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Vitamin C IV therapy - Kansas Medical Center study - Has anyone tried this?

strongformom
Posts: 17
Joined: Jul 2011

Hi all,

Has anyone tried Vitamin C IV therapy with good results? If so, where/how did you receive it? Did insurance cover it?

Thoughts or comments?

Thanks in advance!
Jen

YouTube news coverage (there are many other stories)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_g5-6DCVQ&feature=related

Other studies:

The University of Kansas Medical Center has a gynecologic cancer and antioxidant study underway headed by Dr. Drisko.

Promising Research on Vitamin C Combined with Vitamin K3

Cancer cell killing: The anticancer effects of sodium ascorbate (vitamin C) and 2-methyl-1,4-naphthoquinone (vitamin K3) administered separately or in combination on human ovarian, breast, endometrial and skin cancer cells lines has been demostrated. When given separately, vitamin C or K3 has a growth inhibiting action only at high concentrations but when combined into a single mixture administration of both vitamins demonstrated a synergistic inhibition of cell growth at 10 to 50 times lower concentrations. These vitamins are not toxic to normal human cells. The combination of sodium ascorbate and vitamin K3 may also prevent metastasis.

The mechanism is something called autoschizic cell death. Autoschizis, is a novel type of cell death characterized by exaggerated cell membrane damage and progressive loss of cell contents. During this process, the nucleus becomes smaller, cell size decreases one-half to one-third of its original size. Co-administration of sodium ascorbate and K3 induces a cell cycle block on cancer cells making it harder for them to grow and divide. This is called a G1/S block. The intravenous vitamin cocktail containing sodium ascorbate and vitamin K3 diminishes cancer cell DNA synthesis, increases H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) production, and decreases cancer cell intracellular antioxidant defenses.

RoseyR
Posts: 462
Joined: Feb 2011

I had eagerly awaited the results of a similar large study at U Kansas recently led by Dr. Jeanne Drisko: the impact of IVC on gynecological cancers.

Whatever the results, I cringed at the likely cost; in my region IVC costs about two hundred dollars a session.

I later saw that results of the study suggested that IVC was far more effective in combination with chemo than AFTER chemo. I will try to find results of that large study; if anyone else can access them, please forward to our board.

In the meantime, the possible synergy of C and Vitamin K promises some more effective results.

As for the cost of such therapy, I too would like to know that the average cost is--a cost contingent on how often, ideally, the treatment should be administered.

Thanks,
Rosey

daisy366's picture
daisy366
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mar 2009

maggie_wilson was getting this. She posted recently but did not mention her experience with this. You might try private emailing her if she does not respond here.

Keep us posted on your mom's progress. Wishing all well, Mary Ann

strongformom
Posts: 17
Joined: Jul 2011

Thank you both for sharing information about this.

My mom's progress...she has passed her MUGA heart health scan and will begin her Doxorubicin chemo on this week if her blood tests are o.k. for it.

I have tried to convince her to consider this Vitamin C IV therapy but my mom is very traditional and unless her doctor recommends it, she won't consider it. Given that her oncologist seems indifferent to CAM therapies, this is unlikely, but I have put it on my mom's radar and so that's all I can do. In addition, this is not a treatment offered at the Moores Cancer Center in San Diego as far as I can tell. She would have to travel out of town to receive it if she did want to go forward.

Best wishes,
Jennifer

Ro10's picture
Ro10
Posts: 1332
Joined: Jan 2009

Vitamin K causes blood coagulation. With my recent experience with blood clots in my lungs I would hesitate to take Vitamin K. Having cancer increases the risk of blood clots.

RoseyR
Posts: 462
Joined: Feb 2011

Ro, I am fairly sure that Vitamin K does the opposite of causing coagulation; I believe it THINS the blood, which is why when one is taking blood thinners, one is sometimes warned NOT to eat more greens than usual as they are so rich in Vitamin K.

