Hormone Therapy with ELIGARD

2»

Comments

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,641 Member
    Brian R. said:

    Bone density loss on Eligard
    Vasco
    A little bit of information on helping to prevent bone density loss when on HT treatment, and why the running I do seems to help me more than walking.
    There has just been a science show on the TV here in Australia, and if your internet speed is at least 512 go to the following web site and follow my instructions.
    www.abc.net.au/news
    Run the cursor over the TV button at top of screen and select iview.
    The iview program will quickly down load and display a number of programs that you can watch, look for "catalyst" series 13 episode 11,you may have to search around a bit, as the screen changes from day to day,but the program is usually available for a week or two.

    From the program it seems that impact exercises are best for keeping your bone density.

    Regards
    Brian

    Brian; Copyright protection
    Brian

    Thanks for caring. I really would like to watch the video. I followed your instructions but got this warning message each time I tried. Is there a different way for getting it?;
    “Due to copyright reasons this video program is available for download by people located in Australia only. If you are not located in Australia, you are not authorised to view this video”

    http://search.abc.net.au/search/search.cgi?form=simple&num_ranks=20&collection=abcall&query=catalyst

    In any case, I got a radio program which addresses the same matter. Is it the same as the video?
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/healthreport/exercise-and-bones/3606714

    There is another site at Yahoo connecting physical fitness with prevention for osteoporosis here;
    http://voices.yahoo.com/exercises-treating-preventing-osteoporosis-3430222.html

    In fact, I am now very interested in a sort of physical program more intense than the simple daily walk. I want to diminish my abdominal fat.
    I am on vacation Off-drugs and start feeling better in terms of fatigue. I think that this feeling is just a trick from my mind because the testosterone levels are still very low. May tests gave results equal to the ones from 3-months ago (T= <0.01 ng/ml; PSA=0.02 ng/ml). However, I see/feel my testes getting bigger and feel more energetic. This goes against what I have read that improvements start about three months after the end of the drugs’ effectiveness period. That should happen, in my case, in August. Could it be my Positive thinking?

    Nevertheless I am now confronting another episode in health which I recommend you to consider as a survivor of radiation therapy.
    In two occasions (one year apart) I experienced visible blood in my stool. That happen after a daylong at the golf course and I imagined the cause being the stressful exercise (4.5 hours and hot weather). However, three FOBT tests (faecal occult blood test) done in April were positive and my GP sent me for a sigmoidoscopy, that found scar tissue at the end part of the rectum.
    The finding could indicate that the blood is due to proctitis caused by radiation (as a late side effect, since RT was done 6 years ago). But my Pca doctor who I visited last week recommended me to get a consultation with a Gastroenterologist for a full colonoscopy.

    What could that be? Colon cancer?
    I want to believe that the problem is proctitis. Let’s wait before drawing a conclusion.

    Thanks again for the information.

    The best to you.
    VGama
  • Samsungtech1
    Samsungtech1 Member Posts: 351

    Brian; Copyright protection
    Brian

    Thanks for caring. I really would like to watch the video. I followed your instructions but got this warning message each time I tried. Is there a different way for getting it?;
    “Due to copyright reasons this video program is available for download by people located in Australia only. If you are not located in Australia, you are not authorised to view this video”

    http://search.abc.net.au/search/search.cgi?form=simple&num_ranks=20&collection=abcall&query=catalyst

    In any case, I got a radio program which addresses the same matter. Is it the same as the video?
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/healthreport/exercise-and-bones/3606714

    There is another site at Yahoo connecting physical fitness with prevention for osteoporosis here;
    http://voices.yahoo.com/exercises-treating-preventing-osteoporosis-3430222.html

    In fact, I am now very interested in a sort of physical program more intense than the simple daily walk. I want to diminish my abdominal fat.
    I am on vacation Off-drugs and start feeling better in terms of fatigue. I think that this feeling is just a trick from my mind because the testosterone levels are still very low. May tests gave results equal to the ones from 3-months ago (T= <0.01 ng/ml; PSA=0.02 ng/ml). However, I see/feel my testes getting bigger and feel more energetic. This goes against what I have read that improvements start about three months after the end of the drugs’ effectiveness period. That should happen, in my case, in August. Could it be my Positive thinking?

