One distant lymph node
After 3 treatments of folfox and 9 treatments of folfiri it turns out my husband still has one positive lymph node. It is near his lungs and esophogus. No other nodes appear to be cancerous. Everything else seems great.
Does anyone know anything about this? Since he already did chemo, seems like our options are limited. The dr who did the biopsy said it's an area where they can do surgery. Is it an option to do surgery and then just monitor him extremely close? It just seems like chemo won't work...
We don't see the onc til Thursday so I thought I'd see what you all think
Comments
-
Lymphing along
My surgeons explained to me, that the lymph nodes trap bad things
and hold 'em inside, like a jail, until the immune system can get to
it and kill it/remove it.
Of course, if the immune system doesn't kill the cancer cell,
it can have a chance to continue to grow, or it can be let out
of the node unharmed...
Chemo can only kill cells that divide faster than the cells of where
it originated from. Inside a lymph node? It's tough. It's a cell from
someplace else. And chemo does a lousy job of killing single
cancer cells that aren't growing at any rapid rate.
Since lymph nodes travel, being "distant" doesn't sound like
it's anything unusual. I have had 7 out of 20something nodes
infected with cancer, making me at minimum, a "3c" victim.
They didn't know how many more, and didn't seem to care.
The idea is, if it's more than 4, it's assumed you've got it throughout
your body.
I'm surprised they could see an infected node! They usually remove
a bunch and send 'em to a lab for testing. Or at least that's what they
told me.
I would relax ad wait to see exactly what it is, and what they are
offering you. There have been many, many cases of things appearing
then disappearing, like magic. Cancer is an insidious disease, and
often your immune system can deal with it better than anything
chemically produced can.
Relax..... You've got to learn to roll with the punches. Life's
full of twists and turns, and more often than not, worrying
only degrades your chances to survive it all.
Think healthy!
John0 -
Thank you both
I appreciate your responses:
Gail - thank you for thinking of us and for the positive thoughts.
John - thanks for your insights. When my husband had his colon resection they removed 26 nodes and only one was positive. So he was stage III. On a recent PET something on his lung lit up so they did a biopsy. The dr who did the biopsy said it looked like a lymph node rather than an actual mass on the lung. So, either way, I guess he is stage iV now but I'm hopeful since it's just one spot. I don't know, I'm just so scared. Trying to relax and wait patiently until our appt on Thursday but it's just sooo hard.0 -
I wouldnt say Chemo didnt workemrose said:Thank you both
I appreciate your responses:
Gail - thank you for thinking of us and for the positive thoughts.
John - thanks for your insights. When my husband had his colon resection they removed 26 nodes and only one was positive. So he was stage III. On a recent PET something on his lung lit up so they did a biopsy. The dr who did the biopsy said it looked like a lymph node rather than an actual mass on the lung. So, either way, I guess he is stage iV now but I'm hopeful since it's just one spot. I don't know, I'm just so scared. Trying to relax and wait patiently until our appt on Thursday but it's just sooo hard.
I too, was first DX'd with stage 3, a few months later after completing 8 months of IV chemo, a spot showed up on my lungs, had to have surgery again, and another 8 months of chemo, but this time it seems to have worked. I have been cancer free for over a year if you count from the surgery date, and 8 months cancer free if you count from when I finished chemo. SO it does work, its just sometimes we have to do it more than once. So please dont think that it doesnt work, because I believe it does. It totally SUCKS, no getting around that but it can work. I will keep you and your family in my prayers, please dont give up hope..
God Bless
Beth0 -
Well....emrose said:Thank you both
I appreciate your responses:
Gail - thank you for thinking of us and for the positive thoughts.
John - thanks for your insights. When my husband had his colon resection they removed 26 nodes and only one was positive. So he was stage III. On a recent PET something on his lung lit up so they did a biopsy. The dr who did the biopsy said it looked like a lymph node rather than an actual mass on the lung. So, either way, I guess he is stage iV now but I'm hopeful since it's just one spot. I don't know, I'm just so scared. Trying to relax and wait patiently until our appt on Thursday but it's just sooo hard.
