Tofu

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  • carolenk
    carolenk Member Posts: 907 Member
    culka said:

    Claudia
    Don't even mention that S-word. Last weekend about foot, yesterday few inches, today it is continue. I hope everybody like my measurement. I'm strictly metric system girl.

    What is my plan for this year? Who caress about cancer. A few years ago I read on raw food web about Anastasia, recluse from Siberia and now, time is right, I'm reading books about her. Author is Vladimir Megre, all series have 9 of them.
    Main idea: every family should have family domain, size 1 hectare, which is about 2.5 acres. That size of property is enough to make you efficient and you can make your own garden of Eden. Till now I did clearly understand why I bought acreage less then a year after cancer news. Now I know, to build our own domain and trust me we will.
    Check your library, printed version I have from there and e-book is in laptop.

    About your liver. Epsom salt and liver flush is my remedy. Even coffee enemas working like liver flush. Comparing picture on web with my own experience, it is, I saw that.

    For everybody:
    I'm so sad about Diane news and so scare for myself. Bet like everybody else. Wish everybody with recurrence to be back in NED soon.
    About The China study and meat consumption. Meat is still meat, no matter if it is organic or with other label. Our body needs enzyme to digest it and we need same enzymes to identify cancer cells for our immune system. And if Mr. Campbell said no more than 10% animal product, why we even think about 80% plant base and 20% meat (should be animal base, include milk, eggs....). Just simply don't go over 10% and you will be on safe side.
    In rural China people eat about 61 grams of protein from any source and from this number only 10% is from animal base . Whole 6 grams of meat proteins. I'm not an expert, but this should be enough even for B12.

    About soy
    I don't think soy is a problem if you don't go crazy with it. I think there may be extra benefits derived from fermented soy like miso or tempeh--tofu isn't fermented. I had a vegetarian friend who ate so much soy I swear he smelled like tofu.

    The thinking is that the phytoestrogens in soy selectively down regulate the estrogen receptors so there wouldn't be a problem with estrogen receptor + cancers. I don't know if soy is contraindicated with Tamoxifen or aromatase inhibitors.

    Caan BJ, Natarajan L, Parker BA, et al. Soy Food Consumption and Breast Cancer Prognosis. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. Published ahead of print Feb 25, 2011.
  • jazzy1
    jazzy1 Member Posts: 1,379
    Tethys41 said:

    Protein and B12
    Jan,
    I can ask for more specific informatino regarding the scientific reasoning behind eating meat as a cancer survivor. One thing I'm quite sure weighs in has to do with B12. I just finished a book on autoimmune diseases, and, according to the authors, all autoimmune can be traced to vitamin B12 deficiency, which is a result of improper digestion of proteins and leads to the breakdown of various pathways in our bodies. One pathway that is affected s the body's ability to process vitamin D. Depending on which pathways are affected, determines the type of autoimmune the patient ends up with. The author cites the high occurrance of heart disease and diabetes among the vegetarian populations in India. This breakdown also results in elevated homocystines, which leads to these diseases. I spoke to the author of the book on the phone last week, and she says they are coming out with an updated version, as their rearch has revealed a links between the inability to properly digest protein and some types of cancer.
    I do know that my naturopath preaches eating a high protein diet and low carbohydrates. I recently attended a talk given by a doctor from Denver who blames carbs on all of our serious diseases. I might have had difficutly with his position had I not recently read another book that explains the things in our lifestyle that lead to chronic disease. The author of this book tells us that our current environment is very bastardized as compared to the environment of our ancestors. In pre-historic times, carbohydrates were only available to humans in the summer months. Through winter, they ate mostly protein. So our bodies evolved to survive a feast and famine cycle every year. Now that carbs are available to us year round, and our bodies are not adapted to this, we develop serious illnesses, including cancer.
    The books: "Autoimmune:The Cause and the Cure" by Annesse Brockley and Kristin Urdiales
    "Lights Out" by T.S. Wiley
    Both of thes books are filled with references that support the authors' position. The autoimmune book lines out a diet to resolve the inability to digest protein. I tried it and have to say, for me, it worked swimningly.
    Kate

    China Study & B12
    B12 helps formation of red blood cells and maintaining of central nervous system. Vitamin found in --
    . Fish
    . Poultry
    . Meat
    . Dairy

    RDA of B12 per day is 2.4 mcg (ex; polluck 3.68, Cod 1.05, salmon 3.05, etc.)

