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Diet and lifestyle

hewhositsoncushions
Posts: 253
Joined: Mar 2017

Hi all

Thought I would start adding back rather than taking so here goes Cool

I was talking to my dietician friend and she suggested that a diet biased towards alkali would me more conducive to recovery as cancer thrives in an acidic environment.

I have also seen it suggested that cutting out red meat with the logical extreme being going vegetarian / vegan is a good idea.

Alchohol is clearly a no no.

It seems I need to eat broccoli until it comes out of my ears and tomato juice too (need to research what type).

Vitamins are more complex as it seems there are contraindications for some. Will dig further and post.

Calorie restriction and weight loss is important, so is exercise and mental well being.

What other thgughts can you folks add?

Cushions

Clevelandguy
Posts: 409
Joined: Jun 2015

Hi,

Tomato juice is highly acidic which is different than alkali?   PH 7 and  below is acidic, 7 and above alkali.  Any good diet should help your body heal but I don't know of a diet that will cure or prevent cancer.  If that was so we would all be doing it.

Dave 3+4

hewhositsoncushions
Posts: 253
Joined: Mar 2017

Hmmmm

Lots of conflicting information out there.

I know tomatoes are specifically supposed to be good if prepped right.

As for the alkaline diet - I heard of it, not convinced, just looking into it.

As for the rest, I agree - clean diet is a help not a cure.

Cushions

Swingshiftworker
Posts: 1013
Joined: Mar 2010

If you're concerned about your diet,  the best complilation of research that I have ever seen is provided in a paper published by UCSF aptly titled: Nutrition and Prostate Cancer, which you can find here:

http://cancer.ucsf.edu/_docs/crc/nutrition_prostate.pdf

I met and had a consultation w/the author of the paper when I initally contacted UCSF for treatment back in 2010.  I found the info interesting but the only thing that I did based on the info provided was to stop taking calcium supplements.  I otherwise just eat a generally heart healthy/low fat diet that is bascially what is recommended anyway.

 

Grinder
Posts: 437
Joined: Mar 2017

Just a warning to anyone wanting to go total vegan. I went vegan for several years, and developed a mild dairy intolerance. Probiotics have not helped, my gastro intestinal system does not react well to dairy. Its like a respiratory allergy causes coughing and mucous production, my GI system does the same thing reacting to dairy as an allergen. And I am not the only vegan to report this. Its not life threatening or anything, just a nuisance the same way a respiratory allergy is a nuisance during pollen season or around cat dander. Small amounts in baked goods are ok, but cheese, milk, etc. cause a reaction. Now I only drink unsweetened almond milk. Its not lactose intolerance either, its anything cow milk, but I don't know about goats milk or?

GeneRose1's picture
GeneRose1
Posts: 64
Joined: Aug 2016

This is a really interesting thread. I've been trying to improve my diet, shed weight, and give my body as much support as possible to fight this disease. I've also read about cancer thriving in an acidic environment & have tried to adjust by dramatically cutting down on red meat, pork, & dairy products. I gave up sweets & booze a long time ago and now try to have one green leafy vegetable, usually spinich, with every meal. Instead of cow's milk, I now drink unsweetened almond milk. I also drink a Green Juice Supplement called Organifi that I take with apple cider vinegar. I'm very puzzled about the calcium supplement comment. I've been taking large doses of it every day since my radiation treatments two years ago. Am I doing more harm than good?

hewhositsoncushions
Posts: 253
Joined: Mar 2017

HI Gene

I did some digging into supplements in regard to PCa and it does appear complex.

I did some initial digging but I've had to process a huge amount of information this last week so hopefully some of the more experienced guys can add value.

I've included an official USG medical link (there are probably tons of research papers as well but as a newbie I am hesitant to go there as they are just that, research and may be misleading).

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/hp/prostate-supplements-pdq

From this and other sites ...

(Possibly) Good

  • Green Tea
  • Lycopene (plants and various fruits and vegetables, including tomatoes, apricots, guavas, and watermelon best with good dietary fat)
  • Modified citrus protein
  • Pomegranite
  • Soy
  • Vitamin D (and sunlight!!!!!)
  • Cruciferous vegetables (all vegetables and fruit considered good)
  • POMI-T
  • Zyflamend
  • Turmeric
  • Fish (high in Omega 3 but rotate to avoind

(Probably) Bad

  • Alchohol
  • Calcium
  • Selenium
  • Vitamin E
  • Meats (especially red but apparantly chicken has more growth hormones in which is bad)

I intend to live on things like brocolli, tomato and turmeric soup for lunch and snacks from now on!

Also regardless, obesity is bad so diet and exercise is key!!!!

Caveat Emptor!

Feedback from others would be great.

