We've all heard it, and probably said it - The book - Bright-sided:
Comments
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What?2bhealed said:Not only that but.....
I got a letter from a zealous Christian "friend" who told me that my sister was dying because she had unrepented sin in her life. Talk about blame the victim. No thank you!
Emily,
There is one question you should have had for this "friend". What is she dying from!!! I am not sure quite how far to go here but this person was way off base. (I am also a Christian, basic bible type, nothing unusual.)
I am so sorry, I am glad you have rejected her comment.
Jan0 -
Sorry, PhilPhillieG said:Seeing her gave me a different perspective of her
I heard her talk about when she battled breast cancer and how everyone kept telling her to "be positive". At times she did not want to be positive yet that's all she heard. She came off (to me) with some sarcasm in her comments. She was not saying "Do not be positive" but it was more of a statement on how people, who had absolutely no idea of what she was going through constantly telling her to "be positive". It seemed like they were not allowing her to feel like crap at all for having cancer and going through chemo.
So, I am not, nor did I feel she was saying "it's bad to have a positive outlook". It seems by many of the responses that some of you think that was her view (or my view).
I don't think I presented this post well...
Can't get them all right!
-phil
(can I feel bad about it???)
I see your point and hers also. Noone knows what it is like to be in our shoes until they are and it easy for them to talk when they don`t have to deal with their own mortality daily. It does bother me when people who have no concept of what it is to be in your shoes try to tell you it is somehow your fault that you have cancer or that you can`t receive healing because you are not allowing it to happen. Compassion is what people need more than pointed fingers.
Eric0 -
It's all in the deliveryShayenne said:I guess...
...I'm one of those people you want to floor when someone says "Stay Positive" sorry, it isn't because we don't know what to say, I just am always trying to focus on positive energies, and not the negative energies, like Eric, it's bad for stress, and I sure don't want to bring a room full of people down. I am a realist as well, I know I may die even TOMORROW. This disease may be the end of me, I think of myself when my time comes in hospice as well, how my family will be, how they will react, just because one says to stay positive all the time, doesn't mean they are, us positive people do die of cancer, but I won't let it change the way I act, or my disposition on anything, I am usually an upbeat person as well, and wish to just cheer people up as well, I like to put smiles on faces when I don't see one, I don't like to depress people, I refuse too.
I thank God everyday I'm here for each day, but if people are getting annoyed by a nice phrase, then fine, but I sure won't slam people for doing it.
Hugsss!
~Donna
Hey Donna,
I'm very positive and optimistic by nature also, but, and this is kind of hard to put into words, I think what it comes down to for me, is hearing people whose only experience with cancer is friend-of-a-friend-type stuff, say "think Positively!!!" with this hollow ring to it, vs. having it come from someone like you or anyone else on this board (caregivers too) who really know what this is all about. Hearing you say "keep your chin up" is a boost because you know what that means. To get it from someone on the outside, it almost sounds dismissive, like "oh snap out of it - it's not all that bad." I know they mean well and don't know what else to say, but sometimes it's hard not to feel that they're spouting platitudes.
We stay focused on what's good rather than what's not going right, but I think what Phil and the book are trying to convey is the way that strong-arming people into sweeping any negative emotions under the rug isn't constructive or healthy. I think it's important to acknowledge the dark side of this journey and at the same time you can stay focused on everything that's good in this life.
Did that make sense? I hope so.
We got some less than good news this afternoon and decided the best way to deal with it was to go out to a really nice restaurant, have some champagne, laugh, have some amazing food, laugh some more, and focus on the good stuff. It's not denial by any means, just enjoying life, and sucking the marrow out of the bones.0 -
Positive but sometimes I am Positively P'ed off
When I got my diagnosis I was Mr. positive, bring it on I'll be the best patient you ever saw. Walk after surgery? how far and how often? lets go. Chemo, work, kids, life, cancer don't define me. Now somedays it does and that is a good thing. I remember a post a few months ago when somebody was finally mad at it all and had a bad day. It stuck with me somewhat that yes in many ways cancer partially defines me, and I can accept that. I fight hard, I have mostly good days, although this cetuximab has me feeling a bit rash, I look like the Thing from Fantastic Four, "It's clobbering time".
I am very positive, but I have become more willing to let some thoughts creep in that are little like self pity, then I put that back away and find some of that courage we all have in us, and go on living, fighting, dreaming and healing. Phil, luv ya man, you make us dig inside and think about the larger life issues, what better time. Now with that said I am going to go ice my burning face and read what my friends think.
