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Bleeding like a stuck pig....

just4Brooks's picture
just4Brooks
Posts: 988
Joined: Jun 2009

It's been just over 2 weeks sense my last chemo treatment. This week I've had three nose bleeds and last night I scraped the back of my hand and you would have thought that I might bleed to death. LOL. Is this normal after/during chemo?

Bleeding like a stuck pig

Brooks

tootsie1's picture
tootsie1
Posts: 5056
Joined: Feb 2008

As you may remember, I have not had chemo, so I'm no authority, but I believe I'd contact your doctor to be sure that's normal.

*hugs*
Gail

Patteee's picture
Patteee
Posts: 950
Joined: Jul 2009

what have your platelet counts been ?

dianetavegia's picture
dianetavegia
Posts: 1953
Joined: Mar 2009

I had regular blood tests two weeks after chemo ended because I was going to the dentist. Now, I've had nose bleeds but I also had my four months blood test a couple of weeks ago (all fine) and am taking daily aspirin... but have not bled a lot when cut.

I'd call your primary care doctor or onc tomorrow and get a platelet count done.

jillpls's picture
jillpls
Posts: 241
Joined: Mar 2008

HI, I too get nose bleeds and I know it's in part to the chemo and Avastin. But to help I keep a tea pot on the pellet stove when it's going to keep moisture in the air. I also use "ocean spray". It's a nose spray that helps keep the sinuses moist. You can get it at any grocery store or pharmacy. It does help.

Buzzard's picture
Buzzard
Posts: 3073
Joined: Aug 2008

bled profusely at times and for some reason now I can scrape my skin against any little thing and it bleeds under the skin and looks awful. It has to be the chemo. It has to be some type of thinning agent in all of this. I think the Blood count goes down then the clotting material is at a lesser degree of the ability to clot so the "free bleeding " if you will shows its head a lot more...Blood platelets , white blood cells or one of them cause clotting and they are compromised with the treatment of chemo. My Onc told me that while I was doing treatment if I was to start bleeding and didn't stop within a reasonable amount of time to head to the emergency room, I could bleed to death if I wasn't careful, so chemo compromises the clotting ability of the blood system......I beat around the bush long enough to finally get it said......LOL....Love and Hope , Buzz

HollyID's picture
HollyID
Posts: 951
Joined: Dec 2009

Brooks, have to agree... I'm wondering what your platelet count is.

Off the top of my head, I think it should be between 150,000 and 400,000.

Please have it checked.

Sundanceh's picture
Sundanceh
Posts: 4408
Joined: Jun 2009

Hey Brooks

I remember you taking Oxy during your chemo treatments, right?

Well, the Oxy clobbers the you know what out of your "blood platelets." Holly had it right below saying the average counts are between 150,000-450,000.

Oxy is not even supposed to be administered if your counts fall below 100,000.

So, I'd check what your blood platelet count was your last time and/or request another one. When your counts drop below 60,000 and especially below 50,000, any little nick or scrape will just bleed and bleed and take much longer to clot than usual.

The culprit? Your blood platelets are probably pretty low. Be careful and don't operate power equipment, or hand saws, or anything where you could cut yourself.

Mine got as low as 48,000 and I pricked my finger one night and it bled 2 days non-stop, so I know about this experience intimately.

Be particularly careful in driving your car - you don't want an accident, because that kind of an accident, where a major artery or something was cut, could cause you to bleed out - and the doctors can't stop it. CAUTION is the word here for a long time.

Just to give you an idea of how long it took me to rebuild my platelet counts back to a respectable number - I came off Oxy and all chemo drugs in Dec2008, my platelet counts were down to like 48,000.

It's Jan2010 - which is 13 months since chemo stopped - last platelet counts are 109,000! That's a long time but I never thought they would get that high again. Still could never do Oxy again, because one cycle and those levels are cut nearly in half and well, can't do it.

But, it's up high enough that my blood clots now, so that's a good thing. If platelets were to ever get below 20,000, which is rare, but if it did, a person could just bleed out sitting in a chair doing nothing. Blood platelets are very important to our health. I did some studying on this and ran it by my onc during treatment to gather this information.

Oxy can also cause a condition called ITP - Idiopathic Thrombocytopenic Purpura.

Idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP) is a bleeding condition in which the blood doesn't clot as it should. This is due to a low number of blood cell fragments called platelets (PLATE-lets).

Platelets also are called thrombocytes (THROM-bo-sites). They're made in your bone marrow along with other kinds of blood cells. Platelets stick together (clot) to seal small cuts or breaks on blood vessel walls and stop bleeding.

