Destiny or free will?

Marcia527
Marcia527 Member Posts: 2,729
I'm torn. Sometimes I believe one and sometimes the other. I've had experiences which point to both! So is some things destiny and we have free will over other things? I'd like to know what others think.
«1

Comments

  • Noellesmom
    Noellesmom Member Posts: 1,859 Member
    Free will
    I believe God knows all but He made us creatures of free will.
  • sea60
    sea60 Member Posts: 2,613
    I agree
    We have the free will to choose however God already knows the outcome.
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    Torn? Sew what...
    Ha-ha...
    I believe we have free will. I do not think that things are destined to happen at all. I think very much (if not all) is random with no one/being knowing or planning any outcome.
  • RE
    RE Member Posts: 4,591 Member
    Six of One Half a Dozen of Another
    I think you answered your own question, it is exactly what I was going to say. God gave us free will, the right to choose when destiny comes a knocking. Just because it may be right or good for us does not mean we're gonna choose it. By the way I love your new picture, quite nice!

    (¯`v´¯)
    .`*.¸.*RE´
  • soccerfreaks
    soccerfreaks Member Posts: 2,788 Member
    hmmm
    I wanted to say 'free will', but I couldn't.

    Take care,

    Joe
  • ms.sunshine
    ms.sunshine Member Posts: 707 Member

    hmmm
    I wanted to say 'free will', but I couldn't.

    Take care,

    Joe

    Free Will
    You have the freedom to choose. To make decisions.
  • Free Will
    You have the freedom to choose. To make decisions.

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • Marcia527
    Marcia527 Member Posts: 2,729
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    So you think sometimes an
    So you think sometimes an angel is sent to help us? I think so sometimes but don't understand why some people get help and others don't'. Once I was almost in a car accident that probably I would not have survived. I saw the vehicle coming and decided to try and get out of the way. I could not take my foot off the brake. Which was fortunate because they swerved and missed me completely. My brain told me to move it and I couldn't. I don't know why. It wasn't fear cause I had thought processes before hand and didn't think about fear. Just survival. My son was in the car with me. I'll probably never know at least as long as I live.
  • Marcia527 said:

    So you think sometimes an
    So you think sometimes an angel is sent to help us? I think so sometimes but don't understand why some people get help and others don't'. Once I was almost in a car accident that probably I would not have survived. I saw the vehicle coming and decided to try and get out of the way. I could not take my foot off the brake. Which was fortunate because they swerved and missed me completely. My brain told me to move it and I couldn't. I don't know why. It wasn't fear cause I had thought processes before hand and didn't think about fear. Just survival. My son was in the car with me. I'll probably never know at least as long as I live.

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • sea60
    sea60 Member Posts: 2,613
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    I always thank God daily for His Word:
    God commands His angels to go before you, carrying you, not even letting your foot stike a stone. I cover myself, my family, friends each and every day with this promise and I believe it. Like you Marcia, I've had more than one close call which could have been disasterous. But He commands his angels...isn't that the most awesome thing? It wasn't my time yet...it wasn't yours.

    I can't say some people have angels while others don't. But I believe what His Word says... He WILL do.

    His Word will not fail or forsake.

    Blessings,

    Sylvia
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    Hi Babs
    I guess having your Guardian Angel by your shoulder is better than having them at the "other end". I feel that whatever gives you comfort and does no harm to others is great! I've had plenty of things that happen to me that are hard to explain. I tend to think that it has more to to with parallel universes and sometime things/people cross over to our universe. Weird??? Yup but no weirder than angels to me.

    I also have people praying for me all over the place. I receive it as being sent positive energy. There is comfort in it for sure. I just don't take the various religions as facts. I understand them to be myths which have been part of humankind since caveman days. As a species it's part of who we are I believe.

    But also Babs, many other people are prayed for and do not do well with their cancer. Here I am, not of any faith and questioning the whole religion thing, and I'm doing very well with all of my treatments. One might think that a "believer" would get preference over an agnostic/atheist.

    I'm glad things are going well Babs, that's what matters with all of us I think.
    -p
  • PhillieG said:

    Hi Babs
    I guess having your Guardian Angel by your shoulder is better than having them at the "other end". I feel that whatever gives you comfort and does no harm to others is great! I've had plenty of things that happen to me that are hard to explain. I tend to think that it has more to to with parallel universes and sometime things/people cross over to our universe. Weird??? Yup but no weirder than angels to me.

