Folfox #3 so far so good and Chinese Herbal Medicine and slight lymphopenia

pete43lost_at_sea
pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
edited March 2014 in Colorectal Cancer #1
got dosed up nice and fast, like filing up my car at the service station.
My a couple of friends keep me company in different shifts. dosed off in the second.
really busy day got an hour walk in with my diving friend Paul.
went to Xmas parent helpers morning tea and choir concert at my daughters school.
speed to the Chinese Herbal Medicine Oncologist TCMONC
Did some work renting out rooms in the city
Went to a cubs BBQ diner
Got home and took the dogs for a good one hour run and walk.
Now I am doing this post.

I have a huge amount of energy except when I feel asleep during infusion.
I am grateful my sife effects have been minimal sofar I think. The cold sensitivity
is a definite. I also have a really white tongue which worried TCMONC.

My traditional ONC who I love does not discuss blood results in detail.
I have to sneak a COPY AWAY as I need the ONC permission each time.
TCMONC explained as the bloods and meanings and was worried about

WBC Lymph being 0.4 and 0.5 should be in range 1.0-4.0
TCMONC explained this is related to immune function and was bad and maybe due to 5fu or diet or ineffective digestion. So I have a new herbal concoction to solve this problem. And will see TCMONC in two weeks. Also see ONC in 13 days so it will be interesting.

TCMONC said Lymph mad eby protien, suggested adding ginger to aide digestion.
Low lymph could also be bonemarrow depression. Considering ramping up health protien.
More eggs and some red meat.

doing some research on Lymph but thought I would also ask for comments
thanks,
Pete

Comments

  • Lori-S
    Lori-S Member Posts: 1,277 Member
    #2
    Hi Pete
    I'm assuming you're wondering about your lymphocytes and in general white blood cells. The best diet for this is to increase your proteins. Egg yolks, meats, fish, cheese, soy. Also, drinking green tea. but, check with your onc because I've heard someone say that the oncs don't always like green tea. It may be because of folic acid increase. Folic acid is not to be supplimented when on FOLFOX. I had to change my multivitamins and B complex because they contained folic acid. Folic acid will help increase white blood cells but, we already receive folonic acid with FOLFOX so more is not better.

    One thing to be careful with is fresh produce. Make sure to clean it really really well when your lmphocytes are low. If your numbers get low enough you should discontinue fresh fruits and vegetables until they come back up. Also, no fresh flowers in the house.

    As I mentioned before neupogen injections are usually given to bring the count back up. Sometimes Neulasta is given but, it is more costly. Good thing about it though is you only have to have one injection instead of multiple injections to get the numbers back up.

    I'm glad that you're doing well with your FOLFOX and working with alternatives too. Keep up the good work

    PS: stay out of public as much as possible because you are at risk to catch infections of all kinds.
  • Lori-S
    Lori-S Member Posts: 1,277 Member
    #3
    Lori-S said:

    Hi Pete
    I'm assuming you're wondering about your lymphocytes and in general white blood cells. The best diet for this is to increase your proteins. Egg yolks, meats, fish, cheese, soy. Also, drinking green tea. but, check with your onc because I've heard someone say that the oncs don't always like green tea. It may be because of folic acid increase. Folic acid is not to be supplimented when on FOLFOX. I had to change my multivitamins and B complex because they contained folic acid. Folic acid will help increase white blood cells but, we already receive folonic acid with FOLFOX so more is not better.

    One thing to be careful with is fresh produce. Make sure to clean it really really well when your lmphocytes are low. If your numbers get low enough you should discontinue fresh fruits and vegetables until they come back up. Also, no fresh flowers in the house.

    As I mentioned before neupogen injections are usually given to bring the count back up. Sometimes Neulasta is given but, it is more costly. Good thing about it though is you only have to have one injection instead of multiple injections to get the numbers back up.

    I'm glad that you're doing well with your FOLFOX and working with alternatives too. Keep up the good work

    PS: stay out of public as much as possible because you are at risk to catch infections of all kinds.

    Immune building smoothie
    You might want to try something like this:

    2 cups milk or soy or rice beverage
    1 cup plain nonfat yogurt
    1 serving of a multinutrient supplement
    one frozen banana, cut up
    1/2 cup frozen blueberries
    1/2 cup each of your favorite fruit, frozen (e.g., organic strawberries, papaya, mango)
    1 tbsp. flax oil or 2 tbsp. flaxseed meal (Because fiber steadies the absorption of carbohydrates and therefore contributes to a steadier blood sugar we suggest using rich sources of fiber, such as flaxseed meal (i.e., ground flax seeds, containing both the oil and fiber), although flax oil has a more palatable consistency than flaxseed meal. For additional fiber, if you don't mind an even grainier texture, add 1 tbsp. or more of oat bran.)
    3 ounces tofu
    10 mg. zinc
    100 mcg. selenium
    50-100 IU vitamin E
    1 serving soy isolate powder (optional)
    2 tbsp. peanut butter (optional)
  • AnneCan
    AnneCan Member Posts: 3,673 Member
    #4
    Pete
    It sounds like you are full of energy; good for you!
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    #5
    Lori-S said:

