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Its a start:"Genetically engineered virus kills liver cancer"...plus other stuff

coloCan
Posts: 1870
Joined: Oct 2009

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-02-genetically-virus-cancer.html

and from the same site this date:

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-02-tumor-blood-vessels-cancer-cells.html

 

(for a nontechnical site with info on current research, this one aint bad)

manwithnoname
Posts: 400
Joined: Jun 2012

I posted months ago the use of an oncolytic virus called NDV, now over 40 years of research in all types of cancer with it including colon, the post was ridiculed by some, Pete used it in Germany. Totaly harmless for humans.

No money to be made on NDV by big pharma funny that...how research dries up.

coloCan
Posts: 1870
Joined: Oct 2009

can't patent and monopolize....In US, interlink between the industries its supposed to monitor and its own policy-making decision-makers at FDA is notorious;one example being big Agriculture in cahoots with the FDA (which it partly controls)and the unleashing of genetically modified foods which is destroying everything it comes in contact with except the insects it was supposedly created to destroy. The insects are adapting and surviving and in the near future watch how many humans and other living creatures,plant and animal.die from this....To get research to justify this poison, corporations involved are buying up research institutes to influence results-one specific example here  concerns bee colony collapse.....

coloCan
Posts: 1870
Joined: Oct 2009
tachilders's picture
tachilders
Posts: 315
Joined: Jun 2012

I work for big pharma, and the above just isn't the case.  Cancer vaccines can be patented, just like any other pharma product.  I am here to personally tell you that there is NO conspiracy by big pharma to kill people.  I will also freely admit that no big pharma company is going to invest millions looking into every anecdotal method out there for "curing" some disease.  These companies rely on proven research methods to decide which compounds to spend their millions in R&D budgets on.

 

Tedd

annalexandria's picture
annalexandria
Posts: 2297
Joined: Oct 2011

Thanks, Tedd.  It's appreciated.  AA

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

dear friends,

another rant, just ignore me, no harm intended.

but big pharma i suspect has lobbied government and to some etent shaped our rules and laws and procedures.

its happened in all western countries the same way. is my response a fluke, i say not. i am busy documenting other cases on the video blog.

its one way to have heaps of real life anecdotes, why are anecdotes no good if its all we got.

the effectiveness of these personalised therapies precludes the stand trial designs. which then can never be tested.

again given our genetic variety, our tumours genetic variety and lifestyle differences is it no wonder we fail to get results.

we have built a system where the only therapies that are sactioned by convnetional medicine are evidence based, which is trial based, which means that 

those therapies have to be incredibly expensive to cover trial costs. now ndv cannot be patented, its a free worthwhile therapy.

ok it think its like $300 per shot, i had two this week. it needs to be injected with hyperthermia, it synergises very well with vaccines.

given whatever i am paying is the cost price, doc n runs the cancer program at cost for local and interntional patients. he said no money for funding a trial.

he one the the worlds best, and earliest dendritic cell researchers. his papers have been criticised by peers for. not being standardised to get reproducable standardised results.

so why would he, invest in a study if he could. if i raise money, i will provide for people in need to get these therapies , not spend it on a trial, that wont be accepted by authorities because of trial design.

great points ann, ted and everyone. marie yesterday also pointed out about the legal framework and rules for medicine. 

if our cure is outside the providence of big pharma, it will never arrive unless we develop it ourselves and change the rules so this mess does not happen again.

i suggest this is a worthwhile activity. but i will do this in australia, why already i know i need $25 million to setup our first dendritic cell lab downunder.

doc n will provide all the support and training and technology. the first lab in australia to help patients will be fantastic.

the sad irony is apparently you have these labs in the usa, the best in the world, but not helping patients, doing research. because your governing rules

and laws prohibit the use of these therapies.

ask yourself why does doctor chang import vaccines for usa based cancer patients from doctor n. he is flying out tomorrow with another load of vaccines. these vaccines really really work. ask doctor chang.

again you have a situation that to me seems ludicrous. this is the sort of issue the american cancer society should fix, or is this to hostile.

i simply am calling the limitations of your systems, and making suggestions for its improvement. obama could fix this in one signature. it would reduce the cost on the health budget and improve outcomes. i think he is up for it. this is acknowledging the political realities that direct our health spending and priorities. if this is beyond whats permitted on our board for discussion i am truly sorry. as always with the best intentions and not wanting to be hostile.

of course trial based drug based solutions are great. i completely support them, i use sorry many off label drugs. its just now it appears the west, has a medical system that only delivers drug based outcomes. there is no funding for these non profit driven therapies. the proof of that statement is the tests have not been done aleady. these are not new discoveries.

