Does anything we do make a difference?

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Comments

  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member
    John23 said:

    Notations from the peanut gallery -

    Re:
    "The difference is that 40-years ago, the average life expectancy
    of a colorectal patients was just SEVEN MONTHS.....now through
    treatments and improved surgery, we are seeing colorectal
    patients EXTEND out to TEN YEARS and more..."


    There was a Scandinavian study some years back, that summed it
    up very nicely: People aren't living longer with cancer, they are
    just being diagnosed earlier.

    Being diagnosed with colon cancer when it's in it's later stages,
    with perhaps months to live, is not any better than being diagnosed
    earlier and having years to live. We know about it sooner, and
    have more time to worry about it, ehh? Maybe that's a good thing?

    Re:
    "as Blake said, there are "diseases within the disease." For our
    cancer, we've got good ol' fashioned Adeocarcinoma and then there
    is Signet Ring Cell and Lynch Syndrome, which are very agressive
    and of hereditary nature. "


    The industry and it's brainy teams love to obfuscate the facts.

    A cancer cell begins life, and remains alive, by the fermentation
    process. It is the most basic of life support forms. It's method
    of life support does not change over it's life, it remains using
    glucose for fermentation, and ejects lactic acid as waste. The
    lactic acid is converted into glucose by the liver, and helps support
    those same cancer cells.

    What any life form uses for it's basic life support is what should
    be of the main concern. Trying to kill that life form by attacking
    other elements of that life form will work, but the list can be endless
    with new elements formed in response to an attack on it's life.

    Being informed that there are hundreds of "strains" and "disease types"
    of the basic cancer cell only confuses the issue and makes the
    problem appear to be more complicated than it actually is.

    Sure, the cancer cell can be killed by attacking a certain enzyme,
    but the basic reason for it's mere existence is not being addressed.
    That cell will live on, just as it had begun living.

    Remember that old saying?

    "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullship"

    Corporate obfuscation at it's finest.

    Knowing the basics often leads to answers when problems arise.

    Diluting those basics with confusing themes and explanations
    only leads to more confusion and time wasted.

    Of course, when we get paid for our time to solve a problem,
    why wouldn't we want to make things sound confusing?

    (just some idle thoughts from a rambling mind)

    May we see great health for all,

    John


         

            

         
             
                                 

                 

                 
                     
                         
                                                                                   

                             

                             

    Re:

                             "as Blake said, there are "diseases within the disease." For our

                             cancer, we've got good ol' fashioned Adeocarcinoma and then there

                             is Signet Ring Cell and Lynch Syndrome, which are very agressive

                             and of hereditary nature. "

                             

    The industry and it's brainy teams love to obfuscate the facts.

                             

                             
                 

                 
    It is all a plot by SMERSH to control our precious bodily fluids!

    Facts; obfuscated by an industry/not relevant to John
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member
    coloCan said:

    Thats why i was rather surprised that "The Emperor of All
    Maladies" made absolutely no mention of Otto Warburg, the only scientist whose name i was familiar with....

    Warburg
    "Otto Warburg professed that the cancer problem could be solved if one could identify a biochemical difference between the energy-producing systems of normal cells (controlled growth) and cancer cells (uncontrolled growth.) His research with tissue slices 4 led to the discovery of oxygen-transferring enzymes in cellular respiration, and for this he won a Nobel Prize (l931). In l944 he won a second Nobel Prize for identifying the enzymes that transfer hydrogen in metabolism. But his research never showed that oxygen use by normal and cancer cells was different. What he did find was that cancer cells produced lactate from glucose in the presence of oxygen whereas normal cells only produced lactate from glucose in the absence of oxygen. This observation led him to conclude that energy metabolism in cancer cells was defective.

    Although Warburg discovered some differences in metabolism between normal and cancer cells, research did not bear out what he considered to be the "primary cause of cancer," i.e., the replacement of respiration by fermentation

    Over the next three decades research identified nearly all energy-producing metabolic pathways in both normal and cancer cells and showed that energy-producing systems in normal cells were the same as those found in cancer cells. Despite this, Warburg insisted until his death in l970 that the cause of cancer was "inferior" energy of anaerobic metabolism."

    Warburg was a footnotes in Emperor (twice actually) whose ideas never led to a treatment (at least not an effective one).   There is a large community that freezes the science in 1931 and ignore anything that came after that time period (mass production of antibiotics, polio vaccine, chemotherapy...).  
  • tootsie1
    tootsie1 Member Posts: 5,044 Member

    Perhaps
    My feeling is that what you do or don't do does make a difference, perhaps not in the way you mean it though.

    If what we do or don't do makes us feel better emotionally it is worth it.

    If what we do or don't do makes us feel better physically, even for the moment, it is worth it.

    I guess I am just saying that while a cure is what we all pray for, what we do for our mental and emotional well being is just as important. If it happens to also help our physical issues, all the better.

