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"Four Cups a Joe" per day, drink up!

ratface's picture
ratface
Posts: 1232
Joined: Aug 2009

A little food for thought, pun intended. In this months SPOHNC newsletter, Vol. 20 No. 5, pg.5 "Oral, head. And Neck Cancer News" Coffee may protect against head and neck cancer.

"Results of a recent study add to the brewing evidence that drinking coffee protects against cancer, this time against head and neck cancer. Full study results are published in 'Cancer epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention' a journal of the american association for cancer research.

"using information pooled from nine studies collected by the " International head and neck cancer Epidemiology consortium, participants who drank four or more cups of coffee per day compared to non drinkers, had a 39% decreased risk of oral cavity and pharynx cancers combined...Mia hashibe, PHD, assistant professor, preventive medicine, university of Utah,
"what makes our results so unique is that we had a very large sample size and combined data across many studies giving us more power to detect associations between cancer and coffee"

"Harvard has presented data showing decreased risk for aggreasive prostrate cancer and coffee consumption, 60 percent lower risk."

January issue of "Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention, showed a decrease in brain tumors with those who drank five or more cups of coffee or tea"

They close by saying that "These findings provide further impetus to pursue research to understand the role of coffee..."

Obviously it's too late for us but something to consider perhaps to stave off other cancers?

sweetblood22's picture
sweetblood22
Posts: 3230
Joined: Jan 2010

I had heard of this study before. I don't drink much coffee at all anymore. I used to have some everyday when I worked. Never cups and cups of it a day tho. I am too nervous and too hyper as it is. Lol. Now I drink decaf. I was always a bigger tea drinker. I drink 2-4 cups of tea a day now. At night or late after noon I stick to decaf tea.

Good news for some hard core coffee drinkers I know but won't name as CSN friends. Lol. :)

donna340
Posts: 72
Joined: Nov 2010

Thats great news. I love coffee. I think i drink about a pot a day getting ready for work.

Greg53's picture
Greg53
Posts: 830
Joined: Apr 2010

Rat,

Good post and yes I saw same report also. I really want to believe it, cause if it's true and with my addiction to coffee I ought to be cured in a couple weeks - lol. Was trying to keep my intake to having a cup every other day, but I'm back up to a couple cups a day. Oh well if that's my worst habit, maybe it will help my cause versus hurting.

Positive thoughts!

Greg

Hondo's picture
Hondo
Posts: 5667
Joined: Apr 2009

A cup of Coffee a day will keep the Rad & Chemo doctor away, interesting I hope it is true for De-cafe as well.

Skiffin16's picture
Skiffin16
Posts: 8058
Joined: Sep 2009

Hmmm, didn't seem to help me, LOL...I drink a several cups a day usually....

JG

ratface's picture
ratface
Posts: 1232
Joined: Aug 2009

Sorry decaf dosen't count and tea seems to have positive effects at least in the brain cancer study. Also for reasons I don't understand "laryngeal" cancer is not affected. And yes I drank plenty of coffee prior to diagnosis.

Hondo's picture
Hondo
Posts: 5667
Joined: Apr 2009

Interesting maybe it is the caffeine and not the coffee lol
Anyway I like my Green tea and need to protect what little is left to my brain, thanks for post Ratface

Take care
Hondo

sweetblood22's picture
sweetblood22
Posts: 3230
Joined: Jan 2010

You were just one of the people I had in mind. Lol. I was thinking the same thing. :)

rozaroo
Posts: 667
Joined: Apr 2010

I sure do miss the high test! Now I am down to one cup per day & it is decaf! Trying to cure
my ulcer & my Dr. said big no if you suffer from anxiety & panic attack's. I used to drink a pot a day.

Skiffin16's picture
Skiffin16
Posts: 8058
Joined: Sep 2009

LOL, you know my wife likes her coffee also....

JG

mixleader
Posts: 267
Joined: Oct 2010

Well, I don't care much for coffee, but I sure like the coffee flavored stout beers. Does that count? If so, I could be a very happy guy taking my medication. Can I get a prescription?

Roger

micktissue's picture
micktissue
Posts: 432
Joined: Dec 2009

Hi everyone. I've been super busy so have stayed away for a bit longer than I intended. I opened a new office and they wrote about it at http://petaluma.patch.com/articles/new-sliding-scale-clinic-fills-void-left-by-budget-cuts - we're getting busier so the marketing effort is paying off. Also this day marks one year since treatment started (chemo and rads) and I'm still kicking!