    I also have people praying for me all over the place. I receive it as being sent positive energy. There is comfort in it for sure. I just don't take the various religions as facts. I understand them to be myths which have been part of humankind since caveman days. As a species it's part of who we are I believe.

    But also Babs, many other people are prayed for and do not do well with their cancer. Here I am, not of any faith and questioning the whole religion thing, and I'm doing very well with all of my treatments. One might think that a "believer" would get preference over an agnostic/atheist.

    I'm glad things are going well Babs, that's what matters with all of us I think.
    -p

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • Marcia527
    Marcia527 Member Posts: 2,729
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    I have trouble believing in
    I have trouble believing in parallel universes. Can't wrap my brain around that one.
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    Babs
    I hope I didn't sound like I thought you thought that God punishes or gives cancer. My point was that there are people who have incredibly strong faith yet it might seem like their prayers go unanswered. I don't know either why some people survive cancer and others don't. I do believe attitude has a lot to do with it but I'm sure many people with good attitudes die and many with just "attitudes" survive. Cancer isn't just one disease, it's many with many causes. That's what makes it so hard to battle.

    There is a saying, I do not know who said it first but it goes something like this: "Mythology is someone else's religion". What I get from that statement is that what I believe is true but what someone else believes is not true and therefore can be considered a myth (for arguments sake I'll use Christianity and Judaism). I think we all want to believe that what we believe is "right" and we will be rewarded for following that path. There are some out there who believe that those who believe differently will not be rewarded and possibly even punished. I have a hard time accepting that way of thinking but it's been the basis for countless wars throughout history and is still going on today with various genocides that are based on ethnic cleansing and also loosely with terrorists. I think that case has less to do with religion and more to do with government policies. The extremists hijacked the faith.

    As far as religions being myths, yes...I believe that (most all if not all) religions use stories to teach lessons. I do not believe they are based on actual events or facts at all. I do not believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, nor do I believe the story of Adam and Eve and that everyone came from them. I believe them to be stories that are meant to teach us something or to explain things that people did not understand at the time at all.

    Dictionary.com defines Myth as "a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature."
    It defines Religion as "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

    I know the whole string theory stuff is pretty far out. I do not understand a lot about it but I have many strange things that happen to me that are hard to blow off as just coincidences. Not any earth-shattering things but simple decisions that I make that may have been decided based on a "gut feeling" or just the timing of events. It's hard to explain and even harder to understand. There is a lot more going on than what meets the eye though. I certainly do not think that believing in God is strange at all. It's the people who KNOW that they know all of the answers and leave nothing open to a belief that someone else may have (or millions of people may have) that I find strange and disturbing.
  • PhillieG said:

    Babs
    I hope I didn't sound like I thought you thought that God punishes or gives cancer. My point was that there are people who have incredibly strong faith yet it might seem like their prayers go unanswered. I don't know either why some people survive cancer and others don't. I do believe attitude has a lot to do with it but I'm sure many people with good attitudes die and many with just "attitudes" survive. Cancer isn't just one disease, it's many with many causes. That's what makes it so hard to battle.

    There is a saying, I do not know who said it first but it goes something like this: "Mythology is someone else's religion". What I get from that statement is that what I believe is true but what someone else believes is not true and therefore can be considered a myth (for arguments sake I'll use Christianity and Judaism). I think we all want to believe that what we believe is "right" and we will be rewarded for following that path. There are some out there who believe that those who believe differently will not be rewarded and possibly even punished. I have a hard time accepting that way of thinking but it's been the basis for countless wars throughout history and is still going on today with various genocides that are based on ethnic cleansing and also loosely with terrorists. I think that case has less to do with religion and more to do with government policies. The extremists hijacked the faith.

    As far as religions being myths, yes...I believe that (most all if not all) religions use stories to teach lessons. I do not believe they are based on actual events or facts at all. I do not believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, nor do I believe the story of Adam and Eve and that everyone came from them. I believe them to be stories that are meant to teach us something or to explain things that people did not understand at the time at all.

