Finally the ACS steps up, anyone want to pat Pete on the back?

son of hal
son of hal Member Posts: 117
Cancer survivors urged to eat better, exercise
Published - Apr 26 2012 12:34PM EST

MIKE STOBBE, AP Medical Writer

ATLANTA (AP) — A cancer diagnosis often inspires people to exercise and eat healthier. Now the experts say there's strong evidence that both habits may help prevent the disease from coming back.

New guidelines issued Thursday by the American Cancer Society urge doctors to talk to their cancer patients about eating right, exercising and slimming down if they're too heavy.

That's not something most doctors do, said Dr. Omer Kucuk, an Emory University oncologist who has researched the effect of nutrition on prostate cancer. They're focused on surgery, chemotherapy or other treatments for their patients, he added.

"Usually the last thing on their mind is to talk about diet and exercise," Kucuk said.

Cancer society officials have long encouraged healthy eating and exercise as a way to prevent certain cancers. They and others have tried to spread that gospel to cancer survivors as well. Indeed, the cancer society has a certification program for fitness professionals who work with cancer survivors.

But until now, the group didn't think there was enough research to support a strong statement for cancer survivors.

Hastine Reese, a breast cancer survivor, says she began to exercise because her husband — not her doctor — pushed her. Besides being good for her health, he thought it might help pull her out of the depression that followed her diagnosis and double-mastectomy.

"When you're first diagnosed with cancer, you go into a dark place," said Reese, as she finished a one-hour exercise class this week at DeKalb Medical Center in Decatur, Ga.

Exercise has changed that. "I'm coming into the light, and it's getting brighter and brighter," she said.

Being overweight or obese has long been tied to an increased risk of several types of cancer, including cancers of the colon, esophagus, kidney, pancreas and — in postmenopausal women — breast. But there hadn't been much evidence on the effects of diet and exercise for people who had had cancer.

The last five years saw more than 100 studies involving cancer survivors, many of them showing that exercise and/or a healthy diet was associated with lower cancer recurrence rates and longer survival.

Most of the research was on breast, prostate and colorectal cancer. The evidence is more meager when it comes to other cancers, including the deadliest kind, lung cancer. Also, most of the work involved observational studies, which can't prove a cause and effect. Still, the volume of research was compelling.

"We've got enough data now to make these recommendations," said Colleen Doyle, the organization's director of nutrition and physical activity.

At least two other medical groups have strongly recommended exercise and healthier eating for cancer survivors, but the cancer society's new guidelines are expected to have much greater impact. It's the nation's largest cancer charity in both donations and the number of volunteers, and it funds more cancer research than any other non-governmental agency.

There was a time when cancer patients were thought of as gaunt and dying souls. Many cancers were diagnosed at a late stage, after the disease had ravaged the body and caused weight loss.

But better screening and treatment has made early diagnosis of cancer more common and survival more likely. Today, more than two-thirds of cancer patients live at least five years. The ranks of cancer survivors have grown, with more than 12 million Americans identified as cancer survivors.

Meanwhile, obesity has boomed. More than two-thirds of U.S. adults are now considered overweight or obese.

The guidelines recognize that for some people just eating enough food is a priority, and that diet advice can vary during treatment. The cancer society also notes that some people may be too weak at times for vigorous exercise. But experts say that even modest activities, like lifting soup cans while watching TV, can help.

Women seem to take to exercise and diet recommendations more readily than men, or to push their spouses to follow the advice, some doctors said. Most of Reese's classmates were women.

"I find women to be very, very proactive," said Dr. Allen Lawhead, a gynecologic oncologist at DeKalb Medical Center. "Men, we traditionally go back into our man cave and hide."

Lawrence Genter, a survivor of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, was one of three men in Reese's class of about a dozen. "I'm here because of my wife," he said.

For another cancer survivor, exercise came easy but eating healthy was a challenge. During chemotherapy, nausea is common and food can seem unappetizing.

"The key thing is to eat period — whatever you can get down and keep down," said Bob Falkenberg of Alpharetta, Ga., who was a marathoner and long-distance cyclist before he was diagnosed with leukemia.

What did he eat during chemo? Mexican food. Hamburgers.