    Per China Study - pg 230-232 (parts quoted from the book)
    Plant foods have dramatically more antioxidants, fiber and minerals than animal foods. In fact, animal foods are almost completely devoid of several of these nutrients. Animal foods,m on other hand, have much more cholesterol and fat. They have slightly more protein than plant foods, along with more B12 and Vit D, although the vit D is largely due to artificial fortification from milk. Since nutrients are primarily responsible for the healthful effects of foods and because of these major differences in nutrient composition between animal and plant based foods, isn't it therefore, reasonable to assume that we should expect to see distinctly different effects on our bodies depending on which variety of foods we consume?

    By definition, for a food chemical to be an essential nutrient, it must meet two requirements:

    . the chemical is necessary for healthy human functioning
    . the chemical must be something our bodies cannot make on their own, and therefore, must be obtained from an outside source.

    One example of a chemical that is not essential is cholesterol, a component of animal-based food that is nonexistent in plant based food. While cholesterol is essential for health, our bodies can make all that we require; so we do not need to consume any in food. Therefore, not an essential nutrient.

    There are four nutrients which animal based foods have that plant based foods, for the most part, do not ---

    cholesterol
    Vit A
    Vit D
    B12

    Three are non-essential nutrients. Cholesterol (discussed above) is made by our bodies naturally. Vit A can be readily made by our bodies from beta-carotene and vit D can be readily made by our bodies simply by exposing our skin to about 15 minutes of sunshine each day. Both of these vitamins are toxic.

    Vit B12 is more problematic. B12 is made by microorganisms found in the soil and by microorganisms in the intestines of animals, including our own. The amount made in our intestines is not adequately absorbed, so it is recomme3nded that we consume B12 in food. Research has convincingly shown that plants grown in healthy soil that has a good concentration of Vit B12 will readily absorb this nutrient. However, plants grown in "lifeless" soil (non-0rganic) may be deficient in Vib B12. In the US, most of our agriculture takes place on relatively lifeless soil, decimated from years of unnatural pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer use. Plants grown in this soil and sold in our grocery stores lack B12. In addition, we live in such a sanitized world that we rarely come into direct contact with the soil-borne microorganisms that product B12. At one point in our history, we got B12 from vegetables that hadn't been scoured of all soil. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that modern Americans who eat highly cleansed plant products and no animal products are unlikely to get enough vit B12.

    If you do not eat any animal products for three years or more, or are pregnant or breastfeeding, you should consider taking a small B12 supplement on occasion, or going to the doc annually to check your blood levels of b12 and homocysteine. Likewise, if you never get sunshine exposure, especially during the winter months, you might want to take a Vit D supplement.

    I call these supplements "separation from nature pills" because a health y diet of fresh, organic plant-based foods grown in rich soil and a lifestyle that regularly takes you outdoors is the best answer to these issues. Returning to our natural way of life, in the small way provides innumerable other benefits as well.

    --------------------------------

    Tethys, What I'm reading, if I stick with my normal fish (mainly Wild fish such as Salmon) a few times per week, you're telling me this will increase my B12...per the RDA? I'm not a VEGAN as still eat fish and eggs on occasion.

    Trying to wrap my arms around all this insight...very interesting if nothing else!!

    Hugs,
    Jan
  • jazzy1
    jazzy1 Member Posts: 1,379
    carolenk said:

    About soy
    I don't think soy is a problem if you don't go crazy with it. I think there may be extra benefits derived from fermented soy like miso or tempeh--tofu isn't fermented. I had a vegetarian friend who ate so much soy I swear he smelled like tofu.

    The thinking is that the phytoestrogens in soy selectively down regulate the estrogen receptors so there wouldn't be a problem with estrogen receptor + cancers. I don't know if soy is contraindicated with Tamoxifen or aromatase inhibitors.

    Caan BJ, Natarajan L, Parker BA, et al. Soy Food Consumption and Breast Cancer Prognosis. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. Published ahead of print Feb 25, 2011.

    Carol
    My nutritionist who's a breast cancer survivor, suggested I use very little soy, but when I do use it get it in "whole soy foods", not an "isolate" soy which is refined and processed. There are still too many unknowns about soy, so best to be safe vs. sorry.

    I was on a powder vitamin regime for some 8 years. Didn't realize until I was diagnosed with cancer, but "isolate" soy isn't good for us and this Company's product line was filled with this ingredient. Now I know.... To this day, wondering if it had a factor in my diagnosis of cancer....will always be a mystery to me.

