiropractic to be better than placebo for back pain. That may be true, but the real question is how it does against current standard of care (if I remember correctly, that would be about equal). So, if I can take a months worth of muscle relaxants, at a Wal-Mart cost of $4, or go to a chiropractor for six sessions, at a $40 a pop, expecting the same outcome, which would I choose?

Each of the individual stories is problematic as well. Pete believes that his supplements kept his blood counts up during chemo. That may be so, of course it could also be that he is an otherwise healthy 44 year old, and statistically healthy 44 year old's handle Folfox pretty well. I know I took none of the supplements Pete did, am about 10 years older, have had significantly more chemo treatments and my blood counts have always stayed in the normal range. I happen to love hot dogs, so maybe it was the nitrates... (that is a joke folks, I do not believe nitrates helped my blood count). Think of it this way. If you met a 100 year old smoker, who claimed that smoking is what allowed him to reach that advanced age, would you take up smoking?

Eating healthy, maintaining a good weight, getting just the right amount of sun exposure all seem to reduce the risk of CRC, but they do not eliminate it. Some of those things seem to reduce the risk of recurrence for those who have had curative surgery, and given that those risks are naturally higher, the benefit is also naturally greater. Concurrently, none of those things will make it go away, and none are a substitute for early detection and surgery. There is no panacea or magic bullet that will cure mCRC.

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

Had fun a little bit ago doing some Googling about our digestive system. Tried to get comparisons between herbivore, carnivore and human digestive systems and there were so many ideological sites that I really had to do some sifting to come up with some unbiased descriptions. Some even went so far as to state that humans have an alkaline digestive system similar to herbivores. Now then tell me why billions are spent on antACIDS, for pete's sake!!

Anyhow my statement about vegetarians and colon cancer came from here:

http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2009/03/11/ajcn.2009.26736M.abstract?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=key&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

the longest web address I have ever seen!

As far as exercise, there are lots of articles coming out that state that exercise can prevent colon cancer as well, which is why I brought up all of the people on these sites that get cancer in spite of their abundant exercise. One could go so far as to hypothesize that since extreme exercise such as running causes blood vessel growth, it could contribute to the growth of the vascular system for tumors. Who knows?!

If I am going for personal stories, I will follow my own family. My grandfather and his siblings all died at around 90 years old. They smoked, drank, chewed tobacco, and were as ornery as all get out, not to mention extremely sedentary the last 20-30 years of their lives. And my grandmother used bacon grease as her "oil" all the time. I really need to develop some new habits because the only one I have down of all those is the ornery part ;-). It's too bad that tobacco is so darned expensive--I don't know if I can afford to begin those habits even if they are good for my health!

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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Your link, now live

Big study, and carries some weight. It is interesting that both groups had lower incidence than the general population, and that the veggies had higher incidence. For the purpose of the study, vegetarian and vegan were differentiated, but vegan was counted in the vegetarian number. It also noted that as a group, the vegetarians ate more cheese and drank more milk, so those could be contributing factors.

This study, and others before it with conflicting data, will need to be reviewed before we can say with any certainty that a vegetarian diet raises risk of CRC. It certainly flies in the face of what many on this board believe.


"Some even went so far as to state that humans have an alkaline digestive system similar to herbivores. Now then tell me why billions are spent on antACIDS, for pete's sake!!" 

This is a great example of people trying to make a complicated subject simple to further their own agendas.

The human digestive system is alkaline.

The human digestive system is acidic.

Which statement is true? Both. John23 can personally attest to the acidic nature of his digestive system, as can most who have experienced an ileostomy. Our stomachs are highly acidic, in fact to a point that the comparison to battery acid is a fair one. The pancreas works at the entrance to the ileum to begin neutralizing that acid, and the colon, the most alkaline part of our body, takes care of what acid remains, as well as processing fluids to keep us hydrated (among other things).

It does make statements like this one a bit odd for us CRC survivors:

"Cancer also thrives in an acidic environment, and can’t live in an alkaline environment."*

*cancure.org

If the above statement were true, stomach cancer, and cancer of the ileum, should be the most common in humans. Along with that, CRC should be exceedingly rare.