I wanted to chime in on the coffee is good for you thread. Coffee is chocked full of anti-oxidants however it does make the blood pH more acidic which some claim is a causal link to some cancers. The idea is that a more acidic pH creates a more compliant 'field' in which cancers can grow. The book Anticancer covers this ground pretty well.

I love my coffee but am curious about the pH aspect. I'm trying to discover the best way to measure blood pH so if anyone has a suggestion please post it here.

Best,

Mick

Joel4's picture
Joel4
Posts: 209
Joined: May 2010

In my case it leads to acid reflux which does not play well with cancer. I still sneak a cup or two of half and half a day.

DrMary's picture
DrMary
Posts: 527
Joined: Nov 2010

stepping on toes, I'll point out that our bodies rigidly control pH of our blood with a very efficient system involving lungs and kidneys. Food really doesn't change your pH, unless you are a diabetic and having severe insulin issues.

Strictly speaking, even the pH of blood in diabetics who experiencing ketoacidosis is not "acidic" as the lowest you get before you fall into a coma is about 7, which is neutral. Normal blood pH is about 7.4 or so - you start seeing effects if it drops below 7.3 (again, this requires low insulin or other severe issues, such as a heart attack or kidney failure).

The quickest way to lower your blood pH is to hold your breath (don't worry, it won't change that much) and the quickest way to raise it is to hyperventilate. Both will trigger feedback mechanisms that will restore your pH to normal quickly. Your kidneys do a longer-term regulation by controlling the amounts of bicarbonate (alkaline) and protons (acid) in the blood they are filtering.

So, in more-or-less healthy person, can eating "acidic" food make your blood pH go down? Remember that the acid produced by your stomach is way stronger than any acid you might consume, so it seems unlikely.

As Joel pointed out, however, stomach irritants (of which coffee is one, but not necessarily because of its pH - it is less acidic than lemonade) can cause acid reflux - chronic acid reflux is linked to esophageal cancer.

Measuring blood pH requires a blood sample that is not exposed to air (so it can't be a finger stick test) - not something you can check at home (using saliva or urine is not at all indicative of blood pH).

micktissue's picture
micktissue
Posts: 432
Joined: Dec 2009

Hi Dr Mary - don't worry about my toes ;-) I am grateful to be corrected.

Best,

Mick

sweetblood22's picture
sweetblood22
Posts: 3230
Joined: Jan 2010

I often have people comment about my diet and tell me that I have to keep it less acidic and more alkaline and that I should cut out certain foods like yogurt and fruits.... This never seemed like it would work to me. Sometimes I feel like there is just so much misinformation out there that a person sometimes doesn't know what to think or believe any more. In this Internet age both true and false info flies around the globe at the speed of light. I try to do the best I can in disseminating information but sometimes that is not easy for an untrained or someone like me that doesn't have a college education under her belt.

I guess I still feel comfortable with my approach to food and trying to eat healthier and that is all that matters since it is my body. :) I usually just say thanks for the tips to the people that try to sway me to their way of eating. I just had someone try and get me to buy a book or programme the other day and they were telling me that apple seeds can cure cancer. The whole time I am sitting there thinking to myself, "Dont apple seeds have arsenic in them or something??" Sometimes I am just afraid some of this crazy stuff people throw out there as a cure can hurt people.

Mick, great to see you post! I am very glad to know you are busy and doing well. :)

DrMary's picture
DrMary
Posts: 527
Joined: Nov 2010

that some medical truths seemed crazy at first - the most notable to me is the idea that ulcers could be caused by bacteria. In retrospect, anyone who has seen how bacteria can eat holes in flesh and teeth AND who has knowledge of extremophiles (organisms that can live in extreme conditions, such as dead seas and volcanic vents) would not think that to be strange. But the researcher was scoffed at by some (mostly hide-bound GI doctors who "knew" that ulcers were caused by stress) until his research was published and accepted by peers.

