supplements and chemo

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Comments

  • scared99
    scared99 Member Posts: 72
    tanstaafl said:

    fortunate
    Andrew, we think our lives or wives (ahem) are worth it. Most people have to rely on others' opinions about medicine and supplements. Thanks to advances in medical science, laboratory technologies, (neo)adjuvant treatment with clinical observation and biomarkers, that is changing. We have been able to utilize some of these, to predict and directly measure the impact of treatments, including the "supplements".

    With "supplements", one can manipulate the same molecular pathways as do "targeted drugs" but with less damage and side effects. And no having to beg the insurance company or doctors, or wait. This allows more molecular pathways to be treated with more active substances with less toxicity for longer time periods. And with less damage to the family and national budget.

    Thank you guys for all the
    Thank you guys for all the responses. My mom finished her first chemo treatment on Wed and she said she feels pretty good. She said she will ask her oncologist after her next treatment what supplements she can take. I believe after her next treatment they are redoing scans to see how things are going.
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624
    peterz54 said:

    educate thyself
    one experience with hearsay shouldn't sour you on supplements in general. it makes sense to be cautious and skeptical, but I think it is also a huge mistake to discount all supplements because of false claims about some. And even a bigger mistake to advise anyoone else to ignore them considering research to the contrary. There is just to much positive published research on a number of plant extracts to ignore, and I'm refereing to research published in professional journals and replicated at the NIH Libraray of Medicine, not claims by pill pushers.

    As I have mentioned already, a number of supplements (plant extracts) have undergone trials and been the subject of research over the years and it is clear to me (and some oncologists/researcers) that they are of value, not as replacements to standard therapy but to augment therapy or to just help with one's health in general.

    but supplements aside, just switch to a plant based diet if nothing else - berries, nuts, colored vegetables.."research" supports this as well

    Keep in mind
    No reason to go "nuts" (pun intended):)and hurry up to a vegan diet of berries, nuts, colored vegetables, it certainly has not been proven (except in the minds of other vegans)that becoming vegan helps your colorectal cancer health. Now is the time when nutrition and yes even nice fattening goodies like shakes is probably more needed then any other time when going through chemo. It is not the time to make a drastic change. (although we can all improve our nutritional health) Many a vegan has Stage IV Colorectal Cancer and many other cancers, it does not make you immune.
    Please ask your mother's onc (and your mother)before switching her to that style of diet, the stress might be way worse for her unless she is already vegan.
    Winter Marie
  • luvinlife2
    luvinlife2 Member Posts: 172
    Naturopath Oncologists
    will have the best information regarding supplements and how they interact with chemotherapy. Oncologists know chemo but most do not have much knowledge about supplements. You mentioned that you've bought Milk Thistle for your Mom, but did you know that Milk Thistle will reduce the effectiveness of Xeloda and 5fu? I'm all for supplementation but I can't stress enough how important it is to seek the advice of a naturopath who specializes in oncology (preferably one who is board certified) and your own oncologist before taking anything with the chemo.

    All the best to your Mom :)
  • peterz54
    peterz54 Member Posts: 341
    Curcumin & colon cancer
    Scholarly articles on Curcumin and Colon Cancer

    My wife's Oncologist prefers the spice Tumeric, but if one can't prepare food with tumeric, she advocates the extract curcumin, which can be obtained in pill form. This is just one of several promissing substances derived from plants.
  • Nana b
    Nana b Member Posts: 3,030
    peterz54 said:

    Curcumin & colon cancer
    Scholarly articles on Curcumin and Colon Cancer

    My wife's Oncologist prefers the spice Tumeric, but if one can't prepare food with tumeric, she advocates the extract curcumin, which can be obtained in pill form. This is just one of several promissing substances derived from plants.

    I'm on Xeloda and have gone
    I'm on Xeloda and have gone off of all supplements to included tumeric and milk thistle. I posted a web cam last night on this site, and was surprised to find that some chemos, like Avastin do not add substantial life to one, WOW, and all that chemo in the body! I am going to talk to my ONC about my Xeloda, I have no evidence of disease just a spiking CEA. I will find out on Tuesday, how this XELODA affected my CEA, if no change, I am going off of it. The presenter also indicated that we should go by CT and not Pets, I am going to ask to stop the pets also. I don't need all that extra radiation.
  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,299 Member
    ?
    Hi, Kathy, welcome back. I agree that adding a naturopathic physcian specializing in oncology should be advantageous.

