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Pete ... the language of some of your posts ...

devotion10's picture
devotion10
Posts: 642
Joined: Jan 2010

When I read language like this from one of your last posts ... I am confused and saddened.

"just because we a desperately fighting for our lives in the presence of a few blood sucking scumbag conartist charletane doctors around does not mean they can out smart me and my many committed friends. we are simply smarter than them and i firmly believe working together, sharing our research our experiences we can improve our quality of life and survival odds. and with luck send some of the bastards to gaol or at least bankruptcy."

I know that the burdens of having cancer are very, very difficult and I honor and respect that you have a right to a full range of emotions that the burden of cancer present. I know that sometimes these emotions are dark and still need to be expressed ... I just sometimes do not understand the vitriolic nature of some of your posts toward mainstream medical procedures.

You have asked the board to be open to your alternative views and I think that you have been treated respectfully even though many most likely are not seeing alternative treatments themselves. Your ideas seem welcomed and I am sure read with interest.

It seems to me that what we might work towards is a way to respect all manner of treatment -- you know, perhaps find a way to seek your alternative treatments and discuss them without condemning those who both seek more mainstream treatments and those who treat with more mainstream treatments.

I know individuals well who are both nurses and oncologists and none are " blood sucking scumbag conartist charlatan doctors". They would be deeply offended by such a description. The vast majority of these individuals devote their lives to helping folks on a very difficult journey with great compassion. I would hate to think that someone would want to "with luck send some of the bastards to gaol or at least bankruptcy."

I come to this site for inspiration and support as the caretaker of my husband who has Stage 4 colorectal cancer with mets to the liver and lung. He has had palliative chemotherapy for the past 30 months. I also help him by preparing organic foods, encouraging exercise, juicing, massage, and a generally a healthy lifestyle. We live every day as loving and as in the moment as we can.

I know that I could just ignore the parts of your post, any post, that might offend or irritate me ... but, I just sometimes think you are asking for perhaps more than you give .... I am seeking open-mindedness and mutual respect for all choices. I mean, could you imagine if those that are helping you with your alternative treatments were described as "blood sucking scumbag conartist charlatan doctors". I think on some level you would be outraged.

Maybe you could think just a bit about this. You seem like an extraordinary person who is very passionate about the path you have taken, but please always consider ... other may be just as passionate about their paths. Language is powerful.

With respect to you -- Cynthia

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4673
Joined: May 2005

Well put Cynthia...

Helen321's picture
Helen321
Posts: 783
Joined: May 2012

It can easily be a brawl=) I think Pete was aiming that comment specifically to Jeff to support Jeff's feeling of being "pumped full of poison that's not working". It's all in the context. I like Pete's feistiness. I'm in this only 5 months now and I already get the "us against them" feeling from my doctors. I'm the one with the disease in my body and to them I'm just another patient with a chart. I need them to help me live and they need me to help them make money (I'm sure they started out caring and some still do but in the end they're just people at a job with good days at work and bad days at work. Just like the rest of us). It's an odd relationship to have to depend on strangers to help you. I've recently realized, more than anything, I need to help me live, they're simply not going to do it unless I make sure they look at the details. The other day I went for my first visit at Sloan. The doctor sent the resident to take my info. I informed him of the spot on my ovaries. Somehow the spot on my ovaries was overlooked by all of us at the discussion portion. I was supposed to have it looked at by the original doctor during surgery which is now postponed. Sloan tells me they may have a different diagnosis after looking at the slides and disks. I was so focused on the change of diagnosis, I didn't think to address the spot at the moment. THANKFULLY someone on the boards sent me an email, you need to stop ignoring that spot and see a gyn oncologist right away before you start treatment (I've scheduled an appt. now, I can't thank her enough), so I call the doctors office, get his nurse (he never takes calls -yes I realize he's busy and don't expect to speak to him every time but when it's important, it would be nice) and she says what spot? And then he asks her what spot instead of talking to me? And then she says he'll have to look at your slides and disks. Wait, we're now at day 5 since my visit, you've ordered me chemo and radiation but you have yet to look at my slides and disks??? HELLO, my LIFE here! So I get the anger. I get why it can be so frustrating to deal with doctors and I get why people are seeking regular care plus alternatives. Colorectal cancer in particular is all about changing your eating habits, exercising and finding alternative lifestyle and at the same time working with medicine to find ways to get it out of your body. Good wording, bad wording, angry days, happy days, depressing days, they're all on here in some way. We all have them all. Everyone's in the same boat, we'd all just be brawling among ourselves while the rest of the world continues. In the end, we all just want to live.

