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Are natural remedies snake oil or promising

j_rod
Posts: 125
Joined: Mar 2012

I have been online reading a lot about diet, exercise, and other changes I can make to help my body become more cancer-proof. I have already read some of your posts about an alkaline diet and other research. Then there are those of you who are living life as usual but in moderation. I have seen articles online about natural things like shitake mushroom supplements for immune support. Also I have heard about graviola and apricot kernals. What is the story on these? I plan on eating healthier and exercising more as my doctor has recommended, but I wonder if these other things are just snake oil.

Limelife50's picture
Limelife50
Posts: 420
Joined: Nov 2011

I myself eat a lot of foods high in vitamin C,just to let you know,did you relize a bell pepper has almost 3 times the vitamin C content compared to an orange,also broccoli has almost twice the amount of vitamin C compared to an orange and both have hardlley any carbs if you are one those people who counts their carb intake,just thought I would share this.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Ah! but how do they compare with the vitamin C content of limes?!

I go with that - cooked us a mixed bell pepper stir-fry last night, eat broccoli frequently and take a largish dose of vitamin C powder daily at breakfast (in grapefruit juice - makes it nice and sour!) . By the way, did you know that in 'the western diet' the major source of vitamin C intake for many is from potatoes. They are not very high in C but contribute significantly because of the quantity of them many of us eat.

On the general question framed by j_rod, this man's take is that one should seek out natural remedies but exercise [love exercise!] careful judgment on what one believes. Just as Big Pharma has a lot to answer for, so there are plenty of exploitative people in the health food and dietary supplement businesses. There are also many kooks and well-meaning cranks with idees fixes.

I think it's important to recognise that over the centuries of 'modern' science, just as in the ancient Chinese pharmacopeia, the major source of useful medicines has been the plant world. I believe (but will stand correction by anyone better informed) that even in the process of engineering new synthetic drugs, observation of the effects of natural substances is often the inspiration or guide to what we're looking for.

My approach is to entertain all claims for wonder foods, but critically. If many different reputable sources (a value judgment called for here, obviously) are saying the same thing, I follow it up, usually hoping to find a scientific justification for the claims or, at least, some sound vindicating evidence. The medical authorities on both sides of the Atlantic have various websites that contain plenty of useful info on foods and supplements.

j_rod
Posts: 125
Joined: Mar 2012

I guess in my research and in talking with others, I have found much of the studies pointing to diet and exercise. Couple that with the fact that each visit that I have with a doctor they ask at least twice each visit if I am taking any supplements - natural or homeopathic or herbals. I am taking the one that increases the body's immune system - HCCG? Shitake mushroom capsules - I figure it can't hurt.

livealive's picture
livealive
Posts: 127
Joined: Feb 2012

Vegetarian - i.e. no meat, no eggs, no fish, no cheese with animal rennet/enzymes - so can I get a list guys ? More ambiguity leads to confusion for the simple minded here..

I caught peppers and broccoli, potatoes come with starch, I do a glass of carrot and kale in the morning, wheatgrass if it's grown, have an old 15 year juicer which refuses to give up, so I could get one of those cold press ones...

Also, my post, on trials, etc. I know is long, but if you'll can please write some thoughts, it's not going to be easy spending time on that one...but if you would ?

1 List
2 Thoughts on my post..

In gratitude,
Raj.

Limelife50's picture
Limelife50
Posts: 420
Joined: Nov 2011

I am no dietician ,but for me I am a carb counter,You mentioned you juice carrots,for me the carbs in carrots out weigh the benefits,the foods I go for ate high in vitamin C and vitamin A with both green peppers and broccoli being high in both.Also I recommend green beens and asparagus but then again it is the approach I have taken as far as this being the silver bullet i don't know ,but my new diet is so much better than my eating habits before my cancer dx.

livealive's picture
livealive
Posts: 127
Joined: Feb 2012

Hey Limelife, thank you. I have not even thought of carbs in carrots, rather, I thought, when hungry, eat a carrot, or, 2, or 4, i.e. it's a low calorie snack, you make me rethink what I presumed.

We do bell peppers, I like the orange and yellow ones, so are these as good as the green ? Asparagus is good, my wife stir fries or steams this...green beans are cooked Indian style..

