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Why I love Thomas, The Ketogenic Diet hits the headlines, even Mercola at last is promoting it

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

Dearest Friends,

Please don't read this if life style interventions will cause you stress.

Please read this if you are interested in life style interventions with regards to diet.

Its a strange co-incidence that this article landed in my inbox the same day as my increased cancer marker, I am a making plans to do the full ketogenic diet, sold by doctor COY. its the ultra marathon of life style interventions. On a separate thread re a book review, the premise of the books was attacked and indirectly the lifes work of many worthwhile doctors. I presonally know one of the doctors and am impressed generally with their knowledge ( a few things on colorectal i think they are missing ). basically this discussion is focused on diet and the current science.

hugs,

pete

PS the diet, and fasting well its a low cost, effective strategy to try, of course discuss with your doctor. ask them about tktl1. they won't know, you will need to educate them each step of the way.

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/03/10/ketogenic-diet.aspx?e_cid=20130310_SNL_Art_1&utm_source=snl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20130310

By Dr. Mercola

To some, a ketogenic diet amounts to nothing less than a drug-free cancer treatment. The diet calls for eliminating carbohydrates, replacing them with healthy fats and protein.

The premise is that since cancer cells need glucose to thrive, and carbohydrates turn into glucose in your body, then cutting out carbs literally starves the cancer cells.

This type of diet, in which you replace carbs with moderate amounts of high quality protein and high amounts of beneficial fat, is what I recommend for everyone, whether you have cancer or not. It’s simply a diet that will help optimize your weight and health overall, as eating this way will help you convert from carb burning mode to fat burning.

 

This quote is one of many from the book below, DER is dietary energy restriction. If you are interested, just google ketogenic and cancer, some links are on my blog.

 

Late-onset DER also delayed malignant progression and significantly extended mouse survival. These effects were associated with changes in metabolic biomarkers, including blood glucose and lactate levels (Fig. 17.15). We showed that expression of these biomarkers was linked to the downregulation of the IGF-I/ Akt/ Hif-1α signaling pathway [77]. Our findings emphasize an important role for activation of the IGF-I/ Akt/ Hif-1α signaling pathway in potentiating the antiapoptotic phenotype of astrocytomas and indicate that DER targets this signaling pathway. A goal of the cancer drug industry is to target the IGF-I/ Akt/ Hif-1α pathway for tumor management. Our results show that DER can target this pathway without the use of expensive and toxic cancer drugs. Cancer patients and their oncologists should know about this.

 

Seyfried, Thomas (2012-05-18). Cancer as a Metabolic Disease: On the Origin, Management, and Prevention of Cancer (Kindle Locations 8206-8213). John Wiley and Sons. Kindle Edition. 

renw's picture
renw
Posts: 282
Joined: Jan 2013

This argument is running in parallel on colonchat.net, there its mostly the world vs John. One hand we have John with his personal experience, where sugar did not appear to play part in his remission. John was probably lucky, in that some compound in some herb he was taking had an impact on his specific genotype. TCM so far has not worked for me however. And i believe pete tried it as well with no results.
Some people have huge response to chemo, for others like me for example, chemo is useless so everyone's cancer is different depending on the mutations.

John's strong belief in that sugar plays no role in cancer is based on
1. his personal experience, where he ate sugar as part of his balanced diet and still got NED.
2. conspiracy theories that the artficial sweetener industry is behind the anti sugar hype
3. His personal beliefs

vs. the other side of the camp which claims that sugar/insulin play a major part in cancer growth rates. No one is saying eat no sugar and u will get no cancer or be cured of one. What we are saying is that sugar fuels cancer growth and by reducing or eliminating sugar, cancer growth can be retarded.

I have asked john to produce some evidence to backup his point of view. He came up with no study that discredited the glucose/sugar and cancer growth link. On the other hand, there are dozens if not hundreds of studies that shows a positive link between glucose/insulin and cancer growth. I am sorry John, but the evidence against glucose is overwhelming. There are also new studies coming out which hint at manipulating the body metabolic systems, as potential cancer treatments. Its all related to glucose availability. Same in the case of Metformin.

I personally have cut out all sugar and all high gi foods from my diet. I break the diet on chemo days where I pig put on sugary foods for 2 days every 2 weeks. My reasoning here is that folfiri only works during cell division, so I encourage my little mutants to reproduce while 5fu and riinotecan are pulsing though my veins.

Dxed
Posts: 79
Joined: Dec 2012

 

 

I am not sure why the claim is generating such diverse responses. In the video, it is said that “fasting” and this kind of diet was applied to mice and humans, and it was limited to brain cancer (and can treat other cancers). The results were great. He also maintains that he is writing a protocol for a trial at the cancer center at the University of Michigan. That is said, the whole idea is to starve your body to force  it produce ketones (owing to the absence of glucose in the blood stream). One’s body produces ketones to substitute for the needed sugar (glucose). Cancer cells feed on those ketones as they feed on glucose, and die.  The whole claim is to produce those ketones, and they believe that the recommended diet does the trick.