janderson1964's picture
janderson1964
Posts: 1641
Joined: Oct 2011

I didnt mean to stir things up. I am just at a point where i am very frustrated with oncology. Maybe i am just unlucky when it comes to oncologist. I changed oncologist because i listened to my first onc like a fool and waited 14 months between scans because all of the radiation exposure. Well because i waited so long the tumor grew out of my liver and attached to my diaphram and abdominal wall. Then i had to set up an appointment with my surgeon because they couldnt find the phone number.

So i switched to a new onc at the NCI cancer center where i had all of my surgeries to integrate everything.

Its too long of a story to get into it all. I will just stop right here and say that we are all in the same boat and i didnt mean to get e eryone so fired up just because i want to vent so i will bite my tongue instead.

annalexandria's picture
annalexandria
Posts: 2263
Joined: Oct 2011

there was a pretty big conflict going on between supporters of mainstream medicine and supporters of the alternative approach. It really caught me off-guard because I'd been working with both an oncologist and a naturopath, and both doctors were very supportive (although not always 100% knowledgable) about the other's approach to cancer treatment. It never occurred to me that it had to be an "either/or" proposition until I ran into the mini-war that was going on here. I sure hope that kind of conflict doesn't flare up again. I think ultimately we're all on the same side, with the same enemy, and should be respectful of the choices made by other folk, even if they don't align with what we might choose for ourselves. There are fantastic docs on both sides of the debate (as well as any number of "charlatans", human nature being what it is), and I think the best ones are those who can be open-minded and use every available weapon in their quest to save our lives!

Helen321's picture
Helen321
Posts: 783
Joined: May 2012

Glad I missed that war, my brain hurts too much at this point for war. I'm reading the posts as going through good days and bad days with people in various stages of emotions. Anger being completely understood as one of them. I'm also trying to only chime in when I have something to give although sometimes, I just realize I'm out of my league and back away and just read. I am also doing a ton of reading about medical and alternatives. I'm going to do the chemo, I'm going to the the radiation, I'm going through the surgery again. I'm drinking almond milk, eating brocolli sprouts, eliminating white bread, trying melatonin, no more sugar, bye bye red meat, cut down fruit juice, eating the activia which still is a debate as to whether it's good or bad (to keep balance after all these colonoscopies and tests with all the indigestion and pain -thankfully it's working), going to do the massages (who knew my insurance even offered them) and that's just what I've done so far. I started getting sick and easily tired (not to mention the lack of sleep, gosh I love melatonin!) so I had to slow it down and make small changes and then do the next change. I do want to exercise but my understanding is I'm about to lose up to 40 pounds so I'm actually, for once in my adult life, afraid I'm going to be too thin. Although oxygen is supposed to be a great cancer beater so I guess I'll just have to be thin. Isn't that ironic, a woman fighting to keep the pounds on=) So give me all the info you've got whether it's medicine or alternative! I'm trapped in a battle and I'm in it to win it!

John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

Click on my name, then read my "blog" concerning Traditional Chinese Medicine.

If you're interested in "other options", take some time to learn about a science
that's been around for four thousand years, and continued being used today.

Billions upon billions of people have been served by this science, and quite
sucessfully!

If you need more info, send me a PM, but there should be more than
enough info at the blog to get you started.

There may be reason to fear cancer, but there should be much less
fear concerning the medicine to fight it.

There -IS- another way!