On the plus side, you only have three days to worry about what
you may or may not hear.
Actually, it almost sounds like it's all on the plus side anyway....
They didn't find a growth attached to the lung, only a lymph node
with a cell mass inside. That's what lymph nodes are supposed
to do, catch and trap bad things. And you said they took that
node out? If not, they oughta'. Once it's out, there's nothing
different than before. It doesn't change the stat to a stage four,
since he already had a node infected, right? So he had two,
they just missed that one (the cell was likely too small).
And if they did a biop, they should be able to tell if it's a colon
cancer cell, or from someplace else. If someplace else, it doesn't
change the stat to four, it just means there's two different "types"
of cancer, and each is graded separately.
And.... Even if it is a colon cell, if it's in a lymph node and hasn't
attached itself to another organ, it still isn't a stage four.
Our immune systems usually kill and dispose of bad things, cancer
cells included. When our immune system doesn't do it's job properly,
it allows the defective cell to continue to stay alive.
Cancer cells are just normal cells that have lost their ability to take
instructions from our brain./body. Unable to stay alive without the
instructions, it goes into the fermentation process to survive. It steals
glucose and spits out lactic acid, while the liver tries to convert the
lactic acid back into glucose as fast. It's a nasty cycle, once tumors
get large enough to drain our body of it's needed resources. We
can't survive very long, without glucose.
Wow.. did I go off-track, or what? I did that on purpose!
By the time you are reading this last line...... it should be
Thursday morning and time to go.
You're welcome.
John0 -
Very encouragingdorookie said:I wouldnt say Chemo didnt work
I too, was first DX'd with stage 3, a few months later after completing 8 months of IV chemo, a spot showed up on my lungs, had to have surgery again, and another 8 months of chemo, but this time it seems to have worked. I have been cancer free for over a year if you count from the surgery date, and 8 months cancer free if you count from when I finished chemo. SO it does work, its just sometimes we have to do it more than once. So please dont think that it doesnt work, because I believe it does. It totally SUCKS, no getting around that but it can work. I will keep you and your family in my prayers, please dont give up hope..
God Bless
Beth
Thank you for sharing Beth.
Did you do folfox the first time and folfiri the second time? THe reason I was feeling it wouldn't work was because he already did both so I wasn't sure what we could try next0 -
LolJohn23 said:Well....
On the plus side, you only have three days to worry about what
you may or may not hear.
Actually, it almost sounds like it's all on the plus side anyway....
They didn't find a growth attached to the lung, only a lymph node
with a cell mass inside. That's what lymph nodes are supposed
to do, catch and trap bad things. And you said they took that
node out? If not, they oughta'. Once it's out, there's nothing
different than before. It doesn't change the stat to a stage four,
since he already had a node infected, right? So he had two,
they just missed that one (the cell was likely too small).
And if they did a biop, they should be able to tell if it's a colon
cancer cell, or from someplace else. If someplace else, it doesn't
change the stat to four, it just means there's two different "types"
of cancer, and each is graded separately.
And.... Even if it is a colon cell, if it's in a lymph node and hasn't
attached itself to another organ, it still isn't a stage four.
Our immune systems usually kill and dispose of bad things, cancer
cells included. When our immune system doesn't do it's job properly,
it allows the defective cell to continue to stay alive.
Cancer cells are just normal cells that have lost their ability to take
instructions from our brain./body. Unable to stay alive without the
instructions, it goes into the fermentation process to survive. It steals
glucose and spits out lactic acid, while the liver tries to convert the
lactic acid back into glucose as fast. It's a nasty cycle, once tumors
get large enough to drain our body of it's needed resources. We
can't survive very long, without glucose.
Wow.. did I go off-track, or what? I did that on purpose!
By the time you are reading this last line...... it should be
Thursday morning and time to go.
You're welcome.
John
Well... Unfortunately it's still Monday
but thanks for trying!!
Oh, and to adress a couple of your points:
- they did confirm it was colon cancer
- the reason I believe it's stage IV is because of the location. Is my understanding that if it's out of the abdominal region it's stage IV even if it's just a lymph node
- they didn't remove it, just took a biopsy. But I'm hoping we can do surgery to remove it soon!