C

 

GeneRose1's picture
GeneRose1
Posts: 64
Joined: Aug 2016

C, I'm going to take this up with my Medical Oncologist and PCM and get their takes. I know that radiation weakens bones and that since my PCa has moved into my spine and hips and is probably doing a lot of damage there, I should do SOMETHING to try and keep them as strong as possible and help them recover. That's what I thought calcium does & I take 1200mg of it every day. Is it possible that we're looking at this from different perspectives with you being more concerned with overall health and diet & me being focused on bone metastases? Interesting when you mention tumeric. A bottle of tumeric supplements came with my Organifi Green Juice mix and I haven't started it yet. That might possibly be a replacement for the calcium supplements. Like you, I would like to hear from others in our group on this.

Swingshiftworker
Posts: 1013
Joined: Mar 2010

Read pages 14-15 of the UCSF study regarding the taking of excessive calcium supplements and it's link to prostate cancer.

http://cancer.ucsf.edu/_docs/crc/nutrition_prostate.pdf

That's why I stopped taking them when I was 1st diagnosed w/prostate cancer but it was kinda like shutting the barn door after the horses already got out.  Just did so to prevent feeding the cancer additionally w/calcium if there was indeed a link.

As the nutritionist and my doctor both said, you are probably already getting sufficient calcium from your diet and don't really need to take more unless there is some other medical condition (like osteoprosis) that requires it but even then, if you are at risk for prostate cancer, you still might want to avoid taking in excessive amounts.

The 1992 China Study in which the author recommended the elimination of all sources of animal protein in lieu of a vegan diet (a recommendation that has been largely criticized and debunked) also provided some evidence of an apparent link between calcium intake and cancer, which has been taken seriously by various organizations including the American Institute for Cancer Research.

See: http://www.aicr.org/about/advocacy/the-china-study.html

 

hewhositsoncushions
Posts: 253
Joined: Mar 2017

Thanks for the additional information amd comment.

One to add - pomegranate juice. Expensive but damn nice (shame you can't have it with gin :))

 

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 2218
Joined: Apr 2009

Lycopene....it was said that lyopene prevented prostate cancer, but recent studies have proven this wrong. Eventhough tomatoe sauce has lots of lycopene it is not necessary to eat to prevent prostate cancer,,,,,,however, tomatoes (concentrated tomato sauce) ,  watermelon, etc are fine to have in a heart healty diet.

pomogranate juice..also good for you, however other juices are equally as good....probably better to diretly eat  fruits and veggies versus juices...weight and sugar control.

As far as the book, "the china study" by t. colin campbell, I found it to be informative, and follow his advice. There have been those who made negative statements about this research, but in my opinion it has been refudiated. There is a dvd, "FORKSoverKnives" that talk to vegan based diet being heart healthy. It is avaiable at NetFlicks or your public library. It will take less thsn an hour to view.

Since I was diagnosed , i do not eat dairy or meats....i do eat a small amount of fish along with fruits, veggies and grains.  Since heart disease is epidemic, it is wise to eat heart healthy since we who have been diagnosed with prostate cancer are more likely to die from heart disease than prostate cancer....."heart healthy is prostate cancer healthy". ....Others at this discussion site eat a more moderate mediterranean

hewhositsoncushions
Posts: 253
Joined: Mar 2017

It's a nightmare keeping up with the ebb and flow of research. My approach is that as long as it is healthy and not contra-indicated, you might as well give it a shot because like you said, if nothing else you get a healthy diet!

Grinder
Posts: 437
Joined: Mar 2017

If anyone is concerned about calcium intake, be cautious of tricalcium phosphate, an additive that increases the calcium levels in vegan products to more mimic typical calcium content in dairy products. As an additive it's harmless and does work similarly to organic calcium, but if calcium in general is a problem, watch the nutrition labels and ingredients for it. Almond milk is a good example. Most have 45% of the RDA for calcium in only 8 ounces, but some only have 10% in 8 ounces. I drink way more than just 8 ounces per day, so I always opt for the lower amount. Add that to other vegan products and foods with naturally occurring calcium and that is a LOT for anyone trying to limit calcium intake for whatever reason.

FinishingGrace
Posts: 83
Joined: Apr 2017

I just read those two pages from the study that SwingShift posted. 

It seems that the increased risk of prostate cancer is directly related to higher intake of dairy products and higher calcium levels - but only if the calcium came from dairy products.

It also seemed like this leads to an increased risk of getting prostate cancer, but I didn't see a direct relationship to higher calcium levels or high intake of dairy being a problem for someone who already has it. Not that it isn't common sense to not take something that might CAUSE the cancer in the first place. Did I miss something in my reading?

Do you guys think that men (generally speaking) should work to significantly decrease dairy foods in their diet? That's what is seems like to me...

Swingshiftworker
Posts: 1013
Joined: Mar 2010

Do you mean BEFORE they are diagnosed w/ prostate cancer? 

