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Maybe time for just a religious forum?!

Sonia32's picture
Sonia32
Posts: 1068
Joined: Mar 2009

Oh watch me get attacked, but I think if anyone moderators are reading this it's time to have a religious forum as well as this one. The forum would be open to all those who are religious from different faith etc, this section does not seem to be working for those who believe in religion.

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

I agree, graci. What I've enjoyed most about this particular board is the give and take, the ability to not only speak one's mind but to open one's mind to other views. The people who argue that there is no room for debate here, or that we should have another site for the 'religious', miss the point entirely, in my humble opinion.

The idea was to remove religion, in particular, from the cancer-related boards, as far as I can tell. From what I have heard, that particular mission has failed, proseltyzers being the rather insistent sorts that they are. But still, it has been a great success as far as I am concerned, mainly for the one distinction you make: Everyone had/has respect for each other.

Kudos to all (well, nearly all).

Take care,

Joe

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4673
Joined: May 2005

The forum started out in a great way. It was a place for open discussion and prayer. I think part of the point of it's creation was to take the proseltyzers & preachers off of the specific cancer forums. Unfortunately, it seems that after a few months they found this forum and the same problems arose and will continue to until that kind of instigating behavior stops. That seems to be when people started to lose respect for one another.

I too think that the forum has been a success and can continue to be one.
-phil

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Thanks for the shout out!

sal314
Posts: 633
Joined: Jul 2010

Just for the record, I am a Christian. BUT...I also like to think I am respectful of other peoples beliefs and certainly enjoy listening to others perspectives. That's what makes the world go round, ya know. Though I may disagree with others, I certainly would never attack them or berate them. That's not my way or God's way! I don't understand why people can't be respectful and tolerant of one another! It really, really bothers me. It's sad that a few "bad apples" always seem to find a way to spoil something positive for so many others. Ugh.....

Blessings to ALL,
Sally

capejm2's picture
capejm2
Posts: 2
Joined: Mar 2011

I was in the cancer chat lobby about 3 min. when some one said they prayed
for
someone. I said we all should pray. The lobby chief a soccer guy said
your cant say that its religious. And then banned me because I said we all
need faith.I have pancreatic cancer and I am doing well.I came to this site
to hear good things to bring and to get others opinions not to have a ass
throw me out for stating an opinion thats very common for a cancer
survivor. I cannot belive the cancer society would endorse this type of
behavior by this guy who thinks he owns the site. It sickens me to think a
person who cares is treated in this manor. I came to the site for a chance
to chat with other about real problems and ways to deal with them.

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

And they are duplicates.

Just a side note, probably not a good idea to call a moderator or another user an "ass"

So here is my response from the other thread:

You expressed an opinion that denigrated others, and at the same time told others what they "should" be doing, though I know that may be difficult for you to comprehend.

From the site Terms & Conditions:

No User shall use the Service to proselytize. The religious beliefs of all faiths are to be respected. The spiritual beliefs of all Members are to be respected regardless of whether they are in accordance with the beliefs of any religious group or teachings of other Members. No User shall disrespect or judge the beliefs or decisions of other Members on religious, spiritual, or other issues including but not limited to lifestyle, relationships, and medical care.

The interpretation of this is at the discretion of the boards moderators, not you and not me, but here is my understanding:

You may express that prayer has helped you
You may say that you will pray for another user
You may not post a prayer or a religious passage
You may not tell others that they should believe what you believe

Before you complain about freedom of speech, this is a private board, provided to us at no cost.  The board has a right to set rules to ensure a civil discourse.  You enjoy the use of the board at the discretion of its owners.  

There is also no particular discrimination of Christians.  If I came on and said we should all bow before Allah I too would be banned.

Now, share your story, seek solace in the story of others and provide wisdom where you can, but stay within the rules of the board.

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

Interesting take on the event, there, cape (again).

What happened specifically was that you came in and without introduction began preaching, to the extent that OTHER users (not me) advised you to cool it, that you were offending them. And you left out the point where you said to me, "Oh, so you're the boss. I don't care", and continued on as you had been.

So, you were asked kindly by others to stop, were warned by me, indicated you didn't care, and were then kicked out for the session.

You returned immediately and began again as if you had learned nothing. This is when you were banned.

As buckwirth indicates, there are rules that you agree to when you sign on. In the opinion of others as well as myself, you were violating at least one of them to a great degree, and when you showed no regard for the feelings of others you were, I think, rightfully removed.

(As Buckwirth rightly points out, too, it is probably not a good idea to call a moderator or administrator an 'ass', nor, in fact, to advise that you 'don't care' and are going to do what you want anyway.)