- I do agree with many of your points though, and that's why I am remaining hopeful!
Thanks again!0 -
emrose......emrose said:Lol
Well... Unfortunately it's still Monday but thanks for trying!!
Oh, and to adress a couple of your points:
- they did confirm it was colon cancer
- the reason I believe it's stage IV is because of the location. Is my understanding that if it's out of the abdominal region it's stage IV even if it's just a lymph node
- they didn't remove it, just took a biopsy. But I'm hoping we can do surgery to remove it soon!
- I do agree with many of your points though, and that's why I am remaining hopeful!
Thanks again!
Please....breathe....you have a plan, either way you have a plan. Yes, you do overthink everything..Common, especially with caretakers because they try to go way beyond because they seem to think that they can never do enough for the patient. Thats wrong, just being there is enough to give the patients the confidence and attitude to be ok with whatever they have to do..My wife told me that she tried to do everything possible plus some because she felt helpless in my diagnosis. She as well as I was at our wits end, so we decided that just being there was enough. Mostly we want someone to accompany us. For me anyway, its a comfort just to know that people care. You are going way beyond the call of duty as all caregivers do and we certainly feel the love when you do that, but we also worry that ya'll will suffer more than we do because of it...Its just my thoughts and not necessarily anyone elses but my wife and I agree that we both have to learn to just breathe and let everything take its course. Theres not much control to be gained in this journey, so we can't fix whats broke, we just have to hope that the right moves are made and that it decides to leave the body for good, and that in the process we live for the moment, every moment. He will be fine, the baby is a blessing and you need to relax a bit...You are an incredible woman, he is a lucky man, im sure he knows it too....Love Hope and Patience, Buzz0 -
Lymph node not attached to lungJohn23 said:Well....
On the plus side, you only have three days to worry about what
you may or may not hear.
Actually, it almost sounds like it's all on the plus side anyway....
They didn't find a growth attached to the lung, only a lymph node
with a cell mass inside. That's what lymph nodes are supposed
to do, catch and trap bad things. And you said they took that
node out? If not, they oughta'. Once it's out, there's nothing
different than before. It doesn't change the stat to a stage four,
since he already had a node infected, right? So he had two,
they just missed that one (the cell was likely too small).
And if they did a biop, they should be able to tell if it's a colon
cancer cell, or from someplace else. If someplace else, it doesn't
change the stat to four, it just means there's two different "types"
of cancer, and each is graded separately.
And.... Even if it is a colon cell, if it's in a lymph node and hasn't
attached itself to another organ, it still isn't a stage four.
Our immune systems usually kill and dispose of bad things, cancer
cells included. When our immune system doesn't do it's job properly,
it allows the defective cell to continue to stay alive.
Cancer cells are just normal cells that have lost their ability to take
instructions from our brain./body. Unable to stay alive without the
instructions, it goes into the fermentation process to survive. It steals
glucose and spits out lactic acid, while the liver tries to convert the
lactic acid back into glucose as fast. It's a nasty cycle, once tumors
get large enough to drain our body of it's needed resources. We
can't survive very long, without glucose.
Wow.. did I go off-track, or what? I did that on purpose!
By the time you are reading this last line...... it should be
Thursday morning and time to go.
You're welcome.
John
Hi John 23, I wonder what you have heard about distant mastisis in lymph nodes only, I have a few in abdomin and left side of neck found with PET/CTscan. All organs are clear including lungs and liver. I need a permanant colostomy but my oncologist says I have no shot at living so no need for surgery. I have no symptoms, found with 50yr old routine colonoscopy, I work out and play golf and was just enjoying life until 2 weeks ago. What facts or positive stories have you heard for people like me, anything would be appreciated.0 -
Say WHAT?lexern said:Lymph node not attached to lung
Hi John 23, I wonder what you have heard about distant mastisis in lymph nodes only, I have a few in abdomin and left side of neck found with PET/CTscan. All organs are clear including lungs and liver. I need a permanant colostomy but my oncologist says I have no shot at living so no need for surgery. I have no symptoms, found with 50yr old routine colonoscopy, I work out and play golf and was just enjoying life until 2 weeks ago. What facts or positive stories have you heard for people like me, anything would be appreciated.