Perhaps but I don't think the dairy-cancer connectino is clear enough to require it.   Certainly can't hurt provided enough calcium is being acquired otherwise but not essential in my personal opinion.

hewhositsoncushions
Posts: 253
Joined: Mar 2017

I Googled. The second item was from the Daily Mail so I skipped right on past that bad boy :)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3448410/ further down and others suggest  that supplementation has little to no effect on BMD and possibly raises the risk of heart disease and advanced PCa.

Caveat emptor but I would stick to steering clear of dairy / calcium and just make sure you diet hits your micros the old fashioned way.

Can't remember if I mentioned before but the exception to this is Whey Protein which appears to be good for PCa (A hearty Wheymen to those here who do or did worship Brodin at the Iron Temple like I did until Broki attacked me with his Gainz Goblinz of PCa and high stress panic attacks :))

C

FinishingGrace
Posts: 83
Joined: Apr 2017

The report seemed to say calcium in dairy products increases the chance you will get prostate cancer. It wasn't clear to me that consuming calcium through dairy is bad once you've already been diagnosed.

 

GeneRose1's picture
GeneRose1
Posts: 64
Joined: Aug 2016

Great! Add this to the "things my Urologist & Oncologists never told me" file.  If it's possible that the massive amounts of calcium I take every day are actually helping my PCa, then I'd better stop immediately.

hewhositsoncushions
Posts: 253
Joined: Mar 2017

Gene

I suggest you do some more digging and talk to your specialists and maybe a dietician.

It is hilarious how inconsistent some of this is.

I just bought a reputable PCa cook book (their Thai Green Curry is awesome!) BUT they tout the benefits of selenium which I have seen reported as a no no.

I think the take away from this is research, research and more research and try and balance maintstream information with the outlying stuff from medical research (usually unproven or indeterminate in reality) and holistic medicine.

What I would love to see is a forum dedicated to cancer diets to bring it into focus and provide verified information.

C

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 2218
Joined: Apr 2009

"t was once thought that taking vitamin E could reduce the risk of prostate cancer. ... Back in 2008 one large study, known as the Selenium and Vitamin E CancerPrevention Trial (SELECT), showed that not only did vitamin E fail to decrease the risk of prostate cancer — it may have increased the risk instead.

Vitamin E may indeed increase the risk of prostate cancer - Harvard ...

www.harvardprostateknowledge.org/vitamin-e-may-indeed-increase-the-risk-of-prostate..."
 
The select test done among 35,000 men was stopped midway, since there was indication that the risk of prostate cancer was increased as a result of taking larger doses of vitamin e and selenium
 
There is a doctor, Dr. Mark Moyad, who has published several books on diet and life style....he also contributes to several publications focused on prostate cancer. He also lectures extensively....He is an experts extert on the subject.
GeneRose1's picture
GeneRose1
Posts: 64
Joined: Aug 2016

C, Would you please pass along the title and author of your PCa Cook Book? It sounds great & I'd like to order a copy. Thanks/Gene

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 2218
Joined: Apr 2009

....was done among 35,000 men to measure the positive benefits of vitamin e and selenium, however the study was stopped midway, since the study group instead of showing positive benefit, showed negative effect. So, say no to vitamin e and selenium

Rakendra's picture
Rakendra
Posts: 198
Joined: Apr 2013

Lets cut to the chase here.  If you really want the healthiest diet not just for cancer but also for general health, then go Keto.  There is plenty of info on Youtube.  Keto is NOT for sissies.  This is a major lifestyle change and requires a lot of atitude adjustment.  You WILL lose all your fat.  I have lost 3 inches of my gut, and now have the 2nd best abs at my gym.  I have lost so much weight that I cannot compete in bodybuilding anymore, but am now competitive in Fitness.  Keto is incredible combined with intermitent fasting.  Check it out guys.  The food supply today is TOXIC.  Love, Swami rakendra

  Keto.  There is all kinds of info on Youtube and it will take a lot of study.  But this diet is NOT for sissies.  At first it is difficult.  You will lose all the fat on your body, it will fight the cancer.  I combine it with Intermittent fasting and now have the second best Abs at my gym.  On the other hand, I have lost a LOT of size, including 4 inches off of my stomach.  I am now too small to compete as a bodybuilder, so I am going to start competing in the Fitness competitions. Believe me, if you want health AND to lose all of your fat, Ketogenic is the way to go.  But it is a TOTAL change of lifestyle.  I also now know what supplements you need to take.  