Peace
Mike0 -
MikeMike49 said:Positive but sometimes I am Positively P'ed off
When I got my diagnosis I was Mr. positive, bring it on I'll be the best patient you ever saw. Walk after surgery? how far and how often? lets go. Chemo, work, kids, life, cancer don't define me. Now somedays it does and that is a good thing. I remember a post a few months ago when somebody was finally mad at it all and had a bad day. It stuck with me somewhat that yes in many ways cancer partially defines me, and I can accept that. I fight hard, I have mostly good days, although this cetuximab has me feeling a bit rash, I look like the Thing from Fantastic Four, "It's clobbering time".
I am very positive, but I have become more willing to let some thoughts creep in that are little like self pity, then I put that back away and find some of that courage we all have in us, and go on living, fighting, dreaming and healing. Phil, luv ya man, you make us dig inside and think about the larger life issues, what better time. Now with that said I am going to go ice my burning face and read what my friends think.
Peace
Mike
I was on the erbitux for a while too and the rash was not only on my face but all over my chest and stomach and even my legs. They had to put me on antibiotics because I developed bad sores on my right leg and it became red and swollen. I joked on one of my posts that I was mutating into some toxic super creature and while I was waiting for the transformation I`d just be content to scare small children so I can completely relate to The Thing comment. Thank God I am off of that stuff and my rash has cleared. Now I`m just on stuff that can damage your heart or give you a stroke. Did I say I was relieved about not taking erbitux anymore?
Eric0 -
You Guys....eric38 said:Mike
I was on the erbitux for a while too and the rash was not only on my face but all over my chest and stomach and even my legs. They had to put me on antibiotics because I developed bad sores on my right leg and it became red and swollen. I joked on one of my posts that I was mutating into some toxic super creature and while I was waiting for the transformation I`d just be content to scare small children so I can completely relate to The Thing comment. Thank God I am off of that stuff and my rash has cleared. Now I`m just on stuff that can damage your heart or give you a stroke. Did I say I was relieved about not taking erbitux anymore?
Eric
...are always good for a laugh, just when I needed it!
Hugsss!
~Donna0 -
Adrian...AceSFO said:It's all in the delivery
Hey Donna,
I'm very positive and optimistic by nature also, but, and this is kind of hard to put into words, I think what it comes down to for me, is hearing people whose only experience with cancer is friend-of-a-friend-type stuff, say "think Positively!!!" with this hollow ring to it, vs. having it come from someone like you or anyone else on this board (caregivers too) who really know what this is all about. Hearing you say "keep your chin up" is a boost because you know what that means. To get it from someone on the outside, it almost sounds dismissive, like "oh snap out of it - it's not all that bad." I know they mean well and don't know what else to say, but sometimes it's hard not to feel that they're spouting platitudes.
We stay focused on what's good rather than what's not going right, but I think what Phil and the book are trying to convey is the way that strong-arming people into sweeping any negative emotions under the rug isn't constructive or healthy. I think it's important to acknowledge the dark side of this journey and at the same time you can stay focused on everything that's good in this life.
Did that make sense? I hope so.
We got some less than good news this afternoon and decided the best way to deal with it was to go out to a really nice restaurant, have some champagne, laugh, have some amazing food, laugh some more, and focus on the good stuff. It's not denial by any means, just enjoying life, and sucking the marrow out of the bones.
I don't like bad news, and sorry you and John got some
if you need to talk, I'm here, but glad you didn't let it stop you from having a good time, you only have one life, so live it to the fullest and best! You live in an area that has some awesome restaurants, and food, and I really miss that in the city, living here in the rural areas, we can only hope to celebrate with some good lean chicken fried steak (ewww)
You did make sense, I just took it alittle personally I guess, as someone who chooses to think positively, but yes, have come across the people who just don't have cancer and say those things. I think they mean well, and are well-intentioned, but yes, have looked at them like they have 2 heads as well, especially when they say "You've gotten so skinny"...well, cancer does that...DUH! I just say, "Are you kidding? I'm back to my high school weight BEFORE I had 4 kids!!!!" There is usually no more replies to my answer like that.
I'd rather dismiss them stupid comments, there are just things I wouldn't say to someone with cancer, unless I been there, done that, but my life is usually full of positives, especially because God has blessed me with 4 beautiful children, and I hate to complain about much, I do feel guilty when I do, when I see what's around me, usually snaps me out of it, hell, this could have happened to one of my kids, but it happened to me, and am thankful everyday it isn't one of my kids, I just have learned to shrug off what people say now, or dish it back, depends on my mood and how they say it.
