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Dietary Approaches to Fighting Cancer

24

Comments

  • Rewriter
    Rewriter Member Posts: 493
    Fayard said:

    Does make any difference if
    Does make any difference if I drink my tea all at one, 18 to 20 oz per day? I think I read in another thread that it is best to drink 3 to 4 cups apart from each other. If that is the case, I am fried! I work, teaching, I can only drink my tea through out the day when I have time.

    Any suggestions?

    When to drink your tea
    How about a big cup with breakfast, a cup at lunch, and a cup with dinner? I've read that it's best to have green tea with a meal, as it will help alkalize the acidic components of what you are eating.
  • jazzy1
    jazzy1 Member Posts: 1,379
    Fayard said:

    Does make any difference if
    Does make any difference if I drink my tea all at one, 18 to 20 oz per day? I think I read in another thread that it is best to drink 3 to 4 cups apart from each other. If that is the case, I am fried! I work, teaching, I can only drink my tea through out the day when I have time.

    Any suggestions?

    Green Tea
    I agree with Jill, try to get a cup/glass with each meal...wonderful concept!

    Realizing we're all busy and don't have time every day to get in our 3-4 cups, I try to make mine stronger (I use loose tea so put more then normal tea in holder). This way I'm a bit ahead if I miss one of the servings during the day.

    Do what you can as no reason to stress over not getting all the tea per day.

    Hugs,
    Jan
  • Fayard
    Fayard Member Posts: 438
    jazzy1 said:

    Green Tea
    I agree with Jill, try to get a cup/glass with each meal...wonderful concept!

    Realizing we're all busy and don't have time every day to get in our 3-4 cups, I try to make mine stronger (I use loose tea so put more then normal tea in holder). This way I'm a bit ahead if I miss one of the servings during the day.

    Do what you can as no reason to stress over not getting all the tea per day.

    Hugs,
    Jan

    Jill and Jan
    Thank you girls!
  • RoseyR
    RoseyR Member Posts: 471
    Ginger, Beta Carotene, and Anti-Fungals
    Thanks, Jill, for starting to gather all the pertinent information on foods' anti-cancer properties. A huge job, but invaluable to us!

    Having read through the responses to her first posting on ginger, would like to add the following:

    I'm a firm believer in the efficacy of ginger. Years ago, a very annoying tremor in my leg--which didn't respond within a month to the anti-inflammatories prescribed by my doctor--was squelched after I did some research and consumed 2 capsules of ginger (Nature's Way) every few hours. In just a few days, the tremor that had dogged me all summer disappeared. Coincidence? I don't think so.
    Ginger has a powerful anti-inflammatory with a long medical history in Eastern cultures. And few side effects.

    But thanks, Jill, for reminding us that when platelets are really low, we should avoid ginger--as well as ALL blood-thinning foods and supplements, such as the following:
    a lot of green tea, our beloved berries, garlic, fish oil and vitamin E. These are all BENEFICIAL under normal circumstances but not when platelets are very low. And one of the reasons they are beneficial--not the only reason--is their blood-thininning properties. As cancer patients, we WANT thin blood (blood with relatively low platelet counts), for thick blood (platelet counts on the higher side of normal) tends to encourage metastasis, according to Dr. Keith Block, eminent in the field of integrative medicine.

    Likewise, according to Block, we want low levels of INFLAMMATION, measured by CRP levels in our blood tests. (C-Reactive Protein). Low levels correlate with reduced danger of cancer spread. Ginger--as well as garlic, curcumin, green tea, quercetin--all help to suppress inflammatory reactions.

    So in effect, if our platelets are not critically low, we WANT to ingest all of these substances.

    As for the warnings about beta-carotene: Several analyses of clinical studies explain that beta carotene was surmised, in a few studies, to CAUSE lung cancer because it was used a) by itself (rather than along with the other carotenes) and b) in artificial form. Several writers including Blaylock and Block clarify this point. Beta carotene is GOOD for us, but best when combined, synergistically, with lutein and other carotenes, preferably those derived from the algae dunsinella (sp?) if we are taking "mixed carotene" supplements.

    I was particularly struck by one of your comments that "anti-fungals" deserve their own thread. If one reads James Quillen's idiosyncratic book on nutrition and cancer (he has the credentials to be authoriative but tends to be quirky and anecdotal at times; footnoting is sometimes sporadic), he keeps speculating that many cancers may be little more than a FUNGUS. Repeated anecdotal evidence leads to his speculation as he cites several patients, told to "get their affairs in order," with, say, stage 3 lung cancer, who refused more chemo and asked for an antifungal medication--and who, ten years later, were NED. Granted, it's speculative, but many profound findings begin with speculation based on anedcotal evidence. Obvisoulsy they need confirmation through concerted study.

    But I think we should all pursue anything we can find on the possible connection between some cancers and fungi and list anti-fungal properties in foods and spices.
    Rosemary and thyme, I recall, are powerful antifungals--as is garlic.

    Sugar, in contrast, feeds fungal growth, and it was fascinating for me to read, in a book about Chinese medicine, that "uterine disorders" are associated with "too much dampness." Dampness = fungus, does it not?
    Eggplant, in the same text, was cited as a vegetable that, in ancient Chinese practice, was always prescribed for uterine disorders.

    Best,
    Rosey


    reply
  • RoseyR
    RoseyR Member Posts: 471
    Rewriter said:

    When to drink your tea
    How about a big cup with breakfast, a cup at lunch, and a cup with dinner? I've read that it's best to have green tea with a meal, as it will help alkalize the acidic components of what you are eating.

    WHEN to drink green tea

    Yes, drink it with or near meals IF you want to suppress iron absorption, as most cancer patients should.

    However, if you are suffering anemia that is CAUSED by low iron levels (not all anemia IS; have your ferritin levels checked), do NOT drink green tea with meals, but an hour later.

    Rosey R
  • Rewriter
    Rewriter Member Posts: 493
    Fayard said:

    Silly question
    Ok, this is going to sound silly, but can you please explain how to take/prepare the turmeric with olive oil and pepper? How do you heat it, in the microwave? How much of each do you mix?

    Thank you!

    No silly questions here, Fayard
    although I strongly believe that being silly has anti-cancer properties.

