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Probiotics

Rewriter's picture
Rewriter
Posts: 494
Joined: Dec 2009

I am wondering if any of you have strong feelings about probiotics and their usefulness in promoting overall health. In particular, I'm interested in facts or opinions about their ability to support or negate the impact of an alkaline or anticancer diet.

Currently, I am taking two capsules a day of Nutrition Now's PB8--voted #1 by Consumer Report. However, I read somewhere that probiotics may be contraindicated when following an alkaline diet.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Jill

jazzy1's picture
jazzy1
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mar 2010

Jill, did you ever gather any information from the group on this topic? If so, I'd love to hear from you or anyone else. I presently take a digestive enzyme with probiotics (powder_ but looking for suggestions on a different "company" product. Really hoping to find one which is added to water and consumed this way vs. adding more pill-type supplements.

Do probiotics contradict when following alkaline diet?

Appreciate any input as notice a few of you take some type of probiotic, knowing it's very important.

Hugs,
Jan

Rewriter's picture
Rewriter
Posts: 494
Joined: Dec 2009

Hi, Jan--

I still don't know whether probiotics are contraindicated when following an alkaline diet. Nevertheless, I continue to take them. The probiotics maintain the acid/alkaline balance in my stomach and my gut and help move food through my intestines, both of which are important to me. Still, I would love to know whether I can feel comfortable taking them while on an alkaline diet.

Can anyone help with this question?

bea-mil's picture
bea-mil
Posts: 106
Joined: Jun 2010

Pro-biotics - create lactic acids. They are not a problem when a person has
high alkaline reserves. If you are in an over acid condition, the ingestion of starches, can easily create indigestion (since the starch amylase enzyme digestion takes optimally
in an alkaline environment). Furthermore, most folks have digestive stress
where starch is combined with acid (even if the acid - vinegar, lemon, tomato
-was only in the side salad). Furthermore, for optimal health benefit do not
take probiotics with starchy meals - best at bedtime, on empty stomach or with
fruit, salad or a protein meal.

carolenk's picture
carolenk
Posts: 909
Joined: Feb 2011

Bea

Your explanation sounds good until one takes into consideration the hydrochloride acid normally produced in the stomach at meal time. If you really want to keep your probiotics away from acid, you are probably better off taking them away from food (a half hour before & 3 hours after meals).

Of course when one is on a drug to block stomach acid, the above info I wrote doesn't apply. I hope that is helpful.

Just an FYI: supplemental probiotics do not colonize the gut. Think of them as migrants who work but don't take up residence. Everyone has their own unique blend of bowel flora. If you want to support the health of your own intestinal bacteria, garlic ( cold-pressed with a high allicin content) taken on an empty stomach helps that happen.

Keep in mind, friendly bacteria need something to eat. So look up "prebiotics" and be sure your diet includes those foods or nutrients (slippery elm powder is one that comes to mind).

Another piece of trivia on this subject: the FDA is tightening up on what is allowed to be sold over the counter & there is a possibility that all probiotics will have to be on prescription. If that happens, think of fermented foods as an alternate source of probiotics (live-culture yogurt, kefir, raw sauerkraut & kim chi, and Kombucha tea).

I guess I've said enough.

jazzy1's picture
jazzy1
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mar 2010

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/probiotic-foods/

The link above lists 10 options for foods with probiotics. After reading up on this stuff, sounds quite complicated. The digestive enzyme type powder (BTW suggests taking on empty stomach preferrably before bed) I've been adding to my diet for 3 years has a few "unknown" ingredients, therefore, wanting to change.

Carolenk, your suggestion for cultured yogurt, kefir is on the list...got me thinking why not got back to foods. My nutritionist has always told me to go with foods as often as we can before adding more supplements. What do you use daily to fill the void for probiotics with foods????

Bia-Mil do you use foods or have a supplement?

Thanks,
Jan

bea-mil's picture
bea-mil
Posts: 106
Joined: Jun 2010

I take probiotics, enzymes and other supplements occasionally. I've got crazy about supplementation right after the surgery, when I was taking probably 12 different supplements daily. I was desperate and scared. Know after almost 2 years of searching, and reading I came up with the idea that the food and proper diet play the major role in our health. I always thought that I was eating healthy. Being vegetarian and buying almost everything organic I didn't see anything wrong with my diet, not before I discovered how important is food combination.
Read below info (from the net)and you will know what I'm talking about. You can search for more info on 'food combining' if the the subject sounds interesting to you.