"I had people bring in pizza at one point," he laughed.

___

Online:

American Cancer Society: http://www.cancer.org/

Way to go Pete!!!!
«1

Comments

  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624 Member
    I think
    I believe most of the people on this board feel the same way about exercise and eating right, I know NanaB and many, many others do so and encourage everyone else to do so. It's common sense, unfortunately enough of us don't have the common sense. LOL (me being one of those). So Kudos to ALL who eat the right stuff and exercise!!!!!
    Winter Marie
  • plh4gail
    plh4gail Member Posts: 1,238 Member
    I looked and looked for
    I looked and looked for Petes name in that article. Did I miss it?

    I know of several people on here (and some who used to be) who live healthy, eat healthy, and share their journey with others. And then there are those that seek out help, asking question about making changes, looking for healthy approaches.

    Me...I am working on it as well.

    Way to go to all who survive!.... even if we choose do so without pooping via enema in the ocean (EW). That still grosses me out!
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624 Member
    plh4gail said:

    I looked and looked for
    I looked and looked for Petes name in that article. Did I miss it?

    I know of several people on here (and some who used to be) who live healthy, eat healthy, and share their journey with others. And then there are those that seek out help, asking question about making changes, looking for healthy approaches.

    Me...I am working on it as well.

    Way to go to all who survive!.... even if we choose do so without pooping via enema in the ocean (EW). That still grosses me out!

    Gail
    I was going to put more names down but the darn chemo fog came into play, and I couldn't remember anyone's name, but yes, you are another that encourages and shares your journey of healthiness, things that we all can do and see reason in, I'm hoping one day, it'll sink into reality for me some day due to your all's encouragements!!!! (I now eat broccoli and asparagus, a small change, but nonetheless a change in the right direction)Way to Go Gail, and all the others!!! We do appreciate you!!!
    Winter Marie
  • joemetz
    joemetz Member Posts: 493
    great article
    i really enjoyed this article... i was also looking for Pete's name in there. and others from here... but it's really good.

    I have a quesiton for others who might have the colostomy bag... I was told by my docs and the things that i read that salads, brocilli and other vegies are gasy and don't process well... i've finally started to eat a bit of salad the other day so i am experimenting more.... but has anyone had any problems with salads with a bag? or should i say it the other way... should i eat salads and other veggies?

    right now, i'm like the last paragraph in the article... I eat what i can when i can, and it seems that pizza, subway sandwiches, and mac & cheeze and PBJ sandwiches on toast... and i also eat a good amount of fish. but i truly miss salads and would love to just chow on a big spinich salad or a salmon ceaser salad. I have taken out almost all red meet. Maybe a small burger once a week to take away hunger pains or to fight off the hangover feeling... but just curious for help regarding salads/veggies and the colostomy bag.

    thanks

    Joe
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    plh4gail said:

    I looked and looked for
    I looked and looked for Petes name in that article. Did I miss it?

    I know of several people on here (and some who used to be) who live healthy, eat healthy, and share their journey with others. And then there are those that seek out help, asking question about making changes, looking for healthy approaches.

    Me...I am working on it as well.

    Way to go to all who survive!.... even if we choose do so without pooping via enema in the ocean (EW). That still grosses me out!

    A Nice Strike Gail
    How quickly some forget...
    P.S. I'm staying in my pool this summer...
  • coloCan
    coloCan Member Posts: 1,944 Member
    joemetz said:

    great article
    i really enjoyed this article... i was also looking for Pete's name in there. and others from here... but it's really good.

    I have a quesiton for others who might have the colostomy bag... I was told by my docs and the things that i read that salads, brocilli and other vegies are gasy and don't process well... i've finally started to eat a bit of salad the other day so i am experimenting more.... but has anyone had any problems with salads with a bag? or should i say it the other way... should i eat salads and other veggies?

    right now, i'm like the last paragraph in the article... I eat what i can when i can, and it seems that pizza, subway sandwiches, and mac & cheeze and PBJ sandwiches on toast... and i also eat a good amount of fish. but i truly miss salads and would love to just chow on a big spinich salad or a salmon ceaser salad. I have taken out almost all red meet. Maybe a small burger once a week to take away hunger pains or to fight off the hangover feeling... but just curious for help regarding salads/veggies and the colostomy bag.

    thanks

    Joe

    Check this::"Healthy Behaviors Extend Life After Cancer"
    consumer.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=664171
    (if you didn't already practice this)
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    thanks son of Hal, winter, gail
    It's another bittersweet day, another Friend up in the stars.