    I avoid microwaves. In fact, I got rid of mine. That's a whole other topic.

    As for the olive oil, turmeric, and pepper mixture, I toast a piece of whole meal bread (the least inflammatory kind of bread) and while it is hot from the toaster, smear on some olive oil, turmeric, and freshly ground black pepper. The heat from the toast warms the mixture, and this "meal" is delicious.

    Alternatively, you can use the mixture as the basis for a vegetable sautee or as the start of a soup or stew. Don't stress to much about the "proper" use, just add the mixture to your meals as much as you can.

    All the best,

    Jill
  • Rewriter
    Rewriter Member Posts: 493
    RoseyR said:

    Ginger, Beta Carotene, and Anti-Fungals
    Thanks, Jill, for starting to gather all the pertinent information on foods' anti-cancer properties. A huge job, but invaluable to us!

    Having read through the responses to her first posting on ginger, would like to add the following:

    I'm a firm believer in the efficacy of ginger. Years ago, a very annoying tremor in my leg--which didn't respond within a month to the anti-inflammatories prescribed by my doctor--was squelched after I did some research and consumed 2 capsules of ginger (Nature's Way) every few hours. In just a few days, the tremor that had dogged me all summer disappeared. Coincidence? I don't think so.
    Ginger has a powerful anti-inflammatory with a long medical history in Eastern cultures. And few side effects.

    But thanks, Jill, for reminding us that when platelets are really low, we should avoid ginger--as well as ALL blood-thinning foods and supplements, such as the following:
    a lot of green tea, our beloved berries, garlic, fish oil and vitamin E. These are all BENEFICIAL under normal circumstances but not when platelets are very low. And one of the reasons they are beneficial--not the only reason--is their blood-thininning properties. As cancer patients, we WANT thin blood (blood with relatively low platelet counts), for thick blood (platelet counts on the higher side of normal) tends to encourage metastasis, according to Dr. Keith Block, eminent in the field of integrative medicine.

    Likewise, according to Block, we want low levels of INFLAMMATION, measured by CRP levels in our blood tests. (C-Reactive Protein). Low levels correlate with reduced danger of cancer spread. Ginger--as well as garlic, curcumin, green tea, quercetin--all help to suppress inflammatory reactions.

    So in effect, if our platelets are not critically low, we WANT to ingest all of these substances.

    As for the warnings about beta-carotene: Several analyses of clinical studies explain that beta carotene was surmised, in a few studies, to CAUSE lung cancer because it was used a) by itself (rather than along with the other carotenes) and b) in artificial form. Several writers including Blaylock and Block clarify this point. Beta carotene is GOOD for us, but best when combined, synergistically, with lutein and other carotenes, preferably those derived from the algae dunsinella (sp?) if we are taking "mixed carotene" supplements.

    I was particularly struck by one of your comments that "anti-fungals" deserve their own thread. If one reads James Quillen's idiosyncratic book on nutrition and cancer (he has the credentials to be authoriative but tends to be quirky and anecdotal at times; footnoting is sometimes sporadic), he keeps speculating that many cancers may be little more than a FUNGUS. Repeated anecdotal evidence leads to his speculation as he cites several patients, told to "get their affairs in order," with, say, stage 3 lung cancer, who refused more chemo and asked for an antifungal medication--and who, ten years later, were NED. Granted, it's speculative, but many profound findings begin with speculation based on anedcotal evidence. Obvisoulsy they need confirmation through concerted study.

    But I think we should all pursue anything we can find on the possible connection between some cancers and fungi and list anti-fungal properties in foods and spices.
    Rosemary and thyme, I recall, are powerful antifungals--as is garlic.

    Sugar, in contrast, feeds fungal growth, and it was fascinating for me to read, in a book about Chinese medicine, that "uterine disorders" are associated with "too much dampness." Dampness = fungus, does it not?
    Eggplant, in the same text, was cited as a vegetable that, in ancient Chinese practice, was always prescribed for uterine disorders.

    Best,
    Rosey


    reply

    SUGAR
    I was interested in a recent discussion that seemed to say that giving up sugar did not make much difference in our cancer fight because our bodies would simply convert something else to sugar. Here's an excerpt from an article, the link to which is below, that explains in layperson's terms the process that is set in motion when we eat sugar and why limiting sugar can help abort this process.

    Again, I feel that it's important to restate that my primary intention is to provide a variety of points of view on diet; and I do not necessarily agree or disagree with the research I share. The only thing that I WILL say unequivocally is that I truly believe an anticancer diet makes a huge difference to our survival.

    Sugar and Cancer: Is There a Connection?

    The facts about sugar and cancer can be confusing. However, if you learn a bit about the science behind the connections between what we eat and cancer risk, you can make wise nutrition choices for better health.

    Sugar feeds every cell in our bodies. Our bodies need glucose, or simple sugar, for energy. Even if you cut every bit of sugar out of your diet, your body will make sugar from other sources, such as protein and fat.

    So cancer cells need sugar to grow, just like healthy cells. It helps to remember that there is nothing particular about sugar that “feeds” cancer cells any more than sugar feeds all cells in our body.

    Do I need to be concerned about sugar?

    Even though sugar doesn’t exactly “feed” cancer cells, it is a good idea to limit the amount of simple sugar you eat. This is because when you eat a lot of sugar, your body produces a lot of insulin.

    Insulin is a natural substance made by the body. Insulin can tell cells to grow. In simple terms, insulin can “rev up” cell growth. For healthy cells, this is a good thing. This is because the cells in your body grow, divide, die, and are replaced as part of the natural process of living. However, cancer cells can be encouraged to grow more, too, when our bodies produce too much insulin. So while some insulin in the body is normal, excess insulin may encourage cancer cells to grow more, which is not a good thing (1-6).

    This is the downside of insulin: Our bodies need it to function, but it’s unhealthy if we make too much of it.

    In summary, sugar does not “feed” cancer cells. However, a lot of sugar can cause our bodies to produce too much insulin, and this is not good for health.