I'm not sure about apple seeds - apricot and cherry pits have a cyanide compound in them (arsenic is a heavy metal - still poisonous but not likely to be found in healthy plants) - likely a defense mechanism. It's not really a problem unless you eat lots or concentrated extracts (I think some of the old cherry liquors had measureable amounts of cyanide). I remember a kid (it made the news because courts got involved) whose parents took him to Mexico for laetril treatments for leukemia, as they were put off by conventional medicine's honesty (a good chance he would survive 5 years but no promises). He died within months; within a year, the treatment had advanced to the point where he would have likely stayed in remission for decades.

Sorry, just earning my reputation as a fun-sucker.

sweetblood22's picture
sweetblood22
Posts: 3230
Joined: Jan 2010

I think I meant cyanide anyway. For some reason I always get the two confused.

This afternoon I had some one telling me that they were cured of cancer (ovarian? I think she said) because she went to some clinic in Mexico, but now she cannot take antibiotics because that will kill off the treatment she was given for her cancer and it will come back. Her story was an hour long tho. I tried to be polite and listen. It was hard to keep my mouth shut thru the whole thing.

rozaroo
Posts: 667
Joined: Apr 2010

I was given a list of food to cut back on plus was advised to eat smaller meals more frequently. It has been difficult because of being limited as to what can go down as it is. I seem to be doing better & laying off of the caffiene has helped. Let me tell you that list of food was very long. I followed the Dr's suggestion's & it seem's to be working so far.

staceya's picture
staceya
Posts: 701
Joined: Jan 2010

Now I can drink EVEN MORE COFFEE!

How about CHEESECAKE or KNISHES?

any good studies on them??

Caffeinated hugs to you all
Stacey

sweetblood22's picture
sweetblood22
Posts: 3230
Joined: Jan 2010

....and another friend I was thinking of chimes in. Lol.

Knishes??!! Man it's been like ten years since I had one of those.

staceya's picture
staceya
Posts: 701
Joined: Jan 2010

Knishes are a bit hard to come by, here in Montana..
But..If someone could make them (not me, I tried and they were awful) they would be a HIT!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

MarineE5
Posts: 747
Joined: Dec 2005

Sweet,

Many of us don't have College under our belts. But we have a Degree in Life and another in Common Sense. We can sort out the IFFY stuff. We also know our bodies and how we react to certain medicines, vitimins, etc.

We do the best that we can with the information that is presented to us. What works for one, may not work for another.

My Best to You and Everyone Here

sweetblood22's picture
sweetblood22
Posts: 3230
Joined: Jan 2010

Stacey, I would think they would be a little scarce in Montana. They had great ones in Goldberg's Deli and actually I used to stop in there before work when I went past. That was many years ago. We stopped there about ten yrs ago when we were in staten island for a funeral. I just watched Chef Sasha make some on The Private Chefs of Beverly Hills. It really didn't look too hard.

Marine, I don't mean any disrespect to any one. I just know that sometimes when I am reading these abstracts and medical journal articles they make my head hurt. Not as bad as lawyers legalese, but close. :)

kingcole42005's picture
kingcole42005
Posts: 177
Joined: Oct 2010

I loooovvvvvveeee coffee! I actually owned a coffee shop years ago, got to go to coffee shows and even worked at starbucks, loves it! I like it espresso'd, french pressed, dripped, latte'd, macchiato'd and Americano'd! Anyway I can get it as long as it strong enought to stand a spoon up in! I give it up every once in a while for a couple of weeks because I get burned out on it. Hit up the tea. Love Chai! Yummy! Nothing beats a warm cuppa joe on a cold winter's day.

sweetblood22's picture
sweetblood22
Posts: 3230
Joined: Jan 2010

That would be what I am addicted to. :) Love all those spices. I often add extra cardamom to my cup. So good.

Kingcole, owning a coffee shop! That's a hard core coffee lover right there.

Scambuster's picture
Scambuster
Posts: 975
Joined: Nov 2009

I have to disagree strongly with DrMary about food and body/blood acidity. It a well established fact that diet plays a major part in body acidity (that would be most body fluids incl. blood). If your body is in an acidic state, you are at an increased risk of a multitude of illnesses and diseases, including cancer.

The lungs and kidneys do work to neutralize the pH of the blood, but one must assume that the lungs and kidneys are working at 100% efficiency. and that the quantity and supply of the other minerals and substances (bicarbonate etc) which are used to facilitate the pH level, do have a large impact on the efficacy of this process.

