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Male Answers to Male questions......Inquire inside..... :)

Buzzard's picture
Buzzard
Posts: 3073
Joined: Aug 2008

OK, for the women and men that need to know before hand what they may expect or problems they may already be seeing this is the place to try and get some answers from men and women about sex,sexual desires and cancers effect on sexual relationships....I know that I may differ from others but with complete openness and integrity but very candid, I will say whatever I need to to try and help anyone having trouble or simply needing a question answered. I am very sure that after this thread opens it will be a viable (not viagra) part of this forum to aid in what may be very intimate details that one may not like to share openly. I will however do the PM thing to anyone not wanting to speak openly in forum and understand completely why some would choose not to. I will give you some background of my history so that it will help some get started with the questions. There are plenty of us out there that need this type of help and I am also one of them...All of my friends in here will chime right in with their own experiences Im sure so it should prove to be a very informative as well as open and laid back conversation.....

I was diagnosed in March 2008 and underwent 25 weeks of radiation and 5fu. My tumor was about the size of a golfball and to low to save my rectum so I do have an ostomy that is permanent. The percentage of loss of sexual ability during surgery was 50%. I can live with that percentage. Well, I simply lost the libido along with erection ability. Now, I have a 36 year old wife and I am 55 so there lies the diliemma . I was on depression meds and still am so that didn't help the libido either. I have been almost 2 years and have had sex maybe 4 times. Not fair to my wife, not fair to my relationship either.OK, Viagra took care of the erection problem but then my Onc ask me if I ever got and erection while I slept or woke up with one. I told him yes, he said then the problem in in your head and not your genitals. I have started some new types of things that I did when we we're dating to bring back the exciting boldness that we use to have in our marriage and before while we dated. It is helping a ton in my "manly mentality" and I simply let her know that things will be different for a while until we see what really works for us. My life is suddenly replenished with life, love and happiness in the home...and the wife is pretty happy about it as well.....If anyone would like to ask specific or general questions if I can't answer them I know someone will. If you would like to pm me then that will be perfectly fine also. I do not try to delve into personal lives but I will be very frank about things so if you want to know ask, if you don't then you better not ask........Love to you all....."Dr Ruth"......just kiddin :)..Let em rip...Buzz

Sundanceh's picture
Sundanceh
Posts: 4408
Joined: Jun 2009

I'm sure this will be helpful as many people, mostly men, would have trouble talking about a loss in their manhood - just a real taboo subject. The women are much better at open discussion. I'm not shy about it anymore, and apparently neither are you - that's good and it does help to be able to discuss openly.

I had a guy the other day asking on a "rectal thread" and I finally gave in and gave him the lowdown on what my experiences were with radiation damage, atrophy, ED drugs, and the recovery and healing process. I received a few PMs as well and we talked at great length about different situations - it's enlightening to know you are not the only one. Validation is a healing tool in and of itself.

Time can allow the body to heal - though we are not the superstarts of years past. Alot of it is mental, especially for men, because we connect our appendage directly to our manhood and when this goes sideways, it's very emotional and devastating when things don't work, or not as it used to be.

Radiation, rectal surgery, and the fiddling of all of those nerves in that central location, can really set a person back - I found time is a big key - and ED drugs like Cialis, which I no longer need, but found worked with a more normal lifestyle, lasting in the bloodstream 36-hours, gave one time for things to develop. And unlike Viagra, one could eat a meal and even have a drink if desired, without losing any benefit in the medicine. And it could allow things to continue leaving one the option of more than once, if so desired, during that 36-hour window...and less face flushing too. Tried them all, Viagra, Levitra, and Cialis.

Time healed enough to no longer warrant those, but they are handy if one needs a little help.

Good luck on your thread - glad things are going well for you.

-Craig

Kerry S's picture
Kerry S
Posts: 607
Joined: Dec 2009

It does come back. I am 67 and my 6 weeks of chemo/radiation was almost 2 years back. ED lasted for almost a year. All is working fine for the last 6 months. The only thing is I no longer produce semen. The problem is not me, my wife is no longer taking hormones and she has no interest and says sex is too painful.