    Here's the link to the entire article:

    http://www.caring4cancer.com/go/cancer/nutrition/questions/sugar-and-cancer-is-there-a-connection.htm
  • JoAnnDK
    JoAnnDK Member Posts: 275
    Rewriter said:

    SUGAR
    I was interested in a recent discussion that seemed to say that giving up sugar did not make much difference in our cancer fight because our bodies would simply convert something else to sugar. Here's an excerpt from an article, the link to which is below, that explains in layperson's terms the process that is set in motion when we eat sugar and why limiting sugar can help abort this process.

    Again, I feel that it's important to restate that my primary intention is to provide a variety of points of view on diet; and I do not necessarily agree or disagree with the research I share. The only thing that I WILL say unequivocally is that I truly believe an anticancer diet makes a huge difference to our survival.

    Sugar and Cancer: Is There a Connection?

    The facts about sugar and cancer can be confusing. However, if you learn a bit about the science behind the connections between what we eat and cancer risk, you can make wise nutrition choices for better health.

    Sugar feeds every cell in our bodies. Our bodies need glucose, or simple sugar, for energy. Even if you cut every bit of sugar out of your diet, your body will make sugar from other sources, such as protein and fat.

    So cancer cells need sugar to grow, just like healthy cells. It helps to remember that there is nothing particular about sugar that “feeds” cancer cells any more than sugar feeds all cells in our body.

    Do I need to be concerned about sugar?

    Even though sugar doesn’t exactly “feed” cancer cells, it is a good idea to limit the amount of simple sugar you eat. This is because when you eat a lot of sugar, your body produces a lot of insulin.

    Insulin is a natural substance made by the body. Insulin can tell cells to grow. In simple terms, insulin can “rev up” cell growth. For healthy cells, this is a good thing. This is because the cells in your body grow, divide, die, and are replaced as part of the natural process of living. However, cancer cells can be encouraged to grow more, too, when our bodies produce too much insulin. So while some insulin in the body is normal, excess insulin may encourage cancer cells to grow more, which is not a good thing (1-6).

    This is the downside of insulin: Our bodies need it to function, but it’s unhealthy if we make too much of it.

    In summary, sugar does not “feed” cancer cells. However, a lot of sugar can cause our bodies to produce too much insulin, and this is not good for health.



    Here's the link to the entire article:

    http://www.caring4cancer.com/go/cancer/nutrition/questions/sugar-and-cancer-is-there-a-connection.htm

    sugar and TV
    Just wondering if I need to stop watching TOP CHEF: Just Desserts? LOL

    I did make a clafouti this week that was amazingly delicious and I enjoyed every bite despite the fact that it had (a low amount of ) sugar in it as well as a lot of fat (heavy cream). It was my treat for the week!


    JOANN
  • Rewriter
    Rewriter Member Posts: 493
    JoAnnDK said:

    sugar and TV
    Just wondering if I need to stop watching TOP CHEF: Just Desserts? LOL

    I did make a clafouti this week that was amazingly delicious and I enjoyed every bite despite the fact that it had (a low amount of ) sugar in it as well as a lot of fat (heavy cream). It was my treat for the week!


    JOANN

    Clafouti
    Have they made a panna cotta yet? That is my favorite dessert. Your clafouti is something I would have liked to try, too.

    Tonight, I will have a margarita as my "dessert" for the week; but I will balance it with beans, vegetables, avocado, and cilantro.

    Jill
  • Fayard
    Fayard Member Posts: 438
    Rewriter said:

    No silly questions here, Fayard
    although I strongly believe that being silly has anti-cancer properties.

    I avoid microwaves. In fact, I got rid of mine. That's a whole other topic.

    As for the olive oil, turmeric, and pepper mixture, I toast a piece of whole meal bread (the least inflammatory kind of bread) and while it is hot from the toaster, smear on some olive oil, turmeric, and freshly ground black pepper. The heat from the toast warms the mixture, and this "meal" is delicious.

    Alternatively, you can use the mixture as the basis for a vegetable sautee or as the start of a soup or stew. Don't stress to much about the "proper" use, just add the mixture to your meals as much as you can.

    All the best,

    Jill

    Gracias Jill!
    Well, I think I am on the right track, since my husband and I put turmeric, pepper and olive oil almost in everything, is not in everything.
  • JoAnnDK
    JoAnnDK Member Posts: 275
    Rewriter said:

    Clafouti
    Have they made a panna cotta yet? That is my favorite dessert. Your clafouti is something I would have liked to try, too.

    Tonight, I will have a margarita as my "dessert" for the week; but I will balance it with beans, vegetables, avocado, and cilantro.

    Jill

    desserts
    I have not seen the chefs make a panna cotta yet, Jill, but Giada often makes them on her show. The clafouti is a recipe from Ina Garten.

    Enjoy your margarita. Cheers!
  • daisy366
    daisy366 Member Posts: 1,458
    JoAnnDK said:

    desserts
    I have not seen the chefs make a panna cotta yet, Jill, but Giada often makes them on her show. The clafouti is a recipe from Ina Garten.

    Enjoy your margarita. Cheers!

    Kefir?
    There's been alot of discussion about dairy. I'm wondering if anyone is drinking kefir? This was OK on my alternative doc's diet. The Budwig Protocol also says to use flaxseed oil with cottage cheese or kefir, I believe.

    I just brewed some kefir (I purchased culture in health food store).

    Mary Ann
  • Tethys41
    Tethys41 Member Posts: 1,373 **
    daisy366 said:

    Kefir?
    There's been alot of discussion about dairy. I'm wondering if anyone is drinking kefir? This was OK on my alternative doc's diet. The Budwig Protocol also says to use flaxseed oil with cottage cheese or kefir, I believe.

    I just brewed some kefir (I purchased culture in health food store).

    Mary Ann

    Kefir
    This would only be advisable if you are using hormone-free, antibiotic-free, organic milk. On top of that I would add that it should come from grass-fed cows and ideally you would acquire it raw.
  • culka
    culka Member Posts: 149
    daisy366 said:

    Kefir?
    There's been alot of discussion about dairy. I'm wondering if anyone is drinking kefir? This was OK on my alternative doc's diet. The Budwig Protocol also says to use flaxseed oil with cottage cheese or kefir, I believe.

    I just brewed some kefir (I purchased culture in health food store).

