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I have just read "being fat promotes angiogenesis" and mushrooms, greens, onions, berries help fight it

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

I am satisfied that my healthy diet now vegan is based on science and sound arguments.
just sharing these below, in case other crc are interested in this area.

I am reading super immunity by joel fuhrman.

anyone else got this, probably unlikely its hot off the presses, so the research is current as of printing.

this book advocates a vegan diet based on science to fight cancer, so stop reading if thats an issue for you. keep on reading if this if your interested. i am not going to respond to negative arguments , it just takes too much time and energy.

paraphassing page 73
fat secretes angiogenesis-promoting compounds, its a complex process that i won't retype.
their are lots of anti-angiogenic foods.

most of these are on my diet. mushrooms are top of the list.

i was told to really loose weight by naturopath 11 months ago.
well i am down to 90Kg from 137kg just before dx. thats 47 kg or over 100 pounds.
still got 7 kgs to go.

as i understand it, getting fatter encourages angiogenesis around the area where fat is being deposited.

the science and arguments in the pages 73 to 75 basically tie exercise therapy and diet together.

being thin is unfriendly to cancer is the main point i am trying to stress.

if you eat any cancer fighting foods, this book takes this to a whole other level.
i cannot put it down

hugs,
pete

ps this is a real interesting talk, its not just this book, checkout the angiogenesis foundation, this is a ted conference, so i hope its considered reputable.
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/02/blood-vessels-key-to-cancer/

http://www.angio.org/

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010
John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

So when I post information regarding the "fact" that nothing has
improved with cancer therapy for the past 40 years, and I
reference the data from a "blog"..... That's considered inferior
data. But when it's posted in favor of the cancer industry,
and the references come from a "blog", that's real data.

Life's funny, ain't it?

My best to youse all.

John

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Was that the author of your "blog" was selling services that depended on you believing in his point of view. A conflict of interest you have been quick to raise yourself on more than one occasion.

In all good humor, humph right back at you.

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Since you are accusing me of being duplicitous and inconsistent, and since most will not remember the previous kerfuffle you referred to, here is a little background on your "blogger"

Ralph Moss - cancerdecisions.com
Ralph Moss was the science writer who took it upon himself to make public preliminary mouse studies of Laetrile at MSKCC. At this time he has makes a living selling the Moss Report (his "blog") for about $270 per article. He does post some things at no charge, but the appearance that those are teaser articles to get you to pay for one of his reports is hard to get past. Here is a sample:
Sample Colon Cancer Report
He also sells access to his current, smaller articles at a rate of $9.95 to $19.95:
Moss Report - Current Topics

Now, the blogger that I linked to does have ads on his site. At my last visit they included an ad for a Las Vegas hotel and a CD by Michael Buble. Since his writings do not seem to cover recommendations for Vegas hotels, or the appropriate lounge music to use when you are in a romantic mood, I find nothing that can be viewed as a conflict of interest. His blog also carries the following disclaimer:

"Disclaimer

This is a personal web log, reflecting the sometimes prickly opinions of its author. Statements on this blog do not represent the opinions of anyone other than the author... 

...In addition, Orac has been funded over the last decade by institutional funds, theDepartment of Defense, the National Cancer Institute, and various cancer charities. He currently receives no funding from pharmaceutical companies. Indeed, so bereft of pharmaceutical funding is poor, poor Orac that before his talks, when he is required to make his disclosures of conflicts of interest, he often jokes that no pharmaceutical company is interested enough in his research to want to give him any money." 

Moss, on the other hand, carries no such disclaimer.

I like you, and in the past your advice has been helpful to me as I am sure it has been to others. Where you and I get into trouble are in cases like this where you are a bit loose with the facts, and sometimes (again in this case) where your statements could be interpreted as personal attacks. Most of the time I write the attacks off to your sharp sense of humor (something we share to a certain degree), though at others it has happened to cut a bit too deeply.