"Digestive enzymes are secreted in very specific amounts and at very specific times. Different food types require different digestive secretions. Carbohydrate foods require carbohydrate-splitting enzymes, whereas protein foods require protein splitting enzymes, etc. It is the knowledge of the digestive process that has led many health practitioners to promote efficient food combing, the rules of which are briefly explained below:

1. Carbohydrate foods and acid foods should not be eaten at the same meal. Do not eat bread, rice or potatoes with lemons, limes, oranges, grapefruits, pineapples, tomatoes or other sour fruits. This is because the enzyme, ptyalin, acts only in an alkaline medium; it is destroyed even by a mild acid! Fruit acids not only prevent carbohydrate digestion, but they also produce a fermentation. Oxalic acid, for example, diluted to one part in 10,000 completely arrests the action of ptyalin. And, there is enough acetic acid in one teaspoon of wine vinegar to completely halt salivary digestion. Dr Percy Howe of Harvard Medical School states:

"Many people who cannot eat oranges at a meal derive great benefit from eating them fifteen to thirty minutes before the meal". Herbert Sheldon, author of 'The science and fine art of food and nutrition' reports: " I have put hundreds of patients , who have told me that they could not eat oranges or grapefruit, upon a diet of these fruits and they found that they could take them. Such people are in the habit of taking these foods with a breakfast of cereal, with cream and sugar, egg on toast, stewed prunes and coffee, or some similar meal."

Tomatoes should also never be combined with starchy food as the combination of the various acids in the tomato, which are intensified on cooking, are very much opposed to the alkaline digestion of starches. They may be eaten with leafy vegetables and fat foods.

What all this tends to mean is that people who say they cannot eat oranges or grapefruit as it gives them gas, could be blaming the fruit, when the problem may lie with the escape of starches and the bodies release of pancreatic juice and intestinal enzymes to break them down.

In cases where there is hyperacidity of the stomach there is great difficulty digesting starches. Fermentation and poisoning of the body occurs along with much discomfort. This is because the digestion of carbohydrates (starches and sugars) and of protein is so different, that when they are mixed in the stomach they interfere with the digestion of each other. An acid process (gastric digestion) and an alkaline process (salivary digestion) can not be carried on at the same time in an ideal way in the stomach. Before long, they cannot proceed at all , as the rising acidity of the stomach soon completely stops carbohydrate digestion. The highest efficiency in digestion demands that we eat in such a way as to offer the least hindrance to the work of digestion.

2. Do not eat a concentrated protein and a concentrated carbohydrate at the same meal. This means do not eat nuts, meat, eggs, cheese, or other protein foods at the same meal with bread, cereals, potatoes, sweet fruits. Cakes, etc. Candy and sugar greatly inhibit the secretion of gastric juice and markedly delay digestion and if consumed in large quantities can depress the stomach activity.

3. Do not eat two concentrated proteins at the same meal. Avoid nuts and meat, or eggs and meat, cheese and nuts, cheese and eggs, meat and milk, or eggs and milk or nuts at milk at the same meal. Milk, if taken at all, is best taken alone. The reason for avoiding eating these combinations is because each protein requires a specific character and strength of digestive juice to be secreted. Eggs require different timing in stomach secretions than do either meat or milk.

4. Do not eat fats with proteins. This means do not use cream, butter, oil, etc with meat, eggs, cheese, nuts, etc. Fat depresses the action of the gastric glands by delaying the development of appetite juices and inhibiting the pouring out of the proper gastric juices for meats, nuts, eggs or other protein. Fats may lower the entire gastric tone more than fifty per cent.

5. Do not eat acid fruits with proteins. This is to say, oranges, tomatoes, lemons, pineapples, etc., should not be eaten with meat, eggs, cheese or nuts. Acid fruits seriously hamper protein digestion and results in putrefaction. Milk and orange juice, while by no means an indigestible combination, is far from a good combination. Orange juice and eggs form an even worse combination.