    Hugs,
    Jan
  • Tethys41
    Tethys41 Member Posts: 1,382 Member
    jazzy1 said:

    China Study & B12
    B12 helps formation of red blood cells and maintaining of central nervous system. Vitamin found in --
    . Fish
    . Poultry
    . Meat
    . Dairy

    RDA of B12 per day is 2.4 mcg (ex; polluck 3.68, Cod 1.05, salmon 3.05, etc.)

    Per China Study - pg 230-232 (parts quoted from the book)
    Plant foods have dramatically more antioxidants, fiber and minerals than animal foods. In fact, animal foods are almost completely devoid of several of these nutrients. Animal foods,m on other hand, have much more cholesterol and fat. They have slightly more protein than plant foods, along with more B12 and Vit D, although the vit D is largely due to artificial fortification from milk. Since nutrients are primarily responsible for the healthful effects of foods and because of these major differences in nutrient composition between animal and plant based foods, isn't it therefore, reasonable to assume that we should expect to see distinctly different effects on our bodies depending on which variety of foods we consume?

    By definition, for a food chemical to be an essential nutrient, it must meet two requirements:

    . the chemical is necessary for healthy human functioning
    . the chemical must be something our bodies cannot make on their own, and therefore, must be obtained from an outside source.

    One example of a chemical that is not essential is cholesterol, a component of animal-based food that is nonexistent in plant based food. While cholesterol is essential for health, our bodies can make all that we require; so we do not need to consume any in food. Therefore, not an essential nutrient.

    There are four nutrients which animal based foods have that plant based foods, for the most part, do not ---

    cholesterol
    Vit A
    Vit D
    B12

    Three are non-essential nutrients. Cholesterol (discussed above) is made by our bodies naturally. Vit A can be readily made by our bodies from beta-carotene and vit D can be readily made by our bodies simply by exposing our skin to about 15 minutes of sunshine each day. Both of these vitamins are toxic.

    Vit B12 is more problematic. B12 is made by microorganisms found in the soil and by microorganisms in the intestines of animals, including our own. The amount made in our intestines is not adequately absorbed, so it is recomme3nded that we consume B12 in food. Research has convincingly shown that plants grown in healthy soil that has a good concentration of Vit B12 will readily absorb this nutrient. However, plants grown in "lifeless" soil (non-0rganic) may be deficient in Vib B12. In the US, most of our agriculture takes place on relatively lifeless soil, decimated from years of unnatural pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer use. Plants grown in this soil and sold in our grocery stores lack B12. In addition, we live in such a sanitized world that we rarely come into direct contact with the soil-borne microorganisms that product B12. At one point in our history, we got B12 from vegetables that hadn't been scoured of all soil. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that modern Americans who eat highly cleansed plant products and no animal products are unlikely to get enough vit B12.

    If you do not eat any animal products for three years or more, or are pregnant or breastfeeding, you should consider taking a small B12 supplement on occasion, or going to the doc annually to check your blood levels of b12 and homocysteine. Likewise, if you never get sunshine exposure, especially during the winter months, you might want to take a Vit D supplement.

    I call these supplements "separation from nature pills" because a health y diet of fresh, organic plant-based foods grown in rich soil and a lifestyle that regularly takes you outdoors is the best answer to these issues. Returning to our natural way of life, in the small way provides innumerable other benefits as well.

    --------------------------------

    Tethys, What I'm reading, if I stick with my normal fish (mainly Wild fish such as Salmon) a few times per week, you're telling me this will increase my B12...per the RDA? I'm not a VEGAN as still eat fish and eggs on occasion.

    Trying to wrap my arms around all this insight...very interesting if nothing else!!

    Hugs,
    Jan

    Fish and Eggs
    Jan,
    Yes, the fish and eggs should give you adequate vitamin B12 to help keep you healthy. It might be interesting to see if you don't eat any animal protein for a few days, do you feel a bit better after you eat it? This is an indication that you need it. My naturopath says that the vegetarian patients who she convinces to include eggs in their diets a few days a week, feel good after eating the eggs and not as good after a few days. Vitamin B12, I have learned, is so essential to a whole slew of processes in our bodies. The book I mentioned before, "Autoimmune: The Cause and The Cure" presents research that indicates the inability to digest proteins properly leads to vitamin B12 deficiency, which leads to vitamin D deficiency, elevated homocystines, and a whole breakdown of various systems in our bodies, all linked to vitamin B12 deficiency. The author believes the reason women are more prone to autoimmune than men is because of the B12 deficiency that occurs during preganacy. She also believes that vegetarianism, due to the lack of B12, also predisposes people to autoimmune.
    I'm actually working with my naturopath and the author of the book to get to the bottom of supplemental vitamin D. The author believes it is detrimental, my naturopath believes it is essential. So, the jury is out, but the questions and research continues. Right now, I'm still taking mine. The downfall to getting all of our vitamin D from sunlight is that if we bathe within 72 hours of receiving the sunlight, we interrupt the process that incorporated the vitamin D into our system. That is why my naturopath says that our daily wash should be just "pits and parts" and every few days we should have a full blown bath.
  • Tethys41
    Tethys41 Member Posts: 1,382 Member
    bea-mil said:

    What I was trying to say is
    What I was trying to say is that from anatomy point of view there is no such thing like omnivore, through the evolution though some of the carnivores became so called omnivores.