All of that said, I hope you are doing well,

Blake

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

the blog is about The spontaneous regression of breast cancer?
it takes a shot at joel.
but his book and the studies of anti angiogenic foods was the point of this post.

just what specific foods can help our bodies heal and fight cancer naturally.
tumeric, tomatoes, blueberries, flakseed.

everything that comes through my lips to my digestive system is anticancer.

i hugged another mans wife today when noone else did, she was crying, she hugged me back.

he was sitting in his wheel chair, he gave me the biggest smile and turned his thumb up. a great positive gesture. he cannot talk anymore, has weeks to live. i don't even know what his cancer is,but he was at the meditation support group this morning. they have changed my life for ever.

is being thin, no fat a worthwhile goal for all of us crc's ?
i was told yes by naturopaths, nothing by onc.

if i swap the fast food fries and shake and have broccoli, mangoes, mung beans, pawpaw, flak seed, tomatoes, beetroot, lettuce, red onion, broccoli sprouts, mushroom.

i believe my lunch above helps me get thinner, helps my body have the nutrients it needs to be strong for my treatment.

I view my exercise and my diet and meditation as an extension of my treatment.

are you aware of all the lifestyle intervention trials running around the world as we speak on crc, well i am. i am just doing it myself.

by all means add to the conversation in a constructive way, keep it focused on the subject at hand, which is simply anti angiogenic foods, what about the angiogenic foundation ?

some say we are what we eat, i think its to limited, we are also what we say, write, breathe and think.

science based medicine can only take us so far, it took science based medicine 100 to beleive in washing hands, decent hygenie.

why not cherry pick from pubmed every study that got potential benefits for us crc's.

hugs,
Pete

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

and its quality matters (not all sources are equal, kind of like opinions). If the source has a history of misrepresenting information, or of just being unreliable, it should not be trusted, even if it happens to be good info (kind of like the boy who cried wolf). This is not meant as an insult Pete, just an observation:

You tend to expound on whatever was the last thing you heard. At some point, you hear something new and move on.

As to PubMed, it is a great resource, but it does not filter for quality of study, or discriminate as to the journal in which it was published. I have come to prefer reviews, and phase 3 human trials before making a judgement as to whether something is good or bad. As a for instance, Lauretta's posted the EPIC study, which showed a higher rate of CRC in those following a vegetarian diet (as well as a lower overall cancer rate on the same diet). My response noted I found the data interesting, but there may be problems with the way the study was structured, or in how it drew its conclusions. I consider myself fairly intelligent, but will wait for others who are more qualified than I to review that study before I change my diet (of course, that horse has left the barn for me anyway, nothing I do is going to change my CRC risk, or my risk of recurrence).

Lastly, the title of your thread implies the main issue is fat. We all agree that a healthy weight is probably the single best thing that can be done to prevent cancer. Whether you get there with a vegan diet, exercising, or by following Atkins is entirely up to you.

yoga
Posts: 87
Joined: Feb 2011

Thanks for the information Pete. I am always interested in reading new things - agree or not. I do wonder about the whole thin thing . . . . I have always been very slim (it is in the genes!) . . . . didn't help me much. I do eat lots of greens, onions and berries so guess I am doing something right. As for mushrooms, I have been really trying to go down that path, but it is a slow one for me. I have thought aboug going vegetarian, but I am allergic to all nuts and soy and most shellfish/fish, so I don't think I could do it. That said, I do ensure that I eat mostly fruits and veggies with only organic chicken, salmon and some low fat organic dairy.
Keep posting new ideas - you never know when something is going to be a good fit for somebody.
yoga jo

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Annabelle41415
Posts: 4309
Joined: Feb 2009

I've been thin all my life and always ate mushrooms, onions salads, tomatoes everyday and still got cancer. Sometimes I've got a really hard time believing in what people claim but if it works for you or them then I say go for it.

Kim

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

Sometimes I worry that all the emphasis on diet and exercise can bring guilt on those who didn't eat and exercise "perfectly". So it is good to hear from people like you that did do all of the "healthy" things and got cancer anyway. Not that I am glad that you got cancer!! But for me it is a sign that we don't have the answers yet and need to keep looking for the actual causes and treatment of cancer. Also, I worry that this emphasis will cause more people to, like Steve Jobs, reject conventional methods of treatments for the alternatives to the detriment of their health. So, again, thank you for speaking up(And I don't mean "speaking up" like my granddaughter did, who when instructed to do so, lifted up her face and spoke in the same tone!!)