Now, if that little nurse that does my port flushes were to say the right thing, I think I would fire up quicker and stronger then a diesel tractor on a hot day.

abrub's picture
abrub
Posts: 2095
Joined: Mar 2010

The pain causes an instant shut-down (my post-chemo/instant menopause notes). Encourage your wife to speak with her gyn - localized estrogen (Vagifem - which is estradiol, the same as is produced by our bodies, and not a synthetic estrogen) helped me a lot physically, tho unfortunately hasn't helped the libido. I still want to be there for my husband, and hope to rejoin him in explosions of joy one of these days...

pluckey's picture
pluckey
Posts: 484
Joined: Jul 2009

bwahahaha!!! crack me up, I just spit my coffee out!

peggy

Aud's picture
Aud
Posts: 480
Joined: Oct 2009

good post. For anyone who wants information on women and effects of radiation, I'd be happy to oblige. I had 6 weeks of radiation after transanal excision for Stage I, T2 rectal cancer. Some issues I have dealt with: vaginal/perineal/anal burns/sores, prolonged (3 weeks) bleeding due to ovaries being zapped, painful intercourse, treatment for prevention of vaginal atrophy/dryness, abrupt menopause with decreased libido, tight/painful hips/pelvis, and bowel urgency. Everyone has different ways in how to deal with these problems. For anyone who wants to know, I'll tell you how I dealt with them and hope that I could be helpful.
Hope, Peace, and Healing to All.
Audrey

Jaylo969
Posts: 827
Joined: Jan 2010

Or anybody else. I have a question. I am female so maybe it would be appropriate for me to start another thread.I've tried to google info on my question but can't find an answer.
Ok...starting another thread.

-Pat

Shayenne's picture
Shayenne
Posts: 2370
Joined: Jan 2009

I don't mind posting on anything "taboo" or "questions that men and women afraid or embarrassed to ask", so ladies and gentlemen, really, we're all sisters and brothers here and most of us don't get offended to easily about medical questions, and know that it be ok to learn things on everything. So, don't be afraid to talk to us, I hate the thought that it should be separated like that, but if it makes it easier for the men and women to post about it, then thats awesome! Like Dr. Oz says, "Nothing should be off limits"! so post away, sexual, non sexual, gross, whatever...no one will judge you personally you here, I feel it's quite interesting to talk about this, and a good way to learn and what could happen to any of us along the way. More informed! ;)

Don't hold anything back, we love to be here to just help :)

Hugsss!
~Donna

idlehunters's picture
idlehunters
Posts: 1792
Joined: Apr 2009

I have two questions. I am not holding back..ya'll said NOT to......

1) My husband and I are VERY oral people. Will eating semen hurt you in any way? I read the thread about chemo in bodily fluids. We honestly never gave it any thought until I read that thread. My Onc never said not to ingest it. He never said anything bout sex.

2) My surgery removed the large intestine. Can I still have anal sex???

Jennie

Shayenne's picture
Shayenne
Posts: 2370
Joined: Jan 2009

Never read or heard that eating sperm would hurt you...I mean, I dont do it anyway, sorry but the thought of lil tadpoles floating around my belly was never a turn on for me...

I'm also not sure about the anal sex thang either... that was just used for "exit only" for me, have you tried? I know when I tried having sex, it hurt me like hell! I was so very tight, like it was my first time

I hope things get better for you

Hugzzz!!
~DonnA

idlehunters's picture
idlehunters
Posts: 1792
Joined: Apr 2009

You're so cute! Different strokes for different folks I suppose. I don't think of it as lil tadpoles floating round in my tummy..... Anal was a "new" thing for me that just barely got started when I was DX. I would like to explore it further but don't know if it is "safe" now. Thanks for your input Donna.

Jennie

abrub's picture
abrub
Posts: 2095
Joined: Mar 2010

I would probably skip the oral portions during chemo treatments and for a few days after. I read about a woman who was allergic to an antibiotic, and reacted to it in her husband's semen - took a while to diagnose the problem!

Also, if chemo gets on your skin, it's considered a "Hazardous Material Situation" I was sent home with hazmat kits in case my chemo pump ever leaked (it did), so I wouldn't want it on my skin. (Just coursing through my veins...)

On the other hand, much of the chemo is broken down and diluted before it gets to the semen. This is something you can ask your onc (believe me, he's already heard everything) or else your gyn.