I guess I can try and get the basics right, the rest is not in my control anyway, as one doctor put it "I am sorry, you are not in control".

Thank you.

R

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

R, I'm going to respond to you elsewhere also but here I'll just say that I would guess you have had an excellent diet for years and don't have anything to worry about on that front it's one less thing you need to fret about.

Limelife, it's great to hear you've got yourself a top-class diet now, which will tip the odds further in your favour. I don't agree about the carrots but that's a trivial matter. I am interested, though, to know why you count carbs. Have you had a weight problem or is there some other reason?

Limelife50's picture
Limelife50
Posts: 420
Joined: Nov 2011

I am 5foot7 and 4 years ago I weighed 240lbs,I tried for maybe around ten years to lose that weight thru exercise and different diet lifestyles,I for me found that by counting carbs I was able to lose 60 lbs and was able to get to 180 lbs.It is just my own personal belief that myself being overweight and being a semi heavy smoker contributed heavily to my dx of RCC,so because of this thinking it has caused me to be weary of carb intake,by the way I no longer smoke ,the thought of it disgusts me.As far as carrots I am aware of the so called glysemic level in ffoods,I just keep things simple and try to keep my carb intake below 50 carbs a day during the week,a carrot contains about 12 carbs and does not taste very good to me,so I guess it is up to the individual.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Thanks for the info. I'm one of the lucky people who can keep my weight exactly where I want it all of the time with very little effort. I realise how fortunate that is and how for many folks the most valiant of efforts is required to get to and maintain a healthy weight. I have to say how I admire your success in both giving up smoking and taking off so much excess poundage - that's a monumental double achievement. There's no room for criticism of a method that gave you such results and no hardship on the carrot font if you don't even like them! I wish you the best possible continuing health Limelife.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Thanks for the info. I'm one of the lucky people who can keep my weight exactly where I want it all of the time with very little effort. I realise how fortunate that is and how for many folks the most valiant of efforts is required to get to and maintain a healthy weight. I have to say how I admire your success in both giving up smoking and taking off so much excess poundage - that's a monumental double achievement. There's no room for criticism of a method that gave you such results and no hardship on the carrot front if you don't even like them!
I wish you the best possible continuing health Limelife.

One Lucky Girl's picture
One Lucky Girl
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 2012

Hi j_rod,

I can't speak to natural remedies but I can speak to diet and exercise. I am a very athletic person (weekly power yoga, dance, Pilates, daily dog walks, hiking/skiing on weekends) and cook all my food from scratch using fresh ingredients. I am also something of a wine connoisseur (but my doctor says that's okay ;-).

Adopting this lifestyle (>10 years ago) has helped me successfully battle a chronic illness, so that I no longer require medication. Although it did not prevent my kidney cancer, I believe it may have saved my life. I am highly attuned to any changes in my fitness level. Although my tumour was very small (1.9 cm), the fatigue I was feeling just wasn't normal. This led to early detection and I hope my doctors are right when they say it's highly unlikely to return.

Last but not least, my fitness level has really helped in my recovery from surgery. I am already walking every day and am looking forward to gradually easing back into my routine.

I wish you all the best with your upcoming surgery.

j_rod
Posts: 125
Joined: Mar 2012

...I am changing my diet to include a lot more fruits and veggies.A lot less sugar.Less meat. It has been good so far. I have more energy. Then, I have cut down on my much adored wine. (I see someone here is a wine connoisseur? In my family, we have shortened it up a little - we just say we are wine sewers:) Anyway, the weather here is getting warmer, so walking outside will help me get into shape. However, like you, one lucky girl, my relatively small tumor - 2.5 - must be zapping my energy. I started going to bed at 9 and getting up at 5. Then I started going to bed at 8, then 7, then had a hard time waking up in the morning. I thought it was odd. Then I heard that even this small buger would have that effect. The other thing that was happening was sweating, sweating, and more sweating. I was sure the temperature in my classroom was too hot, so I would open the windows and the kids would politely raise their hand and ask if I would close the windows because they were cold. (It is cold here in northern ILL, and there has been snow.) I would ask them, "You mean you're not sweating to death?" After several weeks of this, I knew I had a problem - and lo and behold - it is a symptom.But I've never lost weight - I have a hard time losing weight even under the best circumstances. But eating more veggies and less meat (and drinking less wine) is helping. PS - Thanks for all of the suggestions. And, I do eat a ton of green/red peppers and broccoli - so at least I am doing something right.