Best wishes,

John

Helen321's picture
Helen321
Posts: 783
Joined: May 2012

Hi John, Last year (precancer) I went into a store where they had traditional chinese medicine for various ailments. I had just come from the dentist and the man offered me something for tooth swelling. Joke is I went in for some tylenol (which they also had) because I had a headache. I think I'll not only read your blog but stop in the store to see what they offer. I was reading recently that cancer is fairly new to China because they have added the western diet, although it did exist at some level believed to be connected to environmental causes. According to the article, it's gone up 86% in just a few years. I started to look at what we eat in America, and well it's not pretty. So cancer or not, I'm changing my diet and my kids are eating better too. My grandson will grow up on whole wheat and 7 grain breads. We were not one to eat McDonald's often but among us we had no problem eating an entire pack of oreos (or two) in one sitting. We also love white bread, red meat, sweet drinks, sugar cereals and the list goes on. My downfall is my sweet tooth. I don't smoke or drink but I can eat an entire bag of tootsie rolls. Eating sugar in moderation has been hard. I'm heading home now but I'll be checking out your blog when I log on again! I'm interested in getting better=) I'll take all the options I can get.

Sundanceh's picture
Sundanceh
Posts: 4300
Joined: Jun 2009

Environmenal is no doubt causing a huge surge in the numbers...the stories on the news have anything coming out of China to be full of lead in children's toys - to the bad ingredients in their sheetrock that were sickening homeowners and literally rusting the metal inside and outside people's homes - to the tainted pet food they shipped us that we feed our pets with...

Quality control seems to be a missing ingredient...

John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

Re:
"Last year (precancer) I went into a store where they had
traditional chinese medicine for various ailments. "

Well, let me begin by telling you that is -not- "Traditional
Chinese Medicine"!

Herbal products that are "pre-configured" (in pill form) are
called "Chinese Patent Medicine", and are usually provided
for "health maintenance", not as a curative.

"Traditional Chinese Medicine" (TCM) is an entire medical
science that has traversed almost four thousand years, encompassing
acupuncture, herbal treatments, energy centering exercises,
and other methods found to correct health system deficiencies.

The herbal compounds are prescribed and formulated for the
individual patient, unlike the arbitrary prescriptions of western
medicine practices. I.E.: Each patient is complex, and only after
a complete TCM exam and analysis is any remedy provided.

Any/all ailments and maladies are considered to be due to an
imbalance of organ chemicals, and the idea is... that once the
imbalance is corrected, the problem will be cured by one's
own body.

TCM herbal decoctions and/or treatments of any type are not
continued once the problem is corrected, unlike western medicine,
where the treatments only subdue the symptoms while the medication
is taken, and the real problem continues unrestricted.

Craig (Sundanceh) made some good points, but it should be noted
that most all products destined for USA import are made in factories
run by USA companies. They use inexpensive Chinese labor and
materials, all of which are ordered by the company to produce the
least expensive item for export. Lead paint is inexpensive, and the
ordering of it to produce a less expensive child's toy is the doing
of the one producing the toy, not the country it is produced in.

Re:
".....I was reading recently that cancer is fairly new to China
because they have added the western diet......"

Not actually. Cancer has always been part of Chinese health problems,
but until westernization and the westernizing of medical terminology,
cancer was just another lump... It was a tumor and treated as a
tumor, not as a special growth unlike other common tumors.

Aside from the population rising and China's attempt to control
that fast rising population growth, the cancer incidence numbers
(percentage-wise) also reflect the acceptance of western medicine's
term: "cancer" and the reporting of each case that it is indicated.

I suppose we should wonder why an out of control tumor is treated
any differently than a tumor that is not (yet) running rampant?

The prescription for herbal remedies to correct the growth of tumors
can be very different for each patient, but success in their control
has been well documented, although not according to the standards
of western medicine practices. It should seem odd, if not a self-serving,
proprietary example of western corporate rules and how they stifle
the promotion of what can hurt their profit margin..

(oops.... my personal, cynical mentality noted)(?)

Anyway.....

Eating well is never a bad thing, but many food items that are now
considered "bad", have been ingested by 80-100 year old individuals
for their entire lives. I am planning on adding more of those "bad"
ingredients as soon as I am finished typing this, just to play it safe!