just look at at the cimetidine and psk stuff. no profit, no trials. i suspect half of us would not be here with recurrences if we had that simple therapy in our regime during our initial care. contemplate the the reasons, that has not happened yey. why won't it happen. so we rely on a defacto info network here, where we share life saving medical advice because our doctors are not legally permitted to tell us.

that is the clearest example of the tradegy of our medical system. sorry friends i don't mean to bager you all. i think these discussions in the light of my therapy success show us a direction forward. they paint a realistic picture of the strength and limits of our health systems. at least when we have that truth we can make the best decisions we can make. you know my choices. I pray i am not lucky pete, my success is the result of effective medicine, then my continued path to healing is more secure. i am trying to be cool, as i know my results are prelimenary ( but outstanding ).

please disregard my comments if they any upset, they are just the reality as i see it. if anyone wants to help me rock the boat, pm me, somehow together we can improve our health systems. noone else will do it for us, alas. the have not so far. its our responsibility, its falls on our shoulders. yes i know at a time when most are dealing with serious health issues. maybe that why i am becoming so vocal and opinionated. i see it as a worthwhile use of the remained of my life, however long that is.

hugs,

pete

 

manwithnoname
Posts: 400
Joined: Jun 2012

But getting a patent on a virus (or plant) that hasn't been modified genetically can't be done, at least from my research that appears to be the case, please send me a link showing otherwise.

No conspiracy, just cold hard economic facts. Of course there is no conspiracy to kill people there is also no desire to cure people unless there is a profit in it, or am I wrong on that?

NDV is not 'anecdotal' look at the research from the past 40+ years, maybe even contact the researchers as I have.

Prof. Schirmacher 

Prof. Csatary

Prof. Slavin

I have read Prof. Schirrmachers response in the literature to 'new patented' oncolytic virus's being discovered and his sheer disbelief that NDV is being ignored even after proven saftey and excellent results.

The system is flawed and driven by $$$, sad but true.

Also isn't it true that in the last three years alone 'Big Pharma' has paid over $11,000,000,000, in fines!!! that  11 billion could have done a lot for cancer research.

"In all, 26 companies, including eight of the 10 top players in the global industry, have been found to be acting dishonestly. The scale of the wrongdoing, revealed for the first time, has undermined public and professional trust in the industry and is holding back clinical progress, according to two papers published in today's New England Journal of Medicine. Leading lawyers have warned that the multibillion-dollar fines are not enough to change the industry's behaviour."

tachilders's picture
tachilders
Posts: 315
Joined: Jun 2012

The NDV virus could, and likely would, have to be genetically modified to get maximum efficacy, and thus would be patentable.  I will freely admit that the system is flawed and driven by money, but that is a combination of pharma, government, and attorneys that are causing this.  The FDA "approves" medicines for use, but takes no responsibility if they later prove to have safety problems in wider use.  How many commercials do you see everyday promoting a lawsuit against one pharma company or the next?  My company spends hundreds of millions, if not billions a year on R&D, yet 90% or more of that money is spent on compounds that never make it to market.  As long as the medical industry, including hospitals, pharmacies, pharma companies, insurance companies, etc... is FOR PROFIT, we will have these same problems.  I take avastin, which costs my insurance company neerly $100k/year, but I can tell you from experience it likely costs less than $10k to make that amount of drug.  The problem is, the company that developed it had 9 other drugs that failed at some point, so they have to make that money back on the ONE that succeeded.  That's the current business model in pharma....  It is also true that big pharma won't spend millions developing treatments that they will lose money on (i.e not patentable).  These companies are all publicly traded, so they have a fiduciary reponsibility to their shareholders, and could get sued by them if they started spending millions or more on products that don't make money.  I don't like the system, but blaming the pharma companies alone and ignoring the other parties that are as responsible is short-sighted and unfair. 

 

Here's another question.  If, for example,  NDV works so well, why doesn't a university or the CDC or some other group work on getting it approved for use?  Why does big pharma need to be involved at all?  Also, there are places that will use NDV (like Hallwang), so why don't we all just go there for treatment, or why aren't clinics in the US using NDV?  It's because the insurance companies won't pay for it, and that has NOTHING to do with big pharma.  Insurance companies won't pay for experimental or off-label use of drugs.  Why not, if they work and will save money in the long run?  I'm sure my insurance company would rather pay $300/dose for NDV rather than $4000/dose for avastin, but they won't.  Why not?  Big pharma doesn't control the insurance companies, and in fact, it is almost the other way around.  If a pharma company can't get their drugs on an approved formulary (that the insurance company creates), they lose billions in revenue.