    The bear is one of the perfect examples. They, like other carnivores can trace their pedigree back to the miacids, small, snouted, weasel-like animals that lived 50 million years ago. After a period of almost exclusively eating meat, they became omnivores for reasons that are yet to be explained. The giant panda departed the furthest from a strictly carnivorous diet, and until recently they were thought to be strict vegetarians...I’m not going to dispute what happen through the evolution... and most importantly if the evolution went in a good direction. You were reaching deep to our ancestors for some prove (to eat meat or not to eat) and I had followed you.

    I simply think that since we are not carnivores by nature...maybe we shouldn’t include any meat in our diet? There must be something wrong that we- humans are doing since we are the most sick in the whole animal world.

    I know
    I know that we could debate the diet thing to death, and probably not come to any agreement. I would encourage you to read the book I mentioned "Lights Out" by T.S. Wiley. It is entirely based on research that has been conducted at the National Institute of Health and her input as a journalist and background in anthropology. It contains some amazing insights into artificial light, sleep, hormones, neurotransmitters, diet, and exercise.
    I look at our more recent human history and accept that cancer is a modern disease. Our grandparents rarely had to deal with this disease, and they ate plenty of animal protein and even lard. Our world is different now, with artificial fats, commercially raised meats and veggies, and many new toxins. When I look at this from a paleontological perspective (what I studied in grad school), it makes complete sense to me. When there is a change in an organism's environment, it is the individuals with the greater genetic variablility that survive and the ones with less are less adapted to their environment and are at risk of death. Humans have affected the global environment radically in the last century, and many species are genetically not able to adjust to changes this rapid. When you look at the number of extinctions in the last 100 years, this indicates that the changes humans are making to the environment are as fast as only the most catastrophic events in the Earth's history.
    Doctors blame the genes in people who get cancer, for not performing properly. I see it differently. I would have been perfectly healthy if I'd lived 100 years earlier. Those same genes that would have thrived 100 years ago, however, are not well adapted to today's environment. Therefore, natural selection is selecting against me. It's not personal, it's nature. There are plenty of folks wandering around out there being exposed to toxins and eating non-nutritious and toxic food, and they are fine. They have the genes that allow them to live like that. I don't. So, I work as hard as I can to duplicate the lifestyle of my grandparents.
  • jazzy1
    jazzy1 Member Posts: 1,379
    Tethys41 said:

    Fish and Eggs
    Jan,
    Yes, the fish and eggs should give you adequate vitamin B12 to help keep you healthy. It might be interesting to see if you don't eat any animal protein for a few days, do you feel a bit better after you eat it? This is an indication that you need it. My naturopath says that the vegetarian patients who she convinces to include eggs in their diets a few days a week, feel good after eating the eggs and not as good after a few days. Vitamin B12, I have learned, is so essential to a whole slew of processes in our bodies. The book I mentioned before, "Autoimmune: The Cause and The Cure" presents research that indicates the inability to digest proteins properly leads to vitamin B12 deficiency, which leads to vitamin D deficiency, elevated homocystines, and a whole breakdown of various systems in our bodies, all linked to vitamin B12 deficiency. The author believes the reason women are more prone to autoimmune than men is because of the B12 deficiency that occurs during preganacy. She also believes that vegetarianism, due to the lack of B12, also predisposes people to autoimmune.
    I'm actually working with my naturopath and the author of the book to get to the bottom of supplemental vitamin D. The author believes it is detrimental, my naturopath believes it is essential. So, the jury is out, but the questions and research continues. Right now, I'm still taking mine. The downfall to getting all of our vitamin D from sunlight is that if we bathe within 72 hours of receiving the sunlight, we interrupt the process that incorporated the vitamin D into our system. That is why my naturopath says that our daily wash should be just "pits and parts" and every few days we should have a full blown bath.

    Tethys
    One thing about eggs, have B12 and vit D...see below listing with 2 eggs as serving size....