Regarding the large intestine - if you are fully healed (many months post op) and functioning normally, you should be able to try again, taking it very easy, and stopping if there is any unusual pain. Again, I'd ask my dr. (I do ask mine anything.)

idlehunters's picture
idlehunters
Posts: 1792
Joined: Apr 2009

I have tried on more than one occasion to ask these exact questions to my onc. It is sooooooo embarrasing! the words just would not come out of my mouth. I have an appointment this Thursday morning with him. I may write the questions down and just let him read them. I think that may be easier for me. Thanks for your advice.

Jennie

Patteee's picture
Patteee
Posts: 950
Joined: Jul 2009

O.M.G

way too much information

HollyID's picture
HollyID
Posts: 951
Joined: Dec 2009

to be really honest, I've wondered these same things. We quit oral sex. Well, I didn't, but I just have a problem with him going down on me since I'm still on chemo. The thoughts of it in my bodily fluid just seems to icky. He does wear a condom since I'm on chemo.

I've wondered about the anal sex thing. I enjoy it. My surgery was so low that there is only about 3 inches of rectum left and then the anastomosis and will it hurt? Will it feel like it used to? Most importantly, since my bowels don't work like they used to, I'd be scared I'd poop all over him. Maybe this would be better in the shower? LOL

You're questions sure don't bother me. Sex is talked quite a bit in this household. We love sex and I don't plan on quitting any time soon.

khl8
Posts: 810
Joined: Nov 2009

Please talk to your surgeon about this, I did not ask about as since this part of my body as been so violated that the thought of anything happening there freaks me out, but one of the first things my surgeon said was anal sex is out of the question. there could be scarring and where the new connections were made could cause major problems.

RickMurtagh's picture
RickMurtagh
Posts: 584
Joined: Feb 2010

A couple of men start dialogue on cancer effects on sex and the women hijack it, even talking about oral sex. Where are you men? COWARDS! I would post something, but I...umm...have...surgery, ha, I have surgery today and have to be at the hospital in thirty minutes and have to finish a new Advanced Directive before I go.
When I come back I want at least ten posts from men on this subject. Manly posts, nothing about crying during sex or anything mushy like that. Make it medical sounding if you have to. Come on men, or are you COWARDS?

coloCan
Posts: 1956
Joined: Oct 2009

nonfunctioning appendages with women interceding so I'll send Buzzard PM on this touchy topic. All I'll say here is things ain't been the same since surgery tho onc will be refering me to urologist. Ain't used to this!!!!!!(I'll take any type of sex now (butt anal--try and you die!!!!!) but I still think it won;t work......Help

idlehunters's picture
idlehunters
Posts: 1792
Joined: Apr 2009

I did not know this was a "male ONLY" thread. Sorry if you feel I hijacked it Rick. I thought it was an open thread. Patteee........... Buzz and Donna both said to be open. I am sorry if MY information was "too much" for you. Please let me withdraw my questions. I thought we were family and could talk about anything. Now I feel really bad and wish I had said nothing. Sorry if I offended any of you.

Jennie

greybeard64's picture
greybeard64
Posts: 254
Joined: Mar 2010

Seems to me if your "uptight" about the thread or what may be discussed maybe you should skip this one instead of passing judgement on a legitimate adult question. just my two cents but the is no such thing on here as "to much information"
As for the oral I would def. ask the onc. seems to me it would have some effect on semen as it seems to do a job on everything else. I noticed a difference in the smell of my sweat, and in my urine I realize completely different areas but still bodily fluid?

I think the Hi jack post was a humorous one just poking fun at us manly men, LOL.
It is a touchy subject with guys we are programmed to equate our "physical prowess" to our manliness.

RickMurtagh's picture
RickMurtagh
Posts: 584
Joined: Feb 2010

I saw all of it as a hoot, no apologies needed. I t just struck me funny with the title of the first post bering male answers to male questions and the women had more "answers" or at least were willing to talk about it and there was nada from the men.

david54
Posts: 167
Joined: Apr 2009

My wife is so thin and emaciated with her cancer and chemotherapy that to be honest, the idea of sex ….doesn’t. Please do not judge me, I love her so much! But the thought …...I am so afraid she would somehow be injured. That does not mean there is no intimacy. Intimacy is expressing thought, rubbing her sore back, kissing her beautiful face and simple holding her when she is so cold after Oxaliplatin – I guess that is where our sex life starts and stops. I know plenty of Gregorian Chants if any of you are interested!