    Mary Ann

    Kefir
    I used to. After I finished my long fast I started to make kefir from Tibetian mushroom, but it was too much kefir for me. Nobody at home drink it. Sometimes at the end of July I got that nasty summer cold, cough for 6 weeks, I even started looking for symptoms of lung metastasis.
    Milk is milk. One of the worst mucus producing food what we can eat, so I dried that mushroom and for Budwig mix I occasionally by Greek yogurt.
  • jazzy1
    jazzy1 Member Posts: 1,379
    daisy366 said:

    Kefir?
    There's been alot of discussion about dairy. I'm wondering if anyone is drinking kefir? This was OK on my alternative doc's diet. The Budwig Protocol also says to use flaxseed oil with cottage cheese or kefir, I believe.

    I just brewed some kefir (I purchased culture in health food store).

    Mary Ann

    Mary Ann
    You on the Budwig Protocol? I remember at beginning of my cancer journey reading up on this and decided to try it. Wow...it took everything in me to get it down twice per day, so I eventually stopped.

    Anyone else trying this Budwig concoction? Curious....
  • daisy366
    daisy366 Member Posts: 1,458
    jazzy1 said:

    Mary Ann
    You on the Budwig Protocol? I remember at beginning of my cancer journey reading up on this and decided to try it. Wow...it took everything in me to get it down twice per day, so I eventually stopped.

    Anyone else trying this Budwig concoction? Curious....

    Jan
    Not now. I was on it last year for a short time. Occasionally I will add the flaxseed oil to cottage cheese or yogurt. Fruit, nuts, and cinnamon helps it go down easier.
  • JoAnnDK
    JoAnnDK Member Posts: 275
    daisy366 said:

    Jan
    Not now. I was on it last year for a short time. Occasionally I will add the flaxseed oil to cottage cheese or yogurt. Fruit, nuts, and cinnamon helps it go down easier.

    protein
    For those looking for more protein for your "buck", try FARRO. I discovered it a few months ago and may never go back to rice.

    http://endurancebuzz.com/2011/01/25/farro-a-low-gluten-grain-packed-with-protein/
  • JoAnnDK
    JoAnnDK Member Posts: 275
    JoAnnDK said:

    protein
    For those looking for more protein for your "buck", try FARRO. I discovered it a few months ago and may never go back to rice.

    http://endurancebuzz.com/2011/01/25/farro-a-low-gluten-grain-packed-with-protein/

    articles about supplements
    I was at my radiation oncologist's office today and found the new copy of CURE, a magazine I really like - I often find interesting articles in it.

    The issue I read had three articles about supplements, the first (link below) written by the chief of the Integrative Medicine service at Sloan Kettering.

    http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1765

    And this one: http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1748

    and one more: http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1773

    Interesting perspectives, especially the first article.
  • Tethys41
    Tethys41 Member Posts: 1,373 **
    JoAnnDK said:

    articles about supplements
    I was at my radiation oncologist's office today and found the new copy of CURE, a magazine I really like - I often find interesting articles in it.

    The issue I read had three articles about supplements, the first (link below) written by the chief of the Integrative Medicine service at Sloan Kettering.

    http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1765

    And this one: http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1748

    and one more: http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1773

    Interesting perspectives, especially the first article.

    Overall Misleading
    I read these articles today as well. Overall I found them to be biased and vague. Yet the overall message was loud and clear that supplements are not beneficial and my even interfere with your cancer treatment. But, in the same article they said doctors really don't know. There was no mention in this article about the numerous trials that have been conducted in hospitals like MD Anderson, that have shown positive results with the use of supplements in treating cancer. There was no mention of supplement used at cancer hospitals in Mexico and the amazing results these patients experience. In this country, doctors are trained to prescribe pharmeceuticals that go through a review by the FDA. Most are taught not to trust anything that is not FDA approved and they pass this down to their patients.
    Naturopaths, on the other hand, learn how the body functions with the use of supplements and how supplements help in fighting and preventing disease. I would certainly trust a reputable naturopath to guide me in the right direction with regard to supplements during cancer treatment, and have. At the end of one of the articles, it states that vitamin D may hold some hope. Naturopaths have known for years that people who get cancer tend to have a deficiency in vitamin D. That is one of the first things they work to rectify with their patients. These articles in this issue of Cure really reduced my faith that this magazine provides accurate, unbiased information.
  • JoAnnDK
    JoAnnDK Member Posts: 275
    Tethys41 said:

    Overall Misleading
    I read these articles today as well. Overall I found them to be biased and vague. Yet the overall message was loud and clear that supplements are not beneficial and my even interfere with your cancer treatment. But, in the same article they said doctors really don't know. There was no mention in this article about the numerous trials that have been conducted in hospitals like MD Anderson, that have shown positive results with the use of supplements in treating cancer. There was no mention of supplement used at cancer hospitals in Mexico and the amazing results these patients experience. In this country, doctors are trained to prescribe pharmeceuticals that go through a review by the FDA. Most are taught not to trust anything that is not FDA approved and they pass this down to their patients.
    Naturopaths, on the other hand, learn how the body functions with the use of supplements and how supplements help in fighting and preventing disease. I would certainly trust a reputable naturopath to guide me in the right direction with regard to supplements during cancer treatment, and have. At the end of one of the articles, it states that vitamin D may hold some hope. Naturopaths have known for years that people who get cancer tend to have a deficiency in vitamin D. That is one of the first things they work to rectify with their patients. These articles in this issue of Cure really reduced my faith that this magazine provides accurate, unbiased information.

    common sense
    Funny, I thought there was a lot of common sense expressed in those articles and gave particular weight to the one by the director of Integrative Medicine at Sloan Kettering. If anyone's opinion carries heft, hers does.

    "Supplements are not benign—they affect the body in different ways. They can alter the immune system, change hormone balance or affect the way blood coagulates." ———>>>Well, this certainly makes sense!

    "Researchers often favor the position that supplements may be neither good nor bad by themselves, and that it likely depends on how much you take and when.

    It’s usually a function of dose,” says Michael Wargovich, PhD, director of cancer chemoprevention at the Hollings Cancer Center at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston. “People jump overboard and think more is better.” ———>>>>And this makes sense too.