    Potassium - 168 mg
    Phosphorus - 207 mg
    Calcium - 87 mg
    Magnesium - 15 mg
    Iron - 1.46 mg
    Sodium - 342 mg
    Manganese - 0.027 mg
    Zinc - 1.22 mg
    Copper - 0.017 mg
    Selenium - 27.4 mcg
    Vitamin C - 0.2 mg
    Vitamin B1 (thiamine) - 0.063 mg
    Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) - 0.533 mg
    Niacin - 0.096 mg
    Pantothenic Acid - 1.229 mg
    Vitamin B6 - 0.144 mg
    Folate - 37 mcg
    Vitamin B12 - 0.94 mcg*****
    Vitamin A - 642 IU
    Vitamin E - 1.33 mg
    Vitamin K - 4.9 mcg
    Vitamin D - 59 IU*****
    Contains some other vitamins in small amounts.

    You posted "vegetarian patients who she convinces to include eggs in their diets a few days a week, feel good after eating the eggs and NOT AS GOOD AFTER A FEW DAYS...?? Is this what you wished to convey...feel worse later?

    You've convinced me to purchase the Autoimmune book as I do have osteoarthritis and know this will be of great help for my aches and pains...more side affects from my chemo and external radiation.

    I'm a huge advocate for Vitamin D...check out the link www.grassroots.com...wonderful information. We simply cannot get enough of this vitamin during winter months, and if you look at ratings for less sunshine in the northern US population....more disease. Let me know what you find during your journey with this new research. Never read or heard about bathing within 72 hrs. after being in sunlight...where was this published?

    You ask how I feel with only vegies for a few days, then add fish or eggs? Yes I do feel a bit sluggish, in fact, my body does crave some type of protein to keep my energy level up, even with my organic whey twice per day.

    One interesting side note, my mother in law who's 87 yrs eats whatever falls before her...meat, fish, bologna, butter, eggs, mush, etc, etc, Her doc does blood work on her every month and her B12 has been very low for a long time. Doc put her on a monthly B12 shot which seems to be helping and without it, she's sluggish, showing low iron. Interesting as she eats so much fish, poultry, meat and dairy. Note, she does take quite a few meds for everything from high blood pressure to cholesterol....thinking these meds with all the side affects challenge her proper daily vitamin levels.

    Hugs,
    Jan
  • Tethys41
    Tethys41 Member Posts: 1,382 Member
    jazzy1 said:

    Tethys
    One thing about eggs, have B12 and vit D...see below listing with 2 eggs as serving size....

    Potassium - 168 mg
    Phosphorus - 207 mg
    Calcium - 87 mg
    Magnesium - 15 mg
    Iron - 1.46 mg
    Sodium - 342 mg
    Manganese - 0.027 mg
    Zinc - 1.22 mg
    Copper - 0.017 mg
    Selenium - 27.4 mcg
    Vitamin C - 0.2 mg
    Vitamin B1 (thiamine) - 0.063 mg
    Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) - 0.533 mg
    Niacin - 0.096 mg
    Pantothenic Acid - 1.229 mg
    Vitamin B6 - 0.144 mg
    Folate - 37 mcg
    Vitamin B12 - 0.94 mcg*****
    Vitamin A - 642 IU
    Vitamin E - 1.33 mg
    Vitamin K - 4.9 mcg
    Vitamin D - 59 IU*****
    Contains some other vitamins in small amounts.

    You posted "vegetarian patients who she convinces to include eggs in their diets a few days a week, feel good after eating the eggs and NOT AS GOOD AFTER A FEW DAYS...?? Is this what you wished to convey...feel worse later?

    You've convinced me to purchase the Autoimmune book as I do have osteoarthritis and know this will be of great help for my aches and pains...more side affects from my chemo and external radiation.

    I'm a huge advocate for Vitamin D...check out the link www.grassroots.com...wonderful information. We simply cannot get enough of this vitamin during winter months, and if you look at ratings for less sunshine in the northern US population....more disease. Let me know what you find during your journey with this new research. Never read or heard about bathing within 72 hrs. after being in sunlight...where was this published?

    You ask how I feel with only vegies for a few days, then add fish or eggs? Yes I do feel a bit sluggish, in fact, my body does crave some type of protein to keep my energy level up, even with my organic whey twice per day.

    One interesting side note, my mother in law who's 87 yrs eats whatever falls before her...meat, fish, bologna, butter, eggs, mush, etc, etc, Her doc does blood work on her every month and her B12 has been very low for a long time. Doc put her on a monthly B12 shot which seems to be helping and without it, she's sluggish, showing low iron. Interesting as she eats so much fish, poultry, meat and dairy. Note, she does take quite a few meds for everything from high blood pressure to cholesterol....thinking these meds with all the side affects challenge her proper daily vitamin levels.