On a side note, we take antacids to control the pain caused when the acid flows in the wrong direction, up into our esophagus.

"As far as exercise, there are lots of articles coming out that state that exercise can prevent colon cancer..." 

The articles talk about risk, and they talk about risk in a way to make it seem more important than it is. Exercising and keeping a healthy weight might reduce your overall risk by 30%, but they only reduce your real risk by 2 points. If you are an magazine or newspaper editor, which number are you going to use? The bigger one is more sensational, and therefore is the one that gets reported.

Here is another way of thinking about it: (all numbers here are for example purposes only, none of them are real)

In the town of Washingtonshire the local paper reported that the murder rate increased by 100% in the last decade. This was followed by an editorial calling for an increase in funding to the local constabulary to stop this epidemic.

How many murders were there the previous decade? One. How many this last decade? Two. An increase of 100%. The story that there was one additional murder in the last ten years is not very exciting and won't sell papers. The story about the 100% increase will sell lots of papers.

The same is true in health reporting. Always look in an article for real numbers, not percentages, as the percentages are just there to scare you, to goad you into taking some personal action, or to vote for something against your own interest.

Btw, tobacco may be expensive, but there is usually a cheap way to get all of the benefits for a fraction of the cost: Almost every town has at least one bar that defies the anti-smoking laws. Just patronize that bar for one drink a night and you will experience all the healthful benefits of smoking a pack a day!

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

"It also noted that as a group, the vegetarians ate more cheese and drank more milk, so those could be contributing factors"

Now Blake, you need to be careful making comments like that or everyone will stop eating all dairy products, too! I just read that Scandinavians are the healthiest group of Europeans and they eat a lot of dairy as well as more meat.

I learn so much from you people. I did not know that our digestive systems changed from acid to alkaline. Very interesting. I do understand about the numbers thing. Have encountered it many times.

Thanks for the suggestion about the tobacco--but is one drink much cheaper than a pack of cigarettes? I know, I can just invite my relatives over who smoke and make them smoke in the house. It would keep the healthy effect around longer!

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pete43lost_at_sea
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really interesting replies blake with regard to some point and caveats.
vegans, veggies, carnivores do they eat fish, chicken, red meat.
so many variables, and we all have a challenges...............

i enjoyed reading all the discussion and the studies cited.

the kids and wife had steamed veg and tuna. i had a raw green salad with watercress number 2 in the super immunity book to fight cancer. i did have a mouthful of tuna just for quality assurance purposes.!!!!!!!!!!!

hugs,
pete

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pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3908
Joined: Nov 2010

i wish i could answer your questions, but alas, i don't want to defend my beliefs.
but i had this little excerpt in my clipboard for the broccoli sprouts post.
it works here as well. just for my age and stage the vegan lifestyle seems like a reasonable choice. i read my books, goto seminars, retreats, cancer support groups and really put in most of my waking time into cancer preventition for just little old me.
its not proof but my neighbour said i look great, that i look 10 years younger, maybe its the weight loss, the diet, the meditation. who knows , i don't. i went on the ian gawler retreat, basically just thought i would pickup their strategies. i was doing 95% of it anyway. i love the taste of chicken less than life. thats where my mind and practise is at.

i am only a year out from surgery, i got many quarterly checks to go over the next 4 years, actually 12, my surgeon said he wanted to watch me for 7 years because he fears current chemo/rad practices have pushed the tail out to 7 years not 5.

i have the answers to my cancer that give me peace, so i accept and relax, i can meditate and just focus on my lifestyle. i read the china study review, so its got some issues. the big point of difference between china study and the current us cancer advices is over a little protein, like 100 grams a day reduction. how many oncs stress loosing all the fat, none that i have met, but my naturopath's did. onc' don't push lifestyle intervention, maybe they don't want to give away their power.

most people don't make lifestyle changes to improve their odds of survival when faced with life threatening disease cydny omeara "changing habits, changing lives". i am just grateful that for whatever quirk of fate, that now i have the strength and motivation and have completely changed mine.

my approach is based on following that i have gone 95% , why not go all the way for 5 years and then shoot for 100.