Tedd 

manwithnoname
Posts: 400
Joined: Jun 2012

Big Pharma, the whole system is flawed as I said previously, from companies like yours chasing money all the way down to Dr's taking kickback's to promote (push) certain drugs.

The government did not take those $11 billion in fines and give it to non-profits/universities for research, where did it go? no one's asking and that is also part of the problem, our collective indifference.

There will be no 'cure' for cancer if this system continues, only the very slow progression of a new drug being only slightly better than an old drug and getting approved.

Cancer I believe needs a global effort, a "Manhatten Project" effort, money can not be the thing that defines health and who lives or dies.

As for R&D is it not true that certain Drug companies actually spend more on advertising? at least that's what the internet says...

As for NDV, I know for at least 20 years it has been modified from the original strain, there are many variants now, NONE are approved, but 20 years have been wasted where people could have been prescribed the non-toxic original version that has proven to regress cancer and give very long remissions. And NDV is only one story of many.

The FDA, insurance companies, Government, and the Public are all guilty in letting this travesty continue, I'm not just blaming drug companies, we created a flawed system and there is no hurry to over-haul it.

Who pays the $xxx,xxx,xxx to get something approved Tedd? universities? private institutions? 

tachilders's picture
tachilders
Posts: 315
Joined: Jun 2012

I'm starting to think the entire medical industry (pharma, insurance, hospitals, doctors, etc...) has to become a not for profit industry to REALLY change things.  You will likely take a hit on innovation initially, but long term you would actually get more innovation as non-profitable treatments could be tested.  Also agree we need a "Manhattan Project" approach to tackling cancer.  The current system is broken, unfortunately like so many other systems it seems, and fixing it will take real leadership, but I don't think that exists anymore (at least in politics). 

To address your questions specifically, yes pharma companies do spend as much or more on advertising as they do on R&D, but that is because research and experience has proven that advertising leads to a better return on investment than research does.  With regard to who pays for the clinical trials, it is the company/entity that is trying to get the drug approved.

Tedd

renw's picture
renw
Posts: 282
Joined: Jan 2013

GlaxoSmithKline were fined a record 3 billion. It is speculated that they earned 5 billion as a result of their activities. Even with the fine, that still leaves 2b, which is a decent profit so why not rinse and repeat?

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

but yes it funny isn't it. i have to laugh and smile or else i get sad.

the ndv is working in me tonight, i got my vaccine today.

it works in this strange guy, maybe i am glad i am so different after all.

our lives are so cheap. the implications as always profound.

great research steve, always welcome,

what a mess we are leaving to our children.

hugs,

pete

coloCan
Posts: 1870
Joined: Oct 2009

www.ironmagazine.com/2010/poor-quality-control-in-the-pharmaceutical-industry-a-report/

www.ironmagazine.com/blog/2012/nearly-every-major-drug-company-convicted-of-criminal-behavior-in-three-year-11-billion-sweep/

 

Dr Mercola's site and LEF both have documented other examples....Yeah, i know a business's goal is to make money but can that not be achieved ethically?

Here's another food supply and health concern:

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130211162236.htm

 

 

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

always great, not offensive, but scary to some extent. i am glad we are going to make this world a better place.

it starts with awareness. it finishes with resolve. being a non gmo vegan seemed a safer choice, if only we could avoid the pesticides.

hugs,

pete

coloCan
Posts: 1870
Joined: Oct 2009

www.healthcanal.com/cancers/36108-Indian-plant-could-play-key-role-death-cancer-cells.html

(no way our docs have the time to look at all the stuff being published on cancer. I've been reading up on CRC over three years now and every other day it seems i come across another gene,protein,pathway i don't recall reading about previously,such as the Enhancer of Zeste 2 (EZH2) protein,which one team of researchers asserts the depletion of which blocks the growth of colon cancer cells. Having never studied this stuff in school,its that much more difficult to comprehend most of what i read.....For instance, what the %$%#% does "Variable Clonal Repopulation Dynamics Influence Chemotherapy Response in Colorectal Cancer" mean?-and this is an easy title)read that here

www.sciencemag.org/content/339/6119/543.short

(Some might want to check out last article listed at bottom on off-label drug Lapatinib,)

manwithnoname
Posts: 400
Joined: Jun 2012

as more and more dicoveries come out of India and China, 2 countries with an ancient history of herbal medicine and a population now getting 'western' cancers, also a poor rural population that has no insurance or any realistic chance of getting OVER PRICED chemo drugs.