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Annabelle41415
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Yea I've never been one for large quantity of red meats, never fried foods, always well balance meals so if someone claims it works for them I'm glad, but I'll still continue to exercise because that does make me feel better and love to walk. I've always been a veggie person though - just would pick a salad over desert but that's just me :)

Kim

John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

Kim -

Re:
"I've been thin all my life and always ate mushrooms, onions
salads, tomatoes everyday and still got cancer. "

We should keep in mind, that all store-bought veggies and fruits,
and of course all meats... are treated at the farm and during
processing for sale. Eating all that was once said to be good
for us, may very well now, be killing us.

Pesticides remain in the ground, and each crop multiplies the
amount that remains. Mixtures of pesticides for each different
crop, along with chemicals to enhance growing, all add to the
unknown variable of toxins; how can anyone know what the
interactions will result in, when no records of chemicals used
have been recorded.

And now nearly all countries are irradiating the food products,
with many of the countries having no legal restriction to hold
to specific limits of radiation used. That also adds to the
carcinogenic effect of our food products.

It may not be "just one peach", but the cumulative effect of all
the processing of everything we eat, veggies, fruits, meat, fish....

But.... there are depictions of humans with tumors, on cave walls....

Stay well, Kim!
(John)

To others (you know who you are):

It bothers me that there are some here that fear not doing chemo
so much, that they denounce anything and anyone, that suggests
that there is something better and safer than chemo and radiation.

They seem to feel that they must scream from the rooftops,
that anyone trying anything other than chemo and radiation
is placing their life in extreme peril !

And as a user of other than chemo/radiation, I find myself
looking for that door that the others like me have walked
out through...

The others got tired of fighting the industry's brain washed,
and gave up.

I sincerely hate to "give up". I hate watching people die; of reading
the sad news, month after month after month...

I hate the thought of not telling about another way that works,
especially when the so-called "proven way" is failing them,
and they have no place but hospice to go.

I'm only human, just as the others like me are. I'm tired of arguing
against the industry, and against all those that believe so
much in the industry's answer to cancer.

It's almost six years for me... my "luck" isn't going to last forever...

Golly gee. I sure wish I did chemo instead of those stupid herbs.

</sarcasm>

Happy, cheerful, and healthy thoughts to all!

John

Annabelle41415's picture
Annabelle41415
Posts: 4309
Joined: Feb 2009

You are right about the pesticides. Just don't think they thought much about using those as being so bad.

Be well yourself too :) Kim

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Pete has done chemo, and his treatment does not recommend any further therapies administered by an oncologist. His posts are not meant to advise that someone use another treatment modality, just lifestyle choices for one who is trying to prevent remission.

When we correct Pete, or call into question one of his sources, we are not

"...denounce(ing) anything and anyone, that suggests

that there is something better and safer than chemo and radiation." 

, nor are we challenging him based on "fear". I do wish you would stop using that word, it is demeaning to those you disagree with, and you tend to use it to imply that anyone who does not follow your path is doing so out of an emotional response rather than a reasoned one, and it can be interpreted as a personal attack.

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

Did I see a gauntlet flying through the air?! Thought I saw one and decided to take up the challenge. I am going to explain my position and I have to warn you, it is going to be a long post. You might want to take a nap and then fill up on something high caffeine because I have a lot to say.

First, I want it to be known that I HATE chemo--and I mean hate. Chemotherapy took all but one of my children from me and my life's dream was to have a large family. I wanted children from the time I was a small child and chemo robbed me of that. Not to mention the difficulties that our marriage went through because of the infertility--I hate chemo for that as well.

Jake had cancer, Hodgkin's disease, 34 years ago when I was pregnant with our only child. He was 24 and I was 22. They staged him at IV because he had some spots in his lungs that they were not sure about. They gave him massive amounts of chemo--nitrogen mustard, adriamycin, vincristine and a few others--because he was so young and healthy, and they really wanted to save him. I watched him puke his guts out, first food, then blood, then bile because they had nothing to counteract the nausea. I saw his veins being destroyed by the chemo because they didn't use ports in those days wondering if his heart and liver and other organs were being destroyed at the same time. Our GP gave him his drugs because we had no oncologist in the area at that time. Jake worked almost full time through ten months of this hell and by the time it was over he could barely do anything he was so weak. We didn't live near family and had no close friends at the time. We were each other's best friends. I shouldered this by myself while pregnant except for a month after our daughter was born when our mothers came up to help. Again I was 22.

