UPDATE: (I FOUND HER) cancer markers

John_32
John_32 Member Posts: 71
edited March 2014 in Breast Cancer #1
I have posted previously about my wife, but I have a question this time about my mother, who was also diagnosed with breast cancer last year (stage IV). She was on tamoxifen until it seemed to stop working, and then she was put on arimidex, and her cancer markers have been going steadily down--but now they are on the rise again. She hasn't had a chance to meet with her doctor yet and I was wondering if this is common and not something to be too concerned about, and if anyone knows if there are other drugs than tamoxifen and arimidex that others take, though apparently she is too advanced in the disease to benefit from chemotherapy. Any input is helpful, thanks.
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Comments

  • m_azingrace
    m_azingrace Member Posts: 399
    Hello, John
    All I know about cancer markers is what my own oncologist told me. He called them "fickle". Markers can be influenced by a number of variables. If the patient has been sick, with a cold for instance, the markers might be up but that may not mean that the cancer is more active. In my case, even though my cancer is stage IV, the markers are always normal, so if we were to depend soley on them, we would not have an accurate picture of where I am with the cancer. He said they are a useful tool, but only in assessing the "big picture" which includes results from various other tests in addition to the markers. I hope this helps? Hugs and blessings to you, your wife and your mom.
  • shy violet
    shy violet Member Posts: 167
    Glad you shared your concerns
    I also wondered about tumor markers when my mom had ovarian cancer...I worried and worried. When I was confirmed with BC the oncs didnt want to run the panels for the markers after the base reading...said it doesn't always give a true pic of what is going on. I would like to say I don't know your mom's current status, but we will pray for your whole family...it must be so difficult getting put through this and being a support to your wife and mom at the same time. God bless you for being there and helping...anything you need please just let us know...love, shy
  • jo jo
    jo jo Member Posts: 1,175
    Hi John nice to see you
    Hi John nice to see you posting again.
    Sorry i dont have any answers to your questions im just sorry to hear this about your mom.
  • CypressCynthia
    CypressCynthia Member Posts: 4,014 Member
    I don't believe that one set
    I don't believe that one set of markers is considered that significant, but if they keep trending up it is worrisome. More scans may be needed.

    FYI, there is another hormone therapy available that my onc discussed with me. He said he would use it next if the aromatase inhibitors stopped working (I am also Stage 4 on arimidex and zometa): faslodex.

    Faslodex is given by injection and it works a little differently from the other hormone therapies. It actually destroys estrogen receptors (and I believe this is permanent). I don't know much else about it, but I wanted to let you know that there is another option, so don't give up hope!
  • survives
    survives Member Posts: 254 Member

    I don't believe that one set
    I don't believe that one set of markers is considered that significant, but if they keep trending up it is worrisome. More scans may be needed.

    FYI, there is another hormone therapy available that my onc discussed with me. He said he would use it next if the aromatase inhibitors stopped working (I am also Stage 4 on arimidex and zometa): faslodex.

    Faslodex is given by injection and it works a little differently from the other hormone therapies. It actually destroys estrogen receptors (and I believe this is permanent). I don't know much else about it, but I wanted to let you know that there is another option, so don't give up hope!

    Also,
    sometimes when cells are dying, they "flare", and since you've just changed drugs, it could be that that is what is going on. Hoping that this is what's going on with your mother, and sending gentle thought.

    survives
  • cahjah75
    cahjah75 Member Posts: 2,631
    John sorry
    to hear your mother's markers are not responding to treatment. I'm still in treatment and don't know what drs do other than try another cocktail. I'll keep your family in my thoughts and prayers.
    {[hugs}} Char
  • New Flower
    New Flower Member Posts: 4,294
    survives said:

    Also,
    sometimes when cells are dying, they "flare", and since you've just changed drugs, it could be that that is what is going on. Hoping that this is what's going on with your mother, and sending gentle thought.

    survives

    John
    sorry for your mom. How is your wife doing?
    Cynthia thanks for info.
  • carkris
    carkris Member Posts: 4,553 Member
    cahjah75 said:

    John sorry
    to hear your mother's markers are not responding to treatment. I'm still in treatment and don't know what drs do other than try another cocktail. I'll keep your family in my thoughts and prayers.
    {[hugs}} Char

    glad you are posting, but I
    glad you are posting, but I dont ask the number, and am told they are good Makes me think I should ask.
  • John_32
    John_32 Member Posts: 71
    carkris said:

    glad you are posting, but I
    glad you are posting, but I dont ask the number, and am told they are good Makes me think I should ask.

