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starting deathcap mushrooms, anyone else ? any thoughts ? be kind !

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3151460/?tool=pubmed

from the conclusion

This therapy does not affect the activity of somatic cells, especially the immune cells. Amanitin stops the activity of the tumor cells, and then they lyse and migrate. Thus, homeopathic dilutions from A. phalloides offer a strong tool for the therapy of cancer.

its $150 per month, i will try this for a few months.

any comments about the paper, anyone else tried this ?

hugs,
Pete

smokeyjoe
Posts: 1428
Joined: Feb 2011

Sounds extremely dangerous to me if it's in the wrong hands. Who will be giving this to you and monitoring you?? From what I read it can be extremely toxic to your liver. Researchers attached it to an anti-body in mouse trials....how can they possibly know how much to give you?

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

thanks for the warning. i will ask the doctor about monitoring my liver.

my friends mum has been on it , she is 70 and kicking pancreatic cancers ass.

She is a great fighter, but i got a few years on her.

I want to see if it can kick colorectals butt as well.

if this therapy is the one that saves or kills me, at least it won't technically be cancer related.

as craig says, and many now do as well.

"time will tell"

hugs,
Pete

ps what sounds more sexy death by chemo or death by deathcap mushrooms ?
obviously because of my vegan tendencies i prefer the mushroom.

pps i am not technically a vegan because now i am having sheeps brains, sea cucumbers and organic eggs. at least one of the three sounds normal.

janie1
Posts: 753
Joined: Apr 2011

Pete,
Are u starting on chemo, too?
And would you do this new therapy at same time as chemo.
What it's doing for your friend's pancreatic ca is quite something.
Keep us posted. If u go on chemo, what will you keep doing as far as the alternatives, or is that still to be determined?
As smokey said in Pepe's thread, wonder what xeloda & Celebrex would do, instead of xeloda &Celebrex avastin?
I've always been a little afraid of Avastin......and my onc has never suggested it.
Who knows. The celebrex is a cox-2 inhibitor, but is there enough data on it......not sure.
Do any of your docs know anthing about the celebrex combination?
I like to get a sampling of docs opinions.
Thanks!!!

janie1
Posts: 753
Joined: Apr 2011
janie1
Posts: 753
Joined: Apr 2011
John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

Re:
"its $150 per month, i will try this for a few months"

Trying it for "a few months" won't prove much, since they have
taken nearly two years before seeing any serious indication of
any possible value in fighting cancerous tumors.

"At the beginning of therapy, 1.26×105 leukocytes/μL blood
occurred, after a duplication time of 21 months 2.52×105
leukocytes/μL blood would have been expected. With the amanita
therapy, a value of 1.43×105/μL is achieved, indicating that over
a duplication time the cell count could be kept relatively
constant, presumably elongating the life span of the patient
without severe side effects."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3151460/?tool=pubmed

As you can see, the use didn't eliminate the tumor, it just slowed
down it's growth by less than .3.......

I guess at $150 per month for two years it might be worth an
extra few weeks of life to someone that has something really
important to do in that last few breaths... I likely won't fully
realize the importance of that, until I get to that point?

Pete... I really wish I could be of help to you, but aside from just
providing information about the value of Traditional Chinese Medicine,
and perhaps trying my best to get cancer victims to learn more
about it, is all I can do.

TCM, in the hands of an experienced TCM practitioner, can
nearly work miracles.

It's unfortunate, but I have met so many individuals that claim to
have tried TCM and said it did no good..... When after speaking
with them for a bit, I realized they had never experienced true
Traditional Chinese Medicine, much less know anything about
the concept or science behind it.

Rather than taking the time to learn, they prefer to buy trendy
and costly "alternatives" that don't do much to extend life,
or make one any healthier than ingesting a bowl of chicken soup.

I wish you well my friend, just as I always have. I truly wish
I could be of more help, though.

My best,

John

smokeyjoe
Posts: 1428
Joined: Feb 2011

Pete I went to your blog....I cant seem to find or open your scan or scan results....something about google doctor and an error. Where can I see this, I'm curious.