Re:
"my oncologist says I have no shot at living so no need for surgery. "
How hard did you kick him? I would have drop-kicked that butthole
across town, if I was there. What a jerk.
(Whew... it's gonna' take me most of the morning to settle down from this one)
Listen lexern (can I call ya' lex?), do yourself a majorly big favor,
and get an oncologist with a brain. Don't get one from the same group
or organization, and go out of town, if necessary, but get another
opinion. In fact, plan on getting more opinions than just two.
Yeah, cancer kills, and it'll probably kill me. Maybe. Maybe not.
We'll see. But we all have to go sometime, and I've accepted that.
Well, of course I'm saying that now because that big white light isn't
blinding me at the moment.... but we'll see....
No-one can predict how long we have on the face of this earth; no-one.
There are many here, that have beaten the "odds" that they were told
they have. If that's due to the Cancer Industry's new approach of convincing
patients that the treatments are what's miraculously providing more days
can be debated, but non-the-less, odds have been challenged with
or without mainstream medicine.
So take a really deep breath, and go get other opinions regarding
your cancer condition.
They usually set the cancer staging based on several factors, and
lymph node involvement is only one. They generally take more
than 20 nodes, and if there's 4 or less "involved" it's not a terrible
sign that the cancer's spread too much. More than 4 nodes out
of 20 plus, is usually a sign that the cancer's spread around pretty
well. Is that bad? Well.... yeah. But that's what those nodes do;
they're there to catch bad stuff and hold it inside their lil' jail, until
the good guys come and toss them out of the body. The nodes
are part of our elaborate immune system, and they're doing what
they should be doing.
The problem with present day chemotherapy and radiation, is
that it hasn't changed in over 40 years. They've modified the
amount of chemicals, and are using less.... and using them with
other nifty things in an attempt to get more of the same old
chemicals into the areas where it might do the most good....
But... the chemicals they've used years ago, are basically the same.
The bad part, is that our immune system needs to be beefed up
to fight cancer, and all the chemicals destroy the immune system.
It's kinda' like a lose/lose situation. Our body ends up fighting the
damage from all the chemicals, instead of fighting all the cancer cells,
and we're left with a dependency to the industry to do the fighting
for us. It's sad, but that's really what it's all about.
So get another opinion, and figure out what direction you want
to go. There are different Chemotherapy options, as well as
different alternative medicine options to choose from.
One thing you absolutely -must- keep in mind, is that if the cancer
is located in a spot that will kill you in short order, it must be
removed as quickly as possible.
I had a major tumor that was totally obstructing my colon. There
was an emergency situation, and that obstruction had to be
cleared ASAP. "Alternative medicine" (in my case, TCM), simply
can't do what surgery can do as quickly as surgery can do it.
You have got to find out how quickly your cancer has to be removed;
you have got to know the urgency, to be able to decide your options.
If surgery is needed for survival, do it. If radiation is said to be the
only way, do it. Do whatever it takes to take the urgency away,
but -please- do whatever is needed after getting other opinions.
(unless you're unconscious on a gurney in the ER )
Please let us know how you make out?
(At my age, I always like hearing how people make out)
(ok, I'm a pig)
Good health to you.
John0 -
oops? Double post!lexern said:Lymph node not attached to lung
Hi John 23, I wonder what you have heard about distant mastisis in lymph nodes only, I have a few in abdomin and left side of neck found with PET/CTscan. All organs are clear including lungs and liver. I need a permanant colostomy but my oncologist says I have no shot at living so no need for surgery. I have no symptoms, found with 50yr old routine colonoscopy, I work out and play golf and was just enjoying life until 2 weeks ago. What facts or positive stories have you heard for people like me, anything would be appreciated.0 -
sorry didnt see this postemrose said:Very encouraging
Thank you for sharing Beth.