Obviously he was cured of the cancer. Am I grateful to the chemo for that? No, because the chemo had nothing to do with it. Many won't believe me about this but I don't care. I was there. I saw it happen and heard the amazement of the doctors. Jake was still in the hospital while they were trying to figure out what kind of treatment to give him. One evening after I left to go back to my aunt's house, he called me in shock. He had had a phenomenal occurrence while lying in his hospital bed. He was having deep anxiety about all that was taking place, so frightened of all that we were learning. While lying there, he saw a cloud come over his bed, a hand come out of the cloud and touch his shoulder. He was immediately calm and at peace and when he called I knew that SOMETHING had happened because of the tone of his voice. Now you must understand, we were not religious freaks--I had barely come to accept that a being as God may possibly exist by that time and Jake was not a pious person by any means even though he had gone to a Catholic school. How do we know it was God? Well, the one thing that Jake got besides the peace was a huge desire to read the Bible--he would read it at work when no one was looking and could not get enough of it. Scripture became his passion--a secret one because he certainly didn't want anyone to think that he was a religious nut!

Now fast forward two months to his first checkup after two months of chemo. They did an X-ray and were shocked. His fist sized tumors were gone--no where to be seen. The doctors couldn't believe it. They said that chemo doesn't work that way. That tumors DO NOT go away that quickly. One of them even threw out the term miracle. Did we understand what had happened? No, we were too stupid to equate the disappearance of his tumors with his vision in the hospital. We didn't realize for years that his cancer was cured by God. So, eight more months of hell were endured. We made a pact that if we had to decide about whether or not to take chemo again we would make sure that the statistics were on our side or we would not go through that horror ever again.

Did it affect us and how we thought? Most definitely. One always wonders why a person gets cancer and we were no exceptions. We came up with two possibilities. First, Jake's mom was an X-ray technician in the early 1950's. She continued her job while she was pregnant, exposing Jake to radiation all the time she was pregnant because no shields or anything were used and she stood in the room while the X-rays were done. Second, we bought a new trailer house to live in a year an a half before Jake got cancer. The formaldehyde in it was so strong that our eyes would water every time our furnace came on--which was a lot in Montana winters. We would have the same problem every time we came back to our house after being away for a few hours. It was horrible. Those two possibilities did not endear me to the medical profession or to the use of unsafe chemicals.

We determined that we were going to live as cancer-free as we possibly could and we delved into it wholeheartedly. We grew our own food--meat, vegetables, milk, eggs, we did it all except for fruit. Never got too far with that. We gardened organically, using the manure from our cows that ate the hay that we grew on our farm. The only non-organic things we did were to put a small amount of commercial fertilizer on our field and buy grain for our milk cow that was not organic. I even bought organic wheat and ground the flour and made our bread.

I grew up with the knowledge of organic farming because of my mother. Her father had mental problems when she was young and he determined that it was the chemicals (DDT, etc) that he was spraying on farmers' crops that were causing his problems(don't know whether that was true or not). This was in the 1930's so my family's commitment to healthy food goes back a long way.

A few years after Jake's cancer we built a house. We used knotty pine throughout the entire house. There were almost no sheets of plywood to be found in it. Jake and my dad cut the trees from my parents' property, sawed the lumber on my dad's mill and we built it with our own hands. A cancer free home.

We lived in that house for over 25 years but sold it in order to move closer to our daughter and her family. We were in heaven because we were able to buy a larger property in the heart of grain-growing country so I could foresee the possibility of fulfilling my dream of growing pretty much all of our food, and our animals', on our farm. The only negative was that we bought a modular home to put on the property so had to deal with the chemicals in the home again. Not nearly as severe as our trailer had been but we can still smell them when we shut up the house and leave for a few days.

