Recently diagnosed with Gleason score of 9

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Comments

  • BRONX52
    BRONX52 Member Posts: 156
    SV said:

    Ouch!!!!!
    Had DaVinci surgery 10/19, stayed two nights due to being in extreme pain from the gas. I must have woke up combative during surgery because they dosed me so heavy it took five hours to wake me up. Now feels like I was worked over with a baseball bat from head to foot. Even though I walk several times a day pain is extreme...and I can take a lot of pain. Any suggestions?

    SV
    KEEP WALKING !! I HAD SIMILAR GAS PAINS AND PAIN FROM THE SURGERY BUT I FOUND THAT THE MORE I WALKED EACH DAY MADE THE PAIN GRADUALLY DECREASE. IN NO TIME I WAS PAIN FREE. I DIDN'T WANT TO WALK WHILE I WAS IN PAIN BUT I'M GLAD I DID. GOOD LUCK---DAN
  • SV
    SV Member Posts: 164 Member
    BRONX52 said:

    SV
    KEEP WALKING !! I HAD SIMILAR GAS PAINS AND PAIN FROM THE SURGERY BUT I FOUND THAT THE MORE I WALKED EACH DAY MADE THE PAIN GRADUALLY DECREASE. IN NO TIME I WAS PAIN FREE. I DIDN'T WANT TO WALK WHILE I WAS IN PAIN BUT I'M GLAD I DID. GOOD LUCK---DAN

    Do laxitives help?
    If so, how much and how often? Judging from the type of pain, I am pretty sure that I have some pulled muscles in my back and stomach from when I woke up during surgery and tried to get up.
  • BRONX52
    BRONX52 Member Posts: 156
    SV said:

    Do laxitives help?
    If so, how much and how often? Judging from the type of pain, I am pretty sure that I have some pulled muscles in my back and stomach from when I woke up during surgery and tried to get up.

    SV
    I can't tell you if you have pulled muscles but the pain you are feeling in your back and stomach might be from the position they have to put you in to perform davinci surgery. It's sort of an inverted position which could cause soreness after surgery. You are bringing back alot of memories. I had davinci in Feb and experienced pain in the same areas you described.Even the areas of the incisions were sore, and getting in and out of a chair was quite a challenge as far as pain was concerned. My doc sent me home with pain killers but said that when they run out you would only need over the counter pain medications. I tried to walk at least twice a day and gradually the pain disappeared. Just do as much as you can tolerate but not to the point where you are in extreme pain.I was told to lift no more than 5-10 lbs for at least 6 weeks and then gradually increase from that point on. Just take your time and things should get better. If the pain doesn't go away in a reasonable amount of time then I would give your doc a call.---Dan
  • SV
    SV Member Posts: 164 Member
    BRONX52 said:

    SV
    I can't tell you if you have pulled muscles but the pain you are feeling in your back and stomach might be from the position they have to put you in to perform davinci surgery. It's sort of an inverted position which could cause soreness after surgery. You are bringing back alot of memories. I had davinci in Feb and experienced pain in the same areas you described.Even the areas of the incisions were sore, and getting in and out of a chair was quite a challenge as far as pain was concerned. My doc sent me home with pain killers but said that when they run out you would only need over the counter pain medications. I tried to walk at least twice a day and gradually the pain disappeared. Just do as much as you can tolerate but not to the point where you are in extreme pain.I was told to lift no more than 5-10 lbs for at least 6 weeks and then gradually increase from that point on. Just take your time and things should get better. If the pain doesn't go away in a reasonable amount of time then I would give your doc a call.---Dan

    Getting catheter out today,
    Getting catheter out today, what sort of pads/diapers should I bring?
  • SV
    SV Member Posts: 164 Member
    SV said:

    Getting catheter out today,
    Getting catheter out today, what sort of pads/diapers should I bring?

