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sulforaphane may help lower circulating tumour cells

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

only read this post if you have troule getting to sleep, or you were woken from a deep sleep with nappy problems or a massive coughing fit or both.

this articles cures insomnia.

so i have been hammering broccoli powder from my local supplier, i got this study from them today. its a bit complex to say the least.

i got a study today indicating sfn is effective at lowering ctc's, and a low dose of sfn. alt doctor mentioned the thorne version is longer lasting in the blood stream, need to check this. so if sfn lowers crc counts then its cheaper than all the iv c being pumped, it maybe more effective also given the antioxidant issue discussed earlier.

for me its win win, even if cea rises are false positive ie not tumour related then most of my strategies are anti ctc and met anyway.

The fulltext is very complex, i follow it a little, but the message from my research friend is clear sfn is good, even low dose at helping keep ctc's low.

i suspect the pathway's are the similar between breast cancer and colorectal in terms of the action of sulphorane blocking ctc's

Authors:
Address: Department of Molecular and Cellular Biology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, TX 77030-3498, USA.
Journal:

Publication:
Free Text: Wnt and mammary stem cells: hormones cannot fly wingless.

abstract
The mammary stem cell and its local microenvironment are central for the maintenance of proper tissue homeostasis during normal development. Defining the hierarchical organization of the epithelial subtypes in the mammary gland and the molecular pathways guiding their development has begun to provide a framework for understanding how cancer stem cells sustain the progression and heterogeneity of breast cancers. The Wnt pathway plays a fundamental role in multiple adult stem cells, as well as in orchestrating proper mammary gland development and maintenance. These processes are intricately guided by the influence of systemic hormones and local factors. Alterations in Wnt signaling can skew the homeostatic balance of the mammary epithelium to drive malignant progression; however, complexities of Wnt pathway components present a challenge in understanding their physiological function.
Copyright © 2010 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

basically this link explains the basics and why i take sulforaphane 3 times a day, most days.
http://www.enduracell.com/enduracell_sulforaphane_qa

janie1
Posts: 753
Joined: Apr 2011

I have been eating a lot of cabbage and cauliflower, but can't muster broccoli.

I want to order a broccoli sprout supplement from LEF.........but here's the dilemma. It is so darn hot here (weather), and I don't want to risk ordering supplements and having the package on a hot truck all day long before it gets to my house. Surely 120 degrees can't be good. What a bummer. Don't know anywhere I could buy it locally.

Thanks for this post. It reminded me that this is something that I wanted to take.

Congrats on your only 1 point cea rise (on the other post). That's great! (I still have to read that whole post)

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

janie and all,

this is not just about low dose sfn reducing ctc's, its about the full dose sfn being anticancer. see the q and a above for details on cancer benefit.

this is so important to alternative cancer therapies. sfn and mcp and vit c are my current favourites.

as its been patiently explained to me , the big sentence from the pubmed study

"This study confirms that consumption of broccoli supplements devoid of myrosinase activity does not produce equivalent plasma concentrations of the bioactive isothiocyanate metabolites compared to broccoli sprouts. This has implications for people who consume the recommended serving size (1 pill) of a broccoli supplement and believe they are getting equivalent doses of isothiocyanates."

please do some homework on the lef broccoli sprout powder, you may not get the benefits you expect or are paying for. email them to confirm this.

now the "sgs" marketing stuf says sfn is activated in the gut, but the study implies its not measured in plasma, so i am taking the conservstive alternative path and buying premium quality broccoli sprout powder.

most have an inactive form of myrosinase, you need the active form to get the benefits as its been explained to me by the supplier i use enduracell.

quality and quantity are the big issue on all these supplements. i believe getting the benefits of sfn is a life and death decision for me.

sulforanphane is one of my personal faourite nutrigenomic supplements, i would ask lef, if you do post the answer here.

see the text from a big us supplier, now they imply

my understanding in best faith, i am erring on the side of caution, as the clinical study i was refered to showed inactive myroninase did not translate to effective levels in plasma.

http://www.sgs-broccoli.com/sgs-advantage/science-behind-sgs-2

Sulforaphane belongs to the class of chemicals known as isothiocyanates. Studies demonstrated that plants normally contain insignificant quantities of the isothiocyanate sulforaphane, but rather contain its glucosinolate precursor known as glucoraphanin (SGS).