CSN will examine the transcript, and if they find that I erred, I will be the first to apologize. If, on the other hand, they find that I acted in accordance with their standards, well, capejm2 is banned permanently from the ChatRoom.

Take care,

Joe

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Joe,

Since I am no fan of chat, I had no idea he was referring to you. It has been quiet the last 24 hours, perhaps it will stay that way.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4673
Joined: May 2005

Not a fan of chat, it's like a free-for-all. Probably since I can't type that fast.
;-)
I had posted a reply to all of this but it seems to have been pulled.
Nothing was said but the truth but that doesn't always fly.

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

I saw your reply last night. Seemed innocent enough to me, maybe you should send a note to Greta and see if it was a board glitch...

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
Posts: 2731
Joined: Jul 2006

I don't like chat because it intimidates me and I can't type fast enough to keep up with the conversation. I'd like it better if I could see who was in there before I popped in.

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

others have suggested that, marcia...i will pass it forward.

Take care, my friend,

Joe

stayingcalm's picture
stayingcalm
Posts: 656
Joined: Feb 2007

I'm not a fan of chat either - can't keep up and after a while it all seems kind of pointless and gossipy. The few times I've been in the chat room I feel like I don't belong and I much prefer the forums =/

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

It was not my intent to bring Chat Room issues into this board. Someone else did and I felt obligated to speak on my own behalf, even if I usually blow off such stuff.

FYI to all, I am not an administrator here, not a moderator here, except in the chat rooms, and why that is, I'm not really sure :). I advised in my blog that it was like putting the fox in charge of the henhouse in an attempt to make him a vegetarian, but I did it when asked largely to keep some soup kitchen nazi from getting involved and killing the joy for those of us who DO enjoy the chat room.

It is not fun, and that is another reason I decided to do it: Given the choice, I didn't want someone in there who was having fun. It should not be easy to make the kinds of decisions that boot people out of the joint, for a moment or forever.

I understand that cancer arouses great emotions, and I understand that cancer can make rocks religious. So I hope that I am very careful with how I handle all of that.

In any event, again, I did not intend or expect to see the runoff from that BS in here. I apologize for my part in it.

Take care,

Joe

3Mana
Posts: 829
Joined: Aug 2010

Hey guy,
You're okay so I'm not sure what went on, but maybe it was just a misunderstanding, huh?
Sometimes people say things they don't mean cause they don't think. You've been on here a long time, and I enjoy your opinions. Maybe this person is just very sensitive so we should watch what we say & bite our tongue. Hang in there Joe!!! Carole

bluerose's picture
bluerose
Posts: 1089
Joined: Jul 2009

Like Mana I wasn't in the room when this burst of religious chat popped into the chatroom that day/night but I have a couple of general comments, having read this board, that hopefully will shed a little light on a couple of things pertaining to this site.

First of all I want to say that the chatroom, for the sake of any newbies reading this topic, can be a fabulous help to many many people on the cancer journey whether they be caregivers or newly diagnosed patients or friends or family of those afflicted with this terrible disease. Many times when people search out a forum like this they are in desperate need of input and sometimes immediate one on one live chat is a Godsend. I don't know how many times I have seen newbies type 'oh I feel so much better knowing that there is a place I can come where people understand my feelings'(meaning this site and the chatroom itself in particular in this instance. Others have typed 'I feel so much better now, knowing the facts and listening to others who have been down this road', or words to that general affect. This is invaluable stuff so my point is (you knew I would get to it sooner or later, lol) is that this chatroom can be very very helpful so I really shiver when I see it put down as it has been in this topic. Yup, everyone has their opinion and likes and dislikes but to a newbie reading this how likely would you be to visit the chatroom now after reading some of the comments?

Of course there are times when the chatroom speaks of other things besides cancer and the risk of newbies coming in and seeing us talk about baking pies or other things unrelated to cancer can be great, you can't talk about cancer 24/7. The rule, unspoken most times though but understood by most, is that whenever someone enters the room the attention should shift to them. They should be welcomed and then asked if they are knew to the site and on the conversation should go from there seeking out the reason they came to the site/room. When I have been in there that is how it goes. That doesn't mean that other conversations previously in session before the new person came in can't continue but at least one person should stick with the newbie. In a perfect world that is what should happen, as far as I am concerned on a site like this.

I am just saying that if you don't like chatrooms then fine but please don't try to discourage others who are new from giving it a try, more than once, nothing is perfect, even the discussion boards. Like in any communicative situation you will get the occassional oddball comments, people are people, it happens.