LISAinTN's picture
LISAinTN
Posts: 143
Joined: Aug 2011

j_rod,

The sweating is a symptom of kidney cancer? I had that problem for 2 solid months AFTER the surgery. I even posted here about it. It was maddening! I'd go round the clock 24/7 breaking out in an instant sweat and then 2-3 minutes later, cold chills and I'd be freezing. I didn't sleep for anything and it was terrible. Then it went away. Last month I had to have a colonoscopy for the diverticulitis and now I'm having this sweating/cold chills problem again. I am not sleeping at all because it happens all day and at least 3 times per hour at night.

I was put to sleep for the colonoscopy, too so now I'm beginning to think it has something to do with the anesthesia in my body after these procedures. I hope that's all it is and that it goes away soon. My husband is sleeping in another room right now because I am sleeping with the window open at night when it's in the 20's and 30's. He thinks I'm crazy, but I can't stand this sweating!

Blessings,
Lisa

livealive's picture
livealive
Posts: 127
Joined: Feb 2012

I sweated and had to change every hour for 2 weeks after the surgery, my clothes were drenched..then as I dropped the vicodin, the sweating got better. Flip side, the body needs to expel the toxins somehow, if not the kidney is not 100%, then maybe the body finds another way...that's my own theory, usually wrong :-)

But, what meds are you one ? If you don't enough salt, water retention does not happen and you sweat more...but most importantly, identify the meds...ask if you see a relationship.

Thanks.

j_rod
Posts: 125
Joined: Mar 2012

Yes - I was told the non-stop sweating was a symptom of the tumor. But it is different for everyone. The Dr. is surprised I don't have blood in my urine or flank pain (where is the flank anyway?). To answer the question on meds - I take nothing. I have never been in the hospital (I never had children) and have never been ill - I have never even called in sick to work. I have a regular annual check up every year and my vitals and everything has always been great. So this whole thing has been a complete surprise to me. The doctor said that maybe it was a wake up call. It might be - in the last few years I have not been working out like I used to - if at all - have been drinking more - and have been eating out more....met a man a few years ago...and have been changing my regular routine - but seeing that I need to go back to the old me. Thanks everyone for being here.

One Lucky Girl's picture
One Lucky Girl
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 2012

Hi j_rod,

I thought I was doing everything right, but I still got kidney cancer. I was also perfectly healthy. I sure wish I knew if I did something to cause it so I could be certain it wouldn't come back. Even if you haven't been working out and have been eating less healthy food, it doesn't mean you did something to cause this tumour. Don't spend time worrying about what you could have done, just invest in your health to help speed your recovery so you feel fit and strong when this is over with.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

[That picture really gets to me! I can envisage a communal visit from this thread descending on that beautiful place.]

So many of us here had no symptoms for years and never invited this disease via high risk factors, yet here we are. Having always had robust immune responses and enjoyed virtually perfect health for almost 70 years, I asked myself how this cancer had sneaked under my immune radar system and, accordingly, if it's done it before, what could stop it doing it again.

Two answers are apparent to me. The first is increased vigilance by both the medics and myself (sharpened, but not paranoid, focus on messages from the body). The other interests me much more and involves greater control of my own destiny by myself. The notion is of not merely paying closer attention but of actually improving the capacity of my immune system to detect the malaise. If it can detect it, it will surely defeat it. I already have a whiff of evidence that I may be achieving that end.

With this philosophy, there's no point in crying over spilt milk - let the past be. Focus on now and what can be done to optimise the future. That's only a variation on what One Lucky Girl has just said, but perhaps ventures marginally further [can't get away from 'margins' in this game] in terms of concreteness - find ways to improve your immune detection capacity.

One Lucky Girl's picture
One Lucky Girl
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 2012

Hi Tex,

I'm glad you find the picture inspirational. If you have itchy feet, Ibiza's only a two hour flight from the UK (although Scotland's on my list!!!). And thank you so much for the lovely compliment above.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Thanks, I'll check flights from Edinburgh and Aberdeen! My Wife has wondered about Ibiza but I'd better not show her your picture in case she changes her mind :)

By the way, I hope your Husband's name is "Billy".