As for cancer "increasing the risk of blood clots, is this a cause and effect phenomenon or merely a correspondence? (The highly respected Dr. Keith Block, cancer expert, devotes an entire chapter of one of his books to "thick blood and thin blood," noting that cancer patients usually have THICK blood, sticky blood that not only makes them prone to clots but to easier spread of cancer cells and that one of the goals they need to aim for are foods and supplements that THIN the blood, which according to him and other sources miniizes the risk of metastasis.

Hence garlic, onions, fish oil, curcumin, vitamin E succinate, and yes, greens, all thin the blood and hence are GOOD for us UNLESS our platelets are unusually low--a phase during which we need to cut back on these blood thinners.

Perhaps this topic is so vital that it deserves its own post?

Best,
Rosey

Ro10's picture
Ro10
Posts: 1332
Joined: Jan 2009

People on oral blood thinners are advised not to eat an excess of foods high in vitamin k because it can effect their dosage of the medicine. Since I am taking the injections I don't have to watch what I eat.

RoseyR
Posts: 462
Joined: Feb 2011

Thanks for correcting me on this; somehow, I got it backward. Yes, if you're on blood thinners, you shouldn't ingest too much Vitamin K because it may interfere with the blood thinner by causing blood to thicken a bit; K does abet the blood-clotting process. (Checked out my old research files and yes, you are right.)

Sorry for my error.

The rest of my info, however, is correct according to Keith Block. (As cancer patients, we want to thin our blood as much as possible but we don't want it to be so thin that we're in danger of extremely low platelets or aneurisms.)

Hope you're feeling well, Ro.

Best,
Rosey

bea-mil's picture
bea-mil
Posts: 105
Joined: Jun 2010

I had vit C and vit B17 IV therapies over a year ago. Plus hydroperoxide IV and oxygenation.
It was working for me but very expensive and I couldn't afford more than few sessions (4 months, every second week). It was done in Toronto, Canada.

janh_in_ontario
Posts: 107
Joined: Sep 2010

Wow -- something actually was done in Toronto rather than US? I am shocked - we are usually behind by 10 years!
jan

bea-mil's picture
bea-mil
Posts: 105
Joined: Jun 2010

I live in GTA don't know about USA but I have different opinion about Canada.

There is a Total Health Show held in Toronto (Convention Centre)every year. You can get contacts, news, info and everything about good nutrition, living foods, herbs, natural supplements, diverse healing modalities, energy medicine, organic gardening and much more.
I go there almost every year for last 15 years. Here is a link:
http://totalhealthshow.com/showInfo/index.cfm
Next one is in April.

janh_in_ontario
Posts: 107
Joined: Sep 2010

Thanks! I will check it out. I thought this treatment was something within our medical system - which I find sadly lacking compared to the US. I have had a horrible experience so far on this journey... I am being treated out of Sunnybrook. Which hospital do you frequent?

jan

bea-mil's picture
bea-mil
Posts: 105
Joined: Jun 2010

My surgery was done at St. Joseph's Health Center but for all the check-ups I go to PMH (Princess Margaret Hospital). I have the same experience as you.

carolenk's picture
carolenk
Posts: 909
Joined: Feb 2011

I have to agree that Vitamin K is necessary for healthy blood clotting rather than keeping blood "thin."

I don't think Vitamin K promotes excessive clotting. Vitamin K3 is difficult to obtain & I would be very surprised if you find ANYONE who is administering Vitamin K3 IV.

I have papillary serous ovarian cancer--very aggressive & persistent. I was diagnosed in August 2010 and only had a partial remission lasting 3 months. I have been taking IV Vitamin C treatments 2-3 times/week since October 2010.

The cost is $85/each. The doctor is out of my insurance network & my insurance only covers treatments that are considered to be standard of care.

I wish I could say something wonderful about my results. All I can say is that the treatment has kept me from having ascites while the cancer has slowly progressed. Without the IV Vitamin C treatments, the cancer would probably have progressed a lot faster. Just to give you an idea of how aggressive my cancer was, I had more tumors 4 weeks after my debulking surgery than I did before surgery!

