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Question on cutting out sugar / red meat?

Aicirtap's picture
Aicirtap
Posts: 54
Joined: Apr 2013

Hi everyone, 

 

I was wondering: when a few/quite a few of you cut out carbs, processed food, sugar - what do you do about the meat? Do you cut out red meat altogether? How much protein do you allow? As much as you want or do you follow the "Atkins" types where a lot of calories come from fat? What about vitamins and antioxidants? None from fruit - all from veggies?

 

thank you and best

Patricia 

Randy33
Posts: 58
Joined: Jan 2011

I follow a Mediterranian style diet. No red meat. Avoid sugar and sat. fat. I eat lots of fruit and vegetables. I also have green tea every day and use tumerric as much as possible. So far its been working for me along with lots of exercise and some supplements. I am Stage IV and have been NED for 4.5 years.

          

thxmiker's picture
thxmiker
Posts: 1283
Joined: Oct 2010

We eat a Med diet also.  Little to no red meat.  (Once a month for grass fed red meat.)  There are numerous studies linking red meat to Colo Cancer. The facts that the cultures whom eat a lot of red meat have more then average colo cancer.  With the exception of Argentina. Their beef is also not fulll of antibiotics and is grass fed not grain fed. 

 

Chicken and Fish are great sources of protein.  Beans, lentis, Peas, rice are also good sources of carbos and proteins.  We eat a large salad at Lunch and Dinner.  We also add Mushrooms to at least one meal a day.  We grow our own green tea and dry the leafs for year round use.  We drink about a liter of green tea every day.  Not only is it soothing to the somach, it keeps us hydratedd in the high altitude.

 

I believe the battle for cancer is foiught on many levels. I am trying to fight on as many as I can.  Juicing also makes a lot of sense.  We happen to like juicing and juicing adds a lot of micro and macro nutrient to our diet. (Unlike a vitamin pill, Juice is balanced.)

 

Just getting out of the hospital and eating their industrial food, I was completely run down.  Adding salads and fresh food back in my diet has already picked me back up.

 

Best Always,  mike

 

John23's picture
John23
Posts: 1840
Joined: Jan 2007

 

You can read my history by clicking on my name and going to the “profile page”.

 

No change in diet for me. It’s like shutting the gate after the horse has run off, isn’t it?

 

There is absolutely no serious “proof” that eating red meat causes or promotes cancer. People in their 70s, 80, 90s, and beyond have eaten red meat all their lives.

 

Likewise, plain white sugar is not a problem, while ingesting products that try to fool the body into thinking it’s getting something it’s not, can be a very major problem. Do we really want the pancreas manufacturing insulin to offset glucose that isn’t really being ingested?

 

Eat and enjoy life. We can’t prevent a dying cell from starting a new life using the fermentation process, only our immune system can. That’s what cancer is all about.

 

Anything that can damage a good cell can cause that now defective cell to live on by using the fermentation process. Burnt foods can damage cells, a high fat diet, alcohol, or tobacco can, but so can the very natural process by which each cell divides and grows. It isn’t the “cause” of cancer; our body’s immune system’s neglect to remove that defective cell, is. It is the reason some get cancer, and some never do.

 

Eat a -well rounded diet-, just as we were designed to do – that’s what “being healthy” is all about.

 

(could you pass me the French fries?)

 

 

Be well.

 

John

 

Annabelle41415's picture
Annabelle41415
Posts: 4546
Joined: Feb 2009

After being diagnosed, that was one of my questions to three of my doctors and they said that nothing that was in my diet caused my cancer - and although eating steak bothers my stomach now (still eat it though), it's only about twice a month, but enjoy every bite, oh and it is always accompanied by lobster or crab legs - yummy.

Kim

renw's picture
renw
Posts: 282
Joined: Jan 2013

John, as always I don't agree with you on pretty much anything. There has been a lot of research on cancer and diet. Also we were never designed to eat a well balanced diet. Just saying.

John23's picture
John23
Posts: 1840
Joined: Jan 2007

Read my post again, with some objectivity.