    Immune building smoothie
    You might want to try something like this:

    2 cups milk or soy or rice beverage
    1 cup plain nonfat yogurt
    1 serving of a multinutrient supplement
    one frozen banana, cut up
    1/2 cup frozen blueberries
    1/2 cup each of your favorite fruit, frozen (e.g., organic strawberries, papaya, mango)
    1 tbsp. flax oil or 2 tbsp. flaxseed meal (Because fiber steadies the absorption of carbohydrates and therefore contributes to a steadier blood sugar we suggest using rich sources of fiber, such as flaxseed meal (i.e., ground flax seeds, containing both the oil and fiber), although flax oil has a more palatable consistency than flaxseed meal. For additional fiber, if you don't mind an even grainier texture, add 1 tbsp. or more of oat bran.)
    3 ounces tofu
    10 mg. zinc
    100 mcg. selenium
    50-100 IU vitamin E
    1 serving soy isolate powder (optional)
    2 tbsp. peanut butter (optional)

    Lori great smoothy
    been having most of the above everyday but not as a smoothy.
    With the exclusion of soy isolate and peanut butter and tofu.

    My super healthy weightloss diet LOST 33kg in 3 months.
    My breaky has been
    low fat cottage cheese, 2-3 table spoons flakseed oil and a cup of blueberries.
    Almost everyday since june.
    super vegie juice beetroot, carrots, celery, ginger, garlic, broccoli, asparagus etc etc
    ( if the cancer does not get me then these juices will, they taste vile )
    but after I drink it I feel a real boost. maybe its just my imagination.
    the kids know what it tastes like, when they see drink the know I love them.
    morning tea is poached eggs and mushrooms and tomatoe
    lunch is a green vegetable soup either brocolli or asparagus
    afternoon tea is a mango or banana
    dinner is fish, mash and tomatoes and avocado.
    I substitute the fish for crab, oysters and chicken sometimes.

    It might sound bland but I actually love most of these foods.
    Tonight I had some pasta. which is a bit of a treat.

    I completely cutout read meat and most processed foods.

    I originally I cut out most dairy, breads, pasta. But my ONC and NUTRICIONIST insisted I stay at 100Kg and keep the 10Kg excess I am carrying as reserve for the chemo treatment.
    MAde sense to me, so I have added in pastas, rice and some bread. My weight is 102Kg and is pretty constant.

    As I watch my bloods edge down, I wonder how the next 5 months will go.
    I have this horrible white tongue like someone painted it. It cannot be good
    and my Chine Herbal Medicine Onc.

    Getting my folfox yesterday I had the register check my lungs as I had this dry cough off and on for the last few days. My lungs were clear.

    I'll stay away from public places where infection is a risk.
    thanks,
    Pete
  • abrub
    abrub Member Posts: 2,174 Member
    #6
    Lori-S said:

    Hi Pete
    I'm assuming you're wondering about your lymphocytes and in general white blood cells. The best diet for this is to increase your proteins. Egg yolks, meats, fish, cheese, soy. Also, drinking green tea. but, check with your onc because I've heard someone say that the oncs don't always like green tea. It may be because of folic acid increase. Folic acid is not to be supplimented when on FOLFOX. I had to change my multivitamins and B complex because they contained folic acid. Folic acid will help increase white blood cells but, we already receive folonic acid with FOLFOX so more is not better.

    One thing to be careful with is fresh produce. Make sure to clean it really really well when your lmphocytes are low. If your numbers get low enough you should discontinue fresh fruits and vegetables until they come back up. Also, no fresh flowers in the house.

    As I mentioned before neupogen injections are usually given to bring the count back up. Sometimes Neulasta is given but, it is more costly. Good thing about it though is you only have to have one injection instead of multiple injections to get the numbers back up.

    I'm glad that you're doing well with your FOLFOX and working with alternatives too. Keep up the good work

    PS: stay out of public as much as possible because you are at risk to catch infections of all kinds.

    Concerns re Green Tea
    I heard from an Integrative Medicine MD at Memorial Sloan Kettering that green tea is not good during chemo because it is a powerful anti-oxidant, and one of the things that chemo does is to oxidize your tumors. Thus, anti-oxidants during chemo will strengthen tumors against the chemo (while it does likewise to healthy cells.) Thus, green tea should be largely avoided.

    I avoided crowds as much as possible, and kept mini-bottles of hand sanitizer with me at all times, which I used after touching anything that someone else might have touched. Crazy as it sounds, I had my "healthiest" time - no colds or other, while being treated for cancer. Now, treatment is done, and I get colds and stuff again!

    Not everyone's counts drop - mine stayed good throughout.

    Wishing you a smooth time of it, Pete.