Did you do folfox the first time and folfiri the second time? THe reason I was feeling it wouldn't work was because he already did both so I wasn't sure what we could try next
I did Folfox for the first 3 months the first go around but had to switch to Folfri because of the problems with the oxyplatin (sp). When the cancer came back I did Xeloda at a very high dosage, and that worked, thank God. Please stay strong.. How is your hubby doing now?
Beth0 -
UPDATE
Hello everyone
wanted to give an update:
first, to answer the question of how we knew - my husband had his first post chemo pet scan and somethig lit up on/near the lung. He had an endoscopic ultrasound/biopsy that confirmed it was the colon cancer. The GI who did the biopsy said it looked like a lymph node right outside the esophogus, not an actual mass on the lung.
Fast forward: he had surgery on Tuesday. Turns out there were three small spots on the lung,, one just happened to be the same size and shape as a lymph node. So, turns out it wasn't one distant lymph node afterall. He had a thoroctomy/wedge resection. All three spots were removed with clear margins and all the lymph nodes that he removed were negative! Woohoo! He got home from the hospital yesterday and is doing well, But lots of pain still.
We met with an herbalist who specializes in working with cancer patients and my husband is on tons of suppplements to boost his immne system, weaken any potentially lingering cancer cells, and help him recover from surgery. We are meeting with a couple differet oncologists over thenext several weeks to figure out a plan for doing another round of chemo We had his tumor cells sent to a lab in California to test his resistence and sensitivity to different Chemo drugs. Since he's done folfox and folfiri, he doesn't want to go that route again. We are, however, hoping that he's cancer free now and any further treatment will just be precautionary. He's changing his diet and takig supplements to create an anti cancer environment in his body and we are feelig very optimistic!!0 -
Emroseemrose said:UPDATE
Hello everyone
wanted to give an update:
first, to answer the question of how we knew - my husband had his first post chemo pet scan and somethig lit up on/near the lung. He had an endoscopic ultrasound/biopsy that confirmed it was the colon cancer. The GI who did the biopsy said it looked like a lymph node right outside the esophogus, not an actual mass on the lung.
Fast forward: he had surgery on Tuesday. Turns out there were three small spots on the lung,, one just happened to be the same size and shape as a lymph node. So, turns out it wasn't one distant lymph node afterall. He had a thoroctomy/wedge resection. All three spots were removed with clear margins and all the lymph nodes that he removed were negative! Woohoo! He got home from the hospital yesterday and is doing well, But lots of pain still.
We met with an herbalist who specializes in working with cancer patients and my husband is on tons of suppplements to boost his immne system, weaken any potentially lingering cancer cells, and help him recover from surgery. We are meeting with a couple differet oncologists over thenext several weeks to figure out a plan for doing another round of chemo We had his tumor cells sent to a lab in California to test his resistence and sensitivity to different Chemo drugs. Since he's done folfox and folfiri, he doesn't want to go that route again. We are, however, hoping that he's cancer free now and any further treatment will just be precautionary. He's changing his diet and takig supplements to create an anti cancer environment in his body and we are feelig very optimistic!!
This really is wonderful news for your family. Hopefully, this latest surgery puts an end to things. Just make sure that your oncologist is thoroughly aware of all the suppliments, etc that hubby is taking, just in case they were to interfere with any chemo he may get. Hopefully you can avoid any more chemo but you just do what you have to do. Anti cancer enviornment sounds good now that he has things under control. Best of luck. That baby is really growing, he is spectacular, enjoy him. Does he still hate his bath? I have been reading up on naturalpaths (sp). Just trying to learn all I can but I know this stuff has to stay on the back burner while on chemo and George's chemo is working so we just have to hang in there.
There is a thread on 3/9 "Heres my list". It is a member who finished chemo, had resection, clear scans, and now sees a naturalpath. It is a list of things she is
taking and the meanting behind them. Hope this helps.
Hugs Tina0 -
Emrose
Emrose,
It is good they were able to cut everything out. I hope this is a new beginning for you. Great the your husband is following the Anticancer suggestions. That's where we will be heading in a few weeks.
Aloha,
Kathleen0 -
Hi John23John23 said:Say WHAT?