I am currently on carbo/gemcitabine...and still on the Vitamin C IVs.

debrajo's picture
debrajo
Posts: 684
Joined: Sep 2011

When I was little vitamin K was given to everyone who was to under go surgery to help clot the blood. It was given to me before I had my tonsils out because then a lot of children were bleeding to death. Just saying! (This was in the early 60's)

janh_in_ontario
Posts: 107
Joined: Sep 2010

You mentioned you had some treatments in Toronto - were they effective? Where did you get them? Would they be covered under insurance? Would you recommend them? I would love to learn more!
Thanks
jan

bea-mil's picture
bea-mil
Posts: 105
Joined: Jun 2010

Here is the link to the clinic:
http://nasriclinic.com/
The treatments are not covered by OHIP and I don't have any other private insurance so I had to pay for them (250-500 per treatment). It is hard to say what is helping me, these treatments, or my diet, or reiki, or herbs I'm taking, but I'm still ok after almost 2 years from my surgery. I'm trying many alternative things since I'm not doing any conventional treatments.
Bea-Mil

janh_in_ontario
Posts: 107
Joined: Sep 2010

You mentioned you had some treatments in Toronto - were they effective? Where did you get them? Would they be covered under insurance? Would you recommend them? I would love to learn more!
Thanks
jan

daisy366's picture
daisy366
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mar 2009

Question: Does your gyn-onc know about the IV Vit C?

During my original treatment I inquired about taking larger dose of Vit C to combat a cold and he told me no - because Vit C is an antioxidant and would interfere with chemo.

I'm wondering if your Vit C treatments might be lowering the effectiveness of your chemo.

Mary Ann

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carolenk
Posts: 909
Joined: Feb 2011

The gyn/onc is fully aware of all the extra stuff I'm doing. I responded really quickly to the first-line chemo regarding the CA-125 level dropping from 5 digits to single digits in 6 months. Wouldn't that be an indication as to whether the chemo was working or not?

I didn't have the Vitamin C treatments the day before chemo, the day of chemo or the day after chemo. Considering the short half life of chemo, that was enough to avoid chemo-interference. The doctor was OK with that.

I just wasn't able to keep the CA-125 from climbing again in 3 months. I think the IV Vitamin C treatments are more effective when given with chemo & maybe even prevent chemoresistance. Carboplatin is still working for me even though "by the book" I am supposed to be classified as resistant to carbo.

Thanks for the question. Let me know if you more ideas.

RoseyR
Posts: 462
Joined: Feb 2011

Two issues:

My earliest post above confirms that according to Drisco's major study of antioxidants and gynecological cancers at U of Kansas a few years ago, yes, intravenous C seems more effective during than after chemo.

If I got it wrong about Vitamin K, sorry; will check my references. (Just recalled how often I was warned NOT to eat "more greens than usual" when I was taking anti-clot medication. Thought that greens were a major source of vitamin K and that therefore they would help to thin our blood.)

Will go back to check sources on all of this; thanks for suggesting I may have erred on this one.

Rosey

RoseyR
Posts: 462
Joined: Feb 2011

Two issues:

My earliest post above confirms that according to Drisco's major study of antioxidants and gynecological cancers at U of Kansas a few years ago, yes, intravenous C seems more effective during than after chemo.

If I got it wrong about Vitamin K, sorry; will check my references. (Just recalled how often I was warned NOT to eat "more greens than usual" when I was taking anti-clot medication. Thought that greens were a major source of vitamin K and that therefore they would help to thin our blood.)

Will go back to check sources on all of this; thanks for suggesting I may have erred on this one.

Rosey

RoseyR
Posts: 462
Joined: Feb 2011

Two issues:

My earliest post above confirms that according to Drisco's major study of antioxidants and gynecological cancers at U of Kansas a few years ago, yes, intravenous C seems more effective during than after chemo.