Do you have any information you would feel able to impart about consequences in the medical establishment over there? In any case, I hope you are continuing to recover well.

One Lucky Girl's picture
One Lucky Girl
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 2012

Tee hee Tex! How did I know that one wouldn't slip by you? Girl's gotta have a little fun...

I don't actually know much about the medical care there, except that there are a couple of hospitals in Ibiza town. Happily for me, the closest I have come to a medical emergency there is cutting my forehead on my beach umbrella at Ses Salinas. Might've had something to do with those darned daiquiris... It is probably worth carefully researching the facilities before you go.

Ibiza's really pretty -- best to avoid the package tourism enclaves and enjoy the real island. Maybe even go in May or September to avoid the throngs.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

What are the thongs like in May and September?

I was actually being serious about the medical establishment in Switzerland but will fully appreciate if you want to regard that as a closed book.

One Lucky Girl's picture
One Lucky Girl
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 2012

Tex, there you go again! ;-)

Sorry, thought you meant Ibiza (Spain). Switzerland has private (but universal) health care. That means that everyone living in Switzerland must have health insurance, and that insurance companies can't refuse anyone for basic care (which is actually very good and includes prescription medications). Of course, the sky is the limit in terms of private coverage (but they do get you on pre-existing conditions).

This was my first hospital experience but I think the standards are exceptionally high. Stays are generally longer i.e. you stay until you can look after yourself. For my Da Vinci procedure I was in 5 days, but had the option of staying for 10 (but I was eager to go home). Waiting times for specialists are very short (I saw 3 with no appointment).

I'm not sure what else to add here, but I will try to answer any specific questions if I know the answers.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

I'm sorry if I'm actually failing to take the hint but I really meant to ask about the repercussions from the unconscionable way in which you were treated by the consultants who deceived you. I can understand if you want to treat it as just water under the bridge so I won't expect an answer on that but I hope we'll talk some more in future.

One Lucky Girl's picture
One Lucky Girl
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 2012

Hi Tex, Guess my blond roots are showing. I really didn't make the connection from Ibiza to my first two consults here in Switzerland.

I won't be doing any more follow-up on that situation. I left it in the hands of the hospital to handle as they see fit (and I'm sure they will). My urologist has already signed off on my case, leaving me to the doctor who will be looking after my yearly ultra-sounds (alternating with yearly MRIs).

As I read the boards and become more educated about kidney cancer and surgery, I have reached the opinion that many people have open procedures recommended to them simply because the urologist to which they were referred is not skilled in more complex laparoscopic/robotic procedures. In my opinion, patients (especially those with small tumours) should try wherever possible to consult with a urologist who is skilled in both areas to receive unbiased information. There is perhaps also an issue of patients being recommended for a full nephrectomy, when a kidney-sparing but more complicated partial nephrectomy is a viable option. (I'm not cynical, this is simply based on my personal experience). I think the urologist I consulted with really believed open was better, but it was inexcusable that he lied to me when I directly asked for a consult with a laparoscopic specialist before making a decision.

That said, I am putting this behind me now. I don't want to end this man's career, I simply want that behaviour stopped.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

That sounds like a very well-reasoned conclusion. Assuming that the authorities do deal with the situation effectively, then the way you've left it is best for him and, much more importantly, best for you.

I agree entirely with your analysis of the surgical options. Unlike yourself, I was in the anomalous position that my Urologist is a top expert in robotic surgery and we have the most advanced equipment at his hospital but mine was a case where a laparoscopic start led to an open finish to avoid running still higher risks. Lap. surgery and, particularly, nephron sparing approaches call for great expertise and, ideally, extensive experience. Therein lies the catch - Catch 22 - there have to be patients undergoing surgery from inexperienced surgeons if the latter are to gain the requisite experience!

Not everyone can have it all. I suppose someone with a small tumour should, as you counsel, seek out a surgeon who could attempt the more conservative (but more difficult) NSS approach. Then, they should ask for the surgeon's success rate - even a comparative novice may be doing so well that they represent a good safe bet.

The success rate in renal surgery is going to shoot up in the near future because of the new robotic techniques, for many reasons, not least the sparing of the surgeon from fatigue in long operations, with consequent effect on fine motor co-ordination and mental concentration.