RickMurtagh's picture
RickMurtagh
Posts: 584
Joined: Feb 2010

I am glad that you found intimacy that works for you new normal. You post was touching.

dschreffler's picture
dschreffler
Posts: 58
Joined: Apr 2010

Great thread - thanks for starting it. A much needed one for candor among males so that expectations and appropriate decisions on treatment can be made before hand.

Warning - if under 21, get parent's permission before reading this thread.

As for sex, I think each of us needs to level set on how we meet our own and our partner's needs. As someone who is only mid 40's, I noticed some drop off in drive and ability as I got older - not the always ready walking around with a boner like my 20's ;-). So with age/confidence in myself and relationship, we simply modify technique and try new stuff. Erection and male orgasm, is only one part of the sexual experience. If I focused solely on that, then sex would have been pretty one sided, pretty boring, and frustrating for both of us - in my opinion.

So, understanding that, we have a lot of fun finding pleasure spots that have not always required penetration. Hey, what's this sensitive spot on the back of the wife's neck that I now know I can kiss out her orgasm. Hey want to try out that new bedroom toy. Your mileage may vary and will depend upon your openness and relationship with your partner. I'm a very lucky man.

So with that foundation, I'm not too hung up (bad pun) for on demand erections, and understand treatment/surgery options likely will decrease ability and perhaps desire. My question from my other thread was which options have what degree of an effect on all the lower part of the body functions - fecal control, urine control, sexual functionality, and any other lower body pain/discomfort/issues/risks.

I'm a cancer newbie, never been seriously sick or o any medication prior, and only have completed pre surgery chemo and radiation. Surgery is about 4 weeks away. I think I have been very lucky with the limited side effects in general, and with the male specific concerns particularly.

I finished 6 weeks of radiation , with oxy and xeloda. All was a M-f with weekends off.

Did not engage in sex during this time because was concerned about toxicity of body fluids and really not in the mood or too tired. The red/white blood cells dropped in week 3 and so did I. Also, constipation and painful stool exit makes one eat less, so energy takes a dive too.

In week 4, the radiation burn started and pain acted as additional deterrent to sex (and most other things). I did catch up on a lot of bad sci-fi movies and tv series while laying on my belly, so not that the time was not used productively ;-) Radiation pain was on skin on butt.. scrotum and penis pretty much ok. Some discomfort during urination - could "feel" bladder empty, discomfort and feeling of not fully draining the lizard.

Radiation burn on outer skin got worse and did not begin to subside until 1 week after treatment ended. I'm at about 90% of healing 2 weeks after treatments ended. Still some sense of urgency when bladder full. Minor irritation with bowel movements - I'd assume similar to hemorrhoids - or maybe that's what I have now.

For the past week I feel great - just tired and know that the bottom is still healing al around. We had a go at sex and was able to have erection as before, but not really a comfortable one. Pretty sure it was radiation effects. Skin tight like its sun damaged. Orgasm was not painful, but not pleasurable - just weird feeling. Gonna hold off for another week so I don't injure anything while still healing.

Candid enough?

SueRelays
Posts: 489
Joined: Dec 2009

WOW....I needed something to take my mind off a sad event today....THANKS!

Buzzard's picture
Buzzard
Posts: 3073
Joined: Aug 2008

Thank you for the detailed info....That will help others more than you know. This is simply a thread to allow others to have info at their fingertips so that they can use what they see fit to make the best of their own situations. It is info that is invaluable to many more than you would think.....again thanks for sharing it.....

My use of viagra is taking care of business but the Cialis ...I may try that for a change... Things after 2 years are finally working some on their own but it is a stimulus thing that becomes necessary before complete erection occurs...and yes I have found that very heavy petting helps tremendously as I think to me it takes my mind (mental again) off the job of making sure there is an erection. It just seems to now be happening for the most part naturally when I don't really concentrate on it.....If I dismiss the complete thought of having sex and simply get very close and cuddly with my mate then it is seeming to happen more frequently and naturally...It has taken almost 2 years to get this way though...Life gets better everyday.....

Jennie....My guess is to find a female nurse practitioner that deals with the chemo and ask her about the oral ingestion.... It is a hazardous chemical but I wouldn't fathom a guess on safety or dilution rates of sperm...But, unless your husband is on chemo where would the problem lie ?