If I got it wrong about Vitamin K, sorry; will check my references. (Just recalled how often I was warned NOT to eat "more greens than usual" when I was taking anti-clot medication. Thought that greens were a major source of vitamin K and that therefore they would help to thin our blood.)

Will go back to check sources on all of this; thanks for suggesting I may have erred on this one.

Rosey

Tethys41's picture
Tethys41
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sep 2010

I received vitamin C and nutritional IVs throughout my treatment for stage IIIc ovarian cancer. There's little doubt in my mind that they helped reduce the side effects of the chemo drugs and kept my immune system from being trashed. I acheived remission after 8 rounds of chemo, and the chemo nurses told me they saw me looking better and better with each treatment, which, they said, is not ususally the case with their patients.
I had my first vitamin C IVs during a 2 week stay at the Oasis of Hope hospital in Mexico. My treatment there was aimed at boosting my immune system and sensitizing the tumors to the chemo I was receiving in the states. An integrative nurse practitioner I know well tells me that IVC can even sensitize tumors that have become chemo resistant.
I've continued the IVs at a gradually reduced rate, since the end of chemo in 2/10, since the first two years after chemo are critical for keeping your immune system functioning properly. They are expensive, and mine cost much more than the price CarolenK quotes. I was able, however, to learn how to have my insurance cover the cost of the IVs.

RoseyR
Posts: 462
Joined: Feb 2011

Since many of us would like to explore IV treatment but are convinced we can't afford it, could you share any tips on how you got your insurance company to cover it? I have very good insurance (Personal Choice) but would have no idea how to get them to cover such treatments. Even if they would pay half the cost, I'd be grateful!

Thanks, Rosey

RoseyR
Posts: 462
Joined: Feb 2011

Since many of us would like to explore IV treatment but are convinced we can't afford it, could you share any tips on how you got your insurance company to cover it? I have very good insurance (Personal Choice) but would have no idea how to get them to cover such treatments. Even if they would pay half the cost, I'd be grateful!

Thanks, Rosey

Tethys41's picture
Tethys41
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sep 2010

The first step in determining whether your insurance will cover the IVs is to call and find out whether they will cover the following CPT codes:
96365
96366
96550
J7050
Each code represents a different apart of the procedure. If they do cover the codes, reimbursement will depend on whether your pracitioner is in network or out of network. You will need to meet your out of network deductible before they pay for any of the service for out of network pracitioners. If the practitioner is in network, there is an assigned amount for each procedure for which insurance will pay.
If the codes are covered, you then submit a claim form with these codes listed on it, and the affiliated costs. You would want to check with your pracitioner because they have specific amounts that they claim for each of these procedures.
96365 represents the first hour of the IV
96366 represents each subsequent hour of IV (so if your IV lasts 3 hours, you would list this twice)
96550 represents port access, if you receive the IV through a port
J7050 represents the IV fluid and you need to indicate the number of ml in the IV

The claim form will also require the diagnosis codes and probably which codes relate to each item listed above. So for me, I used the codes for ovarian cancer and fatigue. No where on the claim form is it necessary to indicate that the IV was vitamin C.

Not much of this process is easy. I had to make multiple phone calls to my insurance company to get them to come through on this. Once they got their act together, however, they covered a year's worth of IVs, which amounted to around $15K. Once they proved to my practitioner that they would pay for the IVs, she now submits the claims and receives payment from them directly, instead of from me.
Hope it works for you.

RoseyR
Posts: 462
Joined: Feb 2011

Really appreciate all your detail on this; it may help many of us.

One final question: What made you go to Oasis of Hope in Mexico (among many clinics outside the U.S.); was it your own research or someone's recommendation? And do they now have a branch in California, as I heard half a year ago?

Should I have a recurrence, my doctor is recommending that I consider Keith Block's treatment center in Illinois where apparently he does chronotherapy, nutritional IVs, and takes a very comprehensive approach to treating our disease.