    Thank you all, and I will
    Thank you all, and I will pass on the information about Faslodex also. My parents have lost their jobs, and now their home and health insurance at the same time, so this news about the cancer markers comes at the worst possible time. She thought it might have been because she just started taking the generic version of Arimidex, because it's cheaper, but the doctor says there is really no difference between the brand and the generic.

    Someone also asked about my wife (triple negative stage 0 DCIS in Jan. 2009... stage 4 brain metastasis April 2010). She went to her parent's home during a psychotic reaction to the steroids she was on, and her parents have basically locked her up there and prohibited me from seeing her. She has been increasingly debilitated and dependent and can't really assert any kind of independence from them. Occasionally she has been able to sneak a brief email or phone call to me and that's it--but they scream at her if they catch her doing this. Her parents won't communicate with me at all through any means. The last time I heard from her was a month ago, and she sounded very weak, and said she had had a massive seizure and was in the hospital for more than 2 weeks; but then her mother caught her on the phone, began shrieking at her like a lunatic, and disconnected the line. I didn't even have a chance to ask any details about her condition-I just knew from her mother's screams that the line would go dead in a matter of seconds and I would only have enough time to tell her how much I loved her. I am very alarmed that I have not heard anything for a month, and I have been writing, and calling day after day but no one will speak to me or respond to me. So I am going to go up to Canada in the coming week, which is the week of our second wedding anniversary, and show up on their doorstep and try and see my wife. Her prognosis was extremely poor, the median survival rate is 4-6 months, and we're going into month 6, so I just hope she is even well enough to recognize me, if i am even able to get inside her parents' home.
  • jo jo
    jo jo Member Posts: 1,175
    John_32 said:

    Thank you all, and I will
    Thank you all, and I will pass on the information about Faslodex also. My parents have lost their jobs, and now their home and health insurance at the same time, so this news about the cancer markers comes at the worst possible time. She thought it might have been because she just started taking the generic version of Arimidex, because it's cheaper, but the doctor says there is really no difference between the brand and the generic.

    Someone also asked about my wife (triple negative stage 0 DCIS in Jan. 2009... stage 4 brain metastasis April 2010). She went to her parent's home during a psychotic reaction to the steroids she was on, and her parents have basically locked her up there and prohibited me from seeing her. She has been increasingly debilitated and dependent and can't really assert any kind of independence from them. Occasionally she has been able to sneak a brief email or phone call to me and that's it--but they scream at her if they catch her doing this. Her parents won't communicate with me at all through any means. The last time I heard from her was a month ago, and she sounded very weak, and said she had had a massive seizure and was in the hospital for more than 2 weeks; but then her mother caught her on the phone, began shrieking at her like a lunatic, and disconnected the line. I didn't even have a chance to ask any details about her condition-I just knew from her mother's screams that the line would go dead in a matter of seconds and I would only have enough time to tell her how much I loved her. I am very alarmed that I have not heard anything for a month, and I have been writing, and calling day after day but no one will speak to me or respond to me. So I am going to go up to Canada in the coming week, which is the week of our second wedding anniversary, and show up on their doorstep and try and see my wife. Her prognosis was extremely poor, the median survival rate is 4-6 months, and we're going into month 6, so I just hope she is even well enough to recognize me, if i am even able to get inside her parents' home.