A "well rounded diet" is better than a diet that consists of a pronounced absence of food products that our body is well designed to digest and use.

Having cancer is no more of a death sentence than growing old and reaching that statistical age of natural demise; We are going to get to "the end" one way or the other eventually, regardless.

Eating garbage isn't the best of conditions for one's body, but neither is the elimination of what our human race was designed to ingest.

You don't have to agree with me on anything Ren. I accept and am friendly to people that prefer to be wrong.

Be well,

 

John

 

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

i am stage 4 in remission again, just 2 days, been low carb 3 years, attempting ketogenic almost a year.

gogle ketogenic colorectal, you find my blog.

many great references, i enjoy my growing health and the sacrifice is easy as so many cancer friends have passed. i believe the role of carbs and adrenal dysfunction, and therefore immune dysfuncton and therefore tumour progression quiet clearly documented on metcola.

i have personal experience and extensively researched ketogenic diet. 

pm me if you keen, ill send you a top ebook on ketogenic. i have no regrets, i am in remission and have the best health. 

the diet needs medical supervision, check adrenals etc etc. read mercola onadrenals and ketogenic. excellent summaries.

oncs dont support these lifestyle ideas, some say extreme, goodluck.

johns answer well intended but deadly based on my research because the diets shuts down immune function.

do your homework, it might help you alot. i am not commenting more on this post, great question.

Lovekitties's picture
Lovekitties
Posts: 3110
Joined: Jan 2010

All my ancestors for as far back as I know were raised on a farmers diet which contained much red meat, sugar and carbs and they all lived good, prosperous lives well into their 80's, so I would viamently disagree with the "deadly" comment about John's post.

You do what you feel is best for you.  Allow others to do the same, without this type of comment, please.

Marie who loves kitties

 

johnsnowden's picture
johnsnowden
Posts: 20
Joined: May 2013

it seems to me that if the cultures that eat lots of red meat, precessed foods, and tons of garbage carbs have a ridiculously higher per capita rate of colorectal cancer regardless of race is proof enough, those statistics alone qualify as a 'clinical study'. these dietary factors seem to combine with genetic dispositions, because cancers develope in all societies, but our society is, like i said, incredibly disproportionate in cancer rates.

oh and please, individual cases, like 'people who ate red meat and lived into their 80's that i know', etc., is like 'my grandma smoked into her 90's therefore smoking is okay'. please. 

if not the diet, what is it? the preponderance of electrical devices?

Lovekitties's picture
Lovekitties
Posts: 3110
Joined: Jan 2010

I was not talking about an ancestor or two...I was talking about 5 or 6 generations with families of 10 and 12 children who are documented in a book written by my mother.

What has caused cancer to rise to such recent levels of the world population?  If anyone could prove a single cause, they would be the most celebrated scientist. 

The bottom line is that identical twins, raised in the same manner and environment...one can get cancer and one may not.  How does that work?  Why?  I don't have the answer.

A good balanced diet is not "deadly".  Cancer is.

by the way, my comment to Pete was to once again ask him to allow others to express an opinion, without bashing others opinions.  Differing opinions can be expressed without it.

coloCan
Posts: 1894
Joined: Oct 2009
John23's picture
John23
Posts: 1840
Joined: Jan 2007

Re:
"if not the diet, what is it? the preponderance of electrical devices?”

No, not “the diet”, or “smoking”, or “alcohol”, or anything else for that matter.

If you do the right research and avoid the dot-com websites and “natural food” websites, and most any/all websites that are promoted by those that are seeking to remedy their cancer by spending tons of cash on “new alternatives”, you just may learn how and what a cancer cell really is.

I gave you a hint in my initial post here.

Those of us that are susceptible to cancer, will be regardless of what we do.

It’s a simple problem that we all share = our immune system does not identify a defective cell and remove it, as it does for most all other individuals.

The dying/dead cell remains, and begins a new life using the fermentation process. It becomes a rogue cell, unable to take any instructions from our brain and body. It takes on some characteristics from it’s host cell structure, and those characteristics can be very different from one rogue cell to another.