Maybe next time they say I look too skinny, I should just say "WOW!! looks like you gained 30 lbs since I seen you last!!" and see what they say, that might shut them up.
Hugsss!
~Donna0 -
DonnaShayenne said:Adrian...
I don't like bad news, and sorry you and John got some if you need to talk, I'm here, but glad you didn't let it stop you from having a good time, you only have one life, so live it to the fullest and best! You live in an area that has some awesome restaurants, and food, and I really miss that in the city, living here in the rural areas, we can only hope to celebrate with some good lean chicken fried steak (ewww)
You did make sense, I just took it alittle personally I guess, as someone who chooses to think positively, but yes, have come across the people who just don't have cancer and say those things. I think they mean well, and are well-intentioned, but yes, have looked at them like they have 2 heads as well, especially when they say "You've gotten so skinny"...well, cancer does that...DUH! I just say, "Are you kidding? I'm back to my high school weight BEFORE I had 4 kids!!!!" There is usually no more replies to my answer like that.
I'd rather dismiss them stupid comments, there are just things I wouldn't say to someone with cancer, unless I been there, done that, but my life is usually full of positives, especially because God has blessed me with 4 beautiful children, and I hate to complain about much, I do feel guilty when I do, when I see what's around me, usually snaps me out of it, hell, this could have happened to one of my kids, but it happened to me, and am thankful everyday it isn't one of my kids, I just have learned to shrug off what people say now, or dish it back, depends on my mood and how they say it.
Maybe next time they say I look too skinny, I should just say "WOW!! looks like you gained 30 lbs since I seen you last!!" and see what they say, that might shut them up.
Hugsss!
~Donna
I know what you mean. I look at my family sometimes and I think I am glad I do not have to watch them go through this. It is tough but sometimes I think it would be tougher to watch it from the outside. I wish it had never happened but if it had to happen to somebody in my family I`m glad it was me and not them. Quite frankly, I am a tough Texas boy and I think am more equipped to handle it than any of them would be.
Eric0 -
Prescription drug infoeric38 said:Mike
I was on the erbitux for a while too and the rash was not only on my face but all over my chest and stomach and even my legs. They had to put me on antibiotics because I developed bad sores on my right leg and it became red and swollen. I joked on one of my posts that I was mutating into some toxic super creature and while I was waiting for the transformation I`d just be content to scare small children so I can completely relate to The Thing comment. Thank God I am off of that stuff and my rash has cleared. Now I`m just on stuff that can damage your heart or give you a stroke. Did I say I was relieved about not taking erbitux anymore?
Eric
Don"t want to read any of that drug info prior to chemo. Side effects from loss of hair, control of bowels, sudden death. All stated in a line. Xeloda makes my feet fall apart, Oxy makes me tingle hands and feet and "no cold stuff". I need the regimen that makes me want to watch silly movies, oh I just don't have the right anti-nausea preparation. Then when I say "its clobberin time, look out cookie isle at the store.0 -
OMG - had to reply2bhealed said:Not only that but.....
I got a letter from a zealous Christian "friend" who told me that my sister was dying because she had unrepented sin in her life. Talk about blame the victim. No thank you!
Emily ...
You should have taken a bible and beat that zealot "Christian" over the head with it!!!
What an un-Christian like thing to say to you!!
Great topic Phil...enjoyed reading everyone's responses too. I try to stay optimistic for my husband and he tries to also, especially for our daughter's sakes, but sometimes I'm just plain old pissed and scared - he is too. The people who comfort us the most just let us have our moments, and then help us get back in the game.
Most days we are fully involved in the business of living life to it's fullest - like Adrian, enjoying a nice dinner, movies, going out with friends and family, etc. We hear "stay positive" all the time, understand the concept, and try to for the most part, but there is grief involved in this hellacious journey also, and sometimes we (he and I - I am not speaking for anyone but myself) need to acknowledge that feeling too.
All the best,
Donna0 -
look at it this way.....Mike49 said:Prescription drug info
Don"t want to read any of that drug info prior to chemo. Side effects from loss of hair, control of bowels, sudden death. All stated in a line. Xeloda makes my feet fall apart, Oxy makes me tingle hands and feet and "no cold stuff". I need the regimen that makes me want to watch silly movies, oh I just don't have the right anti-nausea preparation. Then when I say "its clobberin time, look out cookie isle at the store.
just like walking, positive thinking and being able to laugh
releases endorphins and all the other good stuff that helps
our immune system.....so instead of getting pissed next time
someone says "stay positive" or "keep your chin up", believe that
they are wishing for you all those endorphins etc. that help
the immune system....i know that when i am thinking negative
and being anxious, my whole body feels it, so it ain't good....
as far as the bigger picture, us Americans may not have
done ourselves a favor by dwelling so much on the "pursuit
of happiness" part in the Consitution at the risk of damage
to others and the "just dreaming will make it come true"
and "you can get anything you set your mind to" and "you
can be anything you want to become" may have been taken
way too far.....a positive spin on the topic of positive
thinking lol......