Best,
Rosey

Tethys41's picture
Tethys41
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sep 2010

I've heard amazing things about the Block Center and might have gone there had I known about it. The nice thing is they accept insurance.
I went to Oasis of Hope because a friend's husband, who had been diagnosed with inoperable pancreatic cancer a couple of years earlier, had gone there. He was successfully treated without chemo. The "without chemo" aspect really appealed to me, but when I spoke to the doctors there they said that, for ovarian cancer, they saw better results with chemo.
I was looking at the site for the new Oasis of Hope in CA. I'm guessing that they can do most of the treatments I received in Mexico, but some are not leagal in the U.S. It also appears that the CA branch is focusing mainly on supporting patients through chemo, rather than alternative treatment.

Best of luck with the insurance. Let me know how it goes.

strongformom
Posts: 17
Joined: Jul 2011

Hi all,

Thank you very much for sharing your stories and information.

I'm trying to find a place in San Diego that offers Vitamin C IV therapy as the Moores Cancer Center at UCSD does not. I tried calling the American Cancer Association but their representative said they do not have a way to sort their treatment center data by this type of integrative/immune therapy criteria. I did find a place in La Jolla which offers Vitamin C IVs, so I'm thrilled as this is very close by to my mom should she be able to use it.

During my internet research, I found a blog with listings of some cancer centers which offer Vitamin C IV treatment. I have verified some of the listing are accurate, but I can't vouch for all of them. If anyone hasn't seen this already, here it is:

http://intravenousvitaminc.blogspot.com/2008/03/doctors-clinics-researchers.html

Take care everyone. Have a good weekend. :)

Best,
Jen

maryambaker
Posts: 2
Joined: Jul 2012

Hi Jen,
I am an ovarian CA patient (stage 111C) at Moores Cancer Center in San Diego and my cancer has just recurred (I had a pleural effusion and a talc pleuroldesis). My sister died of stage 111C ovarian cancer 13 yeas ago and so far my treatment has been the same as hers; very discouraging to follow the same path; where are the scientific advances in all this time ? My oncologist says my cancer is now "incurable" and I begin "salavage chemo" in a couple of weeks. I have a bad feeling I am going to be "written off" by Moores when I want to fight for my life. I would like to try Vitamin C IVs; where in La Jolla can one get this treatment?
Best wishes,
Miriam

maryambaker
Posts: 2
Joined: Jul 2012

Hi Jen,
I am an ovarian CA patient (stage 111C) at Moores Cancer Center in San Diego and my cancer has just recurred (I had a pleural effusion and a talc pleuroldesis). My sister died of stage 111C ovarian cancer 13 yeas ago and so far my treatment has been the same as hers; very discouraging to follow the same path; where are the scientific advances in all this time ? My oncologist says my cancer is now "incurable" and I begin "salavage chemo" in a couple of weeks. I have a bad feeling I am going to be "written off" by Moores when I want to fight for my life. I would like to try Vitamin C IVs; where in La Jolla can one get this treatment?
Best wishes,
Miriam

Tethys41's picture
Tethys41
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sep 2010

Miriam,
I am not familiar with pracitioners in the San Diego area. But, if you're willing to drive, I highly recommend Dr. Fung at Live Well Clinic, in La Quinta, near Palm Springs. I worked with her at the beginning of my treatment, because I had to travel to California to find a gyn/onc. She has multiple integrative treatments she can administer to help you with this. I also think you may want to get a second opinion from another oncologist. I know many women who have acheived a second remission after a recurrance.

kcsoftball
Posts: 2
Joined: Jun 2012

Thank you so much for these codes. I have contacted my insurance company and they will approve all these codes, now all I have to do is get my infusion clinic to list these codes on their billing sheet. That would be a lifesaver for me. My treatments @ KU Medical Center are $160 each and I am taking 3x per week.

I am hoping that will even pay some portion of this.

