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Why are people compelled to write about their religious beliefs in the specific cancer forums?

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4659
Joined: May 2005

This has been an issue for the 5+ years I have been a member of this site. It's been going on long before that and I am not the only person who finds this to be an issue worth discussing. While there are not very many people who speak out publicly (I have colon cancer and usually post there - or here) when I do make a comment about why are there quotes from the Bible in the colon cancer forum and I get "beaten up" by the Christians, I get many emails from people who thank me for speaking up. Many Christians even thank me. They also feel that it is inappropriate to post scripture in the section that is dealing with specific cancer types.

The purpose of the forums, as I understand the Terms & Conditions, is to help others by talking about treatment and side effects and how to deal with them. Also by giving first hand experiences of what one might expect while having colon surgery or whatever the case may be. It was not created to be a soapbox or pulpit for political or religious views. We all may have cancer (or be a caregiver) but we all are not Christians, or Jews, or Hindus, or Muslims, or Democrats, or Republicans, and the list can go on...

Possibly the reason that people are "so touchy about God" is that:
1-they may have a different God than the one you have.
2-they may not believe in God at all.
3-they may feel that it's not the proper forum for the discussion.
4-they just want to talk about cancer issues.

I can't help but think that if on the colon cancer forum, quotes from the Koran were posted on a regular basis that people who post there would be OK with that. I think we'd see more flags than there are at the United Nations. I do not mean to single Muslims out but there is a lot of backlash against them for 9/11 which they, as a religious group, had nothing at all to do with it. It's akin to blaming all Catholics for child molestation because of the actions of some priests, or all Christians to blame for the actions of Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma bombing.

If Muslims, Christian, Jews, or whatever faith wishes to post in the religion forum and follow the T&C, then we all have a forum to post things that may help us get through the cancer but are not offensive to others. This is a place that many people use and guidelines need to be followed. It really is that simple. If this were a Christian Cancer Site then I'd suspect there would be different guidelines and scripture would be welcome everywhere.

While there is the argument "if you don't like it don't read it" there is also one that says "if you post it where it belongs it's not an issue anymore". Of course there is the well wishes that people often give like "I'm praying for you" or "Please pray for me". I do not find that offensive at all nor do I think many others do. It's a common saying that is received many ways. Sort of like say "Hi, how are you?".

While many of my posts are not publicly received well, I feel this is an issue that needs to be looked at once again. This has little to do with God and more to do with Religion(s). There are hundreds of faiths. If we lived in a society where we all thought alike it wouldn't matter, but we don't.

Just wondering why people who violate the T&C of the site and get booted off still continue to reincarnate themselves and start it all over again.
Bobby...

bluerose's picture
bluerose
Posts: 1089
Joined: Jul 2009

I am going to try to keep this response simple because discussing religion or politics can lead to all kinds of hastles and no one needs more hastles on this board, right? Right.

Okay, so in answer to your question about why is it that people feel compelled to write about their religious beliefs in specific cancer forums I think it's because for them religion is very much a part of who they are and what they experience. They don't separate the two. I don't know what postings have prompted you to make up this particular question but I guess the issue too is 'how far do you go?' if discussing religion as part of one's cancer experience. You mention "pray for me" and "my prayers are with you" as being acceptable but maybe that even bothers some people. It's all relative. The reason they talk about it in specific cancer forums is because that is the cancer they themselves have had and so feel compelled to talk within, sharing all the experiences that went along with their specific cancer - including their religious thoughts. It's part of their cancer journey.

The reason that this forum works so well is that all views are welcomed from people when they are discussing their cancer experience and if we start to monitor this and that we will soon have a forum no one wants to attend because they will feel limiited. I don't think reciting passages from any religious book of any kind in great volume is a good idea for many reasons but the occassional quote here and there I think is interesting and might well be part of a person's recovery process and meaning to pass along well wishes and what they have learned by quoting such a phrase here and there.