    Alice
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331 Member
    #7
    Lori-S said:

    Immune building smoothie
    You might want to try something like this:

    2 cups milk or soy or rice beverage
    1 cup plain nonfat yogurt
    1 serving of a multinutrient supplement
    one frozen banana, cut up
    1/2 cup frozen blueberries
    1/2 cup each of your favorite fruit, frozen (e.g., organic strawberries, papaya, mango)
    1 tbsp. flax oil or 2 tbsp. flaxseed meal (Because fiber steadies the absorption of carbohydrates and therefore contributes to a steadier blood sugar we suggest using rich sources of fiber, such as flaxseed meal (i.e., ground flax seeds, containing both the oil and fiber), although flax oil has a more palatable consistency than flaxseed meal. For additional fiber, if you don't mind an even grainier texture, add 1 tbsp. or more of oat bran.)
    3 ounces tofu
    10 mg. zinc
    100 mcg. selenium
    50-100 IU vitamin E
    1 serving soy isolate powder (optional)
    2 tbsp. peanut butter (optional)

    Lori is it a witch potion?
    Hahahahaha!
  • Lori-S
    Lori-S Member Posts: 1,277 Member
    #8
    pete43lost_at_sea said:

    Lori great smoothy
    been having most of the above everyday but not as a smoothy.
    With the exclusion of soy isolate and peanut butter and tofu.

    My super healthy weightloss diet LOST 33kg in 3 months.
    My breaky has been
    low fat cottage cheese, 2-3 table spoons flakseed oil and a cup of blueberries.
    Almost everyday since june.
    super vegie juice beetroot, carrots, celery, ginger, garlic, broccoli, asparagus etc etc
    ( if the cancer does not get me then these juices will, they taste vile )
    but after I drink it I feel a real boost. maybe its just my imagination.
    the kids know what it tastes like, when they see drink the know I love them.
    morning tea is poached eggs and mushrooms and tomatoe
    lunch is a green vegetable soup either brocolli or asparagus
    afternoon tea is a mango or banana
    dinner is fish, mash and tomatoes and avocado.
    I substitute the fish for crab, oysters and chicken sometimes.

    It might sound bland but I actually love most of these foods.
    Tonight I had some pasta. which is a bit of a treat.

    I completely cutout read meat and most processed foods.

    I originally I cut out most dairy, breads, pasta. But my ONC and NUTRICIONIST insisted I stay at 100Kg and keep the 10Kg excess I am carrying as reserve for the chemo treatment.
    MAde sense to me, so I have added in pastas, rice and some bread. My weight is 102Kg and is pretty constant.

    As I watch my bloods edge down, I wonder how the next 5 months will go.
    I have this horrible white tongue like someone painted it. It cannot be good
    and my Chine Herbal Medicine Onc.

    Getting my folfox yesterday I had the register check my lungs as I had this dry cough off and on for the last few days. My lungs were clear.

    I'll stay away from public places where infection is a risk.
    thanks,
    Pete

    Pete
    About your white tongue. I'd guess it is candida. Also known as thrush. It is a build up of yeast type of infection. Pleae mention it to your team. There are mouthwashes that work well for it. They are mostly wash and spit ... not swallow medications so they work locally and don't have to invade your system. My son does them and he is also on anti-fungals for it. Talk to your team about treating it because it will continue to build up and can migrate to the throat and further. My son coulldn't speak for months once it hit his vocal cords.
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    #9
    abrub said:

    Concerns re Green Tea
    I heard from an Integrative Medicine MD at Memorial Sloan Kettering that green tea is not good during chemo because it is a powerful anti-oxidant, and one of the things that chemo does is to oxidize your tumors. Thus, anti-oxidants during chemo will strengthen tumors against the chemo (while it does likewise to healthy cells.) Thus, green tea should be largely avoided.

    I avoided crowds as much as possible, and kept mini-bottles of hand sanitizer with me at all times, which I used after touching anything that someone else might have touched. Crazy as it sounds, I had my "healthiest" time - no colds or other, while being treated for cancer. Now, treatment is done, and I get colds and stuff again!

    Not everyone's counts drop - mine stayed good throughout.

    Wishing you a smooth time of it, Pete.

    Alice

    thanks lori and alice
    mouthwash and no more green tea.
    take care,
    Pete
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    #10
    AnneCan said:

    Pete
    It sounds like you are full of energy; good for you!

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    #11
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    hi graci i am just lucky i have a little money and time
    love chinese culture food, massage and medicine

    a mum at my daughters school pushed me to goto henry liang , he lectures tcm at uni here.
    two other mum's in remission breast cancer also highly recommended henry. i met him 4 weeks ago
    just before i started chemo. he impressed me alot and took time.

    he went through all my reports and scans and undeerstood and commented on them. this impressed me. he also said colorectal cancer really needs help from tcm and that its a 5 year treatment plan starting now.

    I see him every two weeks and its costs about $50 per week for the herbs and his consult. he is giving me great deal and i have asked him to specify a clinical trial and i have been asking
    medical oncologists if they will work with him on a trial . no takers so far.

    most of my treatment is covered by our national health and private insurance.

    traditional doctors have accepted my alternative tendencies in a supportitive way.
    i don't have tcm on chemo infusion days.

    had a great nights sleep, feel good except for thrush

    i value my support team , my wife, my psychologist, hypnotherapist, dietician, physiotherapist, friends, sex therapist, oncologists, surgeons, care nurses, pharmacists, counsellors.

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