    Biopsy results:
    Capsule contained
    No seminal vesicle involvement
    All margins clear
    Gleason score lowered from 4+5=9 to 4+3=7
    One and a half nerve bundles remain intact
    Looks like they got it all but Dr. Kawachi ordered a followup PSA test in 2.5 months
    No leakage after catheter removal and have unassisted semi-erections with no attempt to climax because I am still way too sore down there. Will try tonight with Vitamin V.
  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,013 Member
    SV said:

    Biopsy results:
    Capsule contained
    No seminal vesicle involvement
    All margins clear
    Gleason score lowered from 4+5=9 to 4+3=7
    One and a half nerve bundles remain intact
    Looks like they got it all but Dr. Kawachi ordered a followup PSA test in 2.5 months
    No leakage after catheter removal and have unassisted semi-erections with no attempt to climax because I am still way too sore down there. Will try tonight with Vitamin V.

    Congratulations!
    Best wishes and good luck with your recovery.
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166 Member
    SV said:

    Biopsy results:
    Capsule contained
    No seminal vesicle involvement
    All margins clear
    Gleason score lowered from 4+5=9 to 4+3=7
    One and a half nerve bundles remain intact
    Looks like they got it all but Dr. Kawachi ordered a followup PSA test in 2.5 months
    No leakage after catheter removal and have unassisted semi-erections with no attempt to climax because I am still way too sore down there. Will try tonight with Vitamin V.

    Great News
    SV:

    Great news on the results of your surgery. I'm glad it was downgraded somewhat from your initial diagnosis. Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery.
  • bdhilton
    bdhilton Member Posts: 803 Member
    SV said:

    Biopsy results:
    Capsule contained
    No seminal vesicle involvement
    All margins clear
    Gleason score lowered from 4+5=9 to 4+3=7
    One and a half nerve bundles remain intact
    Looks like they got it all but Dr. Kawachi ordered a followup PSA test in 2.5 months
    No leakage after catheter removal and have unassisted semi-erections with no attempt to climax because I am still way too sore down there. Will try tonight with Vitamin V.

    You are a very blessed
    You are a very blessed man...I am happy you selected surgery because you now you know 100% that your cancer was down graded and where you are with this beast...I am really happy for you...

    Hey now you got to light a candle, walk and walk and walk, consider make some diet changes, enjoy life a bit more and support yoiur favor PCa foundation so we can kill this beast...

    Best to all
  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
    SV said:

    Biopsy results:
    Capsule contained
    No seminal vesicle involvement
    All margins clear
    Gleason score lowered from 4+5=9 to 4+3=7
    One and a half nerve bundles remain intact
    Looks like they got it all but Dr. Kawachi ordered a followup PSA test in 2.5 months
    No leakage after catheter removal and have unassisted semi-erections with no attempt to climax because I am still way too sore down there. Will try tonight with Vitamin V.

    Great news
    BDH gave great advice.....exercise and eat healthy...heart healthy is prostate healthy...take care of your self....................think positive every day and avoid stress from your life.........
  • SV
    SV Member Posts: 164 Member

    Great news
    BDH gave great advice.....exercise and eat healthy...heart healthy is prostate healthy...take care of your self....................think positive every day and avoid stress from your life.........

    Thanks guys. I do indeed
    Thanks guys. I do indeed feel blessed, but also more a believer in positive thinking than ever. True, I did change my diet to eliminate an already low sugar intake, ditch red meat and dairy products while loading up on licapene via two cups a day of cooked tomatoes. Neither Dr. Kawachi, nor my original urologist has ever heard of a biopsy report with a Gleason score lowered two points in a post pathology report. Even when going up, it is usually only by one point.

    On the morning of surgery, as they were sticking the IVs in, I told Dr. Kawachi in no uncertain terms that my cancer was already in remission and that I was only going through with the procedure to humor him. The other doctor smiled and said that everyone loves a positive attitude. But I corrected her and said this goes beyond positive attitude, this is my belief. Period.

    Ten years ago, I was taken prisoner in the Colombian civil war, tortured for five weeks, lost fifty pounds and nearly died. Almost under my own power, (over the side of a mule) I managed to walk out alive and stay that way, both physically and mentally. To remain halfway sane, I kept telling myself that if I can survive this, I can survive anything. And now that is confirmed. The power of the mind is absolute.

    The only reason I relate this story is to help anyone else out there equally as scared as I was the first twenty four hours. After that, I took control of this hideous disease and willed it down to a manageable level for surgery. And yes of course I realize that there is a chance the monster could return...but not in my case. We have changed our diet and remain in rock solid belief the beast is gone forever. Period.