Anything that can damage a good cell for those of us with an immune  system that ignores that damaged cell, can cause us to have “cancer”.

But we should keep in mind, that the normal growth of a normal cell; the normal process of dividing and the normal process of the discarding of 1/2 of the cell, can to us.... cause cancer.

The problem is with our immune system, not what we eat, drink or breath.

When we fully understand that, we will fully understand the reality of cancer.

My above statements are well documented in the various Journals of Medicine, although they manage to be drowned out by the industry that is intent on helping the cash-cow survive.

Eat a well-rounded diet and enjoy life as best you can. Do whatever it takes to help your immune system do it’s job. 

It’s been well documented, that if and when the immune system becomes sensitized to the cancer cell’s excretions, the immune system often begins attacking the cancer cells as it should have been doing.

In fact, that often natural occurance is the basis for the ongoing studies for  immunotherapy.

Eat well; be well,

John

 

manwithnoname
Posts: 409
Joined: Jun 2012

what a crock to say the least!

"No, not “the diet”, or “smoking”, or “alcohol”, or anything else for that matter."

some objective info here; http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/causes

peterz54's picture
peterz54
Posts: 245
Joined: Feb 2012

During a Q&A on CRC, Dr Saltz discussed findings about the value of diet and exercise for Stage 3 patients. Probably applies to all Stages.

Start at minute 8, unless you want to listen to entire discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5frjtvk1Lw 

If you are inclined to do your own research use Google Scholar and PubMed and search out answer to your questions.    Lots of information...

No offence to anyone here - lots of good information on this site which you should search out, but last thing you want to do is rely on opinions which aren't backed up by at least some level of evidence.   Anecdotes about family members is not evidence.  People telling you what they do and encouraging you to do the same is not evidence.  Worst of all, and irresponsible, are people telling you that they eat red meat and therefore you should too..I don't get that.

Seriously, there are many studies, some good some not so good, but many pointing to the value of a diet based primarily on plants.   I haven't seen any studies, zero,  which provide evidence that eating a standard american diet will cause cancer to regress.  Take the time to research a little.  Ok to use what people on this site suggest as starting points but look for supporting information.  For example,  look at some of the information Dr Greger has compiled on the link between nutrition and disease ( http://nutritionfacts.org/ ).   Dr Greger provides many short research summaries on diet and disease connections.   You can use the search tool to find colon cancer related videos an articles  http://nutritionfacts.org/index.php?s=colon+cancer.   Dr Li of the Angiogenesis  Foundation presents data which suggests that many plant substances dial down cellular signals which promote tumor growth.  Diet affects gene expression and cell signalling which in turn can affect cancer progression.   

If you are well enough make the effort to inform yourself - diet, exercise, ans stress reduction can make a difference.    

good luck

peter

PS   don't forget to exercise if you are able... 

 

 

manwithnoname
Posts: 409
Joined: Jun 2012

Co-author and geneticist at UCSF, Dr Christopher Haqq, said at the news conference reported by Scientific American that:

"It is absolutely intriguing this lifestyle change can have as much effect as the most powerful drugs available to us now."

"We medical oncologists are always looking for drugs that can do this. It is delightful to find that diet and lifestyle can have profound effects and be complementary to drug therapies - with fewer side effects," he added.

Ornish said the biggest surprise was how little time it took for the changes to show. People are usually unmotivated to change because they think it will be a long time before benefits begin to show, but, as Ornish explained:

"It is not really so much about risk-factor reduction or preventing something bad from happening. These changes can occur so quickly you don't have to wait years to see the benefits."

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 1074
Joined: Oct 2010

 None from fruit - all from veggies?

You can get fruit extracts without the sugar load.  Some fruit extracts are loaded with natural cancer/enzyme inhibitors.    

---------------------

My wife's blood tests show she will not be able to continue as much chemo without liver. Ditto some vitamins.  

While on chemo we avoid (synthetic) folic acid in fortified foods and vitamins like the plague.  It's toxic to varying degrees with 5FU compounds - been there.   Natural folates from natural sources feed the good cells, leucovorin helps form a stable, fatal complex in tumor cells.