These compounds are believed to be produced by plants largely for defense against predators (Fahey 1997). The heat-stable, water-soluble glucosinolates invariably co-exist in plant cells with the enzyme myrosinase, which hydrolyzes glucoraphanin to sulforaphane but is normally inactive because it is physically segregated from the glucosinolates. Upon chewing or food preparation, the enzyme is freed and the formation of sulforaphane takes place. But even if myrosinase is inactivated by heating (e.g., cooking), the microflora of the human gastrointestinal tract carries out this conversion (Shapiro 1998; 2001).

This enzymatic conversion is critical, because sulforaphane is the biologically active form of these compounds. On the other hand, there is considerable evidence that glucoraphanin is probably an efficient precursor vehicle for delivery of sulforaphane in animals and in humans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21816223

Bioavailability and inter-conversion of sulforaphane and erucin in human subjects consuming broccoli sprouts or broccoli supplement in a cross-over study design.
Clarke JD, Hsu A, Riedl K, Bella D, Schwartz SJ, Stevens JF, Ho E.
Source
Department of Nutrition and Exercise Sciences, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR 97331, USA.
Abstract
Broccoli consumption may reduce the risk of various cancers and many broccoli supplements are now available. The bioavailability and excretion of the mercapturic acid pathway metabolites isothiocyanates after human consumption of broccoli supplements has not been tested. Two important isothiocyanates from broccoli are sulforaphane and erucin. We employed a cross-over study design in which 12 subjects consumed 40 g of fresh broccoli sprouts followed by a 1 month washout period and then the same 12 subjects consumed 6 pills of a broccoli supplement. As negative controls for isothiocyanate consumption four additional subjects consumed alfalfa sprouts during the first phase and placebo pills during the second. Blood and urine samples were collected for 48h during each phase and analyzed for sulforaphane and erucin metabolites using LC-MS/MS. The bioavailability of sulforaphane and erucin is dramatically lower when subjects consume broccoli supplements compared to fresh broccoli sprouts. The peaks in plasma concentrations and urinary excretion were also delayed when subjects consumed the broccoli supplement. GSTP1 polymorphisms did not affect the metabolism or excretion of sulforaphane or erucin. Sulforaphane and erucin are able to interconvert in vivo and this interconversion is consistent within each subject but variable between subjects. This study confirms that consumption of broccoli supplements devoid of myrosinase activity does not produce equivalent plasma concentrations of the bioactive isothiocyanate metabolites compared to broccoli sprouts. This has implications for people who consume the recommended serving size (1 pill) of a broccoli supplement and believe they are getting equivalent doses of isothiocyanates.
Published by Elsevier Ltd.

Lespauldude
Posts: 10
Joined: Aug 2012

Hi Pete - Glad to hear of yet another patient who is extolling the virtues of sulforaphane. I have been taking supplemental sulforaphane (along with mustard seed pills for the myrosinase) as well as sprouting my own broccoli sprouts for 3 years (almost). I am a Stage I pancreatic cancer survivor and Sulforaphane tops my list of natural compounds. I call this stuff the "Swiss Army Knife" of cancer compounds. I just wanted to state that it also obliterates Pancreatic Cancer Stem Cells as well. I have been researching this compound extensively over the last few years, and am amazed at it's abilities. The sheer number of pathways that it inhibits and how it handles knocked-down/mutant p-53 tumor supressor genes is mind boggling. It has gotten the lions share of research focus over the last three years and there are many clinical trials in-flight as I write this. If you truly want to get a daily theraputic dose, combine supplemental sulforaphane with broccoli sprout ingestion. The bio-availability and systemic tissue saturation has been proven in many studies, with humans no-less. Truly the go-to anti-cancer weapon. We all know how important it is to eradicate CSC's and this one does the job (and Big Pharma hates it).

Scott

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

"In summary, we found that R-SFN, like many other dietary supplements, exhibits a hormetic behavior; it is able to induce biologically opposite effects at different doses."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21465338

So in low doses it might protect CSC's, how much are you taking Scott?

We have a 1 kilo bag of organic broccoli sprouts, our son refuses to eat them coz they are too 'spicy'.

It's also synergistic with Quercetin.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

hi scott,

yes its nice to know a few others believe.

lets get serious, have you heard about the argument SFN gets shafted by vit c and other antioxidants in high volumes ?

thats technical for they are mutually exclusive to some extent.

tony,

so tony, just get the powder and hide it in a shake of some type for your son.

mate thanks for commenting, that word hormetic is cool. we are actually on the enterprise. you can be spook, now i am skinny i have to be bones. i hope you are familiar with star trek.

i take 3 neat teaspoons a day.
each teaspoon = neat teaspoon 7/8 = 1 gram powder = 30mg glucraphanin which yeilds 12mg sulforaphane.

this was the dosage recommended by the research scientist.

hugs,
Pete

Lespauldude
Posts: 10
Joined: Aug 2012

I have not heard about high-dose anti-oxidants/Vitamin C and the effect on SFN. Thats a new one for me. Do you have a link that I can reference or should I just "dive" into Google-mode? I think the problem with the powder SFN supplements is the absense of the myrosinase enzyme. It may be a good idea to have some mustard with it (you could also use horseradish but that's a bit over the top for me). I'm glad we all met as I've been searching for people with the same focus on SFN as I have.