    Dictionary.com defines Myth as "a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature."
    It defines Religion as "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

    I know the whole string theory stuff is pretty far out. I do not understand a lot about it but I have many strange things that happen to me that are hard to blow off as just coincidences. Not any earth-shattering things but simple decisions that I make that may have been decided based on a "gut feeling" or just the timing of events. It's hard to explain and even harder to understand. There is a lot more going on than what meets the eye though. I certainly do not think that believing in God is strange at all. It's the people who KNOW that they know all of the answers and leave nothing open to a belief that someone else may have (or millions of people may have) that I find strange and disturbing.

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    Oh Sure
    You're just trying to put me at ease before you attack me!!!! That's the oldest trick in the book Babs.
    ;-)
    I think that the majority of people are good no matter what their faith is. I live close to NYC and I am surprised how the ground zero mosque/center went from a project that was endorsed by all faiths at first and then into this political hot potato that really goes against what the USA is supposed to stand for. Freedom of religion and of speech. No one got upset that there is a mosque inside the pentagon about 80 ft from where one of the planes crashed.

    I really like this guy, Joseph Campbell, who was a noted theologian, philosopher, teacher and all around "nice guy". He passed away in the late 1980s I believe but he wrote many books about religions/myths/God(s) and does an interesting job of finding similarities in various faiths. he's more than how I described him too. He also did an interview with Bill Moyers that still runs on PS from time to time called the Power of Myth. If you ever get a chance to watch it I think you'd enjoy it.
    Campbell wrote once that "God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought." Like you said, I don't think we can understand God or the origins of the universe if it's not created by God. It's some really complex stuff. Saying one believes in this or that is meaningless I think if you do not follow it up with actions. I think someone is much better off living honestly and doing no harm to others than they are giving themselves a label as a religious person yet being a bigot or dishonest in their lives.

    On a sort of side note, I was watching The Daily Show last night and they had this author on, Sam Harris who wrote a book "The Moral Landscape" about how science has nothing to say about humans and their moral responsibility to humankind and how it's been left up to religions to determine that. It sounds like an interesting read to me but I tend to like books that question religion. One point that he made that stuck out for me was that in the bible, they talk about the morality of slavery. That's a pretty basic concept that seems to OK for people to have practiced. Nowadays it's rather obvious that any form of slavery is morally wrong.

    Another thing I listened to at 3 am (couldn't sleep) was a BBC interview with Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who was going to burn the Koran on 9/11. He was interviewed by a British reporter for the BBC who did not think too highly of Mr Jones. I did find it interesting that Mr. Jones never read any of the Koran yet he was told by the bible (and by God he said) that it is evil and it should be destroyed. There was a man who was so solid in his belief that he didn't even need to read anything in order to know what he had to do. I think he gives the faith a bad name as do the TV evangelists who tell people to send money, even if they are in debt and have to put it on their credit cards. I have seen them actually tell people to do that and that God will give them more money in return. I know that no one has a gun to their heads but WOW...

    I guess I'm just one of those who will always question religion and it's place in society. But back to the beginning of this. Babs, I'm sure you are a very nice person and I do not feel threatened by you at all. I am glad that you have your faith and that you live your life to help others. That's the best any of us can do....
    Peace
    -phil
    Sorry to ramble on and on here. this could have been 3 or 4 different posts I think!
  • tommybear
    tommybear Member Posts: 111 Member
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    I agree that it all boils down to faith...
    Regardless of where your faith lies...And love, love, love!


    I guess I do believe there are reasons for things. Not that we always will know right away, or that we will make the "correct" decisions. Too many things have happened in my lifetime that I feel like I have not had any choices....Too many things that have caused people pain and things that have caused happpiness. And I don't feel like I have had much to do with any of it. It just sort of happens and I keep moving along. I have a choice on how I deal with what is handed to me. (The only thing that I do know is that my children are meant to be here and that is a definite reason for me to be here!)

    Do you think that praying or asking for certain outcomes is selfish? I sometimes don't ask for healing or positive things. Who am I to know that is what is supposed to be? I guess it is back to the "Destiny or free will". If my destiny is to die from whatever I have, then who am I to ask for something otherwise? I don't fight those things, but do not sit around and count on the "prayers". I do ask for help, peace and strength and the "wisdom to the know the difference". Like Phil had said, I accept the prayers as positive energy (was raised Baptist) and know that is only good that people think of others and want to send thoughts and prayers as gifts.