    For example, if someone came to this discussion board and was desperate to do something besides chemo, it would be possible that she might take the absolute wrong combination of supplements. And who knows how those different supplements/herbs react with each other unless they have been prescribed by someone who knows what they are doing, like your reliable naturopath? I would guess that the vast number of people taking supplements for cancer are not seeing someone like that, but are basing their decisions on what they hear from other people or read online. And we all know there are a lot of charlatans out there selling "voodoo" stuff.

    When I first looked at this board, I wrote down the things everyone was taking — and believe me, it was a very long list. Then I started doing some research, and found some suggestions that X and Y should not be taken together, then that Y and Z should not be taken together. So I started doing research on the research that has been done with supplements and it is very sparse and inconclusive. Much of the "evidence" is anecdotal rather than research-based scientific evidence. And yes, I realize that the companies that produce supplements do not have the vast resources that pharmaceutical companies do.

    Besides curcumin, what supplements have come out of MD Anderson trials? I know one of their trial is with Vitamin D, so they must still be trying to see if it prevents cancer. Here is an article from their newsletter about one trial:

    http://www.mdanderson.org/publications/conquest/issues/2009-spring/conquest-sping-2009-supplements-don-t-hold-the-answers.html
  • jazzy1
    jazzy1 Member Posts: 1,379
    JoAnnDK said:

    common sense
    Funny, I thought there was a lot of common sense expressed in those articles and gave particular weight to the one by the director of Integrative Medicine at Sloan Kettering. If anyone's opinion carries heft, hers does.

    "Supplements are not benign—they affect the body in different ways. They can alter the immune system, change hormone balance or affect the way blood coagulates." ———>>>Well, this certainly makes sense!

    "Researchers often favor the position that supplements may be neither good nor bad by themselves, and that it likely depends on how much you take and when.

    It’s usually a function of dose,” says Michael Wargovich, PhD, director of cancer chemoprevention at the Hollings Cancer Center at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston. “People jump overboard and think more is better.” ———>>>>And this makes sense too.

    For example, if someone came to this discussion board and was desperate to do something besides chemo, it would be possible that she might take the absolute wrong combination of supplements. And who knows how those different supplements/herbs react with each other unless they have been prescribed by someone who knows what they are doing, like your reliable naturopath? I would guess that the vast number of people taking supplements for cancer are not seeing someone like that, but are basing their decisions on what they hear from other people or read online. And we all know there are a lot of charlatans out there selling "voodoo" stuff.

    When I first looked at this board, I wrote down the things everyone was taking — and believe me, it was a very long list. Then I started doing some research, and found some suggestions that X and Y should not be taken together, then that Y and Z should not be taken together. So I started doing research on the research that has been done with supplements and it is very sparse and inconclusive. Much of the "evidence" is anecdotal rather than research-based scientific evidence. And yes, I realize that the companies that produce supplements do not have the vast resources that pharmaceutical companies do.

    Besides curcumin, what supplements have come out of MD Anderson trials? I know one of their trial is with Vitamin D, so they must still be trying to see if it prevents cancer. Here is an article from their newsletter about one trial:

    http://www.mdanderson.org/publications/conquest/issues/2009-spring/conquest-sping-2009-supplements-don-t-hold-the-answers.html

    JoAnn
    You're right on the money with the supplements. Years ago I worked as a distributor with a large corp supplement company and learned lots. One thing we should think about, many of the pills we put in our mouths donn't digest in our systems, therefore, end. up in the sewage systems. Never makes it thru our bodies to be used. So..why bother taking them? Secondly, many must be taken with another one and not with A or B or it's less effective....on and on and on. Very complicated....not as easy as putting a pill in our mouth and it does the trick.

    Many of us think a "pill" will help with our daily allotment of nutrients, but after being on supplements for many, many years I'm learned they aren't always the best for us. A few years ago I met with a nutritionist and one thing she told me, "don't go overboard with supplements...our bodies work so much better if we gain nutrients from our every day foods". That stuck with me and today weaning off many of my supplements and gaining my nutrients from my good eating. Now I've not dished them all, but really looking at what I'm taking and why.

    Remember supplements aren't monitored by the FDA, therefore, they can tell us "this will cure cancer"...and people believe it. There has been talk for years about monitoring the supplement industry and when/if that happens it will be a whole different ball game.

    Joann, Do you presently take any supplements? If so, can I ask which ones?

    Great subject~
    Jan
  • Tethys41
    Tethys41 Member Posts: 1,373 **
    JoAnnDK said:

    common sense
    Funny, I thought there was a lot of common sense expressed in those articles and gave particular weight to the one by the director of Integrative Medicine at Sloan Kettering. If anyone's opinion carries heft, hers does.

    "Supplements are not benign—they affect the body in different ways. They can alter the immune system, change hormone balance or affect the way blood coagulates." ———>>>Well, this certainly makes sense!

    "Researchers often favor the position that supplements may be neither good nor bad by themselves, and that it likely depends on how much you take and when.

    It’s usually a function of dose,” says Michael Wargovich, PhD, director of cancer chemoprevention at the Hollings Cancer Center at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston. “People jump overboard and think more is better.” ———>>>>And this makes sense too.

    For example, if someone came to this discussion board and was desperate to do something besides chemo, it would be possible that she might take the absolute wrong combination of supplements. And who knows how those different supplements/herbs react with each other unless they have been prescribed by someone who knows what they are doing, like your reliable naturopath? I would guess that the vast number of people taking supplements for cancer are not seeing someone like that, but are basing their decisions on what they hear from other people or read online. And we all know there are a lot of charlatans out there selling "voodoo" stuff.

    When I first looked at this board, I wrote down the things everyone was taking — and believe me, it was a very long list. Then I started doing some research, and found some suggestions that X and Y should not be taken together, then that Y and Z should not be taken together. So I started doing research on the research that has been done with supplements and it is very sparse and inconclusive. Much of the "evidence" is anecdotal rather than research-based scientific evidence. And yes, I realize that the companies that produce supplements do not have the vast resources that pharmaceutical companies do.