    Hugs,
    Jan

    Sluggish
    Jan,
    Yes that is what I was eluding to. If you eat animal protein only occasionally, you may find you feel better after eating it and not as good after not eating it for a few days. It is possible, according to the author of the autoimmune book that your gandmother's medications are interfering with her gut and therefore her ability to digest protein and extract vitamin B12.
    I will have to ask my naturopath about the 72 hours not bathing issue. She presented that to a group of us who went on a 5 day retreat last fall for women thriving with cancer.
    Kate
  • RoseyR
    RoseyR Member Posts: 471 Member
    Tethys41 said:

    Fish and Eggs
    Jan,
    Yes, the fish and eggs should give you adequate vitamin B12 to help keep you healthy. It might be interesting to see if you don't eat any animal protein for a few days, do you feel a bit better after you eat it? This is an indication that you need it. My naturopath says that the vegetarian patients who she convinces to include eggs in their diets a few days a week, feel good after eating the eggs and not as good after a few days. Vitamin B12, I have learned, is so essential to a whole slew of processes in our bodies. The book I mentioned before, "Autoimmune: The Cause and The Cure" presents research that indicates the inability to digest proteins properly leads to vitamin B12 deficiency, which leads to vitamin D deficiency, elevated homocystines, and a whole breakdown of various systems in our bodies, all linked to vitamin B12 deficiency. The author believes the reason women are more prone to autoimmune than men is because of the B12 deficiency that occurs during preganacy. She also believes that vegetarianism, due to the lack of B12, also predisposes people to autoimmune.
    I'm actually working with my naturopath and the author of the book to get to the bottom of supplemental vitamin D. The author believes it is detrimental, my naturopath believes it is essential. So, the jury is out, but the questions and research continues. Right now, I'm still taking mine. The downfall to getting all of our vitamin D from sunlight is that if we bathe within 72 hours of receiving the sunlight, we interrupt the process that incorporated the vitamin D into our system. That is why my naturopath says that our daily wash should be just "pits and parts" and every few days we should have a full blown bath.

    Fascinating, but ...

    Thanks again for riveting information, Tethys.

    I agree with your naturopath that we bathe far too often in this nation ("cleanliness is next to Godliness" is an old mantra that Europeans laugh at) and although I showered most of my adult life every day or every OTHER day--and shampooed nearly that often--it's curoius how, instinctively, after starting chemo I did instead what your naturopath recommends. I had also read, of course, how toxic our flouridated showers are--and the steam from them that we inhale--and didn't want to subject my body to it nearly as often.

    The ONLY question I have re autoimmune disease among vegan cultures is this one: If India has a high rate of diabetes, it has--according to Dr. D Servan Screiber--a far lower incidence of cancer and Alzheimer's, which he attributes, correctly or not, to the vast intake of turmeric/curcumin.

    Would be curious to hear this author's response to his claims.

    Best,
    Rosey
  • RoseyR
    RoseyR Member Posts: 471 Member
    jazzy1 said:

    Carol
    My nutritionist who's a breast cancer survivor, suggested I use very little soy, but when I do use it get it in "whole soy foods", not an "isolate" soy which is refined and processed. There are still too many unknowns about soy, so best to be safe vs. sorry.

    I was on a powder vitamin regime for some 8 years. Didn't realize until I was diagnosed with cancer, but "isolate" soy isn't good for us and this Company's product line was filled with this ingredient. Now I know.... To this day, wondering if it had a factor in my diagnosis of cancer....will always be a mystery to me.

    Hugs,
    Jan

    The Soy Conundrum

    Jazzy,

    Our MMMT tumors, according to my onc, are "not usually" estrogen sensitive.
    That suggests that each tumor has its own traits--another reason we all need to demand tumor assays and more specifity from our pathology reports.

    In the meantime, a few studies cited by a newsletter I subscribe to painted so dismal a picture of "processed soy products" that I will never go near the following again: ANY soy powder, ANY tofu (granted "organic" is a bit safer than not), any "soy isolate" in protein bars--all of which are apparently contaminated with excess lead and other toxic elements.
    Fortunately, I rarely ate any of the preceding.

    The only soy that's safe, from what I've read, are forms that are fermented: tempeh and seitan, miso soup. Edamame is likely safe as well.