I am sharing where i am at, not seeking to change anyone. all the info is on the web, we are all different and own our own choices.

hugs,
pete

[Sulforaphane--a possible agent in prevention and therapy of cancer].
[Article in Polish]
Tomczyk J, Olejnik A.
Source
Katedra Biotechnologii i Mikrobiologii Żywności, Uniwersytet Przyrodniczy w Poznaniu, ul. Wojska Polskiego 48, 60-627 Poznań. atomczyk@up.poznan.pl
Abstract
Sulforaphane (SFN) is an isothiocyanate that is naturally present in cruciferous vegetables, with high concentration in broccoli. The results of the most recent studies indicate multi-targeted sulforaphane actions which may contribute to prevention and therapy of cancer. Protective properties of sulforaphane have been observed in every stage of carcinogenesis. The mechanism of protection against the initiation of carcinogenesis by SFN includes modulation of phase I and II xenobiotic-metabolizing enzymes, as well as direct blocking of specific binding sites of carcinogens with the DNA molecule. As a result, sulforaphane inhibits DNA adduct formation, thus reducing the risk of mutations. Further sulforaphane activity is targeted at cancer cells and prevents their expansion due to regulation of proliferation and induction of differentiation or apoptosis. In vitro studies using various types of cancer cells have revealed the ability of SFN to arrest the cell cycle, particularly in G2/M, while SFN at higher concentration is shown to activate apoptotic pathways. The possible SFN anticancer effect in the progression stage of carcinogenesis has been proved by only a few studies, which provide evidence for its antiangiogenic and antimetastatic influence. Additionally, SFN exhibits anti-inflammatory and antibacterial effects relevant to cancer prevention. Apart from the biological activity of SFN, this review also focuses on its bioavailability and tissue distribution as well as individuals' genetic predispositions as significant factors influencing the potential efficiency of chemoprevention using this compound.

PMID: 21160094 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

I think it is fine, Pete, what you are doing. That is your choice and I am fine with that. My father, who had stage III colon cancer with numerous positive nodes, chose to follow his onc's advice, had surgery, radiation and a few months of chemo, probably 5FU since it was 2001 and he had minimal side effects. After his treatment was over, he went back to life as usual, eating lots of potato chips, Hostess desserts, very few vegetables, etc. etc. He is 83 now and was just out helping me with the cows at 9:00 last night. That was his choice and it worked well for him. He also eats very little barbecued food, never has. He got colon cancer. We eat a lot of barbecued food and have for many years. Just had my first colonoscopy, no polyps and I have a father who had colon cancer.

My concern is whether your sort of eating is healthy in general, but particularly for those in active treatment for cancer. The diet that you are eating would be very hard on my husband's digestive system. He can tell what "sets" well in his stomach and it is things like meat, cheese, eggs--fried, not scrambled, etc. Most things made of grains do not set well. The one time he threw up was after eating a ginger capsule.

Also, I read a few years ago about a couple that were vegans and fed their baby only raw vegetables--the baby died and they were found guilty of a crime. The study done in England showing that vegetarians had higher rates of colon cancer than non-vegetarians is another concern for me.

I have tried to be objective about this, and to me, to understand correctly how we should be eating, we need to know how our body is built, what it is designed to digest. So, I did some reading. Herbivores seem to have one of two kinds of digestive systems. The ruminants such as cows have very large, often multiple stomachs and very long intestines. Other herbivores such as horses have smaller stomachs like humans and their intestines are shorter in relation to their bodies BUT they have huge cecums which is where most of their digestion takes place. Our cecum, otherwise known as an appendix, is quite small and gets removed if it gets enlarged!

Teeth are another issue. We have canine incisors, herbivores do not. Herbivores have teeth that are huge and flat. I know, I have looked in many horses' and cows' mouths. When a horse gets ridges in its molars, the vet comes out and "floats" his teeth, files off the ridges. We humans have ridges in our molars naturally. The dentist has never mentioned floating my teeth!