    Besides curcumin, what supplements have come out of MD Anderson trials? I know one of their trial is with Vitamin D, so they must still be trying to see if it prevents cancer. Here is an article from their newsletter about one trial:

    http://www.mdanderson.org/publications/conquest/issues/2009-spring/conquest-sping-2009-supplements-don-t-hold-the-answers.html

    Yes, Common Sense
    JoAnn,
    I don't think we are on opposite sides of the fence. I do agree that when addressing a disease like cancer, you can't just randomly pick supplements off the shelf and hope that you will get positive results. You definitely have to be aware of interactions and how the supplements will affect traditional treatment. I would no more recommend that patients choose their own supplement regimine as choose their own chemotherapies, without the guidance of a professional.
    What was lacking in these articles, however, is that there is a lot of research and practical experience out there that indicates that supplements can acutally augment the effects of chemo drugs. I spend most of my time on the ovarian cancer board, as that is where my history lies. I find it sad the number of women who do not attain remission or have recurrances. I've learned, through personal experience and research, that using an integrative approach to this disease yields better outcomes. And I look forward to the day when the medical community can embrace that instead of being threatened by it. The current position does not serve patients well.
  • lindaprocopio
    lindaprocopio Member Posts: 1,980
    Tethys41 said:

    Yes, Common Sense
    JoAnn,
    I don't think we are on opposite sides of the fence. I do agree that when addressing a disease like cancer, you can't just randomly pick supplements off the shelf and hope that you will get positive results. You definitely have to be aware of interactions and how the supplements will affect traditional treatment. I would no more recommend that patients choose their own supplement regimine as choose their own chemotherapies, without the guidance of a professional.
    What was lacking in these articles, however, is that there is a lot of research and practical experience out there that indicates that supplements can acutally augment the effects of chemo drugs. I spend most of my time on the ovarian cancer board, as that is where my history lies. I find it sad the number of women who do not attain remission or have recurrances. I've learned, through personal experience and research, that using an integrative approach to this disease yields better outcomes. And I look forward to the day when the medical community can embrace that instead of being threatened by it. The current position does not serve patients well.

    One other consideration that must be kept in mind in all this...
    We mustn't forget that our cancer cells aren't some foreign parasite that entered our body from the outside; our cancer cells are US, as much as all of our other cells. In fact our cancer cells are US at our most adaptible, mobile, and strong, our evil Doppledanger perhaps, but still a part of our own body as much as any other cells within us. I cannot see how we can hope to assume that the things we eat and the supplements we take aren't affecting our cancer cells,too.

    And without a lot of independent scientific study, I wouldn't personally feel equipped or well-educated enough to make those kinds of judgement calls on supplement combinations and dosage amounts. So I rely on a registered dietician that specialzes in cancer. She's very 'anti-supplements' unless a blood test proven deficiency requires emergency intervention that a change in diet can't accomplish fast enough. I believe my oncology team when they assure me that there is nothing I could have eaten or not eaten, nothing more whatsoever that I could have done, that could have prevented my SOOOOO powerful 'Doppledanger Linda' Grade 3 cancer cells from prevailing over their less adaptable and less mobile cousin cells. And I assure you that women who have had a recurrence don't take kindly to any insinuation that they have done less than they could. Please, everyone, be sensitive to that.
  • Tethys41
    Tethys41 Member Posts: 1,373 **

    One other consideration that must be kept in mind in all this...
    We mustn't forget that our cancer cells aren't some foreign parasite that entered our body from the outside; our cancer cells are US, as much as all of our other cells. In fact our cancer cells are US at our most adaptible, mobile, and strong, our evil Doppledanger perhaps, but still a part of our own body as much as any other cells within us. I cannot see how we can hope to assume that the things we eat and the supplements we take aren't affecting our cancer cells,too.

    And without a lot of independent scientific study, I wouldn't personally feel equipped or well-educated enough to make those kinds of judgement calls on supplement combinations and dosage amounts. So I rely on a registered dietician that specialzes in cancer. She's very 'anti-supplements' unless a blood test proven deficiency requires emergency intervention that a change in diet can't accomplish fast enough. I believe my oncology team when they assure me that there is nothing I could have eaten or not eaten, nothing more whatsoever that I could have done, that could have prevented my SOOOOO powerful 'Doppledanger Linda' Grade 3 cancer cells from prevailing over their less adaptable and less mobile cousin cells. And I assure you that women who have had a recurrence don't take kindly to any insinuation that they have done less than they could. Please, everyone, be sensitive to that.

    Not arguing
    Sorry JoAnn and Linda, not trying to start an argument here. Linda, I certainly meant no offense by my comment and even after re-reading it, I don't see that I indicated anyone has not done everything they felt necessary to fight their disease. I'm sorry if you interpreted anything in that way. Just expressing my views and frustration with the system. Still don't like the mainstream position, still don't like the articles in CURE magazine. Nothing personal.
  • Tethys41--Amen to integrative medicine
    Amen to integrative medicine approaches.

    Lovely that you are here. Thanks for your opinions.

    Best,

    Claudia

    (I nearly forgot--THE FOLLOWING IS A COMMENT ADDED TO THIS POST SO AS NOT TO PLUG UP THE THREAD. I ADDED THIS ON TO THE ORIGINAL COMMENTS ABOVE AT 4:37 ON SEPTEMBER 30,2011)

    Due to the discussion about Cure magazine, which I really like for the most part and find informative, I went to look at an issue I had to see how they rolled so to speak, as someone here was curious. So, I found 26 pages of ads, 24 were for chemo and fixing the side effects of chemo, 1 was an insurance company, 1 was an attorney.
  • carolenk
    carolenk Member Posts: 907
    JoAnnDK said:

    common sense
    Funny, I thought there was a lot of common sense expressed in those articles and gave particular weight to the one by the director of Integrative Medicine at Sloan Kettering. If anyone's opinion carries heft, hers does.

    "Supplements are not benign—they affect the body in different ways. They can alter the immune system, change hormone balance or affect the way blood coagulates." ———>>>Well, this certainly makes sense!

    "Researchers often favor the position that supplements may be neither good nor bad by themselves, and that it likely depends on how much you take and when.

    It’s usually a function of dose,” says Michael Wargovich, PhD, director of cancer chemoprevention at the Hollings Cancer Center at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston. “People jump overboard and think more is better.” ———>>>>And this makes sense too.