    Nevertheless I am now confronting another episode in health which I recommend you to consider as a survivor of radiation therapy.
    In two occasions (one year apart) I experienced visible blood in my stool. That happen after a daylong at the golf course and I imagined the cause being the stressful exercise (4.5 hours and hot weather). However, three FOBT tests (faecal occult blood test) done in April were positive and my GP sent me for a sigmoidoscopy, that found scar tissue at the end part of the rectum.
    The finding could indicate that the blood is due to proctitis caused by radiation (as a late side effect, since RT was done 6 years ago). But my Pca doctor who I visited last week recommended me to get a consultation with a Gastroenterologist for a full colonoscopy.

    What could that be? Colon cancer?
    I want to believe that the problem is proctitis. Let’s wait before drawing a conclusion.

    Thanks again for the information.

    The best to you.
    VGama</p>

    Blood
    Vasco,
    Ihad radiation to my bladder that ended in October, 2010. I found in themonths that followed, to this day, if I strained I would bleed. It is enough to scare you. As long as I donot strain there is no blood. They told me I could have surgery to fix it. I did not want the surgery so I decided not to strain. As long as I do not strain there is no blood.
    Do you think it might be related to this? I hope so. There is enough cancer flowing in our bodies to have it pop up anywhere. My oncologist sats that cancer goes two ways. It either goes to the bone, or to the organs. Mine went to the organs. It would seem logical that cancer would go to my intestines. Not sure what type of cancer you have; bones, vs organs, but it seems it stays within its boundaries. Although I am going for a bone scan because of pain in my ribs.
    I hope yours is more to do with the radiation. I wish you well.
    Good luck.

    Mike
  • Brian R.
    Brian R. Member Posts: 8

    Brian; Copyright protection
    Brian

    Thanks for caring. I really would like to watch the video. I followed your instructions but got this warning message each time I tried. Is there a different way for getting it?;
    “Due to copyright reasons this video program is available for download by people located in Australia only. If you are not located in Australia, you are not authorised to view this video”

    http://search.abc.net.au/search/search.cgi?form=simple&num_ranks=20&collection=abcall&query=catalyst

    In any case, I got a radio program which addresses the same matter. Is it the same as the video?
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/healthreport/exercise-and-bones/3606714

    There is another site at Yahoo connecting physical fitness with prevention for osteoporosis here;
    http://voices.yahoo.com/exercises-treating-preventing-osteoporosis-3430222.html

    In fact, I am now very interested in a sort of physical program more intense than the simple daily walk. I want to diminish my abdominal fat.
    I am on vacation Off-drugs and start feeling better in terms of fatigue. I think that this feeling is just a trick from my mind because the testosterone levels are still very low. May tests gave results equal to the ones from 3-months ago (T= <0.01 ng/ml; PSA=0.02 ng/ml). However, I see/feel my testes getting bigger and feel more energetic. This goes against what I have read that improvements start about three months after the end of the drugs’ effectiveness period. That should happen, in my case, in August. Could it be my Positive thinking?

    Nevertheless I am now confronting another episode in health which I recommend you to consider as a survivor of radiation therapy.
    In two occasions (one year apart) I experienced visible blood in my stool. That happen after a daylong at the golf course and I imagined the cause being the stressful exercise (4.5 hours and hot weather). However, three FOBT tests (faecal occult blood test) done in April were positive and my GP sent me for a sigmoidoscopy, that found scar tissue at the end part of the rectum.
    The finding could indicate that the blood is due to proctitis caused by radiation (as a late side effect, since RT was done 6 years ago). But my Pca doctor who I visited last week recommended me to get a consultation with a Gastroenterologist for a full colonoscopy.

    What could that be? Colon cancer?
    I want to believe that the problem is proctitis. Let’s wait before drawing a conclusion.

    Thanks again for the information.