A couple of years ago, the granddaughter of some friends of ours was diagnosed with neuroblastoma. I read about it on the internet. The statistics were horrible--something like a 10% chance of living over five years with her stage IV diagnosis. I remembered my commitment to making decisions on the statistics. We watched her go through horrible treatments but the cancer kept coming back and coming back. It was horrible. She just died a couple of weeks ago. She was six years old.

Oh, yes, one of Jake's cousins also had a daughter with neuroblastoma about 25 years ago. They had even less success with it then than today. They chose no treatment. She died in two months.

Now we are up to Jake's new diagnosis of cancer. I again remembered our commitment to statistics. I read the statistics and passed them on to Jake--his were worse than normal stage IV colon cancer because of his signet ring cell diagnosis. I was devastated but remembered our commitment. However, I did have the additional knowledge of the chemo that my dad went through for colon cancer and it was nothing like Jake's had been so I knew that not all chemo was as horrific as that which Jake and the little girl endured.

I knew that this was not my decision to make. I gave my thoughts on it but the decision was Jake's. He decided to take the chemo. I began a vast search on the internet for all things concerning cancer, chemotherapy, alternatives, etc. And of course you get a lot of people's input as well. People sending us bottles of pills, calling with information about this alternative treatment, that non-mainstream doctor, etc. etc. We would get excited and then I would research. Never could find the one thing that seemed to have evidence to back up the claims. I wanted to desperately because I HATE chemo. But I haven't found it. The best I have found is the people on these sites who have taken chemo and out-lived the statistics. I asked one person who juices and does all of that if she could share with me twelve people that she knows about with active cancer who used her methods and had their cancer cease growing or disappear. Haven't gotten those names from her yet.

So, John, I am going to make the same request of you. Can you tell me of twelve people who have had active cancer and used only TCM to make their cancer go away? I read the sites you gave links to previously but I did not see stories of people with active cancer who had it cured by TCM. Most of the sites stated that TCM was not to be used alone but in conjunction with conventional treatment to temper the side effects. In China they use conventional treatments as well--have seen studies from there in my research. You see, I HATE chemo, I know what it can do to individuals and families and I want desperately to find something else that works better, but I can't go on one or two examples. I have read that many accounts of people who did nothing and their cancer went away. So, John, if you have that information, please share it with us. We would love an alternative to this chemo that we hate.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

i'll let john reply, but just wanted to thankyou for sharing your story, its amazing.
John has shared his story, and his experiences mainly with tcm. As one of the few here who takes tcm everyday as prescribed by my chinese oncologist i wanted to add.

i have met people who have far outlived their western doctors useby dates. so many personal stories, i met them in the waiting rooms, i did not ask for their name and addresses. they tried chemo and still had challenges, for them tcm worked and still works.

we all have treatment choices ? everyday , everynight i am fighting my cancer, trying to have a healthy life.

asking for 12 people for juicing or tcm is the number you require. for me the number could be zero, 1, or 100. you are free to ask for the proof i guess you are seeking, if you don't get the answer you need. then i guess you make your decision. it does not diminish what other people believe or have faith in.

I have faith in juicing and tcm for myself and thats good enough for me.

Its strange the difference, I love my folfox, its given me a shot at life, the TCM practioneers i visited befoe surgery and radiation said use the western treatments and tcm at the same time and thats what i did. I followed my gut feel, that all any of us can do with the choices before us.

hugs,
pete

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

"i have met people who have far outlived their western doctors useby dates..." 

Seems to me everyone here who got a "use by" date has outlived it. Those stories are a dime a dozen, and could be as related to the fact they all wore comfortable shoes....

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pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

blake,

we maybe the same height but our experiences and values seem to be very different.

my aunty val was given 3 months and died that afternoon, about a year ago, its posted here lung cancer got her,

my friend athol died of lung cancer and went downhill very fast, faster than he expected or we were told.

i collect real life success and failure stories. did you see the post they are offering tcm out of the cancer center where i goto support groups.

its your choice to walk past the tcm door and just goto the oncologist door. i went through both doors. we own our own choices here. you choice is yours, mine is mine. how much influence your decisions have on mine is a complex process. as you know i often read and listen to what you say, link. i sometimes agree, sometimes disagree. going through the thought processes and to some extent being challenged by alternative views helps me be focused.

the value of the stories are a dim a dozen, my stories are so real they are price, they help me to be the survivor that i am, with the will, the discipline and the hope that together diet, exercise, tcm, supplements can help my body be as healthy as possible. synergy.

hugs,
pete

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

A story for Pete

A long term stage 4 survivor, and someone with a bit of vegetarian street cred.