The other point I wanted to raise is the question of this fellow who came in talking about prayer. Again, I was not there so am just commenting IN GENERAL about people and their faiths. I understand the sites rules completely but having said that I really feel that we should tred lightly when it comes to shooting someone down when they are so passionate about their faith because we just don't know - maybe that is all they have in life. Maybe it's the only single thing that is keeping them going. I am not talking about the situation in the chatroom at all because as I said I wasn't there, but we just have to work on being more sensitive to EVERYONE'S private beliefs and how they express them. Not everyone is as literate as the next person, each communicates in different ways but this particular guy sounds desperate to me, desperate to find help and while the moderator no doubt handled it in the best possible way I would expect I am just asking - was enough done to really make the person understand that there are rules and while we understand that faith is important to some you can't force it down people's throats? This guy, and possibly others, who come to this site for the first time then experience a ban for expressing themselves will not come back and is that what we want? Do we want someone in crisis who came here for help to be shunned when we have no idea of his current situation or need? I'm just sayin. I am not taking his side, I wasn't there, but suffice is to say that in this situation, while we are talking about this subject maybe, I felt, it was a time to check ourselves on the whole sensitivity and validation question. Don't shoot me, just offering up a GENERAL opinion or two.

People take criticism, or what they feel is criticism, in very different ways - especially when they are hurting as this man obviously was. Again I am just making a point about being gentle and understanding, not trying to second guess the moderator or anyone else involved in that one instance.

I just felt after reading all of the comments here that maybe I should fling in a little reminder about tolerance and to not put down venues on this site that could be very helpful to more people than not.

Thanks for reading my post.

Blessings,

Bluerose

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

To be clear, when I say I am no a fan of chat I am speaking of a personal preference about all chat rooms, nothing at all to do with CSN, and I stated it only to point out why I would have no idea that soccer guy was Joe. It also seemed that the others were voicing similar, general preferences as to why they do not partake of this service

My bet is if you were to do a straw poll in the chat room you would find that most of the participants are familiar with the format and use it in other venues.

Out of curiosity, how would you have handled Cape? Joe says he tried to explain, and just got hostility in response. I believe that my response was fair, and gave information that would prevent him from eventually being banned. I also think there there are probably issues there that could not be resolved in a chat room or on a discussion board, but I would like to hear how you would handle these kinds of posters.

bluerose's picture
bluerose
Posts: 1089
Joined: Jul 2009

I don't know what you meant by 'put down' but I was putting no one down and I was not speaking to you only about disliking chatrooms. I think I made it clear several times that this topic brought up GENERAL thoughts about the pros and cons of the chatroom on this site. I also thought I made it clear I was not in the room and I was not commenting solely on this one issue with this person who offended the room and was booted.

I don't 'put down' people if you have read my posts before or at least I hope I don't because those who know me know I wouldnt do that.

As far as what I would do with that specific scenario in chat, like I said several times in the post I did I was not there so I could not comment on how I would have handled it and it was probably handled correctly, again, it was just bringing to mind for me a comment I had IN GENERAL about doing all we can to help all kinds of people who come in with all kinds of attitudes and issues.

Bluerose

3Mana
Posts: 829
Joined: Aug 2010

Hey Bluerose,
Is Buckwirth the guy who was upset??? I agree with you about the "chatrooms". I, myself, don't go on cause I felt like it was more for people who have cancer. Am I wrong? I had gone on it a few times but kind of felt out of place. But getting back to that guys comments, since I wasn't on there I don't know what went on. Funny how you can even get into disagreements on the computer hey? I started coming onto this site last August and now I check it at least 4 times a day. I feel like even though none of us have ever met, we've become friends and I love the comforting feeling I get from everyone. We all try to help the people who join this site and I'm sure sometime someone will get offended, but everyone has their own opinion. Take care Bluerose!!! Carole

bluerose's picture
bluerose
Posts: 1089
Joined: Jul 2009

Thanks for your response. No the chatrooms aren't just for those who have cancer it is for all who have cancer in their lives in anyway, as caregivers, family members, friends of patients etc. Join us sometime.

You shouldn't feel out of place in the room as the rule is supposed to be that everyone is greeted when they come into the room by those already in there. However sometimes conversations are in progress when a person comes in and they might be missed if there are alot in the room.

The idea is to just say hello yourself when you come in if no one says anything. They aren't ignoring you they might just be deep in conversation as I said. You have to just state your situation or question or just say hello and sit and watch for a bit then join in, it's up to you. It takes time to get used to chat but I think it can be very helpful.

I can understand the comforting feeling you get from the site because here people understand your cancer journey as they have been there so they can totally relate and validate how you feel many times. That's a comforting situation because often those around us just having 'been there' and while they care they can't possibly truly understand what we are or have gone through - walk a mile in my shoes kind of thing.