SueRelays.....Informative or entertaining...whatever gets us through the day...just glad it makes ya feel better whichever the case may be.......Buzz

idlehunters's picture
idlehunters
Posts: 1792
Joined: Apr 2009

I was asking FOR my husband.... he ingests MY semen.... nevermind....

steve g
Posts: 58
Joined: Dec 2008

Since you and I had the same DX and the same end result, perhaps you can relate to my troubles. My wife is only 11 yrs. my junior but has maintained her physical characteristics for the 35 yrs we've been together and I have tried to stay in shape also but the surgery changed all that. Now I hesitate to use the shower if she is in the bathroom, who wants to look at an old man with a bag of crap attached to his stomach. After Craig's post relating to the same subject, I finally discussed this with her and as she said, " what would you do if I lost a breast to cancer, would you think any less of me", of course the answer is no but thats her not me. Even though she took over after the stoma nurse and change me for a couple of weeks, I still can't get over it. I guess as a former Marine it's a pride thing.
Steve

Buzzard's picture
Buzzard
Posts: 3073
Joined: Aug 2008

Remember that I am only giving my thoughts and only that which was/is pertinent to my situation, I take my situation (my bag and the way I thought about it) and replace it with something that my wife has told me doesn't exactly make her feel 100% such as shape, boobs size, etc, something that men may not worry about but it really upsets the woman. I spoke with her and she tells me that whether I had a bag or not is not the issue because she tells me of all the flaws that make her feel less than a woman and to hear her speak of it makes me feel like we are more on an even keel than I thought. She lets me know that neither one of us are exactly the way we would like to be so we put that aside and concentrate on things to allow our lives to better function with each other with what we have, not what we wish we had. Am I making any sense here ? Don't let a bag bother you...what about some of the things most women do on a monthly basis...Do you think that makes them feel adorable or sexy, naw, but like our bag it is something that they have to deal with as does ostomy patients as well. Another facet of life that makes us manipulate our thinking so that we can feel "adequate" for our spouses.
I am though after almost 2 years with it feeling like it is a part of me now and accepting and even making jokes about it, which makes it easier for me "mentally" to cope with and also easier for me to feel like it is "accepted" as ok by my wife. Your right , for me it use to be 110% mental...now its only about 40% mental and 40% physical and 20% Viagra... Hope this helps you, it did me........Buzz

miss vickie
Posts: 10
Joined: Apr 2010

ok buzzard, i need to know the problems my husband has sexually , is caused from his cancer, and was it wrong for him not to have any kemo or radiation after his surgery just as like another step of i guess protection of the cancer realy being gone he went threw hell with the first surgery it was just the 5 cuts, but the second one they split him wide open he has lost at least 12 to 12 inches of his colon, still has terrible muscle spasams down in the rectal area is that also xcommon or something going on thanks for being here to talk to

Buzzard's picture
Buzzard
Posts: 3073
Joined: Aug 2008

As far as post op chemo that is an individual decision that I will beg to decline that answer. I chose my option and you both made the decision for yourself to not have it . That is just something that is left to an individual and what they think is necessary for their health. As far as sex and post op chemo I do think it made me sick enough to not want to fool with anything, didn't have the strength or desire to even try. Radiation I didn't have any problems just slight mild sunburn and as I remember my "finish" was a little painful.
Surgery , well, surgery, it saved my life, and it has been very detrimental to my sexual prowess, feeling, and libido. When they do surgery down there they remove a lot of nerve endings or have a tendancy to destroy a lot of the nerves that allows us to get an erection, ejaculate, or even feel the desire that these areas of the body hold, thus when this happens (and its suppose to happen in about 50% of men with this type surgery) then the libido, and desire wans for no other reason that I guess when a cat or dog gets castrated, all hey wanna do is lay around and get fat and sassy, their desire is gone. So it goes for the male (as far as me, I am only speaking for what I go through ) what we did (wife and I ) is really get into depth about what bothers us and how we can repair it. The heavy muscle spasms in the rectal area are ever so present when orgasm occurs. I had my backside sewn shut so I don't really know whats going on back there but it is very "different"...not so much uncomfortable, just very different....I would think its normal........Good Luck, Buzz

miss vickie
Posts: 10
Joined: Apr 2010

thabks buzzard, ok but for the muscle spasums hes having itsnot during any kind of sex play or sex hes just siting there and has them sometimes bad and as far as sex goes well hes gonna ask for the blue pill will see but its like he wants on touching playing or antything its just gone its very difficult he will have a colonoscopy by the end of month maybe thenwe will be able to find more out on different things thanks again

greybeard64's picture
greybeard64
Posts: 254
Joined: Mar 2010

As for me I am just now starting to see and increase in my sex drive. Although the depression meds seem to keep me from having and orgasm, sometimes if I do manage to get close, I begin to get a crazy painful headache...Anyone other guys experience the headache?