    Kathy, it would useful if any documentation that you or he have in mind about milk thistle/extracts - 5FU interactions, could be linked. Silymarin is known to be protective of the kidney and liver cells as well as reducing cyctochrome P450 activity that converts tegafur to 5FU. Various paper indicate that the silibinin fraction of milk thistle is active against various cancer cells singlely and in some chemo combinations, sometimes containing 5FU, but the colorectal literature is sparse.

    In my wife's treatment, whether milk thistle does or does not sometimes inhibit 5FU, her silymarin containing formula does kill metastatic cancer cells for prolonged periods (based on pathology, tumor cell kill tests, CEA). Where many 5FU protocols poop out over 6-15 months, her formula appears to still be working after 25 months.
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122
    This thread is hysterical!
    Although much of the "alternative remedies" are near worthless,
    Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) has been around serving
    billions upon billions of humans for nearly four thousand years.

    Those that doubt the value of TCM should be aware that TCM
    has been used for thousands of years prior to "western medicine"
    with great success, most of which has been well documented.

    It is unfortunate, but the definition of ailments in TCM are quite
    different than the same ailments in western medicine. The same
    malady is treated totally differently for the two sciences.

    Western medicine attempts to remove the symptoms of the cause of
    the problem, leaving the actual cause behind,

    Traditional Chinese Medicine attempts to resolve the actual cause
    of the underlying problem, and when accomplished, the symptoms
    disappear.

    High blood pressure is a symptom.
    Atrial fibrillation is a symptom.
    Kidney stones are a symptom.
    Blood clots (DVT) are a symptom.

    I have been cured of all, thanks to TCM!

    There are "alternative" things to try, and some may work!

    There also is a science that is over four thousand years old,
    that has served billions upon billions of humans for all that
    time; that is used for livestock as well, with great results,
    and is continued to be used in the finest of Asian hospitals
    and many of the finest of American health facilities!

    That science is TCM.

    It is only an "alternative" where it is not routine.....

    Best wishes for better health!

    John
  • peterz54
    peterz54 Member Posts: 341
    John23 said:

    This thread is hysterical!
    Although much of the "alternative remedies" are near worthless,
    Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) has been around serving
    billions upon billions of humans for nearly four thousand years.

    Those that doubt the value of TCM should be aware that TCM
    has been used for thousands of years prior to "western medicine"
    with great success, most of which has been well documented.

    It is unfortunate, but the definition of ailments in TCM are quite
    different than the same ailments in western medicine. The same
    malady is treated totally differently for the two sciences.

    Western medicine attempts to remove the symptoms of the cause of
    the problem, leaving the actual cause behind,

    Traditional Chinese Medicine attempts to resolve the actual cause
    of the underlying problem, and when accomplished, the symptoms
    disappear.

    High blood pressure is a symptom.
    Atrial fibrillation is a symptom.
    Kidney stones are a symptom.
    Blood clots (DVT) are a symptom.

    I have been cured of all, thanks to TCM!

    There are "alternative" things to try, and some may work!

    There also is a science that is over four thousand years old,
    that has served billions upon billions of humans for all that
    time; that is used for livestock as well, with great results,
    and is continued to be used in the finest of Asian hospitals
    and many of the finest of American health facilities!

    That science is TCM.

    It is only an "alternative" where it is not routine.....

    Best wishes for better health!

    John

    evidence first
    a number of plants used in TCM and other traditions are being evaluated for their effects on various cancers.

    Regardlesss of tradition, it should be evident that plants represent a potentially vast pharmacopia that should not be ignored. But I would never subscribe to any supplement or food without evidence in the form of testing using modern scientific methods.

    Traditional Chinese Medicine & cancer
  • luvinlife2
    luvinlife2 Member Posts: 172
    tanstaafl said:

    ?
    Hi, Kathy, welcome back. I agree that adding a naturopathic physcian specializing in oncology should be advantageous.