    For example, if someone came to this discussion board and was desperate to do something besides chemo, it would be possible that she might take the absolute wrong combination of supplements. And who knows how those different supplements/herbs react with each other unless they have been prescribed by someone who knows what they are doing, like your reliable naturopath? I would guess that the vast number of people taking supplements for cancer are not seeing someone like that, but are basing their decisions on what they hear from other people or read online. And we all know there are a lot of charlatans out there selling "voodoo" stuff.

    When I first looked at this board, I wrote down the things everyone was taking — and believe me, it was a very long list. Then I started doing some research, and found some suggestions that X and Y should not be taken together, then that Y and Z should not be taken together. So I started doing research on the research that has been done with supplements and it is very sparse and inconclusive. Much of the "evidence" is anecdotal rather than research-based scientific evidence. And yes, I realize that the companies that produce supplements do not have the vast resources that pharmaceutical companies do.

    Besides curcumin, what supplements have come out of MD Anderson trials? I know one of their trial is with Vitamin D, so they must still be trying to see if it prevents cancer. Here is an article from their newsletter about one trial:

    http://www.mdanderson.org/publications/conquest/issues/2009-spring/conquest-sping-2009-supplements-don-t-hold-the-answers.html

    Get your nutrition from food
    I have to agree with the first link:

    http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1765

    Vitamin E IS a complex rather than an isolated substance. So that explains why the smoking studies didn't show any benefit from taking "vitamins."

    Unfortunately, the food is only as good as the soil that it is grown on.
  • JoAnnDK
    JoAnnDK Member Posts: 275
    Tethys41 said:

    Yes, Common Sense
    JoAnn,
    I don't think we are on opposite sides of the fence. I do agree that when addressing a disease like cancer, you can't just randomly pick supplements off the shelf and hope that you will get positive results. You definitely have to be aware of interactions and how the supplements will affect traditional treatment. I would no more recommend that patients choose their own supplement regimine as choose their own chemotherapies, without the guidance of a professional.
    What was lacking in these articles, however, is that there is a lot of research and practical experience out there that indicates that supplements can acutally augment the effects of chemo drugs. I spend most of my time on the ovarian cancer board, as that is where my history lies. I find it sad the number of women who do not attain remission or have recurrances. I've learned, through personal experience and research, that using an integrative approach to this disease yields better outcomes. And I look forward to the day when the medical community can embrace that instead of being threatened by it. The current position does not serve patients well.

    Supplements and direction
    Turmeric should not be used if one uses the common meds aspirin or Advil, or with cloves, gingko, garlic, or ginger — because all of these meds and herbs slow blood clotting, as does turmeric, and the combination might slow the clotting to a dangerous level. This info is from NIH.

    I know I have read of people on this board using turmeric and some or all of these other substances. Were they aware of the contraindication? I think not. I would bet that fewer than a handful of women consult someone who is really in the know about supplements, herbs, etc. and is, most importantly, qualified. I would go to the highly-qualified woman at S-K who wrote that CURE article in a heartbeat!

    I have only read that there is a lot of research being done on supplements from supplement companies or those who are pushing them, like paid spokespersons, usually celebrities. These are NOT the people I want giving me health advice. There are a few ongoing studies at reputable institutions, but not many. There is little scientific evidence about most supplements. Just anecdotes.

    Implying that women who did not use an integrative approach have recurrences is hurtful to those women on this board who have recurred despite doing everything they can.
  • california_artist
    california_artist Member Posts: 816
    Differing perspectives
    We all come on here to share what we have learned, with others, so that they have as much information as they can to choose from to make their decisions in regards to their treatment. Just as I don't assume that the person talking about chemo, radiation or any other of the typical treatments is directing their comments at myself, or any of the others here who choose to add nutrient based components to their regimens, I am surprised that anyone feels that sharing nutritional based information means that if they don't use it they are therefor not doing everything they can to help themselves, or that it is directed at some person in particular.

    Maybe I'm naive. Probably am. Are all of you directing your chemo uses and talks at me? Do you all mean to imply that by my not doing what you are doing, I am not doing everything I can to help myself? Geeze Loiuse, I certainly hope not. Cause if you have been, I have totally missed that missive. I just assume you are sharing your experiences and knowledge, as am I and the others here --to help one another.

    Shared information from me is just and only that, shared information. Please don't ever, any of you feel like you have to do something just because I've mentioned it. I hear what you all are doing. Okay. that's you and your decision. Fine by me. I often suggest that you take a particular study to your own physician to see if they would think it might be of use to you in your particular situation.

    So, what if----wait. I did rather feel like the articles on anti supplementation was an attempt to dissuade some of those that take supplements. But again, I didn't take it personally, just thought, huh, that's ah, --well actually I thought of the source of the article, CURE mag, and looked at the ad revenue and thought, well what you might think, should you choose to think about it, since it was all chemo realted. But, again, didn't take it personally. And, as I said previously, I happen to like CURE mag, finding many of the articles very informative.

    So, what I started to say up there was, let's just share what we have, knowing some will use the info and some won't, but whatever their choice, it's their choice. I mean, you can say what you feel about the info, but if it's not directed at someone, let it go. If I tried to defend my non chemo approach every time someone mentioned chemo or radiation, I would be very tired indeed.

    The whole field is in flux. New ideas are being added. New ideas meeting old established ideas usually brings with it some resistance. Antiangiogenesis was met with such outright derision and hostility by the doctors who only wanted to do surgery chemo and radiation, it's a wonder the poor guy continued in his research. He was still being slammed in the press and by his peers after the NIH had given him the go ahead for clinical trials.This after nearly thirty years of investigation and lab trials. Newness is a hard row to hoe. And while I know that dietary treatment is not new, and is fact an anciently based treatment approach, it has just gotten lost in the drug, and surgery approach to curing disease and is simply trying to make a comeback, in the Western part of the world where it has gotten over ridden. Some of us are more on board than others. That's perfectly alright.

    You know, maybe if someone is laughing at you and calling you a fool, it may just be a sign you are on the right track, and they are on a different train. And I'm saying that in regard to Folkman, not anyone here.