6. Do not consume starch and sugars together. Jellies, jams, fruit, butter, sugar, honey, syrups, molasses, etc., on bread, cake, or at the same meal with cereals, potatoes, etc., or sugar with cereal, will produce fermentation. The practice of eating starches that have been disguised by sweets is also a bad way to eat carbohydrates. If sugar is taken into the mouth it quickly fills with saliva but no ptyalin is present which we know is essential for starch digestion.

7. Eat but one concentrated starch food at a meal. This rule is more important as a means of overeating than as a means of avoiding a bad combination. While overeating of starches may lead to fermentation, there is no certainty that the combination of two starches will do so.

8. Do not consume melons with any other foods. Watermelon, muskmelon, honeydew melon, cantaloupe and other melons should always be eaten alone. This is possibly due to the ease and speed in which melons decompose.

9. Milk is best taken alone or let alone. Milk is the natural food of the mammalian young, each species producing milk peculiarly and precisely adapted to the needs of its young. It is the rule that the young take the milk alone, not in combination with other foods. Milk does not digest in the stomach, but in the duodenum, hence in the presence of milk the stomach does not respond with its secretion. The use of acid fruits with milk does not cause any trouble and apparently does not conflict with its digestion."

daisy366's picture
daisy366
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mar 2009

This all seems very complicated and technical. Can you give some sample menus?

bea-mil's picture
bea-mil
Posts: 106
Joined: Jun 2010

It is hard to explain this diet in a short post the best for you is to search the net. I'm still learning too.
Below are some examples:

Eat Fruits alone on an empty stomach. The exceptions are sour fruits like lemons and limes, unsweetened juices from cranberries and black currants, and pomegranates or low in sugar fruits like grapefruit and kiwis, as well as pineapple, blueberries, and strawberry. These sour fruits combine best with kefir and yogurt made from milk and sprouted seeds and nuts. Nuts, seeds and dairy foods including cheese
Eat Proteins (meet, fish, legumes, nuts, seeds, dairy) with Non-Starchy Vegetables avoid combining proteins and starches (including grains, like rice, and starchy vegetables, like potatoes) in the same meal. Non-Starchy Vegetables Include: Leafy greens, broccoli, asparagus, cauliflower, carrots, bok choy, cabbage, celery, lettuces, green beans, garlic, fennel, onions, chives, turnips, sprouts, red radish, yellow squash, zucchini, cucumber, beets. If you are not vegetarian you can pair poached fish with stir-fried vegetables, roasted chicken with a leafy green salad and/or a non-starchy vegetable soup or try a salad that has veggies that are steamed and chilled (broccoli, cauliflower, green beans plus also a variety of raw vegetables (shredded carrots, cucumber, yellow squash) with lightly grilled salmon and a lemon-garlic dressing. If you are vegetarian like me simply replace meet with tofu.

Eat Grains (amaranth, quinoa, buckwheat and millet). and Starchy Vegetables (Acorn and butternut squash, lima beans, peas, corn, water chestnuts, artichokes and red skinned potatoes) with Non-Starchy. For example make hearty millet casserole with a green leafy salad and yellow squash sautéed in butter. Or try acorn squash stuffed with curried quinoa with onions. Warming grain soups are also good, especially in winter.

Fats and Oils - Choose organic, unrefined and extra virgin oils like flax seed, pumpkin seed, olive or coconut oils and ccombine them with: Vegetables, grains and protein. Avoid large amounts of fat with protein (like the mayonnaise in tuna salad) because it slows digestion. Instead use a small amount of oil to cook and oil free dressings.

Protein Fats: Avocado, olives, seeds and nuts (except peanuts and chestnuts, which are starches) ccombine with: Non-starchy and and sour fruits.

Dairy: Cheese and milk, are also protein fats. Fermented dairy products, like kefir, combine with sour fruits, seeds and nuts and non-starchy vegetables. Make a kefir dressing with lemon juice and herbs and toss it onto your favorite lettuce with some soaked and sprouted sunflower seeds for a tasty salad.

Dried Peas, Beans, and Soybeans: These foods are mainly a starch combined with a small amount of protein and are difficult to digest. Combine them with: Non-starchy vegetables.

Sugar: Sugar encourages the growth of yeast, suppresses your body's natural immunity and does not combine with anything! I don't eat sugar. Instead of sugar I use xylitol or stevia in my baking goods.

I hope that will help a little.