    Along the every challenge and crisis that is laid upon us doing our short stay on earth, we also are provided the tools to prevail. The choice is ours, lay down and die or stand up and fight. So I say to all of you debating which remedy is best, pick one and believe. And if you have already chosen, stand by your decision and do not waver. Something about "With the faith of a mustard seed..."

    Persevere my brothers, persevere.
  • bdhilton
    bdhilton Member Posts: 803 Member
    SV said:

    Thanks guys. I do indeed
    Thanks guys. I do indeed feel blessed, but also more a believer in positive thinking than ever. True, I did change my diet to eliminate an already low sugar intake, ditch red meat and dairy products while loading up on licapene via two cups a day of cooked tomatoes. Neither Dr. Kawachi, nor my original urologist has ever heard of a biopsy report with a Gleason score lowered two points in a post pathology report. Even when going up, it is usually only by one point.

    On the morning of surgery, as they were sticking the IVs in, I told Dr. Kawachi in no uncertain terms that my cancer was already in remission and that I was only going through with the procedure to humor him. The other doctor smiled and said that everyone loves a positive attitude. But I corrected her and said this goes beyond positive attitude, this is my belief. Period.

    Ten years ago, I was taken prisoner in the Colombian civil war, tortured for five weeks, lost fifty pounds and nearly died. Almost under my own power, (over the side of a mule) I managed to walk out alive and stay that way, both physically and mentally. To remain halfway sane, I kept telling myself that if I can survive this, I can survive anything. And now that is confirmed. The power of the mind is absolute.

    The only reason I relate this story is to help anyone else out there equally as scared as I was the first twenty four hours. After that, I took control of this hideous disease and willed it down to a manageable level for surgery. And yes of course I realize that there is a chance the monster could return...but not in my case. We have changed our diet and remain in rock solid belief the beast is gone forever. Period.

    Along the every challenge and crisis that is laid upon us doing our short stay on earth, we also are provided the tools to prevail. The choice is ours, lay down and die or stand up and fight. So I say to all of you debating which remedy is best, pick one and believe. And if you have already chosen, stand by your decision and do not waver. Something about "With the faith of a mustard seed..."

    Persevere my brothers, persevere.

    Yes I understand and totally
    Yes I understand and totally believe in “With the faith of a mustard seed...” from past life experiences… I first saw my mother do this over 26 years ago with multiple myeloma (she is still with us at 85 and is beyond active)…Diet and positive thinking has keep this at bay with no treatments (yes she sees a oncologist 2 times a year)…I am a big believer in believing…

    Peace to all
  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
    SV said:

    Thanks guys. I do indeed
    Thanks guys. I do indeed feel blessed, but also more a believer in positive thinking than ever. True, I did change my diet to eliminate an already low sugar intake, ditch red meat and dairy products while loading up on licapene via two cups a day of cooked tomatoes. Neither Dr. Kawachi, nor my original urologist has ever heard of a biopsy report with a Gleason score lowered two points in a post pathology report. Even when going up, it is usually only by one point.

    On the morning of surgery, as they were sticking the IVs in, I told Dr. Kawachi in no uncertain terms that my cancer was already in remission and that I was only going through with the procedure to humor him. The other doctor smiled and said that everyone loves a positive attitude. But I corrected her and said this goes beyond positive attitude, this is my belief. Period.

    Ten years ago, I was taken prisoner in the Colombian civil war, tortured for five weeks, lost fifty pounds and nearly died. Almost under my own power, (over the side of a mule) I managed to walk out alive and stay that way, both physically and mentally. To remain halfway sane, I kept telling myself that if I can survive this, I can survive anything. And now that is confirmed. The power of the mind is absolute.

    The only reason I relate this story is to help anyone else out there equally as scared as I was the first twenty four hours. After that, I took control of this hideous disease and willed it down to a manageable level for surgery. And yes of course I realize that there is a chance the monster could return...but not in my case. We have changed our diet and remain in rock solid belief the beast is gone forever. Period.

    Along the every challenge and crisis that is laid upon us doing our short stay on earth, we also are provided the tools to prevail. The choice is ours, lay down and die or stand up and fight. So I say to all of you debating which remedy is best, pick one and believe. And if you have already chosen, stand by your decision and do not waver. Something about "With the faith of a mustard seed..."