Thanks again, and I hope all is going well with you.
Sheryl

daisy366's picture
daisy366
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mar 2009

Do you have any indication that these treatments are helping?? I'm curious to know.

mary Ann

jt25741
Posts: 22
Joined: Apr 2012

I have been struggling to figure out how to pay for these sessions for my wife.   The cost out of pocket would be much higher than our mortgage.    But at the same time much much lower than chemo has been for the insurance company.   If this can help cure my wife, everyone will be so much better off -- even the insurance company.   

If anyone has gone to the Irvine CA based Oasis of Hope for IVC, please let me know.   I am hoping it is possible for Dr Connealy to bill these out properly without burdening us with the process.  Any experience with them on this board?

Thanks again

 

 

jt25741
Posts: 22
Joined: Apr 2012

To my understanding the following additional codes are important, supporting the comments Tethys made:

 

Diagnosis Code: Fatigue 780.7, Ovarian Cancer: V10.43  or 183.0

 

This make sense to you Tethys and others?    Please correct otherwise.   Thanks.

Tethys41's picture
Tethys41
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sep 2010

Yes, this makes sense, as you need valid diagnosis codes to relate the IV codes to.  I'm glad this information has helped.  Good luck to you and your wife.

jt25741
Posts: 22
Joined: Apr 2012

This thread really saved me from desparation after a google search.   I recently found that the following codes do not necessarily apply...so check your insurance directly on this (UHC in my case):

96550 represents port access ---- this CPT code has been merged with 96365 and 96366, and is no longer billable. 

J7050 represents the IV fluid ---   this represents saline solution only according to insurance, and in our case the Vit C is mixed with distilled water for ideal osmology -- so technically this is not a billable code either.   

But the other codes are valid, and will generate some reimbersement, so I still have to wait and see what this means as far as net-payment amount from us vs insurance.

Now hoping this stuff does some real good.

 

 

 

Tethys41's picture
Tethys41
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sep 2010

The good news is that I have my insurance through UHC as well, and they have been very good at paying for these. I was getting it thorugh my port, thus the port access code.  There's really nothing on my claims that indicate this is an IV of vitamin C, just an IV to address the codes you indicated.  I don't know if they would balk if they knew what was in it.

There's information regarding case studies involving IVC at this website:

http://www.riordanclinic.org/search/?q=IV+vitamin+C

As far as being effective in controlling any individual's cancer, it will depend on what is driving the tumor.  IVC is very effective as an antioxidant, and yes it is fine to use antioxidants during chemo as long as it is timed correctly.  It is also beneficial if the tumor is driven by VEGF, or angiogenesis.  If the imbalances that are driving the tumor are not ones address by IVC, it will certainly be less effective at fighting the tumor, but it will help protect normal cells from chemo, regardless.

 

jt25741
Posts: 22
Joined: Apr 2012

Regarding the port code with UHC, they told us this code used to be billable, but is no longer.   I hope this doesn't effect the reimbersment amount too much.     We shall see.  If you have a more recent experience where the code is actually payed, please do let me know and we will ask for another person to talk to (sometimes wrong information is given out by UHC to us)

 

Do you think your cancer was diminished greatly by Vit C IV, or do you have a feeling it just supported your immunity and other factors contributed to the cancer reduction mostly?   just curious.

Thanks again

Jim

Tethys41's picture
Tethys41
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sep 2010

Jim,

For me, personally, I think the IVC was a life saver.  My debulking surgery was suboptimal, and my surgeon gave me less than a year to live, with little possibility of remission.  I achieved remission 8 months after my surgery and have been NED for over 3 years.  I feel the IVC helped to make remission possible for me.  I do still get regular doses of IVC.  After the fact, I've learned that VEGF is a big factor in my body and was driving the tumor.  Therefore, I believe it helped in my outcome.  I also was able to receive two additional doses of chemo, because the IVC was keeping me strong.  My CA-125 continued to drop during the two additional chemos, and it has since never gone back up to the level it was prior to those two additional doses. 

jt25741
Posts: 22
Joined: Apr 2012

Tethys, thanks for your additional impressions.   On Inspire and other places, I have read about people who have responded so well to it, but others who have not.    One lady didn't respond to chemo, but Vit C literally was the chemo agent for her that put her in remission.    I do see the efficacy is quite variable, but with the common base-line supportive effects.

