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Question of the Day!!

Eims's picture
Eims
Posts: 409
Joined: Feb 2013

Evening all,

 

I am just sitting here thinking and I was wondering what changes you made to your diets after surgery/treatment?  I know salt is now my enemy so there goes my lovely big buckets of mega salted popcorn!!  I used to drink litres of sparkling water but not that is limited because of the sodium content.  Do some of you still have the odd glass of red wine?  Is coke a no-no now too?  I love to hear from you.....Eims x

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

It all depends - if one's diet is already perfect then no change.  You're right to avoid salt as much as possible. Avoid refined carbohydrates, so thinks like Coke and all other drinks of that sort are absolutely a NO-NO.  Cut out sugar, sweets, cakes, cookies, biscuits as much as you can.  Don't eat too much protein, don't eat a lot of fat. Focus on vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, legumes.  Avoid all processed meats totally and eat as little in the way of processed foods as you can.  A glass of red wine is not just allowable, it's desirable from a health point of view.  Unless I happen to be drinking white wine, I have 1, or sometimes 2,  glasses of red wine with my evening meal most days. 

Your diet is healthier if it's mostly plant foods than if it's mostly meat-based foods.

Eims's picture
Eims
Posts: 409
Joined: Feb 2013

Awwwww Tex I knew I could rely on you ;-)  I have fallen off the wagon a little over the last few days and I even dived into a bag of crisps and a coke!!  The sugar is hard because I have it in my tea.  Processed meats have been more or less cut from the house anyway because even with 2 kidneys they are sooooo bad for you.  I'm loving the fact you have a couple of glasses of vino a day.

Eims x

foxhd's picture
foxhd
Posts: 1856
Joined: Oct 2011

I won't be the only one who will tell you that my beer drinking is never odd. 6 packs, and cases always go down in the common denominator of 2. I for one believed that I was never going to make it more than a year after surgery. I saw no point in saving anything. If I wanted a pizza and a pitcher I got it. I bought nothing new. Hell I have said that if I owned a 3 piece suit, I would wear it to mow the lawn. Now that I know that I will be here a while, I should reconsider. Others are so good about their nutrition. (I'm sure Nano will chime in.) But for me, I don't abuse myself, but I pretty much live like I did before my diagnosis. I would be motivated to change if my blood work didn't always come back awesome! I hate to change my lifestyle and jinx myself.

Dave Ferraty sp? had been drinking heavily. About 2 liters of Irish whiskey a day. His Dr. saw his problem and told him he needed help. David looked back and responded "I'm doing fine drinking it all by myself."

Eims's picture
Eims
Posts: 409
Joined: Feb 2013

Fox here in Ireland we call whiskey "uisce beatha"...translated that means water of life!!!  it heals many ailments!!  I suppose everything in moderation for everyone is a good rule to go by.

Eims x

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

I allow for a little less moderation when it comes to Bushmills!! (and Guinness) two of my favourite tipples aside from wine.

Eims's picture
Eims
Posts: 409
Joined: Feb 2013

Tex, if you can get your hands on some Tyrconnell or Connemara I promise you won't be disappointed and you know the saying that Guinness doesn't travel well so the best pint will be found here ;-)

Eims x

NanoSecond's picture
NanoSecond
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 2012

Eims,

Tex summed it up quite well.  But if you want to delve a bit deeper...

I have prepared a 60+ page .pdf file that explains the science and rationale for what I call a "proper" diet and "appropriate" supplements for cancer sufferers. It is something that I personally follow.

I have been taking the maximum dosage of Sutent (50mg/day - 4wks on/1 week off) since this past August when mets were discovered on my sacrum (base of my spine) and my left femur (thigh/hip).  I also had an 11cm tumor in my left kidney removed back in May 2010.

In all this time I have had no significant side effects while taking Sutent (plus Xgeva for my bone health).  And the last full body nuclear bone scan showed that my sacrum now "looks normal" (quote from my bone cancer specialist) and the lesions on my left femur are only showing "dramatic" new bone growth.

I attribute my lack of side effects primarily to the diet and the supplements I take.  Much of what I am doing is based on the book "Life Over Cancer" by Dr. Keith I. Block.  I also consult with him - although he is not my primary oncologist.

If you are interested in a detailed explanation of what I have been doing, please email me at: n.feldman@videopost.com and will be happy to email you a copy.

 

-NanoSecond (Neil)

todd121
Posts: 496
Joined: Dec 2012

I made quite a few changes after I had my surgery. I enjoyed ice tea with sugar 1-2 times a day and strong coffee with cream and sugar in the morning. All gone. I don't like it without the sugar and fat, so, gone. The coffee has started to creep back, but it will be gone when I'm back from vacation. I cut back on meat drastically, particularly beef. I stick to fish, chicken or lean pork (in small amounts), and increased veggies and legumes. I wasn't a big fruit fan, but have been forcing myself to eat some every day. I now eat oatmeal most mornings with some fresh fruit and walnuts (maybe some prunes or dates). If I want to sweeten something, I'm using honey.

I'm eating more whole grains, and almost no rice, potatoes or white bread (I over ate these before).

Sodas are gone. Not just because of the sugar, but the phosphorous in the form of phosphoric acid. Too much phosphorous is bad for your kidneys and bad for your bones. Also, carbonic acid, also found in sodas, is bad for your bones. I want to keep my bones strong now that I'm concerned about RCC spreading to them. Anyways, I haven't been a big fan of sodas for a long time, so this was pretty easy.