Grinder
Posts: 437
Joined: Mar 2017

Yes, food is toxic... I try to only do organic. Recently, there are unacceptable traces of glyphosate showing up in wheat products. It seems that the Monsanto compound is being used to kill the wheat. As you probably know, when a plant is killed, it sends all its remaining energy/nutrients to its reproduction.. i.e. the wheat kernels. They have found that they can shorten the life of a wheat field yet get the same yield. This increases the number of crops they can plant and harvest in a growing season. Then there is GMO... GMO plants are not in themselves toxic, but they are genetically engineered to grow faster and have larger produce, but at the expense of nutrition. Perhaps in a country with little resources and resulting starvation, this would make food stuffs plentiful, but at the cost of nutritional value. There is no reason for us to produce and consume GMO.

I could go on, but I am guessing we all have our stories about the food supply.  Then there is restaraunt talapia... don't get me started.

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3207
Joined: May 2012

The late George Carlin once reported in jest that "Scientists have discovered that saliva causes stomach cancer, but only when swallowed in small quantities over decades."

This thread seems to be chasing it's tail round and round: "Do this, don't do that, this was repudiated, this has weak evidence." I believe that diet has virtually no role in PCa or any other cancer for that matter, and it definitely has no role after PCa has begun in returning to wellness.  

Evidence suggesting dietary links is tenuous, and certainly never rises to the level of "cause." Ok, alcoholism is clearly linked to escophagal and/or throat, but results this clear and intuitive are not the norm. How many tens of millions of dollars have been spent on "saw  palmetto" as a way to maintain prostate health ? And all studies have shown​ it to be worthless.  PCa constantly strikes men of all body types and dietary histories.   I ate what I liked prior to diagnosis, just as I eat what I like now.  

When I was on chemo for advanced Lymphoma, my wife asked my hematologist, who has 5 board certifications, what I should eat, and he said "any damn thing he wants....the critical thing on chemo is to intake calories." It is a near universal understanding that people on multiple harsh chemos will develop food fetishes, cravings, and/or drug-induced anorexia, and that they just need to eat something, anything, to weather the storm.

When my friend Gary was in hospice two days before death, he requested a milkshake; he had not eaten in days. He was clearly terminal and about to pass, in and out of delirium.  A friend objected, saying " the sugar will feed the cancer." The profound stupidity and meanness of her comment has never ceased to amaze me. At times, a little perspective is to be desired. He enjoyed the shake incidentally.

max

Grinder
Posts: 437
Joined: Mar 2017

How many of you have been told that coconut oil is very very bad for you, but very very good for you?

Does anybody have a definitive answer? Some say coconut oil is the quickest trip to the coronary unit, other people say it is the food of the gods. I don't know what to think. I have used unrefined virgin coconut oil, and not noticed anything aversive. But am I signing my death warrant later down the road, or will it give me shiny hair and a smooth complexion. I have heard everything. This is of course internally. I don't doubt its external use, though I prefer a mix of beeswax and olive oil externally.

If anybody can offer insight let me know.

Swingshiftworker
Posts: 1013
Joined: Mar 2010

Coconut oil to me is just the lastest food fad.

It's way too expensive to be used on an ordinary basis.  Olive oil and canola oil are just fine when used, like all oils, in moderation.

GeneRose1's picture
GeneRose1
Posts: 64
Joined: Aug 2016

OK guys, I just got back from my Oncologist. I presented the calcium question to him and he responded that, in my case, taking large doses of calcum supplements does more harm than good. So that's it. I'm off the calcium. Thanks to you all for helping me find and correct another screw-up on this journey. Best/Gene

Grinder
Posts: 437
Joined: Mar 2017

FYI... ^What he said about Saw Palmetto. It is the snake oil of prostate health. Only instead of a side show with the barker out front and a planted shill in the audience, the show is on our TVs and radios.

hewhositsoncushions
Posts: 253
Joined: Mar 2017

@Gene - teamwork for the win :) Glad you got good professional advice on this to back up the input here.

@Grinder - it's a sad fact of life that people will capitalise on other people's suffering. Caveat Emptor!

Rakendra's picture
Rakendra
Posts: 198
Joined: Apr 2013

Cocoanut oil is the new staple of the bodybuilding, fitness and sports industry.  Even LaBron James is Keto, and everything in his life improved.  I am too old now to write much, but check out the history of cocoanut oil and how the fake food industry stopped people in Asis from using it and switching to manufactured oil.  I would not use Canola oil, and it is not recommended on a Keto Diet.  Cocoanut oil is my main source of fat.  love, swami rakendra

hewhositsoncushions
Posts: 253
Joined: Mar 2017

@Gene - the book is the Prostate Cancer Care Cookbook (Kyle books) by Margaret Ryman, Kay Dilley and Kay Gibbons. Some very good meals. I recommed a slow cooker if you have not got one already it you like the stews.

@Max - the voice of reason :) You are right, there is a lot of scare mongering but if enough studies show links even if correlation rather than causation, I would say that is reason enough to be careful. I'm happy with a vegan plus seafood plus a few selected supplements. It keeps me fed and healty (have lost nearly a stone so far!). Quality food - less of it!

C

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