    Marie who loves kitties

    What I think
    I was diagnosed early, so I haven't endured the treatments, testing, and questions that so many of you have. I don't know the answer to your question, but I will say only that getting ourselves as healthy as we can can't hurt. So eating well, exercising, getting good rest, are all good things. They may not cure you, but they certainly won't harm you or speed up the growth of cancer. Does that mean I'm good at doing those things? No! And when I read Phil's very thoughtful answer to you, I felt ashamed and vowed to do better. Wish me luck!

    *hugs*
    Gail
  • coloCan
    coloCan Member Posts: 1,944 Member
    Buckwirth said:

    Warburg
    "Otto Warburg professed that the cancer problem could be solved if one could identify a biochemical difference between the energy-producing systems of normal cells (controlled growth) and cancer cells (uncontrolled growth.) His research with tissue slices 4 led to the discovery of oxygen-transferring enzymes in cellular respiration, and for this he won a Nobel Prize (l931). In l944 he won a second Nobel Prize for identifying the enzymes that transfer hydrogen in metabolism. But his research never showed that oxygen use by normal and cancer cells was different. What he did find was that cancer cells produced lactate from glucose in the presence of oxygen whereas normal cells only produced lactate from glucose in the absence of oxygen. This observation led him to conclude that energy metabolism in cancer cells was defective.

    Although Warburg discovered some differences in metabolism between normal and cancer cells, research did not bear out what he considered to be the "primary cause of cancer," i.e., the replacement of respiration by fermentation

    Over the next three decades research identified nearly all energy-producing metabolic pathways in both normal and cancer cells and showed that energy-producing systems in normal cells were the same as those found in cancer cells. Despite this, Warburg insisted until his death in l970 that the cause of cancer was "inferior" energy of anaerobic metabolism."

    Warburg was a footnotes in Emperor (twice actually) whose ideas never led to a treatment (at least not an effective one).   There is a large community that freezes the science in 1931 and ignore anything that came after that time period (mass production of antibiotics, polio vaccine, chemotherapy...).  

    My limited knowledge of Warburg refers primarily to his
    lecture of May 25,1955,"On the Origin of Cancer Cells" in which he argued the amount of energy a cell receives from fermentation as opposed to that from respiration is what differentiates a cancerous cell from a noncancerous cell. His name has come up periodically in the readings i indulge in as in the "Warberg effect",pertaining to a cell's ability to metabolize glucose . Don;t know how i overlooked references to him in"Emperor" as i've always read footnotes,etc.....I had also read that Yale Medical School was instrumental in the beginnings of chemoinfusion in the 1940s but missed reference in Mr Mukherjee's masterpiece.
    And with this i'll rejoin you all tomorrow as its time to try to get some sleep,which is rarely more than twosolid hours in a row without me getting up piss and/or check my bag.......Pleasant reveries......
  • KathiM
    KathiM Member Posts: 8,028 Member
    I am also shaking my head...
    I have no idea, but on this board, as well as my 'other' cancer, breast, board...we are losing many...

    I had a gal I was supporting because we had the same surgery. Our surgeon asked me to call her. We became very, very good friends. I warned her not to compare herself to me...because we were different...different family background, different age, etc, but she was, I think, thinking that because we were so similar, she would have the same outcome. When she was dx'ed with a met, she was devastated. She was even a bit mad at me that I did so well (we were very open and honest, we talked thru alot, this included).

    I CAN tell you that, in my case, that even though my family seems prone to cancer (mom endometrial and breast, me rectal and breast, my sis anal and breast) we seems also to recover easily and more rapidly from any and all diseases we have had (including cancer). I am fully convinced that our 'different' immune system has something to do with it...this is hereditary, and so nothing I change about my lifestyle is involved.

    That said, I do believe that a better lifestyle, one of moderation in most things, can correct other troubles...high blood pressure, obeseity, alcohol and drug trouble. But, again, I try to live a happy life, because I accept the lesson learned from my serious brushes with cancer (the first, rectal, I was given 6 months to live) that life does not continue forever, and I need to be involved with the people around me that I love as much as possible.

    IMHO, Knuffels (dutch hugs), Kathi
  • ron50
    ron50 Member Posts: 1,723 Member
    G'day Steve
    Right from day zero I have considered my self the accidental tourist of ca. I have made no great lifestyle changes. I seem to have so many different problems that whatever I do it's the wrong thing for something I have. So I work on the theory that if it makes me feel worse I don't do it. I don't drink or smoke cos they make me crook. I don't get much excercise because it hurts my neuropathy and arthritic back and joints too much. Unless it does not taste good or makes me feel unwell ,I eat it. I don't take medicines just because a doctor says I have to. I try em,if they dont help I don't take em. I haven't made a will. Never felt the need for one. I have often wondered if it's the fact that I don't really care is why I am still alive. Perhaps ca can't live with my attitude,who knows? Ron.
  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425 Member
    PhillieG said:

    How can Anyone Know?
    They can't, it's too complicated of a problem with too many variables.
    I made a post last week that had an interesting video on what a CA high school student is working on.
    Link to the post.
    Calif. HS student devises possible cancer cure.