Details are of vital importance

Each antibody is linked to between four and eight toxin molecules. Amanitin is regarded as very suitable for this purpose. It is small enough not to be recognized as foreign by immune cells, while it is also robust enough to lend itself to chemical conjugation. "When developing toxin-conjugated antibodies you have to take an awful lot of things into account," Moldenhauer explains. "The cancer cell has to regularly take the target molecule including the attached antibody into its interior, for this is the only place where the poison can act. In the cell's interior, the poison needs to detach from the antibody or else it will not be effective. At the same time it is absolutely vital that it does not get lost while it is being carried through the body, because this could cause severe adverse side effects."

The dosage of the amanitin antibody needs to be determined with the utmost care. One problem is that liver cells are extremely sensitive to the fungal toxin; another is that other healthy cells carry the EpCAM molecule as well and are therefore endangered. However, the results obtained in mice give reason to be optimistic, according to Gerhard Moldenhauer: "Even at high doses we have not detected any organ damage in the animals. We therefore expect that there is a sufficient therapeutic window for a dosage that kills cancer cells while leaving healthy tissue unaffected."

very worried husband
Posts: 86
Joined: Feb 2011

Re your comments about TCM
''TCM, in the hands of an experienced TCM practitioner, can
nearly work miracles.''

Yes, That is 100% True.
You need to find the right doctor as there are quite a lot of imposters unfortunately. I never trusted TCM until I went for the first time with my wife. And was amazed to see the doctor after checking pulse and tongue told her if she is doing chemo?

very worried husband
Posts: 86
Joined: Feb 2011

Sorry to hear about your recurrence. I love your stamina. You are an inspiration to many here. You may not remember me, but I was a regular on this site last year, when my 25 years old wife was diagnosed with 3b Colon cancer. We are blessed that everything is moving in the right direction. My wife is still NED.
As she is chinese, She is using some TCM. I just want you to look at two stuff, one is called mushroom from Tibet ( I will ask my wife the english name of this mushroom) , and second one is ''Kalonji oil''.
Research it, and discuss it with your doctor.
PM me if you need further information. It may not work for you or others, but It did work for us.

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

Had to look that up, very surprised to see it's Nigella Sativa, I ordered it from the UK and it was stolen en-route.

Nigella sativa oil; HDACi + angiogenisis inhibitor + IL-6 and IL-8 inhibitor, suppresses NF-kappa-B. (from my notes)

Found in Tutankhamun's tomb.

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 956
Joined: Oct 2010

Hard to say what the homeopathic dose is, at 15 drops of a D4 dilution.

D4 is "one part per 10,000 of the mother tincture". Who knows what the mother tincture is - say one part of a mushroom soaked in 2-10 parts of 50 proof alcohol for a week or two and decanted ???

Let's say extraction of active ingredients is 0.2% of solution.
15 drops ~ 15 x 0.05 grams ~ 3/4 of 1 mL or 0.75 grams
0.75 grams x 0.0001 (D4) x 0.002 (tincture) = 0.15 micrograms active ingredient
3 times daily = 0.45 micrograms active ingredient per day

Let's say extraction of active ingredients is 10% of solution (total dissolution at 1:10).
15 drops ~ 15 x 0.05 grams ~ 3/4 of 1 mL or 0.75 grams
0.75 grams x 0.0001 (D4) x 0.1 ("tincture" as 10% solution) = 7.5 micrograms active
3 times daily = 22.5 micrograms active ingredient per day

Not much, even in mushroom toxins, "bad" usually measured in milligrams.

steved
Posts: 836
Joined: Apr 2004

Most preparations of a. Phyllo ides seem to be 7c-14c so diluted to at least 10 to the power of 14 or more. At these level the likelihood of any remaining active ingredients become unlikely and at the highest dilutions you are pretty confident you are getting water with nothing more than a 'memory' of the original substance (which is one of the principles that homeopathy does promote and rely on and not just me being a cynical doc!)