    But this news should give us all hope. The acs conquered diet and exercise.

    I have been blessed in many ways to have patient doctors and Naturopath and friends.
    to educate,care and support me.

    On our little forum we share our journey.

    I did feel foolish posting on our exercise post sometimes.
    So many here replied on the walking posts, especially pepe.

    Whatever health I have I owe to you guys.

    But it's never stopped me before, I say embarrassing this in real life as well.

    The science behind diet and exercise I find compelling, I suspect my quality and quantity
    Depends on it.

    This acs initiative is so positive, the whole cancer world just changed.
    now we have permission to pursue health.
    It's easier for overworked onc's to say go for a walk.

    I wonder if my onc will put up the exercise poster I asked along time ago.

    Maybe our wife's, kids and friends can come on a walk with us.

    It's amazing to think we can pursue health and be a good role model.
    Our families and communities need this message yesterday.

    Tomorrow is my last day in this hardcore vegan health retreat, I will share this great news with them

    I will spring out of bed at tomorrow for my interval training .

    Hugs,
    Pete

    Ps I am grateful for the post son of Hal, I will share this with my family, I am just glad exercise just got easier for us all.
  • plh4gail
    plh4gail Member Posts: 1,238 Member
    I guess my point wasn't
    I guess my point wasn't taken.
  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425 Member

    thanks son of Hal, winter, gail
    It's another bittersweet day, another Friend up in the stars.

    But this news should give us all hope. The acs conquered diet and exercise.

    I have been blessed in many ways to have patient doctors and Naturopath and friends.
    to educate,care and support me.

    On our little forum we share our journey.

    I did feel foolish posting on our exercise post sometimes.
    So many here replied on the walking posts, especially pepe.

    Whatever health I have I owe to you guys.

    But it's never stopped me before, I say embarrassing this in real life as well.

    The science behind diet and exercise I find compelling, I suspect my quality and quantity
    Depends on it.

    This acs initiative is so positive, the whole cancer world just changed.
    now we have permission to pursue health.
    It's easier for overworked onc's to say go for a walk.

    I wonder if my onc will put up the exercise poster I asked along time ago.

    Maybe our wife's, kids and friends can come on a walk with us.

    It's amazing to think we can pursue health and be a good role model.
    Our families and communities need this message yesterday.

    Tomorrow is my last day in this hardcore vegan health retreat, I will share this great news with them

    I will spring out of bed at tomorrow for my interval training .

    Hugs,
    Pete

    Ps I am grateful for the post son of Hal, I will share this with my family, I am just glad exercise just got easier for us all.

    I know with my own onc. I
    I know with my own onc. I asked him about diet anything I should or shouldn't be eating....he looked at me bewildered and just said "eat healthy"...left it wide open. I asked about supplements vitamins....he said not to take folic acid, because of the folinic acid in the chemo mix. His nurse encouraged me to get out and continue riding my bike or get some exercise because it showed it made cancer patients "feel better". This all was mentioned once and one time only. There is a "clinical trial" being conducted here in Ontario on the effects of exercise....stage 1V are excluded....Have Undergone Treatment for High-Risk Stage II or Stage III Colon Cancer

    SummaryTrial DetailsEligibilityCentres / ContactsOfficial Title
    A Phase III Study of the Impact of a Physical Activity Program on Disease-Free Survival in Patients With High Risk Stage II or Stage III Colon Cancer: A Randomized Controlled Trial (CHALLENGE)

    Summary:
    RATIONALE: Participating in a physical activity program designed to increase free time physical activity and receiving written health education materials may influence the chance of cancer recurring as well as impact on physical fitness, psychological well-being and the quality of life of patients who have undergone surgery and chemotherapy for colon cancer. It is not yet known whether giving a physical activity program together with health education materials is more effective than giving health education materials alone for patients who have undergone colon cancer treatment. PURPOSE: This randomized phase III trial is studying a physical activity program given together with health education materials to see how well it works compared with giving health education materials alone for patients who have undergone treatment for high-risk stage II or stage III colon cancer.