    The best to you.
    VGama</p>

    Exercise & bone loss
    Vasco
    Sorry to hear that you cannot get that program, I did not realize that it was only available in Australia. The radio program was not the same, the TV one especialy mentioned bone lose due to HT treatment, and it is run by the University of New South Wales (Australia) medicine Lifestyle Clinic.
    They had the patients with two feet together jumping over small say 100mm high jumps, jumping off little platforms 75 to 100mm hight and landing with feet together, and jumping up again, explaining that it is impact exercise that helps the bones to stay strong, they had one old fellow on HT treatment and with the exercises had not had any bone loss, and I think that is why my running seems to be so good for me as it is a high impact exercise.
    I have spoken to two friends that complain about bleeding when deficating, one has had two colonoscopies there were no problems except the radiation had played havoc with his bowl and colon, and they found he had blood clots as well, all caused by the radiation, the other had two of FOBT show blood, (thats about 4 or 5 years after radiation treatment)had a colonscopy and they found two polops that was all, and his doctor said that the bowl does not take to kindly to radiation treatment. I know one of the two had 3D Tomography Radiation treatment and I think the other had the same, but I had IMRT (Intensity Modulated Radiation Therepy) where they inserted gold markers into the prostate so the machine can follow the prostate better.
    The only blood I have had is a small bit of fresh blood on the tissue when I wiped after having a very large stool that took some strain, and hurt to pass, and I think I got a small split in my anal spincter as it was sore and felt like I had gravel there, a smaller spot the next day with some discomfort. But now seems to have healed up. Will keep an eye on it, but I eat a very high fibre diet with plenty of fruit and vegtables, and I have an idea that the Flomaxtra tablets I am taking to help me urinate, not only help the protate to relax, I think it tends to relax some of the other muscles as well.

    All the best
    Brian
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,641 Member

    Blood
    Vasco,
    Ihad radiation to my bladder that ended in October, 2010. I found in themonths that followed, to this day, if I strained I would bleed. It is enough to scare you. As long as I donot strain there is no blood. They told me I could have surgery to fix it. I did not want the surgery so I decided not to strain. As long as I do not strain there is no blood.
    Do you think it might be related to this? I hope so. There is enough cancer flowing in our bodies to have it pop up anywhere. My oncologist sats that cancer goes two ways. It either goes to the bone, or to the organs. Mine went to the organs. It would seem logical that cancer would go to my intestines. Not sure what type of cancer you have; bones, vs organs, but it seems it stays within its boundaries. Although I am going for a bone scan because of pain in my ribs.
    I hope yours is more to do with the radiation. I wish you well.
    Good luck.

    Mike

    Samsung; I appreciate your opinion very much
    Mike

    Thanks for the worries, information and wishes. I appreciate the exchange of opinions among us PCa survivors. Our posts help a lot in understanding and follow the problem pernickety.
    You are right about the possibility of PCa metastasizing to organs, firstly, though it seems to be rare. My case could be of that group.
    The bladder and rectum stand closer to the prostate and guys that got Seminal Vesicle (SV) invasion may be at higher risk for closer metastases at bladder walls (sitting just above them). Also RP guys with positive margins at the places of dissection (at rectum and at sphincter-bladder) may have extensions of the cancer in those areas. Positive margins may lead to future recurrence/metastases. These are T3 guys who usually require a follow up salvage treatment (my case).

    However, according to the medical literature the first place where cancer is found is at the lymph nodes servicing the area (closer to the glands’ walls).
    T4 guys got that classification due to confirmed spread at the organs. T3b is an earlier stage with cancer found at the SV.

    There is a case typical to the possibility. Here is the link;
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3019600/

    What is worrisome in the above case is that this patient was declared a T2b at the time of diagnosis with due negative image studies. A latter cystoscopy revealed the presence of prostate cancer in the bladder.
    No one knows if the cancer was there from the beginning but, again this shows how important it is to get an upmost and proper diagnosis. In your case you could demand for a cystoscopy to verify the interior of the bladder. I recall at diagnosis seeing it pink colourful walls and smooth. The last cystoscopy was done in 2008 (two years after RT) and shown similar results but the urethra’ walls had scar tissue.

    My PSA tests show a constant stable low level which makes me to believe that something else is happening in the colon. But one can only guess.
    Your case with a zero PSA since starting the hormonal treatment signifies that the cancer responds well to hormonal manipulation. The aggressivity is of concern when trying to control its advance. I sincerely hope that your scan comes negative. In any case there are newer drugs very efficient in dealing with bone metastases (Alpharadin) which you can inquire in your next consultation.