    Persevere my brothers, persevere.

    Gleason score lowering after surgery
    Many times we recommend that there be a second opinion by an expert of the pathology that is taken, since it is complicated to determine a gleason score........I wonder, did you have a second opinion of the pathology from your biopsy?

    Thank you for posting your story of hope and positive thinking
  • SV
    SV Member Posts: 164 Member

    Gleason score lowering after surgery
    Many times we recommend that there be a second opinion by an expert of the pathology that is taken, since it is complicated to determine a gleason score........I wonder, did you have a second opinion of the pathology from your biopsy?

    Thank you for posting your story of hope and positive thinking

    Although I am not certain if
    Although I am not certain if City of Hope reevaluated my original G9 score from Bostwick and concurred, but Bostwick is a well known lab specializing in prostate cancer, and them being far off the mark is highly unlikely. Even when biopsies are double-checked by another lab, I have never heard of one being more than one Gleason grade off and that is always upward! Mine went down two points, so think about that.

    Equally astounded because my pre-op prophesy came true, my surgeon, Dr. Kawachi, did not know what to say nor could he offer an explanation. But I can. Faith and the power of positive thought combined with actively attempting to control the beast with proper diet and life style changes. (One tool does not work without the others.)

    When reviewing this site and others, I am stunned to hear the complaints of guys with prostate cancer pissing and moaning about giving up their ice cream and cigarettes--most who have not even done it yet! It is these men who have all the doubts about how I beat my disease. Once diagnosed, if you are not immediately researching 24/7, your chances for survival will surely just be based on what is typical according to statistics. The choice is ours, stand up and fight or lay down and die.
  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
    SV said:

    Although I am not certain if
    Although I am not certain if City of Hope reevaluated my original G9 score from Bostwick and concurred, but Bostwick is a well known lab specializing in prostate cancer, and them being far off the mark is highly unlikely. Even when biopsies are double-checked by another lab, I have never heard of one being more than one Gleason grade off and that is always upward! Mine went down two points, so think about that.

    Equally astounded because my pre-op prophesy came true, my surgeon, Dr. Kawachi, did not know what to say nor could he offer an explanation. But I can. Faith and the power of positive thought combined with actively attempting to control the beast with proper diet and life style changes. (One tool does not work without the others.)

    When reviewing this site and others, I am stunned to hear the complaints of guys with prostate cancer pissing and moaning about giving up their ice cream and cigarettes--most who have not even done it yet! It is these men who have all the doubts about how I beat my disease. Once diagnosed, if you are not immediately researching 24/7, your chances for survival will surely just be based on what is typical according to statistics. The choice is ours, stand up and fight or lay down and die.

    Cancer Warriors
    ...that's what we are.............(by the way, I beleive that the former sec of state under Bush, came up with the phase(I forget his name now))

    Bostwick, as I understand is an excellent lab..........but , people make mistakes.

    Your right, people moan and groan about life changes, and quite often do not make them...I'm glad that you are making these life changes, which are heart healthy...we are more likely to die from heart disease rather than prostate disease.

    By the way, how many surgeries has Dr. Kawachi done now. He and his patner Wilson have a very good rep...........Also what was your opinion of the hospital support staff?
  • bdhilton
    bdhilton Member Posts: 803 Member
    SV said:

    Although I am not certain if
    Although I am not certain if City of Hope reevaluated my original G9 score from Bostwick and concurred, but Bostwick is a well known lab specializing in prostate cancer, and them being far off the mark is highly unlikely. Even when biopsies are double-checked by another lab, I have never heard of one being more than one Gleason grade off and that is always upward! Mine went down two points, so think about that.

    Equally astounded because my pre-op prophesy came true, my surgeon, Dr. Kawachi, did not know what to say nor could he offer an explanation. But I can. Faith and the power of positive thought combined with actively attempting to control the beast with proper diet and life style changes. (One tool does not work without the others.)

    When reviewing this site and others, I am stunned to hear the complaints of guys with prostate cancer pissing and moaning about giving up their ice cream and cigarettes--most who have not even done it yet! It is these men who have all the doubts about how I beat my disease. Once diagnosed, if you are not immediately researching 24/7, your chances for survival will surely just be based on what is typical according to statistics. The choice is ours, stand up and fight or lay down and die.