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

A story for Pete

A long term stage 4 survivor, and someone with a bit of vegetarian street cred.

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

For me, I cannot recommend something to my husband that hasn't had some track record of success. Everyone that I know personally that has tried an alternative method has died. Maybe they didn't do it right or waited too long or whatever, I don't know but they died. I have several family members and friends who have used conventional Western medicine and survived cancer. Not all but several. I probably have 12 members of my own family who have survived cancer so it wouldn't seem that twelve would be a large number to ask as a recommendation for any particular alternative treatment. If I am going on "faith" with no evidence of benefit, I will do nothing! It is much easier and I have heard of people whose cancer just spontaneously disappeared. I don't understand why that is such a controversial thing to ask for concrete evidence of success. To me it is common sense and scientific!

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tanstaafl
Posts: 977
Joined: Oct 2010

It's not such a controversial thing to ask for concrete evidence of success, just the threshold can be too expectant, especially for free, - too intrusive, too expensive, too distant in time, as well as many proposed answers being nonexistent, or nonsense.

Our technical resources, capabilities, experience, and personalities shape how close we're willing to play it to the bone. Refusal to take a risk can sometimes be more risky.

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pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

dear laurettas,

we drive our own buses, we kick people off. we follow different routes, we even have different goals. if i drop dead in 10 seconds thats game set and match i have had a great life. i am practising the idea of detached gambling, experimenting on myself, following the advice of petria king and ian gawler to large extents, but to be honest upping the bet considerably. i just had a brussel sprout for dessert, have you ever chewed raw garlic ? it tastes like poison.

we are all different, i recognise my approach as unique, but good for me.

when i look at our society i don't see alot of common sense ie being fat kills, why beat crc and drop dead of stroke and heart attack. from where i see the good old western world not much common sense. our eating and drinking behaviour means we invite cancer, and a host of other illnesses. even being a healthy weight puts you into the minority now days.

science is fantastic, but not perfect, it knows less 1% of what knowable.
so before science was our beautiful planet, we were running around the forest eating apples and nuts and making babies. sounds pretty good to me.
i see a huge benefit for me in hardcore vegan anticancer foods, undoing heart disease, living a longer life just and giving body the best chance to lower my crc recurrence risk and that of secondary cancers caused by chemo and radio and other sources of genetic damage.

i just really like reading joel's book, its got scientific detail i like, i understand and sounds reasonable to me.

your sweet caring about what you recommend for your husband, my wife confessed that she had a big chocolate bar and that she had broken our diet. did i jumped out of the bath and punched her out ? no. i just smiled and said was it nice, she smiled back!

my life fighting cancer is fun, i enjoy juicing, and meditating under trees, discussing all the science with doctors and with other cancer patients and my friends and that includes everyone on forum 128.

their is a big book on spontaneous remissions, its been studied in detail. really interesting read. survivors have some things in common. i have those attributes.

i wish i had concrete evidence to give you, but i don't. i don't have the time to research all the references in joels book and then fight tooth and nail over each studies strong points and weaknesses. its enough that i am convinced for me.

i have faith in god, in life, in myself, in my doctors. my faith covers all those areas that science does not cover.

i bet on long shots, not sure things, i embrase uncertainty as its the nature of our existence. its so much fun running my own research project.

it seems ironic that us crc's will inject some untried and untested experimental chemo drug rather than a hardcore anticancer diet and lifestyle regime.

hugs,
pete

laurettas
Posts: 372
Joined: May 2011

for your reply. I understand and appreciate your opinion. I think that eating healthy and not being overweight are good things. However, I don't necessarily agree with a lot of people on what is healthy eating. I don't think we are designed to be vegetarians--too hard to get enough protein and other nutrients that way. I also believe that we should be able to live eating what is available to us locally and not have to buy things that have been grown or produced from thousands of miles away. My grandparents and many other relatives lived into their 80's and 90's and never bought exotic foods and supplements. So I know it is possible.