On another note, we had to beg to be given off-label Thalidomide as our insurance refused the $5000 monthly bill, of a 50 year old drug that used to cost $200 a month twenty years ago, that was until it was found to have 'action' in certain cancers and the price has been rising ever since...yeah they are really looking out for the patient...

coloCan
Posts: 1870
Joined: Oct 2009

From what i've read many ingredients for vitamins,supplements supposedly come from China already. A report came out yesterday questioning the potency of Vit D supplements

http://consumer.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=673376

 

manwithnoname
Posts: 400
Joined: Jun 2012

quality control will be suspect, but wasn't there aa case recentley in the US of some contaminated medicine and people died? for quality I trust the Germans and Japanese, just like for cars...

vinaykumar
Posts: 66
Joined: Dec 2012

there are quite a few ayurvedic (ancient indian system of medicine stil being practiced)  remedies which are being used . 

i am also following an ayurveda  protocol for my dad which supposedly helps with chemo side effects and also helps with treatment

below link is the protocol we are  following....it costs abt $50 / month ....

http://www.divyayoga.com/component/kunena/10-ask-vaidya/36-cancer.html

there is lack of structured testing and quality controls in india so such treatments take a lot of time to be verified......i dont have time but i faith that  this will help and tahts why i am doing this for my dad 

coloCan
Posts: 1870
Joined: Oct 2009

signaling in cancer,maybe

http://news.rpi.edu/update.do

 

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

only joking, but they have to put gas in the corporate jet and for all the conferences in exostic locations.

in big pharma defence, they do have a heart, they gave me $26000 worth of folfox for free on compassionate grounds early on when it was not covered by national health.

not sure if thats good or bad.

 

i have this love hate relationship with big pharma, i love the off label drugs the design so we can use them. that takes cash, researchers, testing etc etc.

i hate all the bad things they do.

i personally skip the big pharma issue and focus on my key care objectives, big pharma is a difficult target, dc vaccines are an easy medical product to implement i think.

its not a drug, its a therapy, so it does not really interfere with big pharma.

i can see a day, when all resections get a vaccine shot or shots, then if you recurr well it might be another vaccine, when that therapy is exhuasted if it fails, you may well progress to chemo folfox etc etc. its possible to change the mix of these therapies. it just makes so much sense to try immunotherapy as a 1st line not a last resort as you are accessing the immune system before its damaged.

hugs,

pete

ps i wonder why the american cancer society does not take a leadership role in this area, are we members of the society, are they obliged to listen to our concerns as members, do we have a vote, a voice as a community ? i wonder. no pressure, no hostility, just curious.

vinaykumar
Posts: 66
Joined: Dec 2012

i have been going through promising cancer treatment and came up with something called the GIFT / LIFT therapy which was thought to be the cure for cancer but the promised trails never materialsed in a big  way.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fvoices.yahoo.com%2Fcure-cancer-lift-treatment-now-entering-human-1617883.html&ei=PhEbUfjzOsSPrgfd7YCYCQ&usg=AFQjCNEp4ao86EuTGh6qJt4rdgG-WXM2pg&sig2=DkA0tqwJbkYd0mU6b7Fctg&bvm=bv.42261806,d.bmk

 

http://voices.yahoo.com/cure-cancer-lift-treatment-now-entering-human-1617883.html?cat=70

 

http://www.wakehealth.edu/Research/Tumor-Biology/Zheng-Cui,-MD-PhD.htm

 

it looks like this company (www.munogenics.com  ) is trying to do the trails but is short on funding again .....i wonder why such promising treatments are held up for funding 

 

 

now it seems this company is appealing for funds for research...

 

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/munogenics-g-i-f-t-project

renw's picture
renw
Posts: 282
Joined: Jan 2013

The CEO of any company has the responsibility to maximize the profits for its shareholders. Finding and releasing an effective cancer cure would be extremely bad for business when there are billions to make from ongoing chemo treatments.

I simply don't believe that if big pharma earning billions from chemo drugs had a cure for cancer that they would make it available. Hell, they probably have a cure already.

coloCan
Posts: 1870
Joined: Oct 2009

(but hold the bacon)

www.mayoclinic.org/news2013-rst/7303.html

and from the same source as the above,there's this

www.jci.org/articles/view/65188

(tho i have no idea what most of this one means)

 

tachilders's picture
tachilders
Posts: 315
Joined: Jun 2012

Believe me, if big pharma had a cure for cancer they would sell it.  Your market is still everyone who gets cancer, and if you had a vaccine that would prevent cancer, your market would be everyone in the world.  The money made off of a cure would be many times higher than treating cancer.