    Big believer in diet and
    Big believer in diet and exercise…they are the only two things you control with this beast-peace
  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
    bdhilton said:

    Big believer in diet and
    Big believer in diet and exercise…they are the only two things you control with this beast-peace

    not only prostate cancer, but
    heart disease, by far the number one killer of men; diabetics, colon cancer, etc, etc. Also quality of living is lot better among those exercise and eat right than among those who do not.....Like you, I have been eating right and exercising most of my life.
  • bdhilton
    bdhilton Member Posts: 803 Member

    not only prostate cancer, but
    heart disease, by far the number one killer of men; diabetics, colon cancer, etc, etc. Also quality of living is lot better among those exercise and eat right than among those who do not.....Like you, I have been eating right and exercising most of my life.

    One thing for sure is that
    One thing for sure is that we are all in a lottery-the ultimate game of chance, and someday our luck will run out. Everybody dies. There's nothing we can do about it...so in the mean time live well and enjoy...
  • SV
    SV Member Posts: 164 Member
    bdhilton said:

    One thing for sure is that
    One thing for sure is that we are all in a lottery-the ultimate game of chance, and someday our luck will run out. Everybody dies. There's nothing we can do about it...so in the mean time live well and enjoy...

    "By the way, how many
    "By the way, how many surgeries has Dr. Kawachi done now. He and his partner Wilson have a very good rep...........Also what was your opinion of the hospital support staff?"

    After being recommended by so many other California urologists and asking a staff member that question, I was only told that Dr. Kawachi has done thousands. From what I hear, Dr. Wilson is a good surgeon also.

    City of Hope was indeed a pioneer in robotic surgery, even ahead of Mayo on that, but as I was warned, the follow up is not so good. Because Dr. Kawachi is in such demand, he is doing three surgeries per day, several days a week. This means another doctor does his pre-op and post-op, while he does meet clients for initial consultations. But I knew that going in and that is fine with me because as long as I had the best surgeon, I could handle the rest of what amounts to hand-holding.

    I also discovered years ago, that specialists only know their field. When asking a knee once surgeon, "What about rehab?" He indicated that he had no clue because his job was only knee surgery. He was also the best man at that time for surgical repairs but I doubt he could fix a broken arm. And that is what I wanted for yanking out my prostate...someone who lives and breathes nothing but prostate removal 24/7. This is why so many surgeons know zero about diet and nutrition, it is simply not their field of study. They only believe in published double-blind studies and so forth.

    The power of positive thought is like magnetism and gravity, we know it exists, but no scientist can explain it. For me, I target everything I do and state exactly what I intend to accomplish. That is step one, to be followed by action. I spoke firmly to medical staff that they would discover in my post biopsy report, a lowered Gleason score. I stated that I would be continent when the catheter came out. And the biggest relief was last night when I stated that at twelve days past surgery, I would have successful intercourse (Vitamin V assisted) with my woman. This is after riding my motorcycle the day after catheter removal, a day at the gym (ever so lightly) and yesterday, thirty minutes on the elliptical machine. I decided several decades ago that to be successful in life, I must do everything that I state I will do-- goals large or small.

    Sometimes we just gotta bite the bullet...and DO IT!
  • SV
    SV Member Posts: 164 Member
    SV said:

    "By the way, how many
    "By the way, how many surgeries has Dr. Kawachi done now. He and his partner Wilson have a very good rep...........Also what was your opinion of the hospital support staff?"

    After being recommended by so many other California urologists and asking a staff member that question, I was only told that Dr. Kawachi has done thousands. From what I hear, Dr. Wilson is a good surgeon also.

    City of Hope was indeed a pioneer in robotic surgery, even ahead of Mayo on that, but as I was warned, the follow up is not so good. Because Dr. Kawachi is in such demand, he is doing three surgeries per day, several days a week. This means another doctor does his pre-op and post-op, while he does meet clients for initial consultations. But I knew that going in and that is fine with me because as long as I had the best surgeon, I could handle the rest of what amounts to hand-holding.