 

MaryCarol5's picture
MaryCarol5
Posts: 95
Joined: May 2013

I have mostly eaten a mediterranean diet my entire life and here I am with colon cancer.  But.....I was a smoker for many years (smoke free for as many years) and have had a lifetime irritable bowel.  So, I don't know how much a part of it diet played in my diagnosis.   I do believe that a good healthy diet promotes good health by strengthening the immune system.  I think that eating lots of fruits, vegetables, and lean meats can help. (I don't claim to know everything). 

In my case, my family all believe that stress caused mine and if they can help eliminate my stress, that I will be cancer free.  Maybe so since I tend to "swallow" my stress.  IDK.

Anyway.....  there is some good advice above including a healthy diet, exercise, and relaxation.   My advice- Do it! 

ayres42
Posts: 1
Joined: Jul 2013

Hi Patricia!  After my surgery, it was hard for me to eat anything.  I was actually afraid to eat because it was painful to digest food--even broth!  Today, 2 years after my surgery, I try to incorporate many different foods into my diet.  I also have been known to suffer from anemia.  So what I do is maybe once or twice a week I will have some red meat, whether it be a burger or a steak.  I also incorporate fruits, veggies and even sweets into my diet (I was also a borderline diabetic).  Because part of my stomache was removed, I don't eat quite as much as I did before the surgery, so get in what I can.  It may take a week to do so.  My point is eat what you want but do it in moderation.  I confess, I have a bit of a sweet tooth, but i try to fill it with fruits, some sweets and maybe even a sweet drink or a smoothie.  Play around with it and settle on what's comfy.  You'll eventually begin to tweak where you need to.  Good luck!

Dana :)

johnsnowden's picture
johnsnowden
Posts: 20
Joined: May 2013

well i appreciate the feedback and i never meant to offend. i am a stage 3b rectal cancer patient currently in the middle of folfox chemo. i was very fortunate to have had a complete pathologic response (tumor disappeared completely, clean rectal biopsy, no surgery needed) thanks to the radiation treatments and i truly feel that a meat free, high alkaline and low glycemic carb diet helped this process. but what do i know? my doctors have said not enough research has been done in this area. early on i asked a GI doctor what causes cancer, he said, well, genetics, then diet. i would gladly provide all my medical records to help in any study that may be taking place just to help others with horrible disease that i hate so much. i do not take this lightly, and i am very worried about recurrence. and i deeply care for all fellow survivors.

i stand by the notion that the disproportionately high rate of cancer in industrial cultures is due to the higher consumption of processed foods and meats, polluted air and water, excess consumption of alcohol and tobacco. gluttony. but yes there are also other causes, like immune system anomolies, but those are probably exascerbated by those outside factors as well. someday we might know for sure. i don't.

and to the family that ate red meat for generations and turned out 'ok', how could that example reflect an extremely broad range of people and lifestyles? yes, they probably had awesome genetics and immune systems, but that doesn't mean it's automatically ok for everyone to eat red meat. i'm not going to provide links and all that, but there are many mainstream medical studies (not alternative sites etc.) that see a correlation between red meat and colorectal cancer.

do correlations mean anything?

i am sorry if i sound offensive or demeaning to anybody.

 

 

renw's picture
renw
Posts: 282
Joined: Jan 2013

Also there is a great deal of difference between the grass fed beef of yesteryear, compared to todays feed lot fattened cattle.

Lovekitties's picture
Lovekitties
Posts: 3110
Joined: Jan 2010

Yes, renw you have that right.  We have so little control and information about any of the food stuffs we consume...be it grown or processed.

Flour of yesteryear still contained all the nutrients.  Fruits and veggies were grown in soil not compromised by chemicals either leeching into the soil or coming down in  acid rain.

The environment of the world has changed considerably and not for the better.

Even when we try to buy organic...we can not be assured that the soil, air and water are without pollutants...even when no chemical fertilizers or pest repellants are used.

We all just have to do the best we can, and hope that is enough.

Marie who loves kitties

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