Barbara0 -
I do really, really well
I do really, really well until those 'statistic' posts appear and then I start to worry about 'what if it comes back'....
Adrian, are you an artist as a hobby or a profession? Do you have pictures of some of your art? My favorite cousin and her partner, April, are both artists. Bridgette has an art gallery in Mobile. Her partner also has a house painting business called 'A Girl with a Brush'. I have some of their art.
)
So, that being said... Let's all sing... Ah 1, Ah 2...
♫ The Sun'll come out tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow ♫0 -
Prescription drug infoeric38 said:Mike
I was on the erbitux for a while too and the rash was not only on my face but all over my chest and stomach and even my legs. They had to put me on antibiotics because I developed bad sores on my right leg and it became red and swollen. I joked on one of my posts that I was mutating into some toxic super creature and while I was waiting for the transformation I`d just be content to scare small children so I can completely relate to The Thing comment. Thank God I am off of that stuff and my rash has cleared. Now I`m just on stuff that can damage your heart or give you a stroke. Did I say I was relieved about not taking erbitux anymore?
Eric
Don"t want to read any of that drug info prior to chemo. Side effects from loss of hair, control of bowels, sudden death. All stated in a line. Xeloda makes my feet fall apart, Oxy makes me tingle hands and feet and "no cold stuff". I need the regimen that makes me want to watch silly movies, oh I just don't have the right anti-nausea preparation. Then when I say "its clobberin time, look out cookie isle at the store.0 -
Singing with youdianetavegia said:I do really, really well
I do really, really well until those 'statistic' posts appear and then I start to worry about 'what if it comes back'....
Adrian, are you an artist as a hobby or a profession? Do you have pictures of some of your art? My favorite cousin and her partner, April, are both artists. Bridgette has an art gallery in Mobile. Her partner also has a house painting business called 'A Girl with a Brush'. I have some of their art.)
So, that being said... Let's all sing... Ah 1, Ah 2...
♫ The Sun'll come out tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow ♫
Diane,
la la la la. I like singing virtually because no one can hear me. Love the tickers!!!! Also remember that figures lie and liars figure. We are all individuals.
I like everyones humor. Have you ever wondered why people buy percsriptions after watching a commercial about them espeically when they hear things like "can cause serious liver, lung and heart problems or even death". Wow sign me up for some of that!
On getting P'ed off. We all know that a good laugh and fun thoughts can make us feel better, but when we have those times of fight or flight kick in- going outside and beating the fence with a 2x4 also helps get rid of a lot of tension and anger. It is not good to hold on to the anger, so slug away, (or for some of us a major tear fest helps). A friend had a "damn it doll" given to her during a messy divorce, going to spend some time this week making one. It is a pathetic looking thing, and can grab it and beat the __, well you know-oh stuffing, out of it. Pictures to follow.
Jan0 -
Hi Phil,
Usually when people
Hi Phil,
Usually when people say things like that to me, I assume they mean well. I'm always amazed at just how many people do indeed KNOW exactly what I'm going through either through their own personal experiences with Cancer, or because of people close to them who have struggled with this disease.
I guess I just tend to look on the Positive side of things, shame on me, at least according to Ms Ehrenriech.
DennisR0 -
Geez Phil,
Most of the
Geez Phil,
Most of the people I know and associate with work very hard to stay positive, raise their families, provide food and shelter, keep their marriages together, pay their bills, and generally enjoy the time they have on Earth as best they can. They neither expect, nor recieve any so-called handouts or special favors and most definitely do not think the World owes them a living. They work for it. That's hardly the same as your picture of EVERYONE feeling that they deserve everything just because they have a face.
You really need to find a better class of friends, try talking to real working people sometime, perhaps even try reading something that hasn't been written by someone who's associated with nearly every organization that has an "ist" or "ism" attached to it's name and can't even be sarcastic, (the lowest form of wit), without punctuating it with some negative reference to Christianity as Atheists are wont to do.
DennisR0 -
Greg, More of the lyricsPGLGreg said:Always look on the bright side of life.