Cheers!

Scott

Lespauldude
Posts: 10
Joined: Aug 2012

The article that you have the link for seems focused on MSC's(Mesenchymal Stem Cells)and
the effects of synthetic Sulforaphane. MSC's are adult stem cells found in bone marrow. The research seems to imply that the low dose protects the MSC's (the "normal" stem cells relative to human aging) and NOT Cancer Stem Cells (CSC's). At least that's the way that I'm reading this. All of the research that I have come across is specific to the SFN knockdown of CSC's via pathway signaling supression. Perhaps my brain is a bit slow this morning - check out this excellent research article on CSC's (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3365812/). Perhaps collectively we can figure this stuff out easier. My brain locks up after a while from trying to disseminate all of this material. I grow my own sprouts (3 large mason jars going at one time) and consume around 8 oz./day (4 oz AM/4 oz PM). I also take a BroccoSinolate extract (600 mg - I'm not sure of the SFN amount). I used to take quercetin supplements until I found out that they really are not bioavailable in the supplement form (perhaps di-hydrate form is better but not by much). I get quercetin from Lovage tea. Without having a research group at my beck and call, I have no clue if what I am consuming is enough. I think it is but who knows. research tends to lean toward lower doses as having efficacy - which is a good thing. I take many more supplements/compounds but again, Sulforaphane is at the top of my list.

Cheers!!!

Scott

Kings Park, NY

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

i was just passing on the my researcher friend, company owner who sells enduracell. so yes clear vested interest there.

but anyway her take on it was sfn reduces the csc. i defer to her expertese. i was on it anyway. it just seemed another benefit.

the serious issue here is how much active SFN are you getting from the sprouts ?
from the supplements ?

the enduracell scientist claims they guarantee bioavail sfn. i did look at the papers and it seemed her product had more active sfn then what was available on iherb. so its the issue of reliability of supply.

i too used to buy the b sprouts, but you apparently have to harvest them at the correct time to get maximum sfn.

i am on activated quercetin source naturals, as well as the organic high veg and fuit diet. it seems apples, cranberries are the way to go. ursolic acid as well in these.

i could not find its chemical type but i hope its bioavail. if not i got my diet, its not particularly expensive the source naturals has other goodies in it as well.

hugs,
pete

ps http://www.raysahelian.com/quercetin.html

pps http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014579397013677
the discussion i found interesting, the long half life and the need for sugar to assist absorption and the bilary reabsorption characteristic. who said supplements was easy.
no wonder the onc's stay away.

Lespauldude
Posts: 10
Joined: Aug 2012

Thanks for the links, etc. From my records/research, I obtain @ 250 mg of SFN for each 4 oz. serving of my 3-4 day old sprouts (that's the age that contains the absolute highest amount per weight). In fact, ambient temperature makes a BIG difference in regard to the amount of SFN that is ceated in the sprouting process (the higher the temp - the more is created in the sprout). So at a minimum, I figure that I am ingesting 500 mg of SFN on a daily basis. I believe that SFN does not totally leave the body for 2-3 days as well (after peak plasma levels are obtained of course). As far as Quercetin, you might also check out Lovage leaf as a source (it comes in as #2 on the list) - see http://www.worldofmolecules.com/antioxidants/quercetin.htm. I'm glad we are talking about this because I just realised that I have a bag of daikon radish seeds (myrosinase source) that I totally forgot about. My wife thinks I'm off the deep end with all of these sprouts of mine! By the way, are you over in the UK?