When religion and politics are the basis for the posts that's different because this isn't a site for those issues alone but when people throw in their religious experience I think it is healing to them and maybe others who read it too. Let them share their healing moments through their religious beliefs because for them the beliefs are what helps them through cancer and they want to help others by sharing their beliefs how religion has worked for them. I for instance actually had a real healing while in transplant and I would feel remiss if I didn't share it with a site like this because of all the good it did me to have experienced that kind of thing. Also maybe others out there have had the same thing happen to them but felt awkward in sharing it and after reading my admission they could open up and talk about it. I don't like censorship unless it's harmful and I don't think mentioning a religious belief is harmful. The world is indeed made up of many types of people with many beliefs and all of those people have one thing in common - they can all be touched by cancer. We need, on sites like this to accept them all. That's my take on it anywho.

I enjoy your posts Phil, you make people think and that's a good thing, but on this topic I will have to disagree.

All the best Phil,
Bluerose

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

(Eric Clapton reference)

I have been upfront with people about my religious beliefs (or absence thereof, as a practicing agnostic -- a group you left off of your list by the way: 5. they may not know one way or the other and do not want persuasion from you as that is simply not going to cut it (and not you, phil, but, well you know who).

I find it rather touching when a believer asks me if I would mind if they pray for me prior to me going into treatment or tests or some such. Of course, I do not mind, and I typically say that since I don't know one way or the other, it may help, and it certainly can't hurt, and that I am thankful for their thoughtfulness.

But what strikes me most about it is that while they seem to be true believers, they are respecting my beliefs (or lack thereof) as well. (And some of them have been known to say, "If you had said no, I would have prayed for you anyway.")

Again, though, there is that fundamental respect for one anothers' beliefs, and the ability to show compassion and even faith without sending a sermon down from the mount.

I think, really, though, that Greta ended the matter with her mention of the terms and conditions, which you also cite: no proselyzing. Period. End of story.

It would be sad if this particular board were turned into a virtual battle zone, after it has been so much a beacon of tolerance in its infancy. Yeah, there have been some bumps and bruises (and I probably just committed one of same on the previous post you respond to here), but we have found a way somehow to attempt to enlighten one another, to share our 'spiritual' histories and experiences with little 'flaming' at all.

As for not all believing in the same thing, I thought we ALL believed in rock 'n' roll?

Take care, my friend,

Joe

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4659
Joined: May 2005

Hi BlueRose,
You said "When religion and politics are the basis for the posts that's different because this isn't a site for those issues alone but when people throw in their religious experience I think it is healing to them and maybe others who read it too.". I agree with you, there are times when religion fits in with the posts. I realize that it's a big part of many people's lives and that it also helps many people cope with what they have to cope with. It's the beginning part that you mention that is when (I believe) it becomes an issue.

I can understand if someone is new to the site that they probably didn't read the T&C (who really reads the fine print anyway?) so I can see how they might make certain posts at first. There have been times though when posts like "Prayers for the Week of XX-XX" have been made that do not seem appropriate on a public forum about cancer. The same goes for quotes of Bible verses. Like my example of posting Koran quotes, I don't imagine that people would welcome that with open arms. I do not set the rules for the site. If the site said people can post whatever they want then it's a different story.

People often mistake this discussion as a censorship or freedom of speech issue. It's really not. It's about following the guidelines set forth by the ACS. There is also a common misconception that America was founded on Christian beliefs. Most of the Founding Fathers were deists - they believed in God but rejected as superstitious mythology crucial Christian dogmas such as the Incarnation.

Any yes Joe, I left out Agnostics which I consider myself to be too. I do not know the answer. There certainly are many people who have religions that feel they DO know the answer which makes ME question things more. Everyone can't be right (or could they?)

It's a gray area at times. A person's faith can play an important part in healing yet it has become (at times) Bible Study. I appreciate the site a lot and it's helped me and I know I've helped others over the years. But if it were to become the Christian Cancer Site it would become very exclusive and that's not a good thing.

I think we agree more than we disagree BlueRose, thanks for your comments.
Joe, thanks for your input and musical reference too.
-phil

sea60's picture
sea60
Posts: 2601
Joined: May 2010

but when I do, I sense a lot of tension, negative undertones and sarcasm. Maybe they need to just divide this site further...Believers and UN-Believers. Or Athiest/Christian/Catholic/Jew...etc...do you think that might work?