If you overload your body with 'Acid Producing' foods, your kidney's are under stress and there is excessive depletion of the stuff required to do the neutralizing, which is needed elsewhere in the body to perform a myriad of other important tasks. As a result, other things start to go wrong.

It's a bit like putting dirt in your engine. The oil will be working to bind up the dirt to keep it away from the moving parts, but eventually if you continue to put dirt in, the good juicy oil molecules will all be tied up looking after the dirt and there will be insufficient oil molecules left to lube the cylinders, and your engine will cease. Our body is not that different.

It is well understood that some foods are inherently acidic, like citrus fruits, but these actually have an alkalizing effect in the body once digested. The list of alkalizing foods is available in one click and are covered in most good 'Cancer books', that treat nutrition as a as an important factor. It is important to note the difference between 'acidic' and 'acid producing' foods.

As for the acid producing foods, no surprises but the main offenders are : Red meats, sugar, dairy, sodas and processed foods (white breads, white pastas etc). I was told for years to 'drink milk' to settle the acid stomach. No bloody wonder the condition never went away and I was forced to use a PPH medications for years. Ignorant Doctors.

I found out the hard way, and after suffering acid reflux for 35 years, joint and muscle pain (inflammation), gout, headaches and then cancer, I made very serious attempts to change my bodies pH with diet and things to boost kidney, liver & digestive function. The result, no more of any of the above.

So where was I ?? Oh yeah Coffee. Well the bad news is coffee is an acid producing food (bummer). This affect is diminished if you use organic, fresh and freshly ground coffee (grow you own). The good news is about the antioxidants - so coffee is a case that puts a card on each deck.

Off to make a fresh brew of 'Green Tea'.

Scam

DrMary's picture
DrMary
Posts: 527
Joined: Nov 2010

just how pissy Dr. Mary gets when you disagree with her (brave man!)

Anyway, I think we do not disagree totally - the bladder infection researchers(my cousin's one) have pretty clearly established a link between what you eat and the pH of your urine, and I think it is not far-fetched that it would also affect the pH of your saliva. And I think we are agreeing that it is not necessarily acidic foods that cause acid reflux. However, blood pH really is a different story, and I find it hard to believe that anyone has measured actual pH changes in blood in a person who is not seriously ill.

The above is based on my knowledge of biochemistry, which I studied many years ago (had to do a refresher a few years back) and would never claim to have done any real research in (I did do some biodeterioration work a ways back, but that's as close as we get - my area is polymer chemistry). I would like to see the research, and you seem to have looked into this pretty well. Could you PM me some links? (Yes, I'm lazy and also a bit too overloaded to go looking these days. . .) So far, all I've found is claims, lists and such, but no citations to actual research (as in, published in medical/scientific journals, with data and such).

I do enjoy reading your posts and am always looking to learn something new. . .

Scambuster's picture
Scambuster
Posts: 975
Joined: Nov 2009

Hi DrMary and folks,

Well I was hiding behind a large boulder expecting a full frontal attack but am pleased with your response.

So,onto the subject. I think the difference we view is that of Blood pH Vs the overall body pH. pH as measured in the saliva and urine, give an indication of body pH and is easy to do (just buy a booklet of litmus test strips from your drugstore ... and pee on it, match the color to the pH chart in the booklet).

Our blood requires very tight control of pH as you say, because of it's vital function, it gets to have superior pH equalizing mechanisms than the other body parts. It's a bit like the body giving priority of blood supply to the vital organs such as brain first, and less priority to the extremities - in time where rationing is required.

The effect of acid producing foods is well documented and there are many books on this subject and the usual few profiteers selling 'systems'. The earlier studies were lead by a Dr. Warburg who found through experiments that cancer cells thrived in acidic environments , and died in alkaline environments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Heinrich_Warburg

http://www.chimachine4u.com/AA.html (LIST OF A & A Forming Foods)

As for the Acid Vs Alkaline diet recommendation, the general rule is if we are healthy people, we should consume 60% Alkaline producing foods and 40% other foods, including some acid producing foods and neutral foods. If we are sick (or have had cancer) this should be more like 80/20. We are best to be slightly Alkaline.

My own experince, and the results of freinds and family who have tried the diet change, is my testament to the effectiveness of this approach. I was quite acidic (thru repeated urine testing) suffered for 30+ years from Acid Reflux, Gout, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, headaches and then cancer. My body is now slightly alkaline and 'all' of these symptoms and problems are gone.