Scott

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

its great to talk about this i agree.
where do you source the sprout seeds ?
i am glad you are getting heaps!

you are off the deep end, but thats ok so am i.

these sprouts will save a few lives one day, hopefully ours and many others. maybe someone else reading this post.

i will look up lovage leaf also! where do you get lovage leaves ?

i will also read diakon radish seeds?!

i am in sydney australia.

hugs,
Pete

coloCan
Posts: 1845
Joined: Oct 2009

http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2012/02/07/1535-7163.MCT-11-0999.abstract

aacr has some interesting stuff, by the way

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

always interesting, so if our friends here were going to have some radiation, they might benefit from a cup of special tea.

these extra bit and pieces the onc are not allowed to tell us about, well i am just glad we share the tips and tricks here. we goto write that crc survival guide using every alternative therapy with a shread of evidence.

when i get some rfa on the lung met, i will have some tea before hand. a token gesture but worthwhile.

hugs,
Pete

Lespauldude
Posts: 10
Joined: Aug 2012

I use Honokiol myself, for it's effect on Pancreatic cancer cells. It's a compound found in Magnolia bark that has proven efficacy against many cancer lines. By the way, it seems as if it is effective against CSC's w/o radiation as well: http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/72/8_MeetingAbstracts/1007. Yet another natural compound that kicks ass!!

Lespauldude
Posts: 10
Joined: Aug 2012

Pete -

I obtain my sprout seeds (organic) from http://www.buywholesalecheap.com/Organic-Broccoli-Sprouting-Seeds-25-Lbs-Organic-Edible-Seed-Gardening-Hydroponics-Growing-Salad-Sprout-Food-Storage-Brocolli-Sprouts-Contain-Sulforaphane_p_176.html. My source for Lovage leaf is: http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/bulkherb/l.php#h_lov_l. Mountainroseherbs has Daikon radish seeds as well. Stay well.

Scott

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

i will order these tonight, no point stuffing round.
hugs,
pete

Lespauldude
Posts: 10
Joined: Aug 2012

Pete -

Just caught this today coming over the news wires. Amazing........

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/250559.php

Cheers!!

Scott

steve19550214
Posts: 2
Joined: Sep 2012

hi.pete
raw food diet really can lower your ctc number.i have been juicing in pass 4 years after surgery on june 2008 for colon stage 3 following 6 months chemo. everything look good till last month.my lab work showed i have 2 clusters of ctc cells. it is more than 10 cells. my oncologist said it is the sign of recurrence. and said if ctc keep rising. he want me to do chemo -avastin....even cancer not spread to any organ yet. i was so afraid cause once you have recurrence, then you are on stgaed 4. my wife told me the problem i have is i eat too much street food on lunch and dinner.i need to change my body PH- from acid to alkaline and she want me to change the diet to raw food. vegi. only and no more outside food. so i drink 3 cups of juicing (750cc)for breakfast. and salad for lunch, drink another 3 cups of juicing in the afternoon. dinner is a small portion of salad, if you feel hungry, you can eat brown rice and sprouting beans(cook)with wakame seedweed. but most important, you have to had at least 4 bowel moments everyday. you can have fiber 2-3 times to help. GOOD STUFF IN AND BAD STUFF OUT.THAT IS THE THEORY.today i have my lab report back. and guess what? my ctc number from 2 clusters of cell to ZERO. only 4 weeks!

Lespauldude
Posts: 10
Joined: Aug 2012

Cograts on the good news regarding your ctc levels. Juicing is a good thing indeed. I still don't see how it is physiologically possible to change one's PH in the body though. Never could understand that, seeing that the body regulates the PH balance within such a narrow range and adjusts to keep it there (see: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html). But nonetheless, I was curious as to your blood work protocol. Do you always have a CTC count done? I ask because I have not heard much of that (looking at CTC counts) but I think it's a great way to see how things are going. I might just ask my Onc if I can get one done. Thanks!!

Stay well

Scott

steve19550214
Posts: 2
Joined: Sep 2012

hi, scott
thank you for your concern.
http://www.acidalkalinediet.com/alkaline-diet-for-cancer
yes, i always have my CTC count done every 6 months. it has been normal(zero).till last month.
following might help you:

juicing, drink 6 cups each day-1500cc.
eat salad and cooked brown rice with sprouting bean on lunch and dinner
20 minutes walking between 11 am to 2 pm under sun
8 cup of distilled water
shower with hot water 3 min. then 30 second of cold water repeat 3 times
3-4 times bowel movement, fiber can help, but make sure drink lots of water
30-45 minutes rest after lunch
always appreciated, and pray.

Lespauldude
Posts: 10
Joined: Aug 2012

Surprise, surprise!! Evgen is really pushing their synthetic form of Sulforaphane (Sulforadex). I'm fine with that, it's just another example of natures answer to cancer being copied for profit. As long as it doesn't take 10 years to enter the pipeline. Interesting how they are coupling with Kraft Foods on this.

http://www.evgen.com/news/EvgenNews11July12.pdf

http://www.evgen.com/news-02-03-10.shtml

Cheers!!

Scott

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