Or if the same people keep getting riled up and preachy cuz nobody's playing right, then just remove this category.

Better to keep the peace than constantly ruffling feathers!

bluerose's picture
bluerose
Posts: 1089
Joined: Jul 2009

That's my big fear with any controversial discussion on these boards or in the chatroom, newbies coming in and witnessing that kind of thing - no matter what the subject matter.

However having said that cancer is a multi emotional issue as you no doubt well know and multiply that by all the different types of people in the world who might have cancer in their family plus whatever beliefs got them through or failed - you are bound to wind up with dissention sooner or later. Many sites go through this for the above reasons and more.

Like anywhere else people have their up and down days and anger is an issue that comes up alot when dealing with any life threatening disease or situation so it's bound to happen that one day something someone says is going to trigger a strong reaction.

This site though, I must say, is a million times better than any other site I have ever been on when it comes to people getting along and helping each other. That happens more than the fighting does, that's for sure.

In a perfect world we would say to ourselves 'let that comment go, take the high road' and of course that's the best idea but if you feel strongly about something (and cancer sure can drag up the tender spots) it's sometimes hard to ignore. People mean well on this site though and it has been and will continue to be very helpful to most visitors.
I do however wish that those who seem to like arguing need to tone it down, and they know who they are. I hope I state my cases and objections in a civil manner but I know that sometimes I probably get a little off track too. I'm only human but again I am proud of this site, really a clean and helpful source for many survivors. More than not.

Blessings,
Bluerose

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
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Joined: Jul 2006

Actually, I've enjoyed coming to this board to hear what others have to say. I like the discussion as long as everyone respects each other.

bluerose's picture
bluerose
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Joined: Jul 2009

Explained that way I think we agree more than disagree too Phil and thanks for clearning up a few things in your post here.

I am trying to stay away from religious discussion but I am a little tainted when it comes to this topic I guess, focusing on one's passion for religion and not being able to separate the two in discussions like the one on these boards. I am not a church goer but do believe and when I mentioned the part about people who are eager to share their experiences with others to help them, centering on their religious beliefs, it's because I had an actual healing and that is something that is so enormous it's hard not to share. But I don't as a rule because of the rules on this site.

Well actually that's a lie because I did talk about it once because I was asked to by another member but I only mention it briefly in passing now. I don't know if I am making myself clear or not, it's early here yet - lol, but what I am trying to say is that if one experiences humoungous things pertaining to religion - things that help others in the cancer experience (or could help them like it did the person to whom it all happened) it's pretty hard to hold that back. For some citing a scripture might have worked for them and you know cancer survivors - they all have that built in need to help others and share.

But in the end you are right and so is CSN in that this isn't a religious or political forum so the posts can't solely be on religion itself in a preachy kind of way or politics either for that matter.

When issues are so close to a person, be it religion or whatever the case may be, and it gets them through the night I find it super hard to take that away from them especially when they are battling something as enormous as cancer. Know what I mean?

Anywho dats my 3 cents. Hope this response finds you well. Take care of you.

Blessings,
Bluerose

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
Posts: 2731
Joined: Jul 2006

I thought it was ok to talk about our religious experience as far as cancer goes in how it helped us with the cancer. So I would think talking about healing falls under that area. I thought the preaching or trying to convert others was out of line. Sometimes there is a fine line.

John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

I think what Phil and many of us are referring to, are the posts
that are like this:

"By The Stripes Of Our Lord Jesus Christ We Are Healed...Cancer I Demand
You To Leave Our Bodies And Go To The Feet Of My Lord Jesus Christ......
..... For those who are, remember to pray each and every day to our father
who truly is the one who will heal you not the doctors or the chemo.
"

It was a very insensitive post, essentially saying that if you don't believe and pray
the same as I do
, you will be damned to die.

It was not in good taste to post such comments on the cancer sections;
but even here, on a forum designated to spiritual beliefs, it's equally as
insensitive and rude.

At least one can choose -not- to read at this forum at all, while still
getting the support and answers to cancer related questions on the
other forums. And that is the point of that debacle.