My father nearly died just before christmas with pneumonia, was on permanent doses of Prednisone, Insulin (D2) and BP medications. I convinced him to eat low GI foods and alkaline foods (and eliminate a lot of crap he was eating) and within just 2 weeks, he stopped the Prednisone, insulin and BP meds. His Doctors are confused.

The conflict between conventional medicine /science, and the alternatives is the usual dilemma. Lack of funding for research (into something that actually works), the incredibly complex reactions involved in our metabolism where reactions are long, occur in great numbers and in a multitude of combinations, so to isolate and 'scientifically prove' is a challenge. The usual spray from the medical community of "Show me the scientific evidence." is perhaps better answered with "Show my evidence why not".

As for the overall 'Acid Vs Alkaline' debate - I have seen it, experienced and, and it makes sense. I have benefited greatly from the results. I therefore recommend people give this a try. Test your pH, try the diet changes, see the differences, then make a choice. Then you can also share your experience and hopefully help others in this fight.

Regds and goodwill
Scam

PS I just started drinking Reishi Coffee. www.lgreenhealth.com

DrMary's picture
DrMary
Posts: 527
Joined: Nov 2010

are reserved for folks who don't play nice.

We seem to be mostly of accord, so I'm not going to keep going back and forth (fun as it is) - I was objecting to the pH-of-blood issue, as I've seen websites that conflate blood pH with saliva/urine/other secretions pH, and they contain other inaccuracies but promise a cure to everything if you follow their diet (money is usually involved somewhere).

We all are beneficiaries of the Warburg effect, and I am pleased that new cancer drugs are based on it. However, I am always wary of making too much soup from one oyster - both cancer cells and healthy cells depend on glucose for energy. I think it's really neat that we can exploit the fact that healthy cells go through the Kreb cycle while cancer cells do the anaerobic route - you can interrupt one without interfering with the other, is the hope - but I don't see that simply avoiding sugar will necessarily prevent cancer. As you pointed out, it is probably more complicated than that.

You can't argue with success, however, and I am happy that your current diet works for you. I'd like to slap your doctor upside the head (the one who told you to drink more milk for your reflux - if he also knew about your gout issue, he should never have suggested that) as it's folks like that who push people away from trusting "conventional" medicine.

I was really pleased that Doug's doctors were always willing to hear my thoughts and work with me during his treatment. I'd like to think this reflected their belief in the importance of the caregiver, but maybe they were just afraid of me. . .

Scambuster's picture
Scambuster
Posts: 975
Joined: Nov 2009

Hi DrMary,

Good points and I agree with your Oyster Soup analogy, and in doing so I have simply added more oysters and maybe some clams and crab to my soup. While much of the cancer research leaned on these days is by no means perfect, there appears several paths that cancer follows and needs certain environment in place to thrive. Many ducks need to be lined up. Certain proteins to activate the switch gear on cancer cells, food supply, under-active enemy (immune system) etc. If we remove those paths and interrupt it's passage in as many ways possible, then our numbers should improve. We start to dissamble the ducks.

If we make our bodies Alkaline, reduce the amount of easy sugar available, reduce or remove inflammatory conditions in the body, remove stress and toxins, get our immune system working and only give the body the good stuff, then this must go a long way to disrupting cancers trek. The overall effect is likely to be as effective as Chemo or Rads in many cases and there are plenty of people running around now to prove this. This statistics are hard to find because there is little infrastructure or incentive ($$) to gather such data.

As for Doctors giving bad advice, well I gather they make errors about 40% of the time, but it's legal. They also get to bury their mistakes. Sadly when one Naturopath treats a terminally ill person who has been abandoned and sent home to die by the conventional crew, and that person dies while trying some desperate treatment, the naturopath is labeled a killer. Charlatans aside, this is a common occurrence.

I will keep pitching and hoping the Twains shall meet and we can get a more comprehensive treatment of Cancer and many other diseases on thye map. Call me a dreamer but there is always hope.

Scam

Hal61's picture
Hal61
Posts: 656
Joined: Dec 2009

For the info. My coffee tastes even better now.

best, Hal

Greend's picture
Greend
Posts: 679
Joined: Feb 2010

Wonder if it works better with a shot of Baileys or Jack.

HMMMMMMMMM might have to do some research.

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