Tedd

Sundanceh's picture
Sundanceh
Posts: 4312
Joined: Jun 2009

If they can charge what they charge for treatments....how much do you think The Cure would cost?  You got it right....they could ask anything they wanted for it.  

In today's leaky world, how long do we really think The Cure would be kept a secret?  None of those people hiding the cure from everyone never had their loved ones or someone they know with cancer and not give them The Cure? 

We're that airtight as a society that we can closet that kind of information?

Here's really the big problem with all of this...The Cure isn't coming...not in the way that we expect it to...because Cure connotates this image of one size fits all...

Besides all of the various strains of any individual cancer...like adeocarcinoma vs signet cell vs lynch....we can't even cure one of these...how are we possibly going to cure all of the subsets within each cancer....all the way up and down the cancer line?

And even if we get that right...it will always boil down to the same argument...We All React Differently...and as such any positive response would vary individual by individual.

What will probably happen is that some form of treatment will be created that works on some of us - but not everyone. 

The individuality of each individual will be the deciding factor as to who responds and who does not.

Something better, something different....but not one End All - Be All...

But there is not going to be one "blanket effect" treatment that you take and then voila.

 

 

coloCan
Posts: 1870
Joined: Oct 2009

to over and over again continue to destroy this planet; there is NO unpolluted air,water or soil anywhere and this is sixty years after "Silent Spring"!Research what GMOs are already doing to every life form that comes in contact with these gov't approved poisons (EXCEPT the insects they were meant to kill,whhich are adapting,like cancer cells do under chemo sometimes), which will also cause cancer as more people become more exposed to them.....Cancer is too complex for there to be one,sole cure,if you ask me

tachilders's picture
tachilders
Posts: 315
Joined: Jun 2012

The most likely "cure" will be a completely customized vaccine made specifically against your specific cancer type.  Of course, that currently would take over a year to develop, and would likely cost close to a million dollars to develop, even if it could be developed.  The main problem is that our cancer cells are able to avoid detection by the immune system as foreign, and thus are not targeted for death like they should be by the immune system.  Therefore, we need to develop a way to get the immune system to recognize these cancer cells as foreign and destroy them, which is where the viruses come in.  If you can get a virus to infect the cancer cell, the cancer cell will display the viral proteins/antigens on its surface, allowing the immune system to recognize the cancer cell as foreign and destroy it.  Right now, we simply don't have a virus available that will infect only cancer cells, and every type of cancer cells.  The beauty of a cancer vaccine is that the immune system has memory, so if the cancer cell ever comes back, the immune system will recognize it and kill it all over again.  Unfortunately, we are likely 10 or more years from this technolgy being readily available and approved for use by FDA (might be closer to 20 years or never if we can't get a vaccine that works broadly enough)....

 

My company is currently working on an antibody therapy to treat canine (dog) lymphoma, similar to Removab and anti-lymphoma antibodies for humans that are being worked on.  Actually, another animal health company just released an anti-lymphoma antibody for dogs, but i haven't seen the data on how well it works.  Part of the problem is that many studies for these therapies are run on people that have failed every other therapy, and are near death with completely shot immune systems.

Tedd

coloCan
Posts: 1870
Joined: Oct 2009

(tho here not with cancer)

http://med.stanford.edu/ism/2013/february/dirt.html

 

 

 

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

lets call it super ndv, the i have has been mutated

its used to infect all my tumour cells, the vaccine is trained to go after and eat ndv tagged cells. its working right now i pray, i get the cea score tomorrow.

ted, lets run the study on us, before we get close to the end.

i think its worth a shot mate, i hope i see you or any healthy colorectal tourists to try some immunotherapy before hardcore systemic chemo.

i could type 100 pages about whats going down each day, the science, the logistics, its all fun, challenging and rewarding. it keeps my mind away from anything scary.

the intensity to pull these therapies together is extreme. thats the hardest thing i think about my little path, its bloody hard.

i watched soccer tonight in the smokers bar with a friendly bunch of germans. they bought my a schnaps, i had to skull it. it was good.

the first schanp in a long time. going off the air for a fews days, driving into clinics, exploring the forests and saunas, and helping my first cancer friend goto duderstadt, i catch up with you guys when i am back online. i am giving them some gcmaf yogurt for a week, i got heaps.

hugs,

pete

vinaykumar
Posts: 66
Joined: Dec 2012

here is another approach being tried out

 

http://www.cancerresearch.org/real-stories/scientists/jeffrey-chou-making-colorectal-cancer-more-vulnerable-to-immune-control/

 

http://cancerimmunity.org/v13p3/

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