You asked about someone on this site being the fellow who was in the chatroom the other day and I don't know who is who on here and again I wasn't in the chatroom when that issue came up so no idea. I would doubt this is the same person.

Anywho Carole thanks for the post and try the chatroom again if you like, you will get used to it.

Blessings,

Bluerose

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

But I phrased it inartfully, so please accept my apology. My intent was to question how any of the comments was a put down of the chat room.

I enjoy your posts, very thoughtful and always calling for tolerance. Also, I was looking for honest criticism of my response to cape. Could I have phrased it better? Was I intolerant? I don't believe so, but I would like to know your thoughts.

Again, my apologies for the misunderstanding, re-reading it I can see how you interpreted it the way you did.

Yours,

Blake

bluerose's picture
bluerose
Posts: 1089
Joined: Jul 2009

Communciation through typing only whether in chatrooms or on discussion boards is often an imperfect art so we all sometimes misinterpret things we read different ways and express ourselves uncleaerly sometimes unintentionally. I do it all the time, chemobrain doesn't help either. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. lol.

Anywho we all do our best.

Take care.

Bluerose

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

So, you are saying that chemobrain may last for 23 years. Wow.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4673
Joined: May 2005

I know many people who something just like chemo brain and they've never done chemo!
;-)

bluerose's picture
bluerose
Posts: 1089
Joined: Jul 2009

So I have been told by a reputable memory expert/neurologist/surgeon, Joe. They are seeing more and more long term survivors with chemobrain and they are even using the term. I have explained this before. In early treatment depending on the drug and treatment types forgetfullness and some cognitive issues can often occur and some regain regular function not too long after. Others aren't so lucky. Also if damage is done, weakening of the brain tissue, is the way they put it, from certain drugs that cross the blood brain barrier as they know now that it does - more long term effects they call chemobrain can indeed last long term. I am one of those people but certainly not the only one.

Normal processes like aging show more signs of this issue in people who have had the treatments with those certain chemo drugs (radiation not sure) so they may well have more issues with chemobrain as they age then people who haven't been treated.

Bluerose

dasspears
Posts: 233
Joined: Feb 2009

And yet there are still oncologists who disagree that chemobrain is after effect. I know in my case, it definitly was and to this day, if I'm tired, I still have some issues. It's irritating that chemobrain is not more widely recognized or accepted.

It has come in handy for me at times ;).

bluerose's picture
bluerose
Posts: 1089
Joined: Jul 2009

My diagnosis was first in 1989 and then again in 1991 and you can't imagin how many validations have come to pass in the medical community for things I experienced for the first few years. They didn't recognize my heart damage as chemo induced and now totally do, for some chemo drug therapy that is. They thought the idea of Post Traumatic Stress
Disorder in cancer patients was a crazy idea and now there are serious studies being done
on that subject, many cancer survivors have known all of this personally well before, they experienced some of it. Some nerve damange is now recognized, cataracts, fatigue issues - I had to battle alot of those issues that were not validated years back.

I think part of the reason we see validation now, other than new and improved research, is that many more survivors are living longer and in greater numbers are reporting similar side effects or should I say symptoms that lead the medical community to realize that it's too suspicious that so many are having the same issues after certain treatments.

It's not the unusual that certain physicians still are sticking with older information and like alot of things that come out as 'findings' in the medical community some just don't buy it and some do. There is alot of data now saying yes this is what is happening and they have even pinned chemobrain down to a few types of chemo drugs. Who knows what future research will uncover so new treatments might not have to be so invasive.

Best to you.

Blessings,
Bluerose

dasspears
Posts: 233
Joined: Feb 2009

Your quote: "I think part of the reason we see validation now, other than new and improved research, is that many more survivors are living longer and in greater numbers are reporting similar side effects or should I say symptoms that lead the medical community to realize that it's too suspicious that so many are having the same issues after certain treatments."

I didn't think about this but it makes a lot of sense. Good example.

3Mana
Posts: 829
Joined: Aug 2010

Sorry Blake if we misunderstood you. Sometimes things can get confusing on here, so don't feel bad. This is a great web site and I don't know what I'd do without it. My husband died last March and I miss him so much. I have lots of friends but no one know how it is to go through this unless they've been through it themselves. My sister expected me to be back to normal after 2 weeks. Can you believe that? I said "what would you do if your lost your husband tomorrow?" She said "I'd just move on!" Sorry but it's not that easy when he was the love of your life.
Sorry for rambling but anyhow, keep coming on this site!!! Carole

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