There's a place for everything; that's part of the CSN terms and
conditions we accept when we come here to read and post.

The comments that Phil mentioned, about those claiming of being
"attacked" by "those that hate God, the Bible, and Christians",
also bothered me as well as many others.

No-one "hates" anyone else here, and making false claims like that
repeatedly and continually, is only promoting division and hate, neither
of which belongs on a forum dedicated to help those in need at a
time so critical in life......much less in life itself.

I may have my facts wrong, but I think I read someplace that
someone named "Jesus Christ" talked against such mongering
of hate, prejudice, and bigotry...... I'll have to check on that....

I'm sure most of us have not always said the right thing at the
right time, or perhaps insulted someone when we did not mean to.

I try to forgive, as we all should forgive; just as we all hope
to be forgiven.

Best of health to all.....

May we all be friends forever....

John

Hondo's picture
Hondo
Posts: 5608
Joined: Apr 2009

I have heard Phil complain about this a few times but never realized what he was referring too. I too as a Christian would get up-set if I opened a post and read stuff like that all the time. I do use a scripture now and then but only in writing about a subject I am talking about and not for display or to infringe on some else . In my life I find it too short to be in a fuss all the time about things, I am happy in my belief and respect others and what they believe.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4659
Joined: May 2005

COMPLAIN?

I prefer to call it bringing to the attention of.....but I won't complain about the word complain ;-)

I really do not think that this forum would exist without the comment over a year ago that made a reference that without believing in "HIM (Jesus Christ)" that all we deserve is hell. This was posted in the main comment section of a particular cancer type and not in a "religion or faith" section since they did not have them at the time. That comment really does not say much about "faith" in my opinion, it's more of an jab at non-believers in Jesus. And as far as saying we deserve hell, well that speaks for itself. It's the most un-christian comment I've ever heard without a doubt.

So I am very glad that they did start this forum because a person's faith is very important to them and I personally find it very interesting to hear most of the comments made here. Especially by those who are NOT christian. You know I enjoy the writings of JC (the other JC- Joseph Campbell) and his comparisons between the beliefs of different faiths. Different faiths have a lot more in common that most people would think.

But the point of my post was that there is a place for the Bible, Koran, etc quotes and it is not in the middle of the specific cancer types.
You know I enjoy your posts Hondo. I hope you are doing well.
-phil

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

You, Kathy, represent this board as well as anyone, and epitomize the tolerance that we should all strive for. You are clearly a woman of Christian faith, but you also clearly seek knowledge and accept diversity.

I tend to enjoy your posts and salute you for your openness.

Take care,

Joe

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Joined: May 2005

I DO wish there are more Muslim and Hindu posts on this site. It's great to hear what others think. But I do believe that many people do not post issues of faith because they are not on the approved faith list. I have no facts to back it up other than my gut feeling. There is at times a Christian presence which is extremely strong and not shy. That's here nor there but it's here. Sort of a power in numbers kind of thing.

The great thing is that no one really knows what happens after we die. We may believe this or that because our faith or religion says it's so but no one that I know of, has died and came back and said this is how it is...

dasspears
Posts: 233
Joined: Feb 2009

Just saying I like the way you think.

On another note: I have had two occasions to be near/around Buddhist monks. On each occasion, I felt the most pronounced peaceful feeling. I don't know if it emanated from them or it was their aura but it was warm and peaceful. I have never felt that anywhere else.

sea60's picture
sea60
Posts: 2601
Joined: May 2010

did you ever read the book 90 minutes in Heaven?

I know I've read different accounts of people who have "died" and have experienced what they feel was either something heavenly or something hellish.

Although there are many cities deemed "melting pots" here in the U.S., I think there are just a large number of people who believe in Christ, and because of that larger percentage, shouldn't be made to feel like they're monopolizing this site. They're just sharing their feelings much like you.

I'm just saying maybe you'll never really get a good balance of different faiths.

bluerose's picture
bluerose
Posts: 1089
Joined: Jul 2009

Something 'heavanly' did happen to me during my isolation during my bone marrow transplant and having something that extraordinary happen to you personally is defintely a game changer in how you look at faith. It's very hard not to get into talking about it all the time in order to help people understand the power that you personally experienced but I hold back because of rules.