You are also in a different position than many on this board. Many, like my husband, are staring at active cancer in their bodies. Lots of them are watching tumors growing and new ones coming periodically. Might give you a little different perspective if that is what you were facing.

I don't think that asking for the cases of a dozen people who have overcome cancer by diet or TCM or whatever is a lot to ask. I could ask a lot of people and they could name many, I am sure, who have survived cancer using conventional medicine. Here is a short list for me: Mother, melanoma; Father, colon; cousin, esophageal; two aunts, breast; Mother-in-law, lymphoma. And then my husband who was cured by an act of God. I am sure there are more in my family that I am just not thinking of right now. And the list of friends and acquaintances would be much, much larger.

Pete, I applaud you for losing the weight that you have. It is nothing but good for you and I need to lose quite a bit myself. I am sure that you feel years younger and can enjoy doing many more things. I have a brother who is about the weight that your were and he is missing out on a lot of life with his grandchildren because his weight limits what he can do. By the way he has been that way most of his life and is a smoker and still has no diseases at 63.

I guess what I would ask of those who are into the "alternative" medicines is that if they cannot produce concrete examples of numerous people who have overcome cancer using their method, that they not post on cancer sites promoting their program as a cure for cancer. Maybe as a supplement to conventional treatment, if they know it is safe, but do not tell people that it controls cancer if they don't have the numbers to back it up. People with cancer have enough challenges without having to try and research whether something that someone is promoting is actually helpful.

Thank you for this discussion. I really appreciate the civil manner in which we were able to discuss our differences--even during the full moon!

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

i would not recommend what i am doing for me for my wife, we can only make our treatment decisions for our selves. i would suggest it be researched, and explain my reasons.

with focus i believe super nutriticion is possible.

ie Mung beans are one of those foods that seem to be loved or hated but this humble food is actually a nutritional powerhouse and may actually be able to be defined as a superfood. Read on to learn more about their health benefits.

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What are Mung Beans?

Mung beans are part of the legume family and are a good source of protein. If they are combined with other cereals, a complete protein can be made. When sprouted, mung beans contain vitamin C that is not found in the bean itself.

Health Benefits of Mung Beans
Mung beans are rich in the following nutrients :

• protein
• vitamin C
• folic acid or folate
• iron
• zinc
• potassium
• magnesium
• copper
• manganese
• phosphorus
• thiamine

or breaky is mung beans, shitake mushies, steam tomatoes, lettce, brazil nuts, one organic free range egg and avocado. its an ok replacement for my fried eggs, bacon, hash browns and toast. a few here are heading down the food path as a treatment option.

i believe i am giving my body the best chance to heal and fight cancer, lots of studies here and their again not widely accepted. no pressure on anyone here, i just like to talk about my experience with crcs,s. so many of the crc's here with symptoms like nerve damage may benefit, our heart, etc etc.

i have noticed my transition to this my view of a healthier lifestyle over the 18 months since dx. often my treatment held back my diet, now i am finsihed and i hope for good.

i am in the 5th set, in the wimbleton grand final i am ahead 5 games to love in the last set. nethertheless i cannot take my eye off the ball. i can still loose if i give crc a chance, he is a very tough foe.

so i will never pressure , only suggest what i believe for me, thats enough, thats the still of this board. i can ask people to support me, i can share what i learn. i can invite people to contribute to my vegan clinical study that i am running on me. and just me. if others want to try it, that their decision.

i have enjoyed our discussion as well. not everyone tries the newest drug available, just like not everyone tries, tcm, juicing or vegan. some of us do, i want to share experience.

if we don't share, not preach then if something works we will miss out. the 7th day adventis are veg, they run the best integrative hospital in sydney where tcm if offered. i hope its possible to be healthy with this diet and life style.

all i can do is try, got a scan coming up next week.

hugs,
pete

Mung beans are also high in fibre, low in saturated fat, low in sodium, and contain no cholesterol. Because of the wide range of nutrients contained in mung beans, they offer a whole host of health benefits for the immune system, the metabolism, the heart and other organs, cell growth, protection against free radicals, and diseases such as cancer and diabetes.