I hope you are soon back to your full complement of ultra-healthy physical activities and total good health.

LISAinTN's picture
LISAinTN
Posts: 143
Joined: Aug 2011

Raj,

I'm not on any meds at all. I take some supplements and some melatonin for sleep.

Who knows. I am so super sensitive to everything, maybe it's because a gnat flew backwards in front of me one day and it caused some sensitivity that started the sweating. LOL Nothing is normal for me. ROFL

Blessings,
Lisa

Olsera's picture
Olsera
Posts: 38
Joined: Dec 2011

I am thinking about taking IP6 Gold as an immune booster I eat lots of fruits & veggies get plenty of exercise & rest but I thought a little extra can't hurt. It also said it is supposed to improve renal function. I am just wondering if anyone has heard of it & what your opinions are?
Thanks

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Olsera, I can't tell you anything about this and will be interested in any info. others here can proffer.

However, on the general topic of food supplements and diet more generally, ACS has lots of material at e.g.

http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/TreatmentsandSideEffects/ComplementaryandAlternativeMedicine/DietarySupplements/dietary-supplements-misconceptions

and the many other pages accessible from there. Also, there are many sites offering info. on foods with angiogenic inhibiting effects

http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=angiogenesis+inhibitors+foods&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=HKJYT-eMH4rw8QOw1Zn1Dg

is a good starting point.

I'm interested to see that green tea is good both for relieving depression and as an anti-cancer food, being anti-angiogenic.

Olsera's picture
Olsera
Posts: 38
Joined: Dec 2011

Thanks for the websites TW I will keep researching.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Have you made any headway on this, Olsera? Thanks for drawing my attention to it since it contains much of interest to me.

You may have seen ads for "Dr. Shamsuddin's original patented formula" which "represents a new standard for the purest and most potent IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) and Inositol" which is enough to put anyone off taking it seriously. But that would be wrong. He was one of the authors of a very impressive paper from the Univ. of Maryland, published in 2003 entitled
"Cancer Inhibition by Inositol Hexaphosphate (IP6) and Inositol: From Laboratory to Clinic"
which was presented at the International Research Conference on Food, Nutrition, and Cancer, given by the American Institute for Cancer Research and the World Cancer Research Fund International in Washington, D.C., July 17–18, 2003. It's very long and some parts will probably be impenetrable for non-experts but a few sentences give the gist, e.g. the Abstract which runs:

"Inositol hexaphosphate (IP6) is a naturally occurring polyphosphorylated carbohydrate that is present in substantial amounts in almost all plant and mammalian cells. It was recently recognized to possess multiple biological functions. A striking anticancer effect of IP6 was demonstrated in different experimental models. Inositol is also a natural constituent possessing moderate anticancer activity. The most consistent and best anticancer results were obtained from the combination of IP6 plus inositol. In addition to reducing cell proliferation, IP6 increases differentiation of malignant cells, often resulting in a reversion to normal phenotype. Exogenously administered IP6 is rapidly taken into the cells and dephosphorylated to lower-phosphate inositol phosphates, which further interfere with signal transduction pathways and cell cycle arrest. Enhanced immunity and antioxidant properties can also contribute to tumor cell destruction. However, the molecular mechanisms underlying this anticancer action are not fully understood. Because it is abundantly present in regular diet, efficiently absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract, and safe, IP6 holds great promise in our strategies for the prevention and treatment of cancer. IP6 plus inositol enhances the anticancer effect of conventional chemotherapy, controls cancer metastases, and improves the quality of life, as shown in a pilot clinical trial. The data strongly argue for the use of IP6 plus inositol in our strategies for cancer prevention and treatment. However, the effectiveness and safety of IP6 plus inositol at therapeutic doses needs to be determined in phase I and phase II clinical trials in humans."