    So, chemo and radiation works swimmingly for some. Chemo and radiation and additional adjustments to lifestyle, work swimmingly for others. Adjustments to lifestyle work swimming for still others. Obviously, do what works, that's do what works, for you. And if it's not working, why not try something else? I'm just saying. If my choices should fail me any time in the future, I will absolutely try other things, even chemo and or radiation if I feel that that has the best chance of giving me the best chance for survival at that point. Can't be much clearer than that.

    And now, there was this absolutely beautiful man on the X Factor, whose eyes touched something in me, and I am off to see if I can't get a preliminary sketch done.

    My love to you all, take a cleaning, cancer disturbing long deep, deep breath and relax, while thinking of Rodney King's message, if you can,

    Claudia
  • Tethys41
    Tethys41 Member Posts: 1,373 **
    carolenk said:

    Get your nutrition from food
    I have to agree with the first link:

    http://www.curetoday.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.show/id/2/article_id/1765

    Vitamin E IS a complex rather than an isolated substance. So that explains why the smoking studies didn't show any benefit from taking "vitamins."

    Unfortunately, the food is only as good as the soil that it is grown on.

    Nutrition from Food
    Carolen,
    I like the concept of obtaining your nutrition from food. But I am wondering, when someone is dealing with a condition such as cancer, what they can eat to effectively raise their vitamin D levels, which are typically low in cancer patients; ingest enough vitamin B12 and B6 to avoid neuropathy from chemotherapy drugs; obtain enough L-Gutamine to repair the damage done to the gut by chemotherapy drugs; or obtain enough of the components in melatonin and bindweed to cause and anti-angiogenic effect; or enough modified citrus pectin to keep things lubricated, reducing the ability of cancer cells to adhere to one another. If I'm missing something, please educate me.
  • carolenk
    carolenk Member Posts: 907

    Differing perspectives
    We all come on here to share what we have learned, with others, so that they have as much information as they can to choose from to make their decisions in regards to their treatment. Just as I don't assume that the person talking about chemo, radiation or any other of the typical treatments is directing their comments at myself, or any of the others here who choose to add nutrient based components to their regimens, I am surprised that anyone feels that sharing nutritional based information means that if they don't use it they are therefor not doing everything they can to help themselves, or that it is directed at some person in particular.

    Maybe I'm naive. Probably am. Are all of you directing your chemo uses and talks at me? Do you all mean to imply that by my not doing what you are doing, I am not doing everything I can to help myself? Geeze Loiuse, I certainly hope not. Cause if you have been, I have totally missed that missive. I just assume you are sharing your experiences and knowledge, as am I and the others here --to help one another.

    Shared information from me is just and only that, shared information. Please don't ever, any of you feel like you have to do something just because I've mentioned it. I hear what you all are doing. Okay. that's you and your decision. Fine by me. I often suggest that you take a particular study to your own physician to see if they would think it might be of use to you in your particular situation.

    So, what if----wait. I did rather feel like the articles on anti supplementation was an attempt to dissuade some of those that take supplements. But again, I didn't take it personally, just thought, huh, that's ah, --well actually I thought of the source of the article, CURE mag, and looked at the ad revenue and thought, well what you might think, should you choose to think about it, since it was all chemo realted. But, again, didn't take it personally. And, as I said previously, I happen to like CURE mag, finding many of the articles very informative.

    So, what I started to say up there was, let's just share what we have, knowing some will use the info and some won't, but whatever their choice, it's their choice. I mean, you can say what you feel about the info, but if it's not directed at someone, let it go. If I tried to defend my non chemo approach every time someone mentioned chemo or radiation, I would be very tired indeed.

    The whole field is in flux. New ideas are being added. New ideas meeting old established ideas usually brings with it some resistance. Antiangiogenesis was met with such outright derision and hostility by the doctors who only wanted to do surgery chemo and radiation, it's a wonder the poor guy continued in his research. He was still being slammed in the press and by his peers after the NIH had given him the go ahead for clinical trials.This after nearly thirty years of investigation and lab trials. Newness is a hard row to hoe. And while I know that dietary treatment is not new, and is fact an anciently based treatment approach, it has just gotten lost in the drug, and surgery approach to curing disease and is simply trying to make a comeback, in the Western part of the world where it has gotten over ridden. Some of us are more on board than others. That's perfectly alright.

    You know, maybe if someone is laughing at you and calling you a fool, it may just be a sign you are on the right track, and they are on a different train. And I'm saying that in regard to Folkman, not anyone here.

    So, chemo and radiation works swimmingly for some. Chemo and radiation and additional adjustments to lifestyle, work swimmingly for others. Adjustments to lifestyle work swimming for still others. Obviously, do what works, that's do what works, for you. And if it's not working, why not try something else? I'm just saying. If my choices should fail me any time in the future, I will absolutely try other things, even chemo and or radiation if I feel that that has the best chance of giving me the best chance for survival at that point. Can't be much clearer than that.

    And now, there was this absolutely beautiful man on the X Factor, whose eyes touched something in me, and I am off to see if I can't get a preliminary sketch done.

    My love to you all, take a cleaning, cancer disturbing long deep, deep breath and relax, while thinking of Rodney King's message, if you can,

    Claudia

    Perhaps Tethys took my
    Perhaps Tethys took my comments that were anti-man made vitamins & miscontrued that I am anti-supplement. On the contrary! I take lots of digestive aides, herbs, alpha lipoic acid, resveratrol, ginkgo, etc. I WISH I could get into remission but the best I can do is keep my tumors "quiescent" or dormant. I see the malignant cells that reside in my belly as "confused" and needing to be re-educated rather than the enemy.

    I did take B6 when I was going thru chemo but saw it more as drug therapy rather than vitamin therapy. The IV ascorbic acid that I take is so far removed from the natural vitamin C that I see that as more of a drug than a real vitamin. If the ascorbic acid really WAS vitamin C, I don't think I would bruise so easily.

    The ONLY thing that I am 100% sure of is that I have been able to mitigate many of the negative long-term effects of carboplatin by taking supplements. I think there are some other women were spared from having residual neuropathy, joint pain or whatever & they didn't even take supplements. But I have a "touchy liver" & needed all the help I could get.

    Do I take curcumin? You bet! My gall bladder was removed so I don't have to worry about biliary stasis. I think it would benefit every cancer survivor if oncologists were more open to those integrative therapies that have been shown to have merit. Perhaps that is the way of the future.