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CAM: Cancer/Glucose Connection Video

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDUoUxI1III  still probably.... cat + pidgeons

 

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

just what i needed, I am having a hard time getting support for this diet everywhere. even the clinic here prefers expensive solutions to a simple diet.

I am pushing them hard, strange they don't advocate this therapy for those keen. I asked on the first day I arrived at the clinic.

Now I am more resolved than ever to try this diet and do it effectively.

hugs,

Pete

luvinlife2
Posts: 172
Joined: Jul 2012

I needed to see that and be reminded again.  Here's to getting back on the wagon! 

devotion10's picture
devotion10
Posts: 642
Joined: Jan 2010

with that ... I know in my other message that I said perhaps it was a silly idea that would not work, but maybe it will!

I came to read your message "because" it was titled that way ... perhaps others who might not be interested will stay away if not interested and then some of the debate might be softer.

I have a suggestion that would be even more clear ... change the subject from

CAM: I honestly wasn't looking for this

to ...

CAM: Cancer/Glucose Connection Video

Best,

Cynthia

 

 

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

Wink

janderson1964's picture
janderson1964
Posts: 1565
Joined: Oct 2011

I only watched a couple of minutes because it seemed too much like an infomercial. Do tbey ever say what kind of  cancer he had or the lab mice. I know he said it was the skeletol systom but what is the name of the cancer and what about other  cancers. Is there real medical back up for this diet and what this guy claims.

Tony I know you are very  careful in your research.

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

It does look a bit like an infomercial, accept there is nothing to buy, I did this diet with my son for 3 months, I guarantee you I would NEVER have done that without a ton of evidence behind it,  his health is my only concern, too many papers to list here.

However it didn't work for him, I don't think there is a 'cure all' for EVERY cancer in every person.  

I did great on the diet, took a while to adjust, but I felt very good, I was happy to stop though but Im considering an easy version of it. I was on 700k/cal per day but didn't actually lose weight. Ok maybe a half kilo.

I think just cutting carbs will have alot of benefit, but unfortunatley that means beer, and I do like the odd drop.Innocent

I did find out that gluten inreases T-reg immunosuppresive cells.

Really, have an objective read about it, nothing to lose.

janderson1964's picture
janderson1964
Posts: 1565
Joined: Oct 2011

That is what I have been doing is seriously limiting my carbs and especially staying away from sweets and anything such as pasta rice bread potatoes.

John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

 

There’s a four thousand year-old proven science that’s sitting in front of you, and all you can promote is some speculation that a “concept” can provide resolve?

 

Good grief.

 

Why is there so much prejudice towards a different modality?

 

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

I believe this is a 100,000 year old diet (or even much older) , when carbs weren't hardly available and we lived off protein and fat. 

Why are you so against a diet that is more natural as for a 'concept' do you realise this diet cured epileptic kids who had no response to medication, tell me how could a mere diet do that?

 And John, I'm not promoting it, I am informing, just like you are doing with TCM.

devotion10's picture
devotion10
Posts: 642
Joined: Jan 2010

I came to your defense the other day because i thought you were unfairly targeted ... and now you go using language that is going to get things all stirred up again. Surprised

Whenever someone starts a thread with "Oh, give me a break ..."

you have to know that folks are going to have a hard time hearing what follows ...

We thought maybe titling a thread with the preface CAM: ... would help soften the arguments.

I am not trying to be the morality police here, I just really do believe that we can disagree without being disagreeable.

Sincerely,

Cynthia

 

 

luvinlife2
Posts: 172
Joined: Jul 2012

Aaahhh...couldn't resist Cynthia..(I'm laughing here)..it hasn't even been 24 hours!  We need a green chair in here! Smile

devotion10's picture
devotion10
Posts: 642
Joined: Jan 2010

travelling in the car with my brothers and sisters on vacations.  No sooner would my Mama get a few of us settled down before another would start poking at somebody and then the whole thing would start up again ... lol.

 

 

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

your system has merit, give it time,  it CAN'T  be any worse than what went before...and Kathy it was actually about an hourTongue Out 

devotion10's picture
devotion10
Posts: 642
Joined: Jan 2010

I really think we all have so much to share with one another that is positive. I will just try to keep encouraging kindness.  We all must have disagreements with our families, friends, co-workers, and neighbors at times and we know what is going to start a squabble; we just know this I think.

I have been involved in a number of alternative lifestyle choices as a parent ... water birth, family bed, attachment parenting, extended breastfeeding, anti-vaccinations, starting a Waldorf School and then homeschooling our son, etc. ... these ideas are more mainstream now but 25 years ago they were not. it was harder to do these alternative things sometimes because you didn't feel the support that most parents get and often one would be criticized for these choices ...

I try to think of these experiences when I see people here get very passionate.  It is very hard to believe that something is right and not want to convince others.  I think everyone's heart is in the right place.  Geez, everybody has cancer or loves someone who has cancer -- I can't imagine that we wish to add to that burden.  

But, I am sort of a softy ... so when things get rough I am going to try keep the peace.  On a board like this it may feel intrusive to some to have someone asking then to play nice.  I will try to be sensitive to that.  It is not my place to tell anyone else how to behave, I just have my fingers crossed that it will smoothe out a bit.