If life seems jolly rotten,
There's something you've forgotten,
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
When you're feeling in the dumps,
Don't be silly chumps.
Just purse your lips and whistle.
That's the thing.
--Eric Idle
Life's a piece of sh it
When you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all a show
Keep 'em laughing as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.
And always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the right side of life...
(Come on guys, cheer up!)
Always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the bright side of life...
(Worse things happen at sea, you know.)
Always look on the bright side of life...
(I mean - what have you got to lose?)
(You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing.
What have you lost? Nothing!)
Always look on the right side of life...0 -
Dennis, I wasn't clear or you missed the pointDennisR said:Geez Phil,
Most of the
Geez Phil,
Most of the people I know and associate with work very hard to stay positive, raise their families, provide food and shelter, keep their marriages together, pay their bills, and generally enjoy the time they have on Earth as best they can. They neither expect, nor recieve any so-called handouts or special favors and most definitely do not think the World owes them a living. They work for it. That's hardly the same as your picture of EVERYONE feeling that they deserve everything just because they have a face.
You really need to find a better class of friends, try talking to real working people sometime, perhaps even try reading something that hasn't been written by someone who's associated with nearly every organization that has an "ist" or "ism" attached to it's name and can't even be sarcastic, (the lowest form of wit), without punctuating it with some negative reference to Christianity as Atheists are wont to do.
DennisR
I've tried to be as clear as I can with this post but it really seems to have been misunderstood or something.
I did not say that it is bad to be positive or that it isn't good to hear people tell you that you should try to be positive. Most everyone I know and associate with are as you say, they work very hard to stay positive, raise their families, provide food and shelter, keep their marriages together, pay their bills, and generally enjoy the time they have on Earth as best they can. There is a sense of entitlement in America but not EVERYONE feels that way. I wrote that, I apologize, there is never a scenario where EVERYONE does anything except that we all were born and will die (and most of us will pay taxes - I hope).
My point is that if someone wants to feel like crap, it's OK if THEY do. THEY don't need people telling them the HAVE TO BE POSITIVE, it's their choice.
This was a book written by someone else, not by me. I really feel you totally missed the message of my post, I even wrote partway though this post that it was being misunderstood. I guess you didn't read that. I also don't think I attacked Christianity either.
There seems to be some major sarchasm between us.
Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
Lighten up Dennis (but only if YOU want to)
This post wasn't as serious as it was taken.
--phil0 -
Lighten up yourself, Phil,PhillieG said:Dennis, I wasn't clear or you missed the point
I've tried to be as clear as I can with this post but it really seems to have been misunderstood or something.
I did not say that it is bad to be positive or that it isn't good to hear people tell you that you should try to be positive. Most everyone I know and associate with are as you say, they work very hard to stay positive, raise their families, provide food and shelter, keep their marriages together, pay their bills, and generally enjoy the time they have on Earth as best they can. There is a sense of entitlement in America but not EVERYONE feels that way. I wrote that, I apologize, there is never a scenario where EVERYONE does anything except that we all were born and will die (and most of us will pay taxes - I hope).
My point is that if someone wants to feel like crap, it's OK if THEY do. THEY don't need people telling them the HAVE TO BE POSITIVE, it's their choice.
This was a book written by someone else, not by me. I really feel you totally missed the message of my post, I even wrote partway though this post that it was being misunderstood. I guess you didn't read that. I also don't think I attacked Christianity either.
There seems to be some major sarchasm between us.
Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
Lighten up Dennis (but only if YOU want to)
This post wasn't as serious as it was taken.
--phil
Lighten up yourself, Phil, it ain't personal
I don't believe I posted that you had personally attacked Christianity, however Ms Ehrenreich has a long Biography of doing so and nearly all of her writings and Associations most definitely do.
Incidentally, the US doesn't have a monopoly on citizens that feel a sense of entitlement, in fact most of Europe has a population with a far greater sense of Priviledges and freebie entitlements than Americans have ever had. Take a look at Germany, France, or Italy, just to name a few notable Countries whose citizens demand more Socialistic benefits than the Countries can financially sustain and which has caused them to import workers to pay for it all that are in turn denied the benefits they're working to provide.
Of course, we all like to have our Bad days, unfortunately we aren't wise enough, or unable to avoid other people when we're enjoying them.
I have a customer I see every few months, a Poet Lauteate from Alaska, actually. Every time he comes in, I always say, "Good Morning", He always answers, "No Thanks, I've got other plans for my day", (with a wry grin and a chuckle).
DennisR0
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