    Thanks again for the suggestion.
    Sincerely
    VGama
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,641 Member
    Brian R. said:

    Exercise & bone loss
    Vasco
    Sorry to hear that you cannot get that program, I did not realize that it was only available in Australia. The radio program was not the same, the TV one especialy mentioned bone lose due to HT treatment, and it is run by the University of New South Wales (Australia) medicine Lifestyle Clinic.
    They had the patients with two feet together jumping over small say 100mm high jumps, jumping off little platforms 75 to 100mm hight and landing with feet together, and jumping up again, explaining that it is impact exercise that helps the bones to stay strong, they had one old fellow on HT treatment and with the exercises had not had any bone loss, and I think that is why my running seems to be so good for me as it is a high impact exercise.
    I have spoken to two friends that complain about bleeding when deficating, one has had two colonoscopies there were no problems except the radiation had played havoc with his bowl and colon, and they found he had blood clots as well, all caused by the radiation, the other had two of FOBT show blood, (thats about 4 or 5 years after radiation treatment)had a colonscopy and they found two polops that was all, and his doctor said that the bowl does not take to kindly to radiation treatment. I know one of the two had 3D Tomography Radiation treatment and I think the other had the same, but I had IMRT (Intensity Modulated Radiation Therepy) where they inserted gold markers into the prostate so the machine can follow the prostate better.
    The only blood I have had is a small bit of fresh blood on the tissue when I wiped after having a very large stool that took some strain, and hurt to pass, and I think I got a small split in my anal spincter as it was sore and felt like I had gravel there, a smaller spot the next day with some discomfort. But now seems to have healed up. Will keep an eye on it, but I eat a very high fibre diet with plenty of fruit and vegtables, and I have an idea that the Flomaxtra tablets I am taking to help me urinate, not only help the protate to relax, I think it tends to relax some of the other muscles as well.

    All the best
    Brian

    Is diet my real problem ?
    Brian

    Thanks again for the comments on exercise and the added suggestions on my symptoms. Surely I did not want to alarm you for the fact that you could expect similar effects as those of mine. My post was informative and suggestive of vigilance. As you described our RT protocols are different so that one can expect different outcomes.

    In fact I also tend to believe that the positive FOBTs may be a cause of diet at my erroneous judgement. My GP told me of similar symptoms in cases of constant soft stools; and I had no hard stool since radiation treatment in Nov/Dec 2006. Radiation have caused to a certain extent lost of sensation at the anal sphincter when passing stool, but the faeces are not hard as before. Traces of blood cannot be seen by the open-eye and the colour looks normal.

    The biggest portion in my breakfast has been and it is the cereal 100% wheat bran taken with fruits and un-sugared natural yogurt. I have this (wherever I have been) since a case of acute haemorrhoids 34 years ago at suggestion of my wife, and the problem has healed without medication or treatment, and it never occurred again. However, my diet may be erroneous in guys recovering from SRT. It seems that Fibre equals to healthy diet and friendly bowel “works” but is bad to other health aspects.
    Other components in my diet always include lots of vegetables (I love salads and soups), fish and seasonal fruits. That load of fibre makes me think that a big part of the digestion has been done along the years in the intestines.

    Nevertheless, I have followed the opposite recommendations of UCSF in RT patients;
    “… to avoid or reduce fried foods, greasy foods and highly spiced foods. Reduce foods with insoluble fiber, such as lettuce and cauliflower, and increase low-fiber and soluable-fiber foods, such as bananas, mashed potatoes, applesauce, white rice, canned or cooked fruits and vegetables.
    Maintain your intake of lean proteins, such as turkey, chicken and fish, and increase your fluid intake to avoid dehydration…”

    http://www.ucsfhealth.org/education/radiation_therapy_for_prostate_cancer/index.html

    These two effects (diet and RT) may be the cause of my symptoms, but the other aspect in my journey with PCa worries me. The path report (after RP) indicates positive margins (SV negative) at the two places of dissection, bladder and rectum. These are common extra invasion areas in some patients with voluminous cancers. They also relate to the areas where micrometastases managed to get out from the prostate capsule.