The fact you were able to take those two extra doses....was indeed likely critical.    My wife didnt know about Vit C at the time of front-line.....and ever since the first chemo, the CA125 has not come back to full "normal"  due to toxicity effects of chemo.   Consequently cancer has become increasingly resistant to treatment as overall health has declined.      If she could have tolerated it more initially for complete response, and a couple extra chemo rounds, things may have been different.   

It is too early to see how Vit C is working on my wife now (1.5 weeksand 5 doses.... Unfortunately, Avastin had little effect on her.... and that is a strong VEGF targeted therapy.   So, from that standpoint, perhaps it shouldn't work.      We are/were hoping for some direct cytotoxic effects of Vit C therapy in conjunction with a CDK 4,6 inhibitor she is on now.

Thanks again

Tethys41's picture
Tethys41
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sep 2010

Jim,

I think the best approach for some patients, especially those who are facing more chemo, or are not responding well to it, is the BioFocus test.  It is a blood test conducted in Germany on a blood sample shipped to their lab.  It will identify not only the most effective chemotherapy choices for a particular patient, but will also identify the most effective integrative therapies for that individual as well.  My naturopath has been using the test for many years.  My gyn/onc's colleague has just started ordering it for some of her patients, as she has seen the effectiveness of the results the test yields. 

jt25741
Posts: 22
Joined: Apr 2012

Hi Tethys

We were about to pull the trigger on a test from RGCC (Greek Test), but lost some faith in their external customer relations and lack of follow-up with our inquiries.   Plus, information I learned through research scientists that have been helping us at Clearity, suggest that RGCC may not work for Ovarian.   In particular, EpCAM is a marker they screen CTC for in the blood.     However, OVC cells rarely express EpCAM, thus even if they were circulating, detection of them is unlikely using this process.   

Do you know if EpCAM is also used at BioFocus?    Does BioFocus work with insurance, like UHC?

Thanks so much for the new idea!

Jim

 

 

Tethys41's picture
Tethys41
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sep 2010

Jim,

I can't answer your question about EpCAM directly, but what I can tell you is that the bulk of my naturopath's patients are ovarian cancer patients, and she uses this test on many of them.  That being said, however, I do know that occasionally a patient's test results come back inconclusive because the lab was unable to locate and CTCs in the sample.  The bulk of patients she uses this test on, however, do get results from the lab.  I only know of one patient, who has had this test paid for by insurance, and that is the one who saw my gyn/onc's collegue and she ordered the test for the patient.  I think whether insurance may cover the test, or not, is based on who orders it for the patient.  That particular patient has also had IPT chemo paid for, because her doctor ordered that treatment, based on the results of the Biofocus test.  The Clearity test does not test the patient's cell reponse to any therapies.  They do a molecular profile of the cells in the tumor and cross check it with their database.  From that information, they choose a chemo protocol based on what most patients with that molecular profile have responded to in the past.  Either way, I think it is important to identify what is contributing to tumor growth in the patient.  These issues need to be addressed to help the body heal and to stay healthy.  If you successfully remove the tumor, regardless of the approach, and do not adjust body imbalances, the cause of the cancer has not been addressed, which increases the risk of recurrance.

 

 

 

jt25741
Posts: 22
Joined: Apr 2012

Thanks for the info on Biofocus.   Mentioning Clearity was not to compare the two approaches, but to say that they have some extremely knowledgeable PhDs working there...that actually understand this stuff better than I do. Wife used them for first recurrence therapy.    They also care so much about patients that they don't deploy coin operated email screeners for their patients, so they are accessible.    They have been helpful in explaining some of this in the past (RGCC for instance), and I am awaiting some feedback now on this test.  As to the tests they farm out, they use Caris Lifescienes among others for the actual testing.     For my wife, there is no current sample that has relevance to test --- so this is why this blood test has some additional appeal currently.