    On the other hand, I keep seeing how beneficial "genestein" is and I assume that's a component of soy. Apparently genestein and phytoestrogens help to DETOXIFY natural estrogen and so are safe and even beneficial for hormonally sensitive cancers.

    Or ARE they? I see conflicting information. Could someone who has studied THIS issue (genestein and phytoestrogens) provide help here? Should I or should I NOT be eating yams and blueberries because they contain pytoestrogens? Have been gorging on blueberries at breakfast for a year now: half a cup each morning in oatmeal.

    Thanks,
    R.
  • RoseyR
    RoseyR Member Posts: 471 Member
    RoseyR said:

    Fascinating, but ...

    Thanks again for riveting information, Tethys.

    I agree with your naturopath that we bathe far too often in this nation ("cleanliness is next to Godliness" is an old mantra that Europeans laugh at) and although I showered most of my adult life every day or every OTHER day--and shampooed nearly that often--it's curoius how, instinctively, after starting chemo I did instead what your naturopath recommends. I had also read, of course, how toxic our flouridated showers are--and the steam from them that we inhale--and didn't want to subject my body to it nearly as often.

    The ONLY question I have re autoimmune disease among vegan cultures is this one: If India has a high rate of diabetes, it has--according to Dr. D Servan Screiber--a far lower incidence of cancer and Alzheimer's, which he attributes, correctly or not, to the vast intake of turmeric/curcumin.

    Would be curious to hear this author's response to his claims.

    Best,
    Rosey

    And what about B-12 in CHILDLESS women?

    Another question I have about this fascinating theory (that even cancer may be an autoimmune disease) is this: If its origin is vested in Vitamin B-12 deficiency that in turn is prompted by pregancy (hence more autoimmune disease in women than men), what do we do with the fact that uterine cancer--and even breast, for that matter--occur in highest rates among women who have NOT borne children? "Nulliparity" again and again shows up as a status strongly associated with rates of gynecological cancers.

    In raising this question, I'm hardly dismissing the possible link between B-12 deficiency and autoimmune disease. Just the association with pregnancy.

    And by the way: My OWN B-12 status as a childless woman was about 320 when at my own insistence, I had a neurologist test it before starting chemo. (Had read that neuropathy is more likely when you start chemo with low B-12 levels.) Normal in an adult is 200-800 but even my integrative doctor said, "You do NOT want to start chemo at less than 600." (Did my renowned Cancer Treatment Center ever test my B-12 levels before rushing to administer chemo? Of course not!)

    Finally: I can't help wonder if low B-12 status (which runs in my family) also explains the MS-like symptoms I eperienced in my early thirties (total loss of sight in one eye--regained, thankfully, in about six weeks) and an episode involving spasms in my upper leg ten years ago. (The MRI was, according to one neurologist, "borderline" i suggesting it could be MS--a notoriously hard disease to diagnose. I resolved these symptoms, which I endured for a few months, believe it or not, with eight capsules of ginger a day; it took just a few days. And thankfully, I've been incredibly "healthy" most of my life, seldom eve catching many colds or flus.

    But I suspect you're on to something here, Tethys.

    I will look into this book.

    Best,
    Rosey
  • Tethys41
    Tethys41 Member Posts: 1,382 Member
    RoseyR said:

    And what about B-12 in CHILDLESS women?

    Another question I have about this fascinating theory (that even cancer may be an autoimmune disease) is this: If its origin is vested in Vitamin B-12 deficiency that in turn is prompted by pregancy (hence more autoimmune disease in women than men), what do we do with the fact that uterine cancer--and even breast, for that matter--occur in highest rates among women who have NOT borne children? "Nulliparity" again and again shows up as a status strongly associated with rates of gynecological cancers.

    In raising this question, I'm hardly dismissing the possible link between B-12 deficiency and autoimmune disease. Just the association with pregnancy.

    And by the way: My OWN B-12 status as a childless woman was about 320 when at my own insistence, I had a neurologist test it before starting chemo. (Had read that neuropathy is more likely when you start chemo with low B-12 levels.) Normal in an adult is 200-800 but even my integrative doctor said, "You do NOT want to start chemo at less than 600." (Did my renowned Cancer Treatment Center ever test my B-12 levels before rushing to administer chemo? Of course not!)

    Finally: I can't help wonder if low B-12 status (which runs in my family) also explains the MS-like symptoms I eperienced in my early thirties (total loss of sight in one eye--regained, thankfully, in about six weeks) and an episode involving spasms in my upper leg ten years ago. (The MRI was, according to one neurologist, "borderline" i suggesting it could be MS--a notoriously hard disease to diagnose. I resolved these symptoms, which I endured for a few months, believe it or not, with eight capsules of ginger a day; it took just a few days. And thankfully, I've been incredibly "healthy" most of my life, seldom eve catching many colds or flus.