Re:
"my oncologist says I have no shot at living so no need for surgery. "
How hard did you kick him? I would have drop-kicked that butthole
across town, if I was there. What a jerk.
(Whew... it's gonna' take me most of the morning to settle down from this one)
Listen lexern (can I call ya' lex?), do yourself a majorly big favor,
and get an oncologist with a brain. Don't get one from the same group
or organization, and go out of town, if necessary, but get another
opinion. In fact, plan on getting more opinions than just two.
Yeah, cancer kills, and it'll probably kill me. Maybe. Maybe not.
We'll see. But we all have to go sometime, and I've accepted that.
Well, of course I'm saying that now because that big white light isn't
blinding me at the moment.... but we'll see....
No-one can predict how long we have on the face of this earth; no-one.
There are many here, that have beaten the "odds" that they were told
they have. If that's due to the Cancer Industry's new approach of convincing
patients that the treatments are what's miraculously providing more days
can be debated, but non-the-less, odds have been challenged with
or without mainstream medicine.
So take a really deep breath, and go get other opinions regarding
your cancer condition.
They usually set the cancer staging based on several factors, and
lymph node involvement is only one. They generally take more
than 20 nodes, and if there's 4 or less "involved" it's not a terrible
sign that the cancer's spread too much. More than 4 nodes out
of 20 plus, is usually a sign that the cancer's spread around pretty
well. Is that bad? Well.... yeah. But that's what those nodes do;
they're there to catch bad stuff and hold it inside their lil' jail, until
the good guys come and toss them out of the body. The nodes
are part of our elaborate immune system, and they're doing what
they should be doing.
The problem with present day chemotherapy and radiation, is
that it hasn't changed in over 40 years. They've modified the
amount of chemicals, and are using less.... and using them with
other nifty things in an attempt to get more of the same old
chemicals into the areas where it might do the most good....
But... the chemicals they've used years ago, are basically the same.
The bad part, is that our immune system needs to be beefed up
to fight cancer, and all the chemicals destroy the immune system.
It's kinda' like a lose/lose situation. Our body ends up fighting the
damage from all the chemicals, instead of fighting all the cancer cells,
and we're left with a dependency to the industry to do the fighting
for us. It's sad, but that's really what it's all about.
So get another opinion, and figure out what direction you want
to go. There are different Chemotherapy options, as well as
different alternative medicine options to choose from.
One thing you absolutely -must- keep in mind, is that if the cancer
is located in a spot that will kill you in short order, it must be
removed as quickly as possible.
I had a major tumor that was totally obstructing my colon. There
was an emergency situation, and that obstruction had to be
cleared ASAP. "Alternative medicine" (in my case, TCM), simply
can't do what surgery can do as quickly as surgery can do it.
You have got to find out how quickly your cancer has to be removed;
you have got to know the urgency, to be able to decide your options.
If surgery is needed for survival, do it. If radiation is said to be the
only way, do it. Do whatever it takes to take the urgency away,
but -please- do whatever is needed after getting other opinions.
(unless you're unconscious on a gurney in the ER )
Please let us know how you make out?
(At my age, I always like hearing how people make out)
(ok, I'm a pig)
Good health to you.
John
Still hanging in
Hi John23
Still hanging in there. 4 months of 5fu and last scan indicates only 3 cancerous nodes in neck (largest being the size of a bb) all stomach have resolved and the rectum is half resolved....the Dr was amazed but then stated " I must bring you back into reality, there is no cure and you are terminal"...the good news from the scan turned into a major upset by the word "terminal".. My Dr is at Mayo and one of 8 top colorectal specialists in the world... I am now trying to resolve the "word" in my mind and continue on.
Lexern0 -
Hi emrose from BarcelonaKathleen808 said:Emrose
Emrose,
It is good they were able to cut everything out. I hope this is a new beginning for you. Great the your husband is following the Anticancer suggestions. That's where we will be heading in a few weeks.
Aloha,
Kathleen
I m in similar situation as you are my onc strategy
is smash it with chem folfiri+avastin and then
to irradiate them istead of operare.
Good luck from europe.
Pepe.0
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