I am glad you have stayed with us Tony and i enjoyed you sharing the video as much as I enjoy John sharing his TCM info.

Ooops, I forgot, I put John in that timeout chair a while back and I better go get him. :)

Cynthia

 

 

annalexandria's picture
annalexandria
Posts: 2193
Joined: Oct 2011

That's what my mom used to say.  One time she actually did it and booted me out on the road side.  She came back and got me about 5 minutes later, but I remember it felt like an eternity, scared me to death.  Oh, for the good old days of parenting...:)

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

Our eldest is SURE we done the same to him, he is 100% convinced we kicked him out the car, we didn't he was 3 we only threatened it.

Now when the car erupts I stop and I get out and start walking....

annalexandria's picture
annalexandria
Posts: 2193
Joined: Oct 2011

I got as far as the part where Pat Robertson showed up and then I bolted.  It looked like the same concept from what I could see.  Regardless of whether or not it works against cancer, it can't hurt to cut out all (or at least most) of those processed foods.  From what I've read, things like cold cuts and other highly processed meats are very bad for you.  Btw, did that guy's doctor ever come on to verify that he had cancer in the first place?  Not questioning the glucose/cancer link, but I've seen so many people pretending to have cancer (including some who have been on the news, had their communities doing giant fundraisers for them, etc), that I don't trust anyone anymore.  I always want to see documentation!  AA

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

believe it's the same, Atkins is mostly protein right? this is mostly fat. Now I don't know what his cancer was or if it was faked, not really important to me I know this diet has worked on people and it seems there is a clinical trial starting on it with brain tumours http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01535911 now I really don't believe anything makes it to a costly trial without some proof.

And it's not the only trial that's been done.

This also goes to show just how slow the system is, the first cancer kids treated by this diet were in 93 I think. Considering it's a zero cost treatment for THE most aggressive cancer it needs to be looked at IMHO.

 

I will say again, IT DIDN'T WORK FOR US that does not mean it doesn't work. 

I'm just giving ideas people....do your own research.

steved
Posts: 836
Joined: Apr 2004

Didn't really find much extra of value in this video which is a simplistic and superficial  representation of the information around ketogenic diets and cancer. If you go off and read some of the academic articles on te topic you get a sense of how complex itreally is andhow far from knowing much as fact we remain. There is particularly scant evidence in colorectal cancer with more in paediatric cancers which I am sure mwnN knows more than I do about.

I accept and believe there is a strong linkbetween colorectal cancer and diet but that actually this diet may havespecific risks for our group considering the very high level ofa evidence for a causal relationship between high red meat and saturated fat intake and colorectal cancer (around 10-15% estimated increased risk). Ketogenic diets do run the risk of containing these. My other issue is that I believe that if we are ever to find causal links between diet and treating colorectal cancers it islikely to be longterm changes to diet that do this. The evidence is that few people can sustain ketogenic type diets for long and that the long term risks to health (cardiovascular especially ) may be significant.

In the short term I believe there is little harm to people using these diets as part of their recovery but they should be open withtheir docs that they are doing this. It is likely to result in weight loss if nothing else which may have positivehealth effects. 

Steve

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

Your right the video is very simplistic, most of the info on the diet is way too technical for this board, here's a more technical document for patients with various advanced cancers; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3157418/pdf/1743-7075-8-54.pdf  as small scale trial.

If you look at the results, the length of time on the diet was more important than the level of ketosis for SD.

as for the meat/fat issiue, this diet is actually very low in protein and the fats are considered beneficial fats,  for long term, that is an interesting question, children have managed it for 10+ years, I think most adults would struggle. Also this mimicks the Innuit diet which went as high as 75% fat.

I will say again as my message keeps getting lost, there are many versions of this diet, just eliminating carbs. or restricting carbs may do the same. Of course more research is needed like most things, who is going to pay to research a diet on a large scale trial?

I think anyone with stage IV cancer should have a serious look at it, I think anyone in remission should have a serious look at limiting carbs. Just my opinion.

I also think Metformin may act in a similar way.

jen2012
Posts: 1195
Joined: Aug 2012

I find the whole carb thing interesting. It seems like we were all eating healthier before our son was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes after thanksgiving...then it was a hunt for the carb. He needed to eat a certain amount of carbs at each meal...no more bacon and eggs for breakfast..without eating some toast or potatoes with it. Ive read a little about metformin and look for more info to possibly bring up to my husbands doc. They keep commenting about the steroid bringing up my husbands sugar tho its been only slighly over 100 when tested.

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 956
Joined: Oct 2010

Continuing the line of thinking about chemoprevention and treatment with the diabetic drug, metformin, this fruit (paper re CRC),  bitter melon for diabetes, is common and cheap in asia.

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

Natural AMPK activator, stange I almost always look for natural mimicks of pharmacuticals and this one slipped under the radar. 

Now I have my nights research topic...

renw's picture
renw
Posts: 282
Joined: Jan 2013

I found the fruit hard to get, other than frozen mixed with sugar. I did however get some leaves which I brew daily.

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