    WOW John im just blown away
    WOW John im just blown away by your post...speechless!
    Are her parents INSANE...how can they keep your wife from you like that??? I hope she is ok! That is so sad John...my heart goes out to you. Im also so sorry to hear about your parents...wow John your dealing with so much right now! Keep us updated on how your doin!
  • sausageroll
    sausageroll Member Posts: 415
    jo jo said:

    WOW John im just blown away
    WOW John im just blown away by your post...speechless!
    Are her parents INSANE...how can they keep your wife from you like that??? I hope she is ok! That is so sad John...my heart goes out to you. Im also so sorry to hear about your parents...wow John your dealing with so much right now! Keep us updated on how your doin!

    Oh my!
    John, my heart breaks for you. You are going through so much right now. All I can say, is you are in my thoughts!
  • meena1
    meena1 Member Posts: 1,003

    Oh my!
    John, my heart breaks for you. You are going through so much right now. All I can say, is you are in my thoughts!

    Wow, this is a sad situation
    Wow, this is a sad situation you are in. I hope you can see your wife. However, as far as your mom is concerned, i think she should talk to her doctor as soon as possible, since she is stage 4, i do not see this as a good sign. I am also stage 4, but i am on chemo at this time. I am assuming that your mom's cancer has become resistant to chemo, and i know that surgery is not an option. I am not sure what else there is to do. God bless you and your family
  • carkris
    carkris Member Posts: 4,553 Member
    meena1 said:

    Wow, this is a sad situation
    Wow, this is a sad situation you are in. I hope you can see your wife. However, as far as your mom is concerned, i think she should talk to her doctor as soon as possible, since she is stage 4, i do not see this as a good sign. I am also stage 4, but i am on chemo at this time. I am assuming that your mom's cancer has become resistant to chemo, and i know that surgery is not an option. I am not sure what else there is to do. God bless you and your family

    John is that even legal?

    John is that even legal?
  • MyTurnNow
    MyTurnNow Member Posts: 2,686 Member
    John_32 said:

    Thank you all, and I will
    Thank you all, and I will pass on the information about Faslodex also. My parents have lost their jobs, and now their home and health insurance at the same time, so this news about the cancer markers comes at the worst possible time. She thought it might have been because she just started taking the generic version of Arimidex, because it's cheaper, but the doctor says there is really no difference between the brand and the generic.

    Someone also asked about my wife (triple negative stage 0 DCIS in Jan. 2009... stage 4 brain metastasis April 2010). She went to her parent's home during a psychotic reaction to the steroids she was on, and her parents have basically locked her up there and prohibited me from seeing her. She has been increasingly debilitated and dependent and can't really assert any kind of independence from them. Occasionally she has been able to sneak a brief email or phone call to me and that's it--but they scream at her if they catch her doing this. Her parents won't communicate with me at all through any means. The last time I heard from her was a month ago, and she sounded very weak, and said she had had a massive seizure and was in the hospital for more than 2 weeks; but then her mother caught her on the phone, began shrieking at her like a lunatic, and disconnected the line. I didn't even have a chance to ask any details about her condition-I just knew from her mother's screams that the line would go dead in a matter of seconds and I would only have enough time to tell her how much I loved her. I am very alarmed that I have not heard anything for a month, and I have been writing, and calling day after day but no one will speak to me or respond to me. So I am going to go up to Canada in the coming week, which is the week of our second wedding anniversary, and show up on their doorstep and try and see my wife. Her prognosis was extremely poor, the median survival rate is 4-6 months, and we're going into month 6, so I just hope she is even well enough to recognize me, if i am even able to get inside her parents' home.

    John, I'm shocked and
    John, I'm shocked and speechless!! I am hoping that you get to see your wife and soon. I can't believe that her parents are keeping you from her. She needs you and I'm hoping your trip allows that to happen. I'll be thinking of you both!! Good luck!
  • John_32
    John_32 Member Posts: 71
    MyTurnNow said:

    John, I'm shocked and
    John, I'm shocked and speechless!! I am hoping that you get to see your wife and soon. I can't believe that her parents are keeping you from her. She needs you and I'm hoping your trip allows that to happen. I'll be thinking of you both!! Good luck!