The folic acid, or folate as it is also known, that is contained in mung beans helps to lower the risk of heart disease, fights birth defects, contributes to normal cell growth, helps in the metabolism of proteins, and is essential for the formation of red blood cells and for healing processes in the body. Another B vitamin, thiamine, is needed to ensure that the nervous system functions properly. It is also important for releasing energy from carbohydrates. Manganese is a trace mineral that is key for energy production and antioxidant defenses. It is also necessary for the metabolism of carbohydrates, fats, and proteins, and can be helpful for the brain and nerves.

Magnesium helps the veins and arteries to relax, lessening resistance and improving the flow of blood, oxygen, and nutrients throughout the body. Research has shown that a deficiency of magnesium is not only associated with a heart attack but that immediately following a heart attack, a lack of magnesium promotes free radical damage to the heart. The body requires copper in order to absorb iron and copper is also involved in the metabolism of protein. Iron helps to build resistance to stress and disease and it is essential for the formation of hemoglobin, which carries oxygen from the lungs to every cell in the body. It is also part of key enzyme systems for energy production and metabolism. Potassium is necessary for maintaining the acid-alkaline balance in the blood and for muscle contraction and a normal heart beat. Zinc is a well known immune system booster and can be helpful in fighting male infertility. Zinc aids healing processes in the body, growth, and tissue repair.

Like all legumes, mung beans are very high in fibre – more so than fruits and vegetables and even better than wholegrains. The soluble fibre in mung beans captures cholesterol in the intestines, keeps it out of the blood stream, and carries it out of the body.

Using Mung Beans
Mung beans can be used in a variety of ways. They can be sprouted, cooked, or ground to make flour. In some Asian countries, it is made into a paste, sweetened, and used as a filling in pastries, and in some countries it is even made into ice cream and lollipops. Mung beans should be washed well to remove impurities. They also contain very few oligosaccharides, the sugars responsible for flatulence.

Topic: Nutrition

hugs,
pete

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

now i am almost skinny i figured i could say that.
i just read and share, being fat is just wrong for me.

now i look good, i got the new small swimmers, i can walk around the pool and get my vitamin d.

i am not expecting any guarantees with my diet, but am optimistic from my studies.
the books focused on specific anticancer foods, back by research.

did you eat raw broccoli, carrots, brussel sprouts.

raw brussel sprouts are my new apples. I am going for it. My bm's are getting better with the green sludge i drink daily now. just google vital green for details.

http://www.vitalgreens.com/
these guys are local for me, i know lef does this as well in the us.

and the bm's also benefit from yoga and my core strength training.

hugs,
Pete

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 977
Joined: Oct 2010

I don't worry so much about chemical residues on vegetables, not thrilled, try to keep them down, but it's the other much larger chemistry mistakes that bother me.

mushrooms, onions salads, tomatoes everyday...got cancer anyway"
Our diets themselves were and are so conflicted with major chemical mistakes, we are naifs lucky to dodge more than 2-3 bullets. If size of manufactured junk sections of the grocery stores translates to national diet, we're still in deep diet decline. Ditto weight gain and diabetes.

We've been raised on misinformation, yielding diets that were loaded with oxidized polyunsaturated fats, transfats, sugars, starches, thermally altered carbs and proteins, antibiotics, hormone disruptors (container), rogue elements (e.g. mercury, cadmium, lead, aluminum, fluorine), chemicals in water (phenols, solvents, chloro-) and chronic meds while grossly depleted on essential nutrients like long chain omega-3s, vitamin D3, magnesium, B complex, probably vitamin K and other near vitamin-like substances. Our biology is impressive that we're not more sick, or extinct. We've been pushing out some (bio)chemical boundaries for a long time.

We are only on the early edge of scientifically complete nutrition and toxicology, with nutrigenomics and metabolomics. The most important thing is to learn the best answers that we can, teach our kids, and help others.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

great answer. i agree 100%.
i get k2 from green vital.

hugs,
pete

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