    I also discovered years ago, that specialists only know their field. When asking a knee once surgeon, "What about rehab?" He indicated that he had no clue because his job was only knee surgery. He was also the best man at that time for surgical repairs but I doubt he could fix a broken arm. And that is what I wanted for yanking out my prostate...someone who lives and breathes nothing but prostate removal 24/7. This is why so many surgeons know zero about diet and nutrition, it is simply not their field of study. They only believe in published double-blind studies and so forth.

    The power of positive thought is like magnetism and gravity, we know it exists, but no scientist can explain it. For me, I target everything I do and state exactly what I intend to accomplish. That is step one, to be followed by action. I spoke firmly to medical staff that they would discover in my post biopsy report, a lowered Gleason score. I stated that I would be continent when the catheter came out. And the biggest relief was last night when I stated that at twelve days past surgery, I would have successful intercourse (Vitamin V assisted) with my woman. This is after riding my motorcycle the day after catheter removal, a day at the gym (ever so lightly) and yesterday, thirty minutes on the elliptical machine. I decided several decades ago that to be successful in life, I must do everything that I state I will do-- goals large or small.

    Sometimes we just gotta bite the bullet...and DO IT!

    Test results in...
    Since I will be having another urologist closer to my home do my followup, I picked up my own 6 week PSA test results today. My score was <0.1 using Siemens Advia Centaur Chemiluminescent method. (There was also a tiny number one written up to the right of the number one) Is this good news or bad news?

    For a little over a month now I have been working out every day and having nightly intercourse with a 3/4, Viagra-assisted, erection. Maybe once a day if I swing a leg around too quick I dribble a few drops but other than that, I am fully continent. Down at the dojo last week I tested myself for wrestling to see if I could hold a two hundred pound man with his weighted knee in my belly. This went well until I asked him to bounce, causing a slight leakage with some lower abdominal pain. I am not positive but I suspect that I might also leak a few drops during intercourse or while climaxing. Is this normal?
  • SV
    SV Member Posts: 164 Member
    SV said:

    "By the way, how many
    "By the way, how many surgeries has Dr. Kawachi done now. He and his partner Wilson have a very good rep...........Also what was your opinion of the hospital support staff?"

    After being recommended by so many other California urologists and asking a staff member that question, I was only told that Dr. Kawachi has done thousands. From what I hear, Dr. Wilson is a good surgeon also.

    City of Hope was indeed a pioneer in robotic surgery, even ahead of Mayo on that, but as I was warned, the follow up is not so good. Because Dr. Kawachi is in such demand, he is doing three surgeries per day, several days a week. This means another doctor does his pre-op and post-op, while he does meet clients for initial consultations. But I knew that going in and that is fine with me because as long as I had the best surgeon, I could handle the rest of what amounts to hand-holding.

    I also discovered years ago, that specialists only know their field. When asking a knee once surgeon, "What about rehab?" He indicated that he had no clue because his job was only knee surgery. He was also the best man at that time for surgical repairs but I doubt he could fix a broken arm. And that is what I wanted for yanking out my prostate...someone who lives and breathes nothing but prostate removal 24/7. This is why so many surgeons know zero about diet and nutrition, it is simply not their field of study. They only believe in published double-blind studies and so forth.

    The power of positive thought is like magnetism and gravity, we know it exists, but no scientist can explain it. For me, I target everything I do and state exactly what I intend to accomplish. That is step one, to be followed by action. I spoke firmly to medical staff that they would discover in my post biopsy report, a lowered Gleason score. I stated that I would be continent when the catheter came out. And the biggest relief was last night when I stated that at twelve days past surgery, I would have successful intercourse (Vitamin V assisted) with my woman. This is after riding my motorcycle the day after catheter removal, a day at the gym (ever so lightly) and yesterday, thirty minutes on the elliptical machine. I decided several decades ago that to be successful in life, I must do everything that I state I will do-- goals large or small.

    Sometimes we just gotta bite the bullet...and DO IT!

    Good news
    After reading conflicting opinions about Gleason scores, until today I was not sure what the difference was between <0.1 and <0.01. My new followup urologist confirmed that they both mean the same...as in none detectable. Whew!

    I have discovered though that riding a motorcycle causes me to leak a few drops when getting on and off and sometimes when standing up or sitting down. This did not occur until I started riding for more than an hour at a time so it is a step backwards. Looks like I will have to customize the seat by hollowing out a section to relieve the pressure where my prostate used to be and is now irritating my sphincter.