I am now frying everything in pure butter and enjoying it 100%
more than that stupid Canola oil. My cholesterol is perfect (not that
I care), and now after reading about the Hazards of Canola Oil,
I am feeling -much- better as well!

A well-rounded diet is better for any living creature, than a single
item diet that omits the other food stuff that a body needs for it's
overall health. Humans were designed to eat meat, fish, foul, veggies
and fruits; eating only veggies, is to omit an entire food supply that
the body needs for it's proper survival.

As long anyone's immune system ignores a damaged/dying cell,
the individual will be susceptible to cancer. Wake up the immune
system; make it aware of the rogue cell by sensitizing it to the
chemicals of that rogue cell so it attacks it and destroys it, and
you have the cure for cancer.

There. 11pm. I am going to fry a pork chop, eat it, and go to bed.

Best of health,

John

Sundanceh's picture
Sundanceh
Posts: 4300
Joined: Jun 2009

"Although oxygen is supposed to be a great cancer beater..."

I would guess that right now if we were to run a test to check your oxygen saturation level (SPO2),that we would find your reading to probably be between 95-100....I've had two major lung surgeries and I sit between 95-97 routinely.

Alot of folks probably register 99-100 all the time - and there will be folks in that category who have cancer - and some don't.

So, if oxygen is such a great cancer beater, then the majority of us would have already passed away....our levels with or without cancer would be very similar...so, oxygen is not beating cancer - it is not a cancer beater.

Just wanted to clarify this...I know you're just getting started and there is a heap of misinformation out there - and this is one of the biggest misnomers there is out there.

Additionaly, I read last year that being a little overweight headed into chemo is actually a 'good thing' rather than being petite or real thin. If diet and nutrition become any kind of issue, the thin person has less reserves on which to feed from as opposed to someone who has a little more meat on the bones. And that's an advantage when it comes to losing weight.

Good luck

-Craig

Helen321's picture
Helen321
Posts: 783
Joined: May 2012

I'm about 20 pounds overweight so I'm good to go there. I'm not sure what you mean about oxygen levels. I've been reading that exercise plays a direct role in colorectal cancers both in prevention and while you have cancer. Eating habits and sitting habits play a large role. That oxygenating cells can prevent further mutation. Night shift workers who sit all the time are at higher risk especially those who do OT three times a week. I'm in both categories. Can you explain the saturation levels, I'll have to look that up. I don't know much about saturation levels of oxygen. I just know basic exercise and oxygen. I'm actually choosing not to exercise at the moment because I'm most likely about to lose a large amount of weight over the next six months.

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3402
Joined: Apr 2010

Wish I had of, they said I would, but alas.
Also, exercise will build up your muscles, improves your body function and is considered good against the colon cancer fight. I highly recommend it, even if it's just walking long walks, a few sit ups, bicycling, it's all good, easy to do and won't cause you weight loss (at least it hasn't for me, it's the diet too, and mine hasn't changed as of yet.)but the exercise I do to help my body.
Winter Marie

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4673
Joined: May 2005

It WILL rear its ugly head again and again and again. I've been seeing it for 8 years, I don't see it stopping.

Of course the vast majority of people here understand that there may be more than one way to beat cancer but this isn't about the vast majority.

There are those who are anti-this or anti-that. Some can't seem to understand or accept that cancer is very complex and there is no sure-fire cure (other than death by some other means). There's no Magic Bullet and (again) No One Size Fits All Approach (as much as we all probably wish there was...)

BUT... some have had success with a certain method so therefore it must be the only way it seems.
Some Mainstream followers and Some Alternative followers fall into this group. No one has the market cornered with this.
It seems very similar to religion in this aspect with it being not open to alternative paths or opinions by some.

Others are doing a half dozen therapies so who knows who will get the credit for the hopefull success.
I can only guess where the blame will go. Hopefully, there will only be success stories.

Others leave out major parts of their stories so while they may have tried a certain non-mainstream treatment, the rest of them is a mess due to some other story.

Who knows for sure but what MAY be a solution is that a combination of various treatments is needed.