    Is this legal? I guess it is
    Is this legal? I guess it is even though I feel what they are doing to me is unbelievably criminal. It is only legal because no legislature on earth ever imagined anyone would ever treat someone like this. Because we lost our jobs and she got diagnosed with cancer immediately after we were married I think her parents believe, in some sort of filipino voodoo way, that I am somehow responsible for her being sick. That is the only way I can even begin to rationalize where their hostility toward me comes from--some very screwed up psychotic worldview. Really, I don't even think going to their house will have any effect, they won't even open the door. It's gotten to the point now where I will call their house for a half-hour straight and they will just ignore it and not answer, like I am incapable of even provoking ANY reaction in them, like I do not exist to them. For all I know my wife could even be in a hospice or hospital-if she was actually in their home and not completely debilitated, I know she would contact me. This is just absolute torture precisely because I cannot think of anything I can do, for they refuse to communicate in any way, and even if they did they are basically incapable of rational thought at this point. Between this situation and my mother getting denied medicaid for her cancer treatments today I am just beyond disgusted.
  • carriesoup
    carriesoup Member Posts: 144
    John_32 said:

    Thank you all, and I will
    Thank you all, and I will pass on the information about Faslodex also. My parents have lost their jobs, and now their home and health insurance at the same time, so this news about the cancer markers comes at the worst possible time. She thought it might have been because she just started taking the generic version of Arimidex, because it's cheaper, but the doctor says there is really no difference between the brand and the generic.

    Someone also asked about my wife (triple negative stage 0 DCIS in Jan. 2009... stage 4 brain metastasis April 2010). She went to her parent's home during a psychotic reaction to the steroids she was on, and her parents have basically locked her up there and prohibited me from seeing her. She has been increasingly debilitated and dependent and can't really assert any kind of independence from them. Occasionally she has been able to sneak a brief email or phone call to me and that's it--but they scream at her if they catch her doing this. Her parents won't communicate with me at all through any means. The last time I heard from her was a month ago, and she sounded very weak, and said she had had a massive seizure and was in the hospital for more than 2 weeks; but then her mother caught her on the phone, began shrieking at her like a lunatic, and disconnected the line. I didn't even have a chance to ask any details about her condition-I just knew from her mother's screams that the line would go dead in a matter of seconds and I would only have enough time to tell her how much I loved her. I am very alarmed that I have not heard anything for a month, and I have been writing, and calling day after day but no one will speak to me or respond to me. So I am going to go up to Canada in the coming week, which is the week of our second wedding anniversary, and show up on their doorstep and try and see my wife. Her prognosis was extremely poor, the median survival rate is 4-6 months, and we're going into month 6, so I just hope she is even well enough to recognize me, if i am even able to get inside her parents' home.

    wow
    i'm so sorry that her parents are acting like that! how can they not only legally do that, but do they have no heart at all?!? like jo jo said, that IS insane!

    my heart goes out to you.
  • Rague
    Rague Member Posts: 3,653 Member
    John_32 said:

    Is this legal? I guess it is
    Is this legal? I guess it is even though I feel what they are doing to me is unbelievably criminal. It is only legal because no legislature on earth ever imagined anyone would ever treat someone like this. Because we lost our jobs and she got diagnosed with cancer immediately after we were married I think her parents believe, in some sort of filipino voodoo way, that I am somehow responsible for her being sick. That is the only way I can even begin to rationalize where their hostility toward me comes from--some very screwed up psychotic worldview. Really, I don't even think going to their house will have any effect, they won't even open the door. It's gotten to the point now where I will call their house for a half-hour straight and they will just ignore it and not answer, like I am incapable of even provoking ANY reaction in them, like I do not exist to them. For all I know my wife could even be in a hospice or hospital-if she was actually in their home and not completely debilitated, I know she would contact me. This is just absolute torture precisely because I cannot think of anything I can do, for they refuse to communicate in any way, and even if they did they are basically incapable of rational thought at this point. Between this situation and my mother getting denied medicaid for her cancer treatments today I am just beyond disgusted.