    Trial Description
    Primary Outcome:


    •Disease-free survival
    Secondary Outcome:

    •Overall survival
    •Patient-reported outcomes, including quality of life, using SF-36, FACIT-F, PSQI, and HADS questionnaires
    •Objective markers of physical fitness (i.e., body mass index, hip and waist circumference, cardiovascular fitness, and physical function)
    •Physical activity behaviour as assessed by TPAQ
    •Safety profile according to NCI CTCAE version 3.0
    •Correlative biological markers including biochemical and molecular markers associated with insulin-related growth factor and cytokines associated with the mechanisms of fatigue
    •Economic evaluations including cost-effective analysis and cost utility analysis
    •Predictors of physical activity adherence as assessed by Social Cognitive Determinants of Exercise questionnaire
    OBJECTIVES:
    Primary
    •To compare the disease-free survival (DFS) of medically fit patients who have completed surgical resection and adjuvant chemotherapy for high-risk stage II or stage III colon cancer when administered a physical activity program with general health education materials vs general health education materials alone. Secondary
    •To compare the two intervention arms with respect to overall survival (OS); patient-reported outcomes using the SF-36, FACIT-F, PSQI, and HADS questionnaires; objective markers of physical fitness using body mass index, hip and waist circumference, submaximal exercise testing, and the Seniors' Fitness Test; physical activity behaviour using the Total Physical Activity Questionnaire (TPAQ); safety profile as assessed by NCI CTCAE version 3.0; serum levels of insulin (i.e., IGF-1, IGF-2, and IGFBP3); cytokine levels (i.e., IL-1β, IL-6, IL-2, IL-4, IL-8, IL-10, IL-12, TNF-α, IFN-γ, and GM-CSF) and C-reactive protein levels; economic evaluations including cost-effective and cost-utility analyses; and predictors of physical activity adherence using the Social-Cognitive Determinants of Exercise Measure questionnaire.
    •To evaluate the potential prognostic associations of the serum levels of insulin, IGF-1, IGF-2, IGFBP3, blood glucose, cytokines (i.e., IL- 1β, IL-6, IL-2, IL-4, IL-8, IL-10, IL-12, TNF-α, IFN-γ, and GM-CSF), and C-reactive protein with DFS, OS, level of physical activity, and level of fatigue in these patients.
    •To evaluate the potential prognostic associations of age, gender, country, incremental increase in physical activity, and change in cardiovascular fitness with DFS, OS, level of fatigue, and quality of life in these patients.
    OUTLINE:

    This is a multicentre study. Patients are stratified according to disease stage (II vs III), participating centre, body mass index (≤ 27.5 vs > 27.5), and ECOG performance status (0 vs 1). Patients are randomized to 1 of 2 treatment interventions. •Arm I: Patients receive general health education materials regarding nutrition and physical activity and undergo the Colon Health And Life Long Exercise Change (CHALLENGE) physical activity program consisting of behaviour-support sessions and supervised physical activity sessions with a physical activity consultant.
    •Part I (intensive intervention for 6 months): Patients undergo 12 mandatory biweekly face-to-face behaviour support sessions combined with 12 mandatory supervised physical activity sessions to increase their physical activity goal by 10 metabolic equivalent task (MET) hours/week. Twelve supervised physical activity sessions and also recommended on alternate weeks.
    •Part II (reduced intervention for months 6-12): Patients undergo 12 mandatory biweekly face-to-face or telephone behaviour support sessions combined with 12 recommended supervised physical activity sessions to increase their physical activity goal by 20 MET hours/week.
    •Part III (minimal intervention for months 12-36): Patients undergo mandatory monthly face-to-face or telephone behaviour support sessions combined with recommended supervised physical activity sessions to increase their physical activity goal to a maximum total of 27 MET hours/week.
    •Arm II: Patients receive general health education materials regarding nutrition and physical activity. Patients complete the Total Physical Activity Questionnaire (TPAQ) to assess exercise participation and undergo fitness testing periodically by the submaximal exercise test and Seniors' Fitness Test (SFT). Patients complete the SF-36, FACT-F, Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index (PSQI), Hospital Anxiety and Depression Scale (HADS), and Social Cognitive Determinants of Exercise Measure questionnaires periodically. Patients also complete a 30-day resource use diary and undergo a health economics analysis by the Work Productivity and Activity Impairment (WPAI) questionnaire. Blood samples are collected periodically for correlative studies and fasting glucose. Samples are analyzed for markers of insulin level, IGF-1, IGF-2, and IGFBP3, cytokine levels (i.e., IL-1β, IL-6, IL-2, IL-4, IL-8, IL-10, IL-12, TNF-α, IFN-γ, and GM-CSF), and C-reactive protein levels. During the 3 year intervention period, patients are followed every 6 months for 3 years and then annually for 4-10 years.
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    plh4gail said:

    I guess my point wasn't
    I guess my point wasn't taken.

    I see clearly...
    It's too bad those who were possibly the two biggest promoters of a healthy diet and lifestyle changes in the fight against cancer left the site rather than put up with the ______ they had to hear about Diet & Exercise.
    The irony is amazing...

    I'm certainly not knocking your contributions to the cause Pete, I think it's great all of the things you're trying.
    Whatever works/helps...
    -p
  • Minnesotagirl
    Minnesotagirl Member Posts: 141
    PhillieG said:

    I see clearly...
    It's too bad those who were possibly the two biggest promoters of a healthy diet and lifestyle changes in the fight against cancer left the site rather than put up with the ______ they had to hear about Diet & Exercise.
    The irony is amazing...

    I'm certainly not knocking your contributions to the cause Pete, I think it's great all of the things you're trying.
    Whatever works/helps...
    -p

    Yes, Yes, Yes
    Yes,
    I agree with you Phil on your last statement. I have been trying to follow many of the old threads (previous to my joining this board) for information on healthy diet and exercise. I have always wondered why people who are trying to help here on this board get jumped on and make others like myself reluctant to post sometimes...I didn't follow or post for about 3 weeks because of previous statements that really bothered me.

    I like to follow Pete's storyline...can't always understand it but I really see he is trying to make a difference for all of us. I appreciate his effort!

    I, for one, would like all people to feel comfortable here to comment on anything that they think may help another person...just like you said "whatever works/helps..."

    "Minnie"
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331 Member
    PhillieG said:

    I see clearly...
    It's too bad those who were possibly the two biggest promoters of a healthy diet and lifestyle changes in the fight against cancer left the site rather than put up with the ______ they had to hear about Diet & Exercise.
    The irony is amazing...

    I'm certainly not knocking your contributions to the cause Pete, I think it's great all of the things you're trying.
    Whatever works/helps...
    -p

    Pete I will always appreciate your info and efforts
    to convince this board and help us to maintain a healthy life after cancer, got all my support!
    Hugs my friend.
  • steved
    steved Member Posts: 834 Member
    shock-Healthy eating is good for you
    It is amazing how complex this topic really is when you see the range of reactions it can promote and just shows how hard it is to provide appropriate advice for people around health. None of us should be surprised eating well and doing exercise is good for our health- whether we have/ have had cancer or not. The difficulty is we are all individual and this advise needs to come with a health warning that will cause feelings of guilt and anxiety.

    We must all be allowed to find the right way to live our lives especially when that life may be limited in qauntity or quality. For some juicing and enbarking on marathons is the right thing while for others beers and burgers are the right thing.

    I'm personally a lifelong moderate- love some exercise, enjoy healthy food as well as slothing on the sofa with the wife drinking too much wine with a curry. Where ever you fall on the spectrum of all this we all have in common a desire to enjoy our lives so find what makes you happy and stick to it.

    steve
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    steved said:

    shock-Healthy eating is good for you
    It is amazing how complex this topic really is when you see the range of reactions it can promote and just shows how hard it is to provide appropriate advice for people around health. None of us should be surprised eating well and doing exercise is good for our health- whether we have/ have had cancer or not. The difficulty is we are all individual and this advise needs to come with a health warning that will cause feelings of guilt and anxiety.