    At RT planning this theory was taken and the radiation field protocol included particular care at these two areas which justifies well the scars found at both places. I had no fiducials inserted because I had no prostate but the IMRT (68 Grays in 37 fractions) was done under live guidance with weekly CT. The consequences of radiation effects were pondered at dose planning (I had weekly informed meetings with the radiologist), and knew about the risks but the intent was at cure so that I am hopeful that nothing else than scars occur.

    My uro-oncologist does not think that radiation proctitis caused the symptoms after 6 years. The red blood at the two occasions could be blushing in inner haemorrhoidal vessels that burst due to weaker consistence of vessel’s walls.
    In any case, without a full colonoscopy one can only guess. I hope to get a convenient answer from a gastroenterologist.

    Thanks again for the valuable information. Wishing that you and your friends are doing well and controlling the beast.

    Best
    VGama
  • Brian R.
    Brian R. Member Posts: 8

    Is diet my real problem ?
    Brian

    Thanks again for the comments on exercise and the added suggestions on my symptoms. Surely I did not want to alarm you for the fact that you could expect similar effects as those of mine. My post was informative and suggestive of vigilance. As you described our RT protocols are different so that one can expect different outcomes.

    In fact I also tend to believe that the positive FOBTs may be a cause of diet at my erroneous judgement. My GP told me of similar symptoms in cases of constant soft stools; and I had no hard stool since radiation treatment in Nov/Dec 2006. Radiation have caused to a certain extent lost of sensation at the anal sphincter when passing stool, but the faeces are not hard as before. Traces of blood cannot be seen by the open-eye and the colour looks normal.

    The biggest portion in my breakfast has been and it is the cereal 100% wheat bran taken with fruits and un-sugared natural yogurt. I have this (wherever I have been) since a case of acute haemorrhoids 34 years ago at suggestion of my wife, and the problem has healed without medication or treatment, and it never occurred again. However, my diet may be erroneous in guys recovering from SRT. It seems that Fibre equals to healthy diet and friendly bowel “works” but is bad to other health aspects.
    Other components in my diet always include lots of vegetables (I love salads and soups), fish and seasonal fruits. That load of fibre makes me think that a big part of the digestion has been done along the years in the intestines.

    Nevertheless, I have followed the opposite recommendations of UCSF in RT patients;
    “… to avoid or reduce fried foods, greasy foods and highly spiced foods. Reduce foods with insoluble fiber, such as lettuce and cauliflower, and increase low-fiber and soluable-fiber foods, such as bananas, mashed potatoes, applesauce, white rice, canned or cooked fruits and vegetables.
    Maintain your intake of lean proteins, such as turkey, chicken and fish, and increase your fluid intake to avoid dehydration…”

    http://www.ucsfhealth.org/education/radiation_therapy_for_prostate_cancer/index.html

    These two effects (diet and RT) may be the cause of my symptoms, but the other aspect in my journey with PCa worries me. The path report (after RP) indicates positive margins (SV negative) at the two places of dissection, bladder and rectum. These are common extra invasion areas in some patients with voluminous cancers. They also relate to the areas where micrometastases managed to get out from the prostate capsule.

    At RT planning this theory was taken and the radiation field protocol included particular care at these two areas which justifies well the scars found at both places. I had no fiducials inserted because I had no prostate but the IMRT (68 Grays in 37 fractions) was done under live guidance with weekly CT. The consequences of radiation effects were pondered at dose planning (I had weekly informed meetings with the radiologist), and knew about the risks but the intent was at cure so that I am hopeful that nothing else than scars occur.

    My uro-oncologist does not think that radiation proctitis caused the symptoms after 6 years. The red blood at the two occasions could be blushing in inner haemorrhoidal vessels that burst due to weaker consistence of vessel’s walls.
    In any case, without a full colonoscopy one can only guess. I hope to get a convenient answer from a gastroenterologist.

    Thanks again for the valuable information. Wishing that you and your friends are doing well and controlling the beast.