I was eating a lot of bananas before, but have cut back (practically eliminated) because of the potassium.

Salt is gone. I salt nothing now, whereas I used to salt everything before I tasted it. Salted popcorn? Gone. I used to eat it buttered and salted to excess.

I've switched to cooking only with olive oil, whereas I used to use vegetable oil.

I've almost eliminated processed meats, where I used to eat quite a bit of ham or similar sandwich meats.

I cut back/nearly eliminated alcohol. I did this because the wine I was drinking was giving me a lot of empty calories, which I don't need, and I can't seem to drink wine without eating cheeses or nuts to excess. Another reason I gave it up, is it interferes with my sleep. I have sleep apnea and already have serious sleep issues, and I notice alcohol makes them worse. I will have a glass of wine or a beer or a martini now and then, but rarely these days.

I love cheese, but I gave it up. I'm too heavy, and the stuff is just too high in salt and fat. I've lost about 15 pounds since my surgery. I want to keep that going, but this vacation home to Oklahoma definitely set me back. My mom and sister cooked all my favorites loaded with sugar, fat, and salt. I indulged some, but I don't feel too badly about it. I did better than I've ever done, so I'm pretty happy with myself. When I get home tomorrow, I'll be back in the driver's seat on my diet and it will be easier to accomplish my goals. I'm still reading up on nutrition and cancer, and I hope with more knowledge I'll make better choices and lose some more weight.

Todd

todd121
Posts: 496
Joined: Dec 2012

Forgot to mention, I'm forcing myself to drink water. I have to make myself do it. I don't know why, but I've always been a chronic under drinker of water. I just hate the stuff.

Now, for example, if I do have the coffee, I make myself drink a couple of cups of water afterwards. I never would have done this before. Similarly with that martini or glass of wine.

And I used to over-use antihistamines and decongestants due to my seasonal allergies, and now I'm using absolutely the minimum or none at all.

Todd

Eims's picture
Eims
Posts: 409
Joined: Feb 2013

Thanks Todd,  I have to say since I had the surgery coffee just seems to make me feel ill even my lovely skinny lattes so now I just avoid it.  I have always been pretty good at cooking dinners from scratch but that is even improving.  Oranges are the order of the day at the moment so I am eating plenty of those but I am sure it will be another fruit next week.  I never knew about the bananas so I will watch my intake on them.  What does everyone think of dairy products in general?  The killer is the cheese.....I LOVE the stuff and parmesan on my salads is a must!!!  I know I need to cut back still and I will.

 

Eims x

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Todd, I'll be interested to hear how much your seasonal allergies fall away with your diet improvements - I predict quite a lot, especially if you are able to home in on the items you've eliminated/drastically reduced that may be culprits in triggering allergic responses.

NanoSecond's picture
NanoSecond
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 2012

Hi Todd,

I agree with virtually all the changes you have made to your diet.  I predict that within about one month (if not sooner) you will really feel a difference in "well-being".  I didn't expect that when I adopted a very similar diet months ago - but for me it was almost like coming out of a fog.  I have not felt so good in decades.  This is completely ridiculous considering that I am stage IV and on the maximum dosage of a drug (Sutent) that so many other folks "dread" due to its notorious side effects.

Two small nit-picks:

1.  Olive oil (extra virgin cold-pressed is preferred - it is the least refined) is a wonderful thing to put on or in anything you like - as long as you don't cook in it.  All vegatable oils, when cooked, can easily become "damaged".  That is, they no longer can convey oxygen "properly".  This makes them the equivalent of "trans-fats".  The body does not understand that these fatty acids are damaged - so it goes ahead and tries to metabolize them.  This, in turn, may lead to a lack of sufficient oxygen getting into the cell - and that is the very thing one should avoid at all costs.  So, contrary to what you may have read all these years, cook with in saturated fat instead.  Since I refuse to consume any dairy products anymore I cook in coconut oil.  However, if you have not given up dairy, go ahead and cook in butter or ghee (although I still strongly recommend against all dairy products for several other reasons).  The bottom line is that the very latest science shows that saturated fats have been "demonized" far too much all these years.*

2.  It is still probably OK to very quickly sautee in olive oil if you would like to.

-Neil

*Guide to fats:

Fat is the collective shorthand name given to any large collection of smaller units called “fatty acids”.  There are three families of fatty acids of interest: saturated fatty acids, mono-unsaturated fatty acids, and poly-unsaturated fatty acids (also called PUFA’s).  What makes one fatty acid “saturated” and another “unsaturated” has to do with its molecular architecture and composition. In particular it has to do with the number of chemical double bonds that exist in its molecular chains. Saturated fats do not contain any double-bonded carbon atoms. Mono-unsaturated fats have one double bond while poly-unsaturated fats have more than one.

 

Saturated fats are primarily found in animal foods (meat, dairy products, eggs, etc.) and, less often, in certain plant foods such as coconut, coconut oil, and palm oil.  They tend to be solid at room temperature and soften when warm. They are very stable. When exposed to high heat they aren’t as easily damaged as all the unsaturated fats are. 

 

The most abundant saturated fatty acid is palmitic acid (also called palmitate). It contains 16 carbon atoms, all of which are fully saturated. High levels of palmitic acid activate an inflammation pathway that when activated in those cells of the pancreas which secrete insulin (the beta cells) results in beta cell death. Beta cell death significantly contributes to reduced insulin production and secretion that can lead to insulin resistance.

 

Foods to avoid due to high levels of palmitic acid are: palm oil; shortening; butter (unsalted is the worst); and lard.

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