Probably the only thing everyone can agree on is that cancer is no picnic.
Even saying it's the "worst thing in the world that can ever happen to a person" doesn't carry over for everyone. There are some (myself being one of them) who have been able to gather something positive from this experience. I'm not a victim while others are, I'm not angry while others are. It just shows again how cancer is a unique disease and there are many ways to deal with it and many ways to beat it or to live with it.
It's neither here nor there, it's just how it is.
I don't believe there's a right way or a wrong way, just what you are comfortable with...

"Life is not always a matter of holding good cards, but sometimes, playing a poor hand well.”
― Jack London

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

sorry for my language, i get my scan results in about an hour and last night well you can read where my head was at.

i will try and self censure a little more.

my little description was actually aimed at doctors in general that fit that description only. of course 99% of conventional and alternative don't fit, most are caring and they do the best for us. where would i be without them. likely dead already, so i have always expressed my gratitude for medicine and doctors. ok sometimes my frustration at the pace of innovation and change , but thats our political and medical system.

so sorry for any offence. i have a few doctors in my firing lines to sue for fraud and to bankrupt, if i go down and they appear to be a fraud, i would enjoy taking them down as well. i don't like being preyed upon, i feel well enough educated to avoid the scammers, but many are not. so the scammers that prey on the vulnerable, those alternative or conventional doctors will always be fair game for me. they exist and i am on the watch for them.

and those that do, well i just wanted gaol and or bankruptcy. i also have other more fitting punishments like a dose of crc, i know the names of the chemicals they use to induce colon cancer in rats, i am sure it would would on humans. but that would be to cruel.

its the premeditated nature of the conartist scam, the fake papers, the fake trials, i feel i can spot these now. i know of fake gcmaf out on the net, that worries me.

sometimes "if it looks to good to be true" well sometimes it is

thanks for the feedback cynthia, language is powerful and i will try and use mine more wisely. i always try, sometimes i fail.

hugs,
pete

ps i have to dash to get my results and reply further later.

devotion10's picture
devotion10
Posts: 642
Joined: Jan 2010

I have come to the site almost everyday for the past 2.5 years seeking comfort and information ... I know that since you have joined you have posted many, many more positive and uplifting posts than the one I referenced. I do appreciate your response to my comments. This site is meant to be a soft place to fall and sometimes we will all most likely cross a bit of a line I am certain. Again, I appreciate you thinking about my comments.

I wish you and everyone only the best,

Cynthia

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

Another great day and a clear scan result.
I have to pray and meditate now.
Thanks for the wishes.
Hugs,
Pete

omrhill
Posts: 125
Joined: May 2012

GREAT NEWS PETE! And what a good discussion this has been. What we can learn from one another is so valuable. As with most everything in life, we all should gather our our research, consider all of our individual variables, and make whatever decision we believe is in our best interest. Then, come here to support and be supported.

Relax tonight, Pete (or i guess it's today for you). You deserve it. Conrats!!

annalexandria's picture
annalexandria
Posts: 2263
Joined: Oct 2011

that's the kind of thing we can ALL agree on! Hugs-Ann

Kathleen808's picture
Kathleen808
Posts: 2308
Joined: Jan 2009

Fabulous Pete, just fabulous!! Celebrate my friend.

Aloha,
kathleen

ron50's picture
ron50
Posts: 1290
Joined: Nov 2001

Of the few doctors that have treated me for six decades for whom I have total respect. My surgeon was another. I can remember being out fishing with my chemo buddy ,Tom. He had double lung cancer and our oncologist was trying everything he had learned to keep tom alive. One day Tom asked him if he minded if he saw a tcm naturopath. John just patted him on the shoulder and said ,I only have two concerhs Tom,first if you don't mind,let me look at the ingredients. If there is nothing there that will conflict with your chemo then feel free to take it. My other concern is if it is going to send you broke buying it then more than likely it is of greater benefit to the seller than the buyer. Wise words ,Ron.

John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

Re:
".....first if you don't mind,let me look at the ingredients. If there
is nothing there that will conflict with your chemo then feel
free to take it. My other concern is if it is going to send you
broke buying it then more than likely it is of greater benefit to
the seller than the buyer...... "

(The complete list of the 8 imported medicinal strength herbs I had
used, cost less than $100 per month. That is hardly an amount
that would drive anyone "broke")

The most frustrating thing I read about, are the ravings about
alternatives that have absolutely no value in health matters.