    We must all be allowed to find the right way to live our lives especially when that life may be limited in qauntity or quality. For some juicing and enbarking on marathons is the right thing while for others beers and burgers are the right thing.

    I'm personally a lifelong moderate- love some exercise, enjoy healthy food as well as slothing on the sofa with the wife drinking too much wine with a curry. Where ever you fall on the spectrum of all this we all have in common a desire to enjoy our lives so find what makes you happy and stick to it.

    steve

    Next...
    We'll hear that smoking is bad for you and causes cancer...
  • tommycat
    tommycat Member Posts: 790 Member
    steved said:

    shock-Healthy eating is good for you
    It is amazing how complex this topic really is when you see the range of reactions it can promote and just shows how hard it is to provide appropriate advice for people around health. None of us should be surprised eating well and doing exercise is good for our health- whether we have/ have had cancer or not. The difficulty is we are all individual and this advise needs to come with a health warning that will cause feelings of guilt and anxiety.

    We must all be allowed to find the right way to live our lives especially when that life may be limited in qauntity or quality. For some juicing and enbarking on marathons is the right thing while for others beers and burgers are the right thing.

    I'm personally a lifelong moderate- love some exercise, enjoy healthy food as well as slothing on the sofa with the wife drinking too much wine with a curry. Where ever you fall on the spectrum of all this we all have in common a desire to enjoy our lives so find what makes you happy and stick to it.

    steve

    Spot on post
    Brilliant....Thank you Steved. I feel exactly the same way.
    Thanks~
  • plh4gail
    plh4gail Member Posts: 1,238 Member
    steved said:

    shock-Healthy eating is good for you
    It is amazing how complex this topic really is when you see the range of reactions it can promote and just shows how hard it is to provide appropriate advice for people around health. None of us should be surprised eating well and doing exercise is good for our health- whether we have/ have had cancer or not. The difficulty is we are all individual and this advise needs to come with a health warning that will cause feelings of guilt and anxiety.

    We must all be allowed to find the right way to live our lives especially when that life may be limited in qauntity or quality. For some juicing and enbarking on marathons is the right thing while for others beers and burgers are the right thing.

    I'm personally a lifelong moderate- love some exercise, enjoy healthy food as well as slothing on the sofa with the wife drinking too much wine with a curry. Where ever you fall on the spectrum of all this we all have in common a desire to enjoy our lives so find what makes you happy and stick to it.

    steve

    Thank you steved!

    Thank you steved!
  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425 Member
    plh4gail said:

    Thank you steved!

    Thank you steved!

    Phil I really miss those
    Phil I really miss those two....reading their posts really gave me inspiration, as do the other long time survivors.
  • maglets
    maglets Member Posts: 2,576 Member
    smokeyjoe said:

    Phil I really miss those
    Phil I really miss those two....reading their posts really gave me inspiration, as do the other long time survivors.

    surely
    surely we have a moral obligation to our family and friends to continue to be contributing members of the group despite and in spite of our cancer.

    I do eat very well and I do exercise but I never want to feel that I sacrifice my family on the altar of cancer. They support me and care for me with great devotion during times of surgery and chemo. I try to relieve them of this burden when I am not in care....by living a life as close to normal as possible and I also like to enjoy myself. Perhaps some people derive pure pleasure from different things....I am sure they do and we are all different....but Steve kicking back on the couch with some wine and a curry sounds like fun to me too

    maggie
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624 Member
    PhillieG said:

    Next...
    We'll hear that smoking is bad for you and causes cancer...

    LOL
    That's exactly what I thought when I saw this post. The cancer society told us something we all knew long ago. LOL.
    Winter Marie
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624 Member
    maglets said:

    surely
    surely we have a moral obligation to our family and friends to continue to be contributing members of the group despite and in spite of our cancer.

    I do eat very well and I do exercise but I never want to feel that I sacrifice my family on the altar of cancer. They support me and care for me with great devotion during times of surgery and chemo. I try to relieve them of this burden when I am not in care....by living a life as close to normal as possible and I also like to enjoy myself. Perhaps some people derive pure pleasure from different things....I am sure they do and we are all different....but Steve kicking back on the couch with some wine and a curry sounds like fun to me too

    maggie

    Maggie
    You said it so well!!!
    Winter Marie