    I'm so Sorry John!
    Try calling the local police, explaining to them your wife's health issues, what her parents are doing, that it's been a month since you've heard anything and ask for a 'Health and Welfare Check' be done.

    You might also contact Social Services in the area. Many have a similar program to CPS (Child Protective Services) that can get involved and at least ensure she getting medical care and is as 'OK' as she can be. Even IF they (her sire and dam) have had her declared 'incompetent', the state can still be involved to ensure her health and safety. There are laws that address issues like this - unfortunately things far worse are done.

    When you try to see her, PLEASE stop at the police office and request an officer to accompany you for your own safety. He/She will also be able to see the behavior of the sire and dam at the same time. What they may have bben able to do in PI is not always tolerated in the States or Canada.

    Try talking with the Navigator at whatever site she is getting her care - they might be able to offer assistance or at least give you some places to contact.

    Prayers for all of you and big 'Granma' hugs over the internet!

    Susan
  • John_32
    John_32 Member Posts: 71

    wow
    i'm so sorry that her parents are acting like that! how can they not only legally do that, but do they have no heart at all?!? like jo jo said, that IS insane!

    my heart goes out to you.

    UPDATE: I FOUND HER
    I have spent the last hour calling every single hospital in the Toronto region. Finally, after numerous dead ends, I spoke my wife's name into another hospital's the automated patient service and was actually connected to a room. The line was picked up and her mother's voice was on the other end of the phone. I was shocked. Just to confirm, I asked, "Mrs. so&so?" She answered, "yes." I said, almost in disbelief, "this is john." And she hung up. I called the hospital again, the nurse's station and began to explain the situation, but the nurse cut me off and then put me on hold for about ten minutes. When she got back on the line, she said "I cannot give you any information." And I said, "But I am her husband." She repeated, "I have no information." She was about to hang up and then I asked for her name. She refused to provide her name. I said under the Ontario Family Act I, as her husband, am next of kin and entitled to information, at the very least to know the nurse's name. She again refused to provide her name, and hung up. I called again, she hung up on me. I called again, another nurse gave me the same routine, treating me like a criminal and hung up. I called again, this time asking up front for the nurse's name "in case we are disconnected" and the woman refused and hung up. THIS IS F***ING INSANE. Her parents, clearly, as soon as they realized I had tracked down my wife, informed the nurses that I was not to have any contact with her or get any information, and since they are such massive liars, probably even making all kinds of insane accusations against me just to ensure I do not get any information. AND I HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT EVER SHOW LOVE AND CONCERN FOR MY WIFE AND TAKEN CARE OF HER SINCE THE MOMENT SHE WAS DIAGNOSED IN JANUARY 2009. The nurse said also she can't verify I am who I say I am, or verify that the woman whose name I have given as my wife is a patient there (even though that is OBVIOUS). So she couldn't verify what her own name was, or whether the person I was asking about was even a patient, or whether I was the person I was saying I was. Well, what can we verify then? I asked her. That the sun rose this morning? That the sky is blue??? Is this a hospital I am calling, or you can't verify that???

    I am relieved that my wife is actually alive and that I have tracked her down despite all of her parents' obfuscation and lies. But the fact that she is hospitalized again is deeply troubling to me, or the thought that she has been determined incompetent and that her parent's have gotten power of attorney, even though that is MY RIGHT as her husband.