    You might find it interesting Leena.
    -phil
    Direct link to story Calif. HS student devises possible cancer cure

    Thanks Phil, I saw that
    Thanks Phil, I saw that article when you posted it before, she's an amazing young lady!!! But, in your other post I mentioned...how deep can an infrared light penetrate?? I'm thinking the tumors the mice had were basically on the surface where this could be done, but what about those systemic cancers say in lymphnodes can a light penetrate and do the same....who knows....hoepfully she's on to something great!!! I was reading the Colon Club forum and it seems Roswell Park is starting clinical trials on something that I would hope is promising.
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    smokeyjoe said:

    Thanks Phil, I saw that
    Thanks Phil, I saw that article when you posted it before, she's an amazing young lady!!! But, in your other post I mentioned...how deep can an infrared light penetrate?? I'm thinking the tumors the mice had were basically on the surface where this could be done, but what about those systemic cancers say in lymphnodes can a light penetrate and do the same....who knows....hoepfully she's on to something great!!! I was reading the Colon Club forum and it seems Roswell Park is starting clinical trials on something that I would hope is promising.

    How Deep can Infrared Light Penetrate?
    I tried (briefly) to find the answer and what comes up in searches is mainly using the light therapy for anti-aging purposes. I did find an article that says it can reach to our bones, I certainly think they can do that. Light is amazing and what they can do with it is too. I tend to believe that is least difficult part of the equation.
    The idea behind this treatment is fascinating, the medicine (good for nothin' chemo...) can attach itself to diseased cells then the chemo can be let lose on the cells that need it. Much HAS been done over the years to make chemo more targeted and effective. This is yet another example of it. I'll have to check out the Roswell Park story.
  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425 Member
    ron50 said:

    G'day Steve
    Right from day zero I have considered my self the accidental tourist of ca. I have made no great lifestyle changes. I seem to have so many different problems that whatever I do it's the wrong thing for something I have. So I work on the theory that if it makes me feel worse I don't do it. I don't drink or smoke cos they make me crook. I don't get much excercise because it hurts my neuropathy and arthritic back and joints too much. Unless it does not taste good or makes me feel unwell ,I eat it. I don't take medicines just because a doctor says I have to. I try em,if they dont help I don't take em. I haven't made a will. Never felt the need for one. I have often wondered if it's the fact that I don't really care is why I am still alive. Perhaps ca can't live with my attitude,who knows? Ron.

    Ron "accidental tourist"
    Ron "accidental tourist" I love that.....get to a destination you don't like, move on and don't ever go back there :)
  • plh4gail
    plh4gail Member Posts: 1,238 Member
    PhillieG said:

    How Deep can Infrared Light Penetrate?
    I tried (briefly) to find the answer and what comes up in searches is mainly using the light therapy for anti-aging purposes. I did find an article that says it can reach to our bones, I certainly think they can do that. Light is amazing and what they can do with it is too. I tend to believe that is least difficult part of the equation.
    The idea behind this treatment is fascinating, the medicine (good for nothin' chemo...) can attach itself to diseased cells then the chemo can be let lose on the cells that need it. Much HAS been done over the years to make chemo more targeted and effective. This is yet another example of it. I'll have to check out the Roswell Park story.

    Would it be silly to wonder
    Would it be silly to wonder why they could not open up the area that needed the infrared and and somewhat be closer and more precise with the target needing treatment. Ultrasound use, CT guided techniques, and that big arm thing they use when inserting pace makers could be even more instrumental in acuracy. ? I'm just a Nurse and you know what they say about us Nurses, we have been known to save pts from Drs. lol....meant with affection to our Drs here on the board :)
  • Phoebesnow
    Phoebesnow Member Posts: 600 Member
    ron50 said:

    G'day Steve
    Right from day zero I have considered my self the accidental tourist of ca. I have made no great lifestyle changes. I seem to have so many different problems that whatever I do it's the wrong thing for something I have. So I work on the theory that if it makes me feel worse I don't do it. I don't drink or smoke cos they make me crook. I don't get much excercise because it hurts my neuropathy and arthritic back and joints too much. Unless it does not taste good or makes me feel unwell ,I eat it. I don't take medicines just because a doctor says I have to. I try em,if they dont help I don't take em. I haven't made a will. Never felt the need for one. I have often wondered if it's the fact that I don't really care is why I am still alive. Perhaps ca can't live with my attitude,who knows? Ron.

    Ron
    I think you are right, it's the attitude it can't stand . My body keeps attacking me too, and I keep saying no, I'm gonna keep going. Wouldn't that be cool "just say no to cancer".