Good news about Insurance possibly paying.  I will work with our Drs to see if they can get this going...addreses some of the risk of unknown efficacy.   I did send an email to Dr Prix at Biofocus, but no reply yet.   Thanks again.

BonnieJ1
Posts: 3
Joined: Jan 2012

Hello, everyone. I am new to this thing called UPSC having been diagnosed Jan 3, after a "routine" hysterectomy in Dec.2011 because of post menopausal bleeding. I had a CT scan in mid Jan. that revealed 2 enlarged lymphs. Second surgery is Feb 17 when the Dr will go in to find anything that was missed by the first surgery. Chemo and radiation have been mentioned. I am sure I will learn more soon.

I have always leaned toward "alternative" medicine and have known about IV-C therapy for several years. Who knew it might become one of my options! I recently contacted a doctor who was a leader in IV therapy, who gave me a web site to learn of Drs. in my area who currently do the IV-C work. So here is the web address: www.acam.org This stands for American College for Advancement in Medicine. Hope you can find someone in your area to consult.

The doctor also gave me the web site for a company that sells liposomal Vit C that you take orally in high doses without causing diarrhea. www.livonlabs.com It is rather expensive. So another site is http://www.naturalnews.com/034591_vitamin_C_mega-dose_healing.html that actually shows you how to make the liposomal VitC in your own kitchen. This may not be for everyone, but I have been taking 15,000mg of Vit C for 2 weeks now and feel good. My oncologist thinks I am wasting my money, but this is cheap complimentary healthcare for me.

I hope this helps anyone looking for some further Vit C information.

I so appreciate Tethys41 for sharing her information concerning the codes needed to work with the insurance companies. Thank you again.

Blue skies, Bonnie

pipscout
Posts: 20
Joined: Jul 2010

Hello,

I wanted to share that I've been doing Vitamin C IVs since last summer, overlapping with my chemotherapy treatments. I do have to pay for them out of pocket unfortunately, so tend to just go about three times a month. My daughters helped me to do a fundraising site at youcaring.org and my family and friends helped with the cost ($150 each treatment). I also use my FlexSpending account from work and haven't had any problem getting reimbursed as a health cost. There is one naturopath in my town that does the IV treatment.

I don't know how/if it will diminish the cancer. (I currently am having progression and am going to need to switch chemotherapies). However, I feel like it has definitely helped with feeling well and resilient through treatment. Improved energy and I didn't have problems with my blood counts this time around. I also avoided the colds and flu all around me this winter. I really do think it makes a difference in that way.

The other thing to consider is the time commitment. Since I am still working it is another appointment to fit into the week. Usually takes about 2 and a half hours each treatment.

My best to all, Teresa

Sara Zipora's picture
Sara Zipora
Posts: 227
Joined: Sep 2010

Asked a much published and forever reaserching Prof friend of mine to check Drisko research. Below his response :

Drisko's work..not at all impressive..the animal studies from Michael Levine (NIH) are very weak.. this has been around since 2005..some publication in human cancer would have been published by now, had real effects been observed...
  So..I would not advise pursuing this route
 
for what it's worth always seeking better mouse trap too,
Sara
Sara Zipora's picture
Sara Zipora
Posts: 227
Joined: Sep 2010

Asked a much published and forever reaserching Prof friend of mine to check Drisko research. Below his response :

Drisko's work..not at all impressive..the animal studies from Michael Levine (NIH) are very weak.. this has been around since 2005..some publication in human cancer would have been published by now, had real effects been observed...
  So..I would not advise pursuing this route
 
for what it's worth always seeking better mouse trap too,
Sara
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