Bea-Mil

carolenk's picture
carolenk
Posts: 909
Joined: Feb 2011

Bea

How to you manage social gatherings that involve food? Do you bring your own food? Do you ever get invited to someone's home for dinner?

bea-mil's picture
bea-mil
Posts: 106
Joined: Jun 2010

What kind of question is that? Are you going to stop inviting your let’s say diabetic friends because they can’t share a cake with you anymore?!. I have real friends in my life and beside that I’m not that crazy about my diet, as you think. I eat what my friends cook (they know that I’m vegetarian) and they eat what I cook and they love it. I also eat out (except fast food). I just avoid “unhealthy” staff. I enjoy life as much as the cancer patient can.

jazzy1's picture
jazzy1
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mar 2010

I appreciate your posting Bea-Mil as do gain much insight from it. I do the best I can with what I plop into my mouth, so will follow many of your suggestions.

As you mentioned, you do enjoy life and don't always eat 100% off your listing.

I follow my grandmothers motto (who lived to be 95 years) ---

~~~~~EVERYTHING IN MODERATION....AND ENJOY LIFE TO IT'S FULLEST~~~~~

Hugs,
Jan

Paczki
Posts: 2
Joined: Feb 2012

I'm interested in your findings, but it's all too technical for me. I wish there were a simple way of saying it all, but I guess that would be more time consuming. O well. I'll keep trying.

RoseyR
Posts: 464
Joined: Feb 2011

Bea-Mil,

I'm somewhat familiar with theories of food-combining although I admit I don't practice them all that rigorously. Some come naturally (I wouldn't WANT to eat meat with milk; nor would I want to eat fruit with starches.)

Looking closely at your review of the principles, I now realize that pizza (which I have had twice in a year since diagnosis--and it was whole-grain pizza) violates all the rules of food-combining. Tomatos on a starchy crust? A no-no. Protein with starch?
Another no-no.

Do any of us succumb to this horror food occasionally? Of all the foods I know I shouldn't eat, pizza tempts me more than most others, alas.

Rosey

jazzy1's picture
jazzy1
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mar 2010

What I've learned from my therapist (who's a cancer survivor as well)...we need to enjoy life, but within our own comfort zone. My comfort zone leans more to side of eating very well, but on occasion I do slip off and enjoy a few slices of pizza. Figure if I purchase one that has lots of tomatoe sauce and vegies, and less on side of meats and cheese I'm a bit better. Why not enjoy it!! The next day I just pick back up on my "good nutritional" way of eating. The worst thing we can do is eat this way always...surely not good for any of us.

I've as well made my own using a whole wheat type crust from Whole Foods with loads of fresh vegies, tomato sauce (home-made), garlic & lots of spices...quite good!! This way I'm avoiding lots of the preservatives in the store-bought pizzas. Now if I could find some way of making a base for the pizza, I'd be even better. I did try a recipe called Polenta which uses organic cornmeal, but it was runny. Anyone have ideas?

Everything in moderation!!!

Jan

bea-mil's picture
bea-mil
Posts: 106
Joined: Jun 2010

Majority of western meals are made against the food combining diet.

This diet looks complicated at the beginning and like someone said “technical” but these rules gave me an answer why people who are eating healthy foods are getting sick too.

Since my surgery I have change my diet completely and my taste have changed as well. I like different things now. I had pizza maybe twice last 2 years. I don’t miss it. I came up with my own recipes that mimic some dishes. For example my vegetable lasagne is made on layers of sliced eggplant instead of lasagne noodles. Everything is doable.

Bea-Mil

Rewriter's picture
Rewriter
Posts: 494
Joined: Dec 2009

Would you be interested in starting/continuing a thread that contains recipes? I cook very often and to a great extent follow the food-combining principles that you shared. However, I find that I cook the same things over and over again. I would love to know how you make the vegetable lasagna--specifically, what cheese do you use--and what other kinds of meals you are eating. I will share my recipes, too.

Jill

stantheman1
Posts: 2
Joined: Apr 2012

Livestrong had a great article here http://www.livestrong.com/article/329995-probiotics-for-cancer/ about how Probiotics can help boost immunity by preventing cancer and helping those who are recovering from it.

debrajo's picture
debrajo
Posts: 787
Joined: Sep 2011

Did you get any responce to your recipe thread? I am getting terribly tired of my own ideas! Best Debrajo

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