    Best
    VGama

    Radiation effects
    Vasco I haven't been on the site for a while, and wondered how you were progressing, I am still on flomaxtra but seem to be urinating a bit better at night now, no problems during the day, stream can be like a firemans hose some times. I have seen my specialist last month and he was happy with me, PSA readings still <0.01 and testosterone still at <0.5 with DRE exam still good. I found out then that I have 2 more 3 monthly Eligard injections to go 1 in Sept and 1 in Dec which will take me through to March 2013. I mentioned to him that urinating at night after being horizontal for a while was still a bit difficult at times, and he said "They think (don't know) that the Eligard sometimes causes some slight inflamation to the prostrate". I have my own ideas about that and the lack of Testosterone that the prostrate might need. Since them I have had a FOB and all 3 test came back negative.

    Regards

    Brian
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,641 Member
    Brian R. said:

    Radiation effects
    Vasco I haven't been on the site for a while, and wondered how you were progressing, I am still on flomaxtra but seem to be urinating a bit better at night now, no problems during the day, stream can be like a firemans hose some times. I have seen my specialist last month and he was happy with me, PSA readings still <0.01 and testosterone still at <0.5 with DRE exam still good. I found out then that I have 2 more 3 monthly Eligard injections to go 1 in Sept and 1 in Dec which will take me through to March 2013. I mentioned to him that urinating at night after being horizontal for a while was still a bit difficult at times, and he said "They think (don't know) that the Eligard sometimes causes some slight inflamation to the prostrate". I have my own ideas about that and the lack of Testosterone that the prostrate might need. Since them I have had a FOB and all 3 test came back negative.

    Regards

    Brian</p>

    Radiation effects
    Brian

    Thanks for the wishes. I congratulate your results and sincerely hope you continue the treatment successfully.

    Regarding my colon problem, I am still in the “limbo”. I did a “virtual” colonoscopy (colon CT) at the orders of my doctor which image failed to find something. I think it unreliable because this CT can only catch images bigger than 8 mm. The computer software re-construes the image in folds of 4 and that means many portions (small) disappear.
    This is probably good for preventive low risk cases but mine is more serious for the history with PCa, radiation treatment and positive FOBT tests.

    I have decided to get a consultation with a different Gastroenterologist (specialist in problems with RT scars) and will meet him at the last week of August (waiting for confirmed date as he is on holidays) to follow with due full colonoscopy. I am hopeful for sort of inner haemorrhoids so that one can treat it with Scheriproct cream (prednisone) or similar. This was the medication provided to me just after radiotherapy, but I do not know if the case is that simple.

    Soon it will be Spring in your place. Enjoy the flowers.
    Where are you from?
    I was involved in the FS study (1982) for the railway truck Alice Springs / Darwin.

    Best
    VGama
  • Brian R.
    Brian R. Member Posts: 8

    Radiation effects
    Brian

    Thanks for the wishes. I congratulate your results and sincerely hope you continue the treatment successfully.

    Regarding my colon problem, I am still in the “limbo”. I did a “virtual” colonoscopy (colon CT) at the orders of my doctor which image failed to find something. I think it unreliable because this CT can only catch images bigger than 8 mm. The computer software re-construes the image in folds of 4 and that means many portions (small) disappear.
    This is probably good for preventive low risk cases but mine is more serious for the history with PCa, radiation treatment and positive FOBT tests.

    I have decided to get a consultation with a different Gastroenterologist (specialist in problems with RT scars) and will meet him at the last week of August (waiting for confirmed date as he is on holidays) to follow with due full colonoscopy. I am hopeful for sort of inner haemorrhoids so that one can treat it with Scheriproct cream (prednisone) or similar. This was the medication provided to me just after radiotherapy, but I do not know if the case is that simple.

    Soon it will be Spring in your place. Enjoy the flowers.
    Where are you from?
    I was involved in the FS study (1982) for the railway truck Alice Springs / Darwin.

    Best
    VGama

    Colonoscopy
    Vasco I wish you the best, and are suprised they only did a 'virtual" colonoscopy, because over here, if your FOB is positive then send you for a colonoscopy (not a virtual one) as a real look picks ups polops and all, and they fix them at the same time.
    I live in little fishing village of about 150 people on the North Coast of NSW called Minnie Water, with good fishing and 3 surf beaches. Though the house is up for sale as our children want us to be closer incase something happens to me and it is 6 1/2 to 7 hour drive for them to get here. So while both of us are still able to do a move by our self we will move south about 500 klm to be a bit closer for them. But still on the coast.

    Cheers
    Brian