    Kathy, it would useful if any documentation that you or he have in mind about milk thistle/extracts - 5FU interactions, could be linked. Silymarin is known to be protective of the kidney and liver cells as well as reducing cyctochrome P450 activity that converts tegafur to 5FU. Various paper indicate that the silibinin fraction of milk thistle is active against various cancer cells singlely and in some chemo combinations, sometimes containing 5FU, but the colorectal literature is sparse.

    In my wife's treatment, whether milk thistle does or does not sometimes inhibit 5FU, her silymarin containing formula does kill metastatic cancer cells for prolonged periods (based on pathology, tumor cell kill tests, CEA). Where many 5FU protocols poop out over 6-15 months, her formula appears to still be working after 25 months.

    Thanks :)
    My nat doc told me so I will ask him for the info and post. I'm there again this week. :)
  • luvinlife2
    luvinlife2 Member Posts: 172
    John23 said:

    This thread is hysterical!
    Although much of the "alternative remedies" are near worthless,
    Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) has been around serving
    billions upon billions of humans for nearly four thousand years.

    Those that doubt the value of TCM should be aware that TCM
    has been used for thousands of years prior to "western medicine"
    with great success, most of which has been well documented.

    It is unfortunate, but the definition of ailments in TCM are quite
    different than the same ailments in western medicine. The same
    malady is treated totally differently for the two sciences.

    Western medicine attempts to remove the symptoms of the cause of
    the problem, leaving the actual cause behind,

    Traditional Chinese Medicine attempts to resolve the actual cause
    of the underlying problem, and when accomplished, the symptoms
    disappear.

    High blood pressure is a symptom.
    Atrial fibrillation is a symptom.
    Kidney stones are a symptom.
    Blood clots (DVT) are a symptom.

    I have been cured of all, thanks to TCM!

    There are "alternative" things to try, and some may work!

    There also is a science that is over four thousand years old,
    that has served billions upon billions of humans for all that
    time; that is used for livestock as well, with great results,
    and is continued to be used in the finest of Asian hospitals
    and many of the finest of American health facilities!

    That science is TCM.

    It is only an "alternative" where it is not routine.....

    Best wishes for better health!

    John

    Hysterical???
    LOL...you always make me smile John!

    I'm glad that TCM cured you! Unfortunately, as with other types of medicines, it doesn't cure everyone and does not have all the answers despite the thousands of years behind the medicine. I wish it did.

    In Vancouver, TCM is hardly considered alternative anymore. With an ever growing Chinese population the demand for TCM is huge and some of it is now covered under our public health care system. We have an international college of TCM that I understand has a waitlist of students eager to learn and practice TCM.

    I tried TCM under the care of a highly respected Dr. who also teaches at the college. He has a long list of people who have been cured from various cancers, and an even longer list of people he's healed from various illnesses. He's been practicing for 32 years and knows what he's doing. I stopped all chemo, supplements and treatments in order to give TCM a decent go at my cancer without any interference. The Dr. was confident I would start to see results at about 8 weeks.

    In a nutshell, after 3 months my CEA went from 16 to 102.5. A CT scan showed that my 5 small liver mets were more than double in size and there were now many new mets. My lungs mets had also doubled in size. My CT scan prior to starting the TCM showed calcification and regression of same. It appeared that my cancer quite liked the TCM teas as I've not had this kind of aggressive progression with any of my chemo breaks. To say I was devastated would be an understatement.

    I am not dismissing the effectiveness of TCM. I believe that it has a lot to offer, however, I don't think it's necessarily better than other types of medicine nor do I think that the science is better because it's been around longer. There's a lot of very good newer science that we also can't dismiss. My cancer seems to respond better to these newly developed treatments.

    I feel that we have to find what works for us as individuals. I personally favor integrating all types of medicine in my cancer fight just so I'm approaching it from as many angles as possible. I still do acupuncture and a couple of relaxation treatments which are very beneficial to my overall health in addition to naturopath treatments and chemo.

    All the best to you :)