I'm not saying that all of our food is healthy. We do many things that I believe are not healthy regarding food, from the way we grow it to the way we process and cook it. An example. Animals can get something called grass tetany. It is a deficiency of magnesium in their food. It comes from too much nitrogen and moisture in the soil and occurs mostly in fields that have been heavily fertilized with commercial fertilizer. It can kill the cow in a matter of days. Does that sound like we are doing a healthy thing with our food? No. We grow most of our food with lots of nitrogen and water because it increases yields and shortens the time needed to grow the food. Are our foods deficient in nutrients because of it? You decide--and I am talking vegetables here.

Some people grow food organically, they think. They will use "natural" things to fertilize their gardens, such as manure or grass clippings. The thing they don't think about is that many of the animals whose manure they are using were eating food that was heavily sprayed with herbicides and or pesticides, and the grass clippings very possibly the same, as well as being heavily fertilized, so they might be quite deficient in micro nutrients.

Anyhow, just some ramblings from someone who has too much time to think on her hands!

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pete43lost_at_sea
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i am aware of the pitfalls, risks of the vegan life and the benefits.

we elarn on the road so to speak, i am learning lots.

just had watercress salad last night and watercress juice, not for the faint hearted.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/63314.php

goto race and in peaceful way to yoga.

so glad your dad is doing well, if the things i am trying get me post the 5 year marked disease free, scan next week then i will look back at how good i feel each and everyday
so far.

the goal is health friendly diet and life style with a super aggressive approach. after all our crc is just as aggressive if we give it a chance and i have given mine plenty of chances.

i know not veg are great and miss trace elements, thats why i have spirulina, gods nature food.

hugs,
pete

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

I didn't know what spirulina was so had to Google it. When I did, I remembered an article in a magazine I read at the hospital one day about blue green algae. So I did another Google search and found the same topic but in a different magazine. Am giving you a link because I think you might want to read it. The theory is just a theory at this point, but do you want to take the chance? Here's the link:

http://unhmagazine.unh.edu/sp09/dangerous_waters_2.html

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

to both parts:

Dangerous Waters Part 1 of 2

Dangerous Waters Part 2 of 2

Here is the WebMD Blue-Green Algae Page

Quote:

“Blue-green algae” describes a large and diverse group of simple, plant-like organisms found in salt water and some large fresh water lakes.

Apparently not all "blue-green algae" are the same organism.

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

Yes, I wasn't sure about that. Hopefully spirulina is different than the algae they are looking at in regard to ALS. They were thinking it might be the cause of some Parkinson's and was it Alzheimer's? I have had family members and friends die from ALS so it is a special concern of mine. A cousin just died a couple of years ago from it--don't think he was even 50. And since his father died of it as well, they are thinking it is probably a genetic thing and want to try to prevent the same from happening to his children. That is why the article caught my eye in the first place. Wouldn't it be something if a disease that horrific had such a simple cause?

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3908
Joined: Nov 2010

its one of my treasured supplements and i have lots and lots of studies
that justify its cost.

and why i believe its great for my health.

i'll read the blue green links tomorrow.
i only give myself about 20 min a day, here.

i am so busy meditating.!!!! thats kind of a joke kind, but it is true.

hugs,
pete

buckeye2
Posts: 428
Joined: Jul 2011

I downloaded and am reading the book now. It is surprisingly an easy read for a complex topic. Thanks for the recommendation. Lisa

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 1292
Joined: Oct 2010

Heaviside's challenge (should I refuse...) is a great reality check for medicine that has spiraled out of control on pharma gatekeeping with restraints on trade, competition and speech, as well as the expensive FDA phase III tests only and NDA parochialism on old consumer items.

Thanks, for the terrific post Phil.

Kathleen808's picture
Kathleen808
Posts: 2361
Joined: Jan 2009

Phil,
Thanks again. I have downloaded the book and it is incredible. Right now I am amazed that the "war on cancer" isn't much, much farther along. More comments as I continue to read.

Aloha,
Kathleen

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