Most of the "alternatives" are money generators for the unscrupulous,
and provide little, if any help to those that are suffering.

It enrages me to no end, to see a four thousand year old science
lumped into the garbage that's being promoted as bonafide
alternatives to western medicine. Traditional Chinese Medicine
is being used alongside western medicine in many well known
and respected health centers here in the USA.; The Mayo clinic,
and M.D. Anderson are among the many.....

TCM can be used alone, or as an adjunct to cancer treatments.
In fact, it has been found that the combination of both modalities
can offer greater benefit than one or the other alone in most instances.

Reciting a physician's prejudiced comments does not serve any
useful purpose, especially so, when so many qualified cancer
physicians are re-evaluating the methods used in TCM practices.

I personally have no interest in radical diet changes that eliminate
food products that our body needs for survival; it makes little
sense to immerse oneself in a single foodstuff and eliminate all others.

I personally do not have any interest in "grape seed extract",
"apricot pits", magnetic therapy, oxygenated water, or attempts
to PH balance the body.

Those are examples of scam industries that detract greatly from
the merits of a very viable medical science that has been used
for thousands of years, serving billions upon billions of people.

There are viable options and alternatives to western medicine,
but it requires in-depth research and a mind willing to acknowledge
the facts when they are presented.

We are all here to help one another. I heartily agree that stifling
opinions using degrading comments, or being argumentive for
the sake of being argumentive, is never well taken.

What works well for one, may not work at all for another,
but if/when we refuse to consider the possibility of it's value,
is when we may fail miserably.

I truly hope for better health for everyone, in whatever form
it is provided.

John

steved
Posts: 836
Joined: Apr 2004

I have been in and out of this forum for years and seen many conflicts arise and pass. I worried a little when I saw the first post as to what it would lead to but am pleased to see a well balanced response of thoughtful comments. I think this reflects the health of the forum at present- the mutual respect for differing positions, the mindfulness that we are here to help each other and the genuine concern people hold for their friends here.

As I have said before one of the strengths of this forum is its diversity which means there is a place for all and we are all able to have valid opinions on topics raised. We must be mindufl of our language and the power of it, especially on new comers who are at the most vulnerable moments of their lives, often joining soon after diagnosis. I am please that PEte has risen to being challenged with a respectful and thoughful response (though poisoning docs with with CRC inducing chemicals is a little harsh perhaps).

As a doctor on this site I am certainly not immune to the range of feelings about my professional colleagues and my own doctors. I am also not immune to blunt insults of my profession as a whole.

With respect to you all,
steve

Vickilg's picture
Vickilg
Posts: 281
Joined: Jan 2011

Pete said "and those that do, well i just wanted gaol and or bankruptcy. i also have other more fitting punishments like a dose of crc, i know the names of the chemicals they use to induce colon cancer in rats, i am sure it would would on humans. but that would be to cruel."

What a horrible thing to say. Truly disappointing.

maglets's picture
maglets
Posts: 2407
Joined: Jun 2006

Pete I know we have had peace here for some time and that is a welcome state. I think Steve has hit the nail on the head for me regarding your posts. Pete we must consider our new members. They sometimes do arrive within days of diagnosis.....they are upset and vulnerable. They do often have a diagnosis that is quite dire. Why would they want to experience your diatribe filled with rage?????

I find your post to be violent and threatening. surely this is not the atmosphere we long for. Perhaps some further reflection and self control in your posts would be in order.

I have thought hard about writing this for I do not wish to stir the pot. Your tone is very upsetting to me Pete.

maggie

geotina's picture
geotina
Posts: 2060
Joined: Oct 2009

Very well said, I could not have stated it better.

Love and Hugs - Tina

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3402
Joined: Apr 2010

Well said dear.
Winter Marie

here4lfe
Posts: 296
Joined: Jan 2010

I don't want to see the wars start again.

Best to all.

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