So there is some new maths for you to do taans;)

Steve

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 956
Joined: Oct 2010

Pete's Riede paper mentions the a. Phylloides remedy as "D4" (1/10000 of mother tincture or liquor) and some other Reide prostate cancer papers mention "D2"(1/100 of mother tincture or liquor). Starting from zero prior awareness and that holistic and nutritional practices are sometimes licensed as homeopathic, I am not absolutely sure that Riede is being "classically homeopathic" with pure water, especially if he started with some concentrate. Reide is/was apparently a real biochemist in the 1970s-1990s verging on notability.

Lesser dilutions in homeopathy could be a smokescreen played either way, as a mystery meat active or a classically impure water - high dilutions, say over 6c-8c, effectively being pure water for non viable chemicals (not going to deal with hypothetical small/single organisms).

No new math for me. Beyond 8c, about beyond the lowest observable or allergen sensible limits of the worst toxins depending on volume, I round off to zero. I don't play around with homeopathy - you know me, regular doctors sometimes look a little homeopathic to me ;)

John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

A neighbor suggested it was all psychosomatic, since all of the
substances are diluted to the state of distilled water.

Yup, ok...

But he couldn't explain how animals; horses to rabbits, parrots
to chickens, seem to respond to homeopathic treatments.

Our five year old rabbit was dying of a major intestinal tumor.
The VET gave her a shot of some homeopathic remedy, saying
that it will either work, or it won't. Our rabbit lived on for another
five years, and finally died...but with no signs of a tumor.

Sometimes what can be scientifically explained fails all expectations,
and what can't be explained.... works.

Is it all a trick of the mind, or is the mind lacking comprehension?

Best of health,

John

ron50's picture
ron50
Posts: 1279
Joined: Nov 2001

The bunny just had gas:) Ron.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

Hi Ron,

We should join that rabbit up here.
After all we are all hot air experts.

Think about it! If you laugh that's great, If not don't worry be happy.
Hugs
Pete

Ps come down to Sydney for a sauna, just did an hour, now doing highly Coffee.

smokeyjoe
Posts: 1428
Joined: Feb 2011

John....wish I knew what your vet gave your bunny, we had to euthanize ours about a month before I was diagnosed. Was your rabbit white, apparently white rabbits are susceptible to cancer...our bunny had a small bump on his flank one day, figured it was a spider bite or bug bite of some kind, off to vet we went, she figured same thing but took a biopsy, just a tiny little bump like a pimple was cancer.

John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

Ours was a Dutch bunny (black and white).

They actually took an xray and saw the tumor! But ya'know...
like Ron says.. It coulda' been a turnip, for all I know..

Buns was real ill, and when you have a house rabbit, you learn
what their symptoms are pretty quick. I thought it was a hair ball,
but the Doc said no, and explained why it wasn't.

We didn't pay much attention to the name of the med, since
we were just preparing for the worst and didn't expect it to work.

We were in the process of moving to Florida (from Ma.), and
the paperwork got lost in the shuffle. Buns lasted quite awhile,
and in great health! Most rabbits live between 3 and 5 years,
so ours did pretty good for itself....and maybe with some help
from that "worthless distilled water" the medical professionals
say not to bother with.

According to my WM physicians, I'm just another lucky fur bearing animal.

(I think I'll hippity-hop on outta' here with that....)

Be well!

John

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

Not starting big chemo yet!

Still putting together the plan.

Just curious to see if Qigong, tallberg, navy, sauna, Coffee, juices etc etc etc
Can retard progression.

Got to see onc 3 Wednesday and hipec surgeon asap whenever.

Started a big physical and spiritual cleanup.

My dear wife has ocd and hoarded, my cancer has not helped, but today 3 close friendsl and I started the house cleanup.
It's a big job

Maybe a clean and friendly home might make some difference

Thanks for all the informative comments and research.

My csn time is reduced while my sauna time is up.

Trying new detox for platinum, now everyone whose enjoyed folfox should at least be curious.

Hugs,
Pete

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