Later sections include:

"IP6 plus inositol and patients

An enhanced antitumor activity without compromising the patient's quality of life was demonstrated in a pilot clinical trial involving six patients with advanced colorectal cancer (Dukes C and D) with multiple liver and lung metastasis (78). IP6 plus inositol was given as an adjuvant to chemotherapy according to Mayo protocol. One patient with liver metastasis refused chemotherapy after the first treatment, and she was treated only with IP6 plus inositol; her control ultrasound and abdominal computed tomography scan 14 mo after surgery showed a significantly reduced growth rate. A reduced tumor growth rate was noticed overall and in some cases a regression of lesions was noted. Additionally, when IP6 plus inositol was given in combination with chemotherapy, side effects of chemotherapy (drop in leukocyte and platelet counts, nausea, vomiting, alopecia) were diminished and patients were able to perform their daily activities (78). Further controlled randomized clinical trials are necessary to confirm these observations.

Other biological effects of IP6

In humans, IP6 not only has almost no toxic effects, but it has many other beneficial health effects such as inhibition of kidney stone formation and reduction in risk of developing cardiovascular disease. IP6 was administered orally either as the pure sodium salt or in a diet to reduce hypercalciuria and to prevent formation of kidney stones, and no evidence of toxicity was reported (64,65,79,80). A potential hypocholesterolemic effect of IP6 may be very significant in the clinical management of hyperlipidemia and diabetes (75,76,81). IP6 inhibits agonist-induced platelet aggregation (82) and efficiently protects myocardium from ischemic damage and reperfusion injury (83), both of which are important for the management of cardiovascular diseases.

Many potential beneficial actions of IP6 have been described. The inclusion of IP6 plus inositol in our strategies for prevention and treatment of cancer as well as other chronic diseases is warranted. However, the effectiveness and safety of IP6 plus inositol need to be determined in Phase I and Phase II clinical trials in humans.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

The more one reads, the more substance there appears to be in the thesis that those who benefit from the cancer industry are not over-eager to acknowledge any merit in natural, inexpensive, non-toxic alternatives.

Indubitably there are legions of crooks and cranks out to relieve us of our cash but surely they don't look like this?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi39.html

I'm reluctant to accept that all of this is tosh. Maybe this is wishful thinking but I will only be so persuaded when I see a convincing, evidence-based rebuttal in the medical/scientific literature.

Can knowledgeable folks over there tell me whether Barbara L. Minton is a fruit-cake? She doesn't write like a total idiot and her piece on IP6 also makes interesting reading:

http://www.naturalnews.com/025975_IP6_cancer_treatment.html

livealive's picture
livealive
Posts: 127
Joined: Feb 2012

I think we have to look at what motivates entities.

Doctors are motivated by
- cures
- treatment
- egos (reputation, etc)
- money (but then would they become doctors v/s corporate managers)

Pharmaceutical companies are motivated
- money
- reputation
- shareholder value

Patients are motivated by

- cures (the simpler the better)
- conventional medicine given by their doctors
- alternative medicine (it's called alternative for a reason ?)

Government

- Re-election of the incumbent
- Election of the aspirant
- Money
- Well being of the population so they can get re-elected

I don't know where the lines are - I never thought of cancer, now it seems that's all I think, I told the surgeon, it feels like there is so much ambiguity and uncertainty about what he said, that I want to go back to school and research this myself, he brushed me off - saying top urologists cannot question what he has proven, I shouldn't even try. Admittedly, he is the best - can't question that, but given how overloaded he is, and how much nonsense they have to put up with (the socio-political-economical structure being broker), he has so little time to focus on his patient, then he has to do his research and publish, are you surprised they don't have time for this "quackery" ?

They are trained a certain way, it takes effort to unlearn. It's inconvenient.

There, more meaningless BS from me. Sorry.

R.

Olsera's picture
Olsera
Posts: 38
Joined: Dec 2011

Hi TW,
I am glad this is of interest to you. I haven't done anymore research so far as I have a very slow dial-up connection(I live in a rural area so I am still on dial-up)it takes for ever to accomplish anything on the computer. I have also been out enjoying all the nice powder snow we have been getting lately. What you have provided is very interesting though, thank-you. The first I heard about the IP6 was from my aunt she phoned me after she found out about my cancer & had to tell me about the IP6. Three people she knew one had prostate cancer, one had colon cancer with mets to liver & one had breast cancer they started taking the IP6 & when they went for their surgeries the cancer was gone & their surgeons were baffled. Sounds to good to be true but she was pretty adamant about it. Your research capabilities & knowledge amazes me by the way. If I learn anymore I will post it.

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