    Wow, my Southern Baptist dad would have a fit if he read this...

    Sorry for the rambling...this is kind of a deep subject...

    Michele S.
  • tommybear
    tommybear Member Posts: 111 Member
    PhillieG said:

    Oh Sure
    You're just trying to put me at ease before you attack me!!!! That's the oldest trick in the book Babs.
    ;-)
    I think that the majority of people are good no matter what their faith is. I live close to NYC and I am surprised how the ground zero mosque/center went from a project that was endorsed by all faiths at first and then into this political hot potato that really goes against what the USA is supposed to stand for. Freedom of religion and of speech. No one got upset that there is a mosque inside the pentagon about 80 ft from where one of the planes crashed.

    I really like this guy, Joseph Campbell, who was a noted theologian, philosopher, teacher and all around "nice guy". He passed away in the late 1980s I believe but he wrote many books about religions/myths/God(s) and does an interesting job of finding similarities in various faiths. he's more than how I described him too. He also did an interview with Bill Moyers that still runs on PS from time to time called the Power of Myth. If you ever get a chance to watch it I think you'd enjoy it.
    Campbell wrote once that "God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought." Like you said, I don't think we can understand God or the origins of the universe if it's not created by God. It's some really complex stuff. Saying one believes in this or that is meaningless I think if you do not follow it up with actions. I think someone is much better off living honestly and doing no harm to others than they are giving themselves a label as a religious person yet being a bigot or dishonest in their lives.

    On a sort of side note, I was watching The Daily Show last night and they had this author on, Sam Harris who wrote a book "The Moral Landscape" about how science has nothing to say about humans and their moral responsibility to humankind and how it's been left up to religions to determine that. It sounds like an interesting read to me but I tend to like books that question religion. One point that he made that stuck out for me was that in the bible, they talk about the morality of slavery. That's a pretty basic concept that seems to OK for people to have practiced. Nowadays it's rather obvious that any form of slavery is morally wrong.

    Another thing I listened to at 3 am (couldn't sleep) was a BBC interview with Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who was going to burn the Koran on 9/11. He was interviewed by a British reporter for the BBC who did not think too highly of Mr Jones. I did find it interesting that Mr. Jones never read any of the Koran yet he was told by the bible (and by God he said) that it is evil and it should be destroyed. There was a man who was so solid in his belief that he didn't even need to read anything in order to know what he had to do. I think he gives the faith a bad name as do the TV evangelists who tell people to send money, even if they are in debt and have to put it on their credit cards. I have seen them actually tell people to do that and that God will give them more money in return. I know that no one has a gun to their heads but WOW...

    I guess I'm just one of those who will always question religion and it's place in society. But back to the beginning of this. Babs, I'm sure you are a very nice person and I do not feel threatened by you at all. I am glad that you have your faith and that you live your life to help others. That's the best any of us can do....
    Peace
    -phil
    Sorry to ramble on and on here. this could have been 3 or 4 different posts I think!

    Funny...
    My brother in law just gave me the book "Power of Myth" by Joseph Campbell. I'll definitely have to take a look at it.

    And, yes, how many good, loving people I know that are not "religious", opposed to the evil people that are still attending church.

    Why can't we all just be good, peaceful and loving? It's not really that difficult.

    Michele S.
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    tommybear said:

    Funny...
    My brother in law just gave me the book "Power of Myth" by Joseph Campbell. I'll definitely have to take a look at it.

    And, yes, how many good, loving people I know that are not "religious", opposed to the evil people that are still attending church.

    Why can't we all just be good, peaceful and loving? It's not really that difficult.

    Michele S.

    It's so easy
    a caveman can do it!
    Getting along is not hard if one treats others as they wish to be treated.

    I hope you enjoy the book. I really love that one, the TV interview was great too. It's interesting how similar the religions really are.
    -phil
  • mariam_11_09
    mariam_11_09 Member Posts: 691
    Marcia, what do you mean by
    Marcia, what do you mean by 'free will'? Will that is independant and seperate from 'Holy' Will or 'God's' Will?

    What about in the Lords Prayer - 'Thy Will be done' and the expression 'God Willing'. God willing we live .....or die.