"Idiopathic" (id-ee-o-PATH-ick) means that the cause of the condition isn't known. "Thrombocytopenic" (throm-bo-cy-toe-PEE-nick) means there's a lower than normal number of platelets in the blood. "Purpura" (PURR-purr-ah) refers to purple bruises caused by bleeding under the skin.

People who have ITP also may have nosebleeds, bleeding from the gums when they have dental work done, or other bleeding that's hard to stop.

Of course, by definition,it says the condition is "unknown." But we know, we had good platelets before the Oxy was introduced - now we're compromised after taking Oxy - Hmmm?

Time should help to heal those old Oxy wounds - that stuff is mean and it takes no prisoners. But I think you'll be ok - you can run this by your onc when you see him.

You can trust me - I'm a doctor :)
Dr. Pepper

Hey, Brooks, hope this helps you worry a little bit less - I've been through it first hand so wanted to share this with you to ease your anxiety.

Take care - Craig

bdee
Posts: 305
Joined: Feb 2009

I take 5FU and Avastin and if I cut my finder it will take four or five paper towels to soak up the blood to make it stop. Nose bleeds are worse the second week after chemo than they are the week of chemo. I've talked to my doctor and he blames the Avastin for everything. I can't even get a shot in my shoulder for bursitis. He said if the doctor hit a vein, the bleeding would be inside, might fill up the bursi and form a hematoma. He scared me so much with his "what could bes" that I cancelled my ortho doctor appointment and just living with the bursitis pain.

Debbie in Arkansas

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4887
Joined: May 2005

Did you check with your DR yet Brooks?

just4Brooks's picture
just4Brooks
Posts: 988
Joined: Jun 2009

Ya.. I'm not one to go see a dr unless I'm dyeing. I bet that's why I'm a stage 3 and not a stage 2!! LOL. I emailed him this morning with the same information I posted here. I also been sicker then a dog with a BAD cold for over 5 days now so I let him know about that.

Thanks for riding my butt

Brooks

Muzzy's picture
Muzzy
Posts: 178
Joined: Sep 2009

Hey Brook It been 6 months and i still bleed very easy. A small cut seems like a guyser.
I just have a check up and blood counts were fine!!
I spoke with Doc. and he didn't have an answer.
Jeff
Just happy to be here!!

lisa42's picture
lisa42
Posts: 3661
Joined: Jul 2008

Hi Brooks,

I have had nose bleeds throughout chemo and so when I stopped the Folfiri and Avastin to start on the new treatment I'm now on, I assumed that my nosebleeds and blowing bloodchunks out of my nose every morning would go away. Well, it hasn't. My last time of having a Folfiri/Avastin treatment was the week before Thanksgiving. I had a horrible nose bleed in the evening of Christmas Day. It bled for a good three hours, which never has happened to me before. I've been getting labs drawn weekly and my platelet count has been normal. I do have allergies and I know the air has been dry lately, but there was dry air before chemo and I had allergies then too & never had nose bleeds. My onc doesn't know why I'm having this problem. I haven't had my nose bleed for about 4 or 5 days now, but I still have bloody mucous that I blow out for about the first hour or two that I'm awake each day. Very frustrating that it hasn't gone away- now I'm worried that it will always be this way! My onc doesn't think my current treatment (lovastatin and interferon) is causing or affecting it.
I do tend to take 2-3 ibuprofen daily for joint and back pain. Maybe that's thinning the blood some.

Good luck-
Lisa

dianetavegia's picture
dianetavegia
Posts: 1953
Joined: Mar 2009

That was quite a nose bleed! I've had one bad one but it didn't last that long.

Jeff, Brooks, are y'all taking anything like aspirin or Ibuprofen?

KATE58's picture
KATE58
Posts: 300
Joined: Nov 2009

YES WHEN I AM ON CHEMO,3-4 NOSEBLEEDS
A WEEK THAT LAST ABOUT 15 MINUTES AND JUST POUR BLOOD WAS NORMAL
HAVEN'T HAD ANY ON THE IRINOTECAN THO
WHEN I GOT THE NOSE BLEEDS I KNEW MY PLATELET COUNT WAS BELOW 85,000
(S/B 150,000 IN HEALTHY PEOPLE )
MY DOCTOR WOULD DELAY MY CHEMO IF IT FELL BELOW 100,000.
MY DOC TOLD ME NOT TO TAKE ASPIRIN OR THE LIKE.No vit E or fish oil
either
don't you get regular CBC'S ?

dianetavegia's picture
dianetavegia
Posts: 1953
Joined: Mar 2009

Most of us bleeders are done with chemo. It seems odd it would still affect Buzzard (7 months out), me (5 months out), Muzzy, Brooks, etc.

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