 

However, everything you take (no matter what your diet is) will be transformed into glucose. Now, it all depends on the level of diet that induces ketone production. Type 1 Diabetics also know how dangerously life-threatening ketones are. Every single one of (type 1) must have visited the ER at least once (twice or more is the norm).

To me, this treatment is not for a person to try. Of course he can choose this good diet for one’s own well being and general health. But as a treatment of cancer, it has to be under the supervision of a treating doctor. To add the Harvard study on insulin, there seems also a relation between fasting and less insulin secretion and cancer treatment. Reduction of glucose means less insulin secretion, and more ketone production. If they prove the effectiveness of this "fasting" Im sure they can manufacture medical "ketones" and have it at will and proper dose.

 

Sander

manwithnoname
Posts: 393
Joined: Jun 2012

"Work on the ketogenic diet as a treatment for epilepsy have investigated the role of glycolysis in the disease. 2-Deoxyglucose has been proposed by Garriga-Canut et al. as a mimic for the ketogenic diet"

Kathleen808's picture
Kathleen808
Posts: 2311
Joined: Jan 2009

Hi Pete,

I haven't read the whole post or watched the video yet but just wanted you to know that I am familiar with the ketogenic diet since it is a diet used for some people who have seizures that cannot be controlled any other way.  Our daughter has epilepsy and therefor we have looked into the diet.  Her seizures are controlled with medication but we know that if they ever get out of control the ketogenic diet may be an option for her.

Stanford University has a link that has a ketogenic diet planner on it.  I have not used it but thought it might be helpful.  http://www.stanford.edu/group/ketodiet/   I am interested to know if somehow a diet that helps some people with uncontrollable siezures can also help in the cancer fight.  Also, I know with the small children who go on this diet, they are monitored very closely as the diet changes the way the body works in some ways (please excuse the unscientific words).

Be well.

Aloha,

Kathleen

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

I wanted to bring the benefits of this diet to the communities attention, I feel it has merit, I am doing it. I was really seeking some support. 

To the few who watched the video thanks, for those who were constructive and kind thanks, to the others well its the law of kara.

If you are interested PM me, its to dangerous to reply. I will let this incredibly important post be my last to the community for the time being while I focus on my recurrence and my therapies.

Maybe some other new explorer will step up and try and share some new ideas. I have not seen many in the last two and half years here. If someone else turns up I wish them a better experience then I have had here, but its all my own fault and I have learnt my lesson.

My survival instincts are quiet well developed, thats something colorectal cancer. Sorry about using the sheep analogy, sorry for pointing out the failings of conventional oncology. 

Hugs,

Pete

PS I cannot even use the word HUGs, oh well one last time. I hope this ends the sugar discussion. I have read everyones comments, but its to soul destroying and draining for me to answer them.

manwithnoname
Posts: 393
Joined: Jun 2012

Don't go...sure you ruffled feathers and the 'sheep' thing was bad judgement, but there are people here who have done the same (or worse) and they ain't leaving.

The sugar discussion is not over because important issues keep coming back up, and it's important at least until we get a definative answer. 

I left as well and here I am againSealed

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

I have to learn german for all these conferences.

I have to knuckle down and meditate and exercise and qigong my ass off as well as have all these wonderful therapies and research.

something had to give, and the feedback here just made that decision easy.

when my marker is zero I will be back. meanwhile I will lurk occaisionally, shoot me an email if its something hot.

Everyday is a battle for survival using gentle holistic therapies.

hugs,

Pete

luvinlife2
Posts: 172
Joined: Jul 2012

I watched the video and did the reading.  My nat onc has been pushing me towards this for some time now.  He is convinced that my cancer cells are particularily insulin sensitive.  I've been on metformin for about a year now.  I must get very serious about this but I have difficulty when I cook for a husband and 3 kids who eat very healthy but have sweet tooths as well.  My problem is the carbs not so much the processed sugar.

Thank you Kathleen for the link Smile  I think that it's real help for any of us who will be getting down and serious about the diet.  I'm not sure I can but will speak about it further with my nat onc.

The only beef I have with the video is that I hate it when Dr.'s refer to patients as being expired.  It's so clincial and cold.  We're not parking meters or library cards...we're human beings with souls and feelings.  Why do they say that?  As you can tell, it really bugs me.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

I will go away on my csn holiday with a smile. goodluck with ketosis. I will race you there. I pray it works for all those brave enough to try it.

hugs,

Pete

rlridings's picture
rlridings
Posts: 43
Joined: Nov 2011

Pete - lost at sea - I am in all the way with the ketosis concept - just started and hope it is going well with you

renw's picture
renw
Posts: 282
Joined: Jan 2013

I wonder if anyone bothered to buy and read the book that Pete referenced in his original post: Cancer as a Metabolic Disease?

I did, and after having read the book, I believe that this makes it the single most important post on this forum. The book is not that well written, its repetitive and a little on the technical side, but the theories and the body of evidence it references is overwhealming. After you read it, you will never think of cancer the same way.

Get the book, read it, then read it again and after that gift it to your oncologist as just maybe it may get him to think a little out of the chemo box.

Pete said that this book may just save your life. I don't think he's wrong.

 

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