I do believe my situation is probably 60/40 now mental over physical. I went from a very physically fit athletic guy to....well a soft, scared up, mess with little stamina. while things are improving I am finding my mind is the one "muscle" I am having the hardest time with.

TxKayaker's picture
TxKayaker
Posts: 177
Joined: Jun 2009

I've never experienced a headache but I can think of several things that might cause one but my reasons may bump this into a X rated board.
Best of luck to you Greybeard!

greybeard64's picture
greybeard64
Posts: 254
Joined: Mar 2010

Are you saying a bit of descretion may be in order ;)!

I am sure in time, it will pass. Seems that is alot of what fighting cancer and all that goes along with it is about,waiting...wondering...and then adapting.

thanks for the good luck wish.
greybeard

TxKayaker's picture
TxKayaker
Posts: 177
Joined: Jun 2009

No I was trying to make a joke nothing has bothered me in this thread. But things have certainly changed in our lives due to our battles. Still best of luck to you Greybeard.

greybeard64's picture
greybeard64
Posts: 254
Joined: Mar 2010

I got it, I was trying to be funny also. :)
greybeard

Buzzard's picture
Buzzard
Posts: 3073
Joined: Aug 2008

and your right the "mental" muscle is normally 75% of our trouble.......

RickMurtagh's picture
RickMurtagh
Posts: 584
Joined: Feb 2010

you guy (and gals) are great.

Sex for us, post trauma, has been fleeting. For me, no sensitivity and very few erections leads to not much actual sex, but I am trying to keep my wife happy and like David, sex with the new normal even though it does not often involve erections and orgasms has been very gratifying. Who knew that just touching could be so satisfying. I mean, who would not like and explosive orgasm - but so far I have learned to live without it and my wife does not seems I no longer constantly beg for sex - laf - just a joke. I think having a great sex life prior to cancer has helped us prepare for this new normal.

Intimacy used to always culminate in sex, now it is just satisfaction. I can life with that!

ron50's picture
ron50
Posts: 1721
Joined: Nov 2001

ONCE IN A WHILE WOULD BE GREAT. Unfortunately surgery and chemo completely scuttled me . If they played God save the Queen no one or no thing would be upstanding. I believe it is the reason my wife left me. I have asked my gp and got the response "oh is that a problem." Well hell yes ,but none of the tablets helped so I have resigned myself to the fact that what is gone is gone. I guess,nothing else works ,why the hell should that. Ron.

Buzzard's picture
Buzzard
Posts: 3073
Joined: Aug 2008

informed me that if after surgery if I found out I could not perform that he could implant a pump...but that never had to come about...just a thought.....Buzz

coloCan
Posts: 1956
Joined: Oct 2009

Do any of you men also get this reaction to stimulation, that you feel it in the area of the stoma (if you have one) ? When I should be getting hard,I feel something in stoma area inside of me. My docs are aware and onc supposed to refer me to urologist; also still have urination problems-all, I believe, due to surgery, not chemo/rad.

Its almost like it used to be.Me and my girlfriend used to make love like dogs:

I'd beg
and
she;d roll over and play dead.........steve

Buzzard's picture
Buzzard
Posts: 3073
Joined: Aug 2008

My thoughts on that are when we had our surgery (and your surgery was similar to mine) that we had the nerve endings that were in the rectal area moved to reroute the intestine for the ostomy protrusion . I think that the nerve endings that use to be lower before the surgery (actually where the intestine should have been) have now been transferred to the ostomy site and the same feelings are there but simply have been moved to a different location through surgery...
The urination problem is the loss of the spincter muscle that helps control or cut off the urine stream.....Buzz

Shayenne's picture
Shayenne
Posts: 2370
Joined: Jan 2009

...You're too damn funny LOL

Hugsss!
~Donna

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