    I am definitely going up there now that she is in a public hospital and I have legal access to her as her husband (I hope!). I have to find some way of getting an expedited copy of the marriage certificate as PROOF so these people at the hospital cannot treat me like this.

    thanks for listening... just to had to write this down somewhere.
  • Angie2U
    Angie2U Member Posts: 2,991

    Hello, John
    All I know about cancer markers is what my own oncologist told me. He called them "fickle". Markers can be influenced by a number of variables. If the patient has been sick, with a cold for instance, the markers might be up but that may not mean that the cancer is more active. In my case, even though my cancer is stage IV, the markers are always normal, so if we were to depend soley on them, we would not have an accurate picture of where I am with the cancer. He said they are a useful tool, but only in assessing the "big picture" which includes results from various other tests in addition to the markers. I hope this helps? Hugs and blessings to you, your wife and your mom.

    My oncologist doesn't
    My oncologist doesn't believe in cancer markers. He says there are so many variables that can make them go up or down, that they either scare a patient unnecessarily or lead them to believing they are fine. I know many oncologists don't use them. Good luck!
  • Rague
    Rague Member Posts: 3,653 Member
    John_32 said:

    UPDATE: I FOUND HER
    I have spent the last hour calling every single hospital in the Toronto region. Finally, after numerous dead ends, I spoke my wife's name into another hospital's the automated patient service and was actually connected to a room. The line was picked up and her mother's voice was on the other end of the phone. I was shocked. Just to confirm, I asked, "Mrs. so&so?" She answered, "yes." I said, almost in disbelief, "this is john." And she hung up. I called the hospital again, the nurse's station and began to explain the situation, but the nurse cut me off and then put me on hold for about ten minutes. When she got back on the line, she said "I cannot give you any information." And I said, "But I am her husband." She repeated, "I have no information." She was about to hang up and then I asked for her name. She refused to provide her name. I said under the Ontario Family Act I, as her husband, am next of kin and entitled to information, at the very least to know the nurse's name. She again refused to provide her name, and hung up. I called again, she hung up on me. I called again, another nurse gave me the same routine, treating me like a criminal and hung up. I called again, this time asking up front for the nurse's name "in case we are disconnected" and the woman refused and hung up. THIS IS F***ING INSANE. Her parents, clearly, as soon as they realized I had tracked down my wife, informed the nurses that I was not to have any contact with her or get any information, and since they are such massive liars, probably even making all kinds of insane accusations against me just to ensure I do not get any information. AND I HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT EVER SHOW LOVE AND CONCERN FOR MY WIFE AND TAKEN CARE OF HER SINCE THE MOMENT SHE WAS DIAGNOSED IN JANUARY 2009. The nurse said also she can't verify I am who I say I am, or verify that the woman whose name I have given as my wife is a patient there (even though that is OBVIOUS). So she couldn't verify what her own name was, or whether the person I was asking about was even a patient, or whether I was the person I was saying I was. Well, what can we verify then? I asked her. That the sun rose this morning? That the sky is blue??? Is this a hospital I am calling, or you can't verify that???

    I am relieved that my wife is actually alive and that I have tracked her down despite all of her parents' obfuscation and lies. But the fact that she is hospitalized again is deeply troubling to me, or the thought that she has been determined incompetent and that her parent's have gotten power of attorney, even though that is MY RIGHT as her husband.

    I am definitely going up there now that she is in a public hospital and I have legal access to her as her husband (I hope!). I have to find some way of getting an expedited copy of the marriage certificate as PROOF so these people at the hospital cannot treat me like this.

    thanks for listening... just to had to write this down somewhere.

    Do you have any IRS tax
    Do you have any IRS tax forms that you both signed as spouses? While it wouldn't be as good as the marriage license copy, it would show that that's how ya'll had filed at least til you can get a copy of license.

    Hubby just walkied in and I asked him for ideas - he said to try getting ahold of DMV and get a copy of her DL as she would have had to submit a copy of marriage license to change it from maiden name. Same with Social Security card - takes proof to change.

    Get in contact with American Embassy as you're dealing with a different country. Your Senators and Representative.

    Above all else - do not get yourself in trouble verbally or physically at the hospital.

    Unfortunately, unless you are listed as one who can be given info, the hospital can't give it. I had to sign papers with all my Drs and at the hospital that Hubby could be given information on me if he called. Also had to sign so Son can get info.

    Susan