    But I suspect you're on to something here, Tethys.

    I will look into this book.

    Best,
    Rosey

    MS
    The MS would clearly be linked to the author's theory, as MS is an autoimmune condition. With regard to your observation that certain cancers are more prevelant in childless women; it's true that one would think that a childless woman would not have had the B12 deficiency experienced with pregnancy and should therefore be less prone. I can't answer that directly, but I do think it is difficult to put a finger on one specific variable that leads to cancer for all of us. I think cancer can result from a variety of issues, just as I cited in another post that genetically I am predisposed due to stress and inflammation, not to mention the BRCA1 mutation. So, it is possible that the childless women are more prone through a different pathway than those who have children.
  • Fayard
    Fayard Member Posts: 438 Member
    jazzy1 said:

    Soy
    I've got a similar cancer which is just as aggressive.....MMMT. My nutritionist, plus integrative doc suggested only 2 servings of whole soy in food per day. Note, avoid any soy listed with "isolates"...not good at all. The nutritionist who's a breast cancer survivor, recommended watching the soy I add to my diet, as the jury is still out on how soy affects one, especially with hormone type cancers.

    One question to you experts on food preparation, what type of "sauce" do you use with any of your vegie saute dishes?

    Jill, proud to read about your upcoming 4-year mark....whatever you're doing, keep it up. Love reading your posts.

    Hugs,
    Jan

    Almond butter
    I make a sauce with fresh almond butter, coconut aminos (instead of soy sauce), water, garlic, turmeric, salt and pepper.

    I pour it on sauteed tofu with onions, string beans, and bell peppers.
    Even my husband likes it.

    However, I try to stay away from tofu as much as I can.
    I eat it probably 1 to 2 times per month.

    Felicitaciones to both of you for reaching almost 4 years!
  • Fayard
    Fayard Member Posts: 438 Member
    Tethys41 said:

    Vegetarian Diet
    I know I am an outsider to this board, but I look in from time to time. Just felt compelled to share some information about diet that I have obtained from my naturopath. She recommends a Paleo diet. I know this is controversial and many sources, The China Study included, would beg to differ. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the China Study appears to be based on a diet consisting of commercially raised meats and extrapolates many assumptions from the evils of milk to the evils of meat.
    My naturopath researches issues to death before recommending them to her patients. She is an ovarian cancer survivor who still has a tumor living on her liver. Although she was initially diagnosed as stage IV ovarian cancer 20 years ago, she declined surgery and treatment due to the poor outcome the doctors were giving her. So she has found a way to make the bulk of her cancer retreat and to keep it inactive through diet and lifestyle. She can tell if something she is doing is detrimental because her CA-125 goes up. If she stops it, it goes down. She adopted the Paleo diet over a year ago and her CA-125 is lower than it has ever been.
    If that were not proof enough that meat is not the feeder of cancer we've been taught to believe, consider this. Her blood type O cancer survivors who eat a vegetarian diet almost all have recurrances if they don't eat some meat. Jill, I think the 80% vegetarian diet is less dangerous because I interpret that to mean you eat meat 20% of the time?
    I met up with a woman who lived in a commune that was heavily into a raw vegan diet. She was excommunicated from the commune because she developed ovarian cancer. She's beening dealing with it for 2 1/2 year and has not acheived remission, but in the meantime, almost sll of the other members of the commune either have cancer or have died. This is pretty strong evidence that eating only vegetables does not keep you healthy.
    My naturopath went to the Block Center a few months ago, to visit one of her patients and to shadow Dr. Block for a few days. Many conversations and much exchenge of information occurred. There was a large naturpathic conference last weekend in Phoenix. Dr. Block was there and announced that the diet he will be incorporating into his clinic is moving away from a vegetarian one and more towards Paleo.
    For clarification, Type A blood people should eat little to no red meat, whereas red meat is okay for blood type O people who do not have elevated iron levels. Eating meat does not mean going to your local grocer and picking up the hormone and antibiotic laced meats they sell. It means finding a source of organic, cleanly raised meats and wild caught fish. Cleanly raised meats means grass fed AND grass finished. It may take some looking, but that stuff is out there.

    Thank you!
    Very interesting input.
    I do eat mostly plant based food; however, I do also eat wild fish and shrimp, fish 1 to 2 times per week, and shrimp twice a month.

    Thank you!