I think personally it's a shame that people feel this way because I personally believe it can be very encouraging and healing for many in reading such accounts. That's why people talk about their religion - it works for them and they want it to work for others. However as I said before there is a limit and when the whole thrust of a post to to try to convert people or focus 100% on biblical passages then I think it can cross a line.

Anywho, just throwing in my 4 cents.

Blessings,
Bluerose

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Joined: May 2005

but have heard of it. I have a good friend who had an out of body experience once. It happened during a very bad skiing accident. I believe what happened to him 100%.

I have no problem with people sharing their beliefs. I find it interesting and at times even entertaining. I do not think there will ever be a balance either for many reasons. One being what you said about there being a larger percentage of Christians in the US. As far as monopolizing the site, if they do it in this forum then that's the way the cards fall. My only issue is when the intense feelings and statements (for lack of better words) are present in the specific cancer sections of the site. The religion forum is here so they can be posted here, just like colon cancer posts go in the colon cancer forum, not in the brain cancer forum.
(there's an unintentional joke in there somewhere....)

bluerose's picture
bluerose
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Joined: Jul 2009

That will wake you up when you have one of those I can tell you. Sure did me.

I have had other experiences that amount to healings and that will cement the fact that God truly exists in someone who has had the great nonour of receiving one. I can't describe it because it would be taken as too religious I would imagin. Actually someone messaged me as she wanted to know what had happened and in the confines of a private chat I described it but what a pity that I feel unable to do that on the boards. I do think that I explained it once when asked, on the boards, before I knew of the policy. So many people might benefit from stories like healing occurances or could have had one themselves and have just felt uneasy about sharing. I have to add that the out of body experience frightened me, the healing did not so I wonder about the sources of each. Just my little humble opinion.

Oh well, everything for a reason I say. Your comment Phil, about a friend who had an out of body experience prompted me to chime in about my experiences.

Take care Phil.

Blessings to all,

Bluerose

RE's picture
RE
Posts: 4606
Joined: Feb 2004

If you found that book to be interesting try 23 Minutes IN Hell by Bill Wiese.

RE

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3388
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Just mentioning, because well, it was brought up, no Amish seen posting.
Having been around the Amish, let me tell you we'll never see an Amish person post here. They um, if you didn't realize, don't believe in electricity, and I've yet to see a natural gas (yes, they will use natural gas)driven computer.
Just mentioning.

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3388
Joined: Apr 2010

The ones you see driving cars, using electricity are the Minunites (spelled wrong I'm sure) they are a break off of a sort of the Amish (not quite correct anology here)they will drive cars, but if you notice, there are NO radios in the cars. They don't listen to radio, TV, etc.
Winter Marie

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
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Joined: Apr 2010

But the Mennonite's I know in Springfield Ohio area, absolutely NONE have radio's in cars or use any the the blasphemous TV's, Ipod's, laptops etc., and I do mean none in my area of Springfield. They dress as the Amish, bonnet's, vest's, etc.,I remember one wanted a kitty of mine, but I told them he wasn't ready yet, when the time came that he was ready, I didn't know how to get hold of them. So when I was strawberry picking, I saw a Mennonite family and asked them if they knew of the one that wanted my kitty ( no name was mentioned, as I didn't remember their name). They said they knew who it was and would let them know the kitty was ready. Sure enough the next day, they were at my house to pick up the kitty kitty. You have to admire, such close knit "family".
Winter Marie

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
Posts: 2731
Joined: Jul 2006

I have ancestors who where Amish and others were Mennonites. As a child my parents would take me to family reunions of that line and the ladies had their caps on and wore dark dresses.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4659
Joined: May 2005

I do have an old steam powered computer
;-)

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

Fortunately, mine is pedal powered, so I have it hooked up to my exercise bike. It's the only way I get any exercise. The downside, of course, is that file transfers are really slow when I'm tired.

Take care,

Joe

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4659
Joined: May 2005

I didn't realize that there was that much diversity within the Christian faith. But I would think that the bottom line is that they all believe that Christ was the Son of God (hence the word Christian). But why all of the diversity I wonder? I've heard similar stories on here about people being told by "friends" that they are going to hell because they belong to the wrong church or that they are not praying hard enough and that's why they either have cancer or are going to hell.
I find that so weird. More frightening really that people truly believe that someone else is of the "wrong faith" and therefore is going to hell or eternal damnation.
Thanks for the post Graci
-p

imagineit2010's picture
imagineit2010
Posts: 153
Joined: Jan 2010

Funny, I see alot of colon cancer people over here... Phil, this is very similar to the whole nutrition debate. Some people believe that diet cured them and anyone with bad eating habits will never recover from cancer. Some people refuse to believe anything they did with lifestyle caused their cancer and it's just bad luck or exercise is the only way to live. There are valid arguments about all of these but they don't have to be arguments. People are permitted to express their method of dealing and fighting cancer regardless of who disagrees. I have to ask, who are you sticking up for anyway when you reply on a religious themed post and say these posts are offensive to people. If you feel something is offensive then flag it and be done. That is how the system is supposed to work. No one needs to be the spokesman of any other group of people stating that other people find something offensive. Your admonishment of someone for posting religious beliefs is as off topic and no different than their original post. You are likewise making a statement that has little to do with living or fighting cancer but simply making a personal statement. I may not have as many years on here as some but in my 1 year here I have never read a reply from a Jewish or Budist or Satanist member that was offended by a religious post. It always seems it's the agnostic or aethiest that is offended and I must ask, where is the tollerance??? It boils down to respecting others and being considerate to the mental state of someone dealing with this disease. Obviously if someone makes a religious themed post they are doing it for themselves and it is one way of handling their own unique situation. Why turn it into controversy? I also notice it is usually newer members that make the type of post you are reffering to and I believe a simple correction from Gretta should solve any questions about the use of the forum.
Well, that's my nicklel worth.
Take care, Chris

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
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Greta did make a correction: she said in one of the posts here that prosletyizing was prohibited. I do not know how much clearer you can get than that.

Historically, christians and muslims have been prompted to spread the word, some denominations more strongly than others in both cases. And so, clearly, it shows up here.

There can be no doubt of that. There IS preaching going on in these boards, and even some of the people who have answered this post know that they are being hypocritical in agreeing that it should not happen, since they are among the ones that make it difficult for others to stay.

Do you realize that for some people being confronted by a strong religious, preaching presence runs them off? Is that even imaginable to you?

Well, it's true.

Is that what you want?

I believe that phil is spot on. I believe that Greta has reminded us of the ground rules. I wonder what the controversy is? It seems plain to me.

If you want to talk about cancer, come to this site. If you want to preach, come to this particular board or build a church.

Take care,

Joe

imagineit2010's picture
imagineit2010
Posts: 153
Joined: Jan 2010

UMMM, sorry Joe but you may be mistaken. Greta did say proselytising is prohibited but she did NOT specify that what was posted WAS Proselytising. If she did then she is incorrect. There is a difference between proselytizing and preaching. Proselytizing involves coersion or force or threats in an attempt to convert someone to anothers belief or to change their opinion. Simple preaching DOES NOT. Proselytizing also shows up in the subject of treatment choices. Many people STRONGLY advocate conventional therapies noting how people they know have died because they didn't do one thing or another. People advocating alternative therapies are sometimes chastised or ridiculed with accusations that there is no solid proof of alternative treatment efficacy and to try them is foolish. Much like agnostics sometimes ridicule believers. I don't see anyone getting flagged for using scare tactics to advocate chemo and radiation but it happens. Why is it when it involves health and medicine it's advise but religion it's preaching?
This is a support forum and everyone will not be pleased all the time. We will all do better if we just say what we think or believe in our own post without confronting someone elses post.( unless the post is in the form of a question)
Joe, I have a very good imagination and I can imagine that bickering and confrontational replies are far more disstressing to people than a religious post. Can YOU imagine that the majority of people do NOT share your animosity toward religion and while they may skip over and just not read a religious post it doesn't actually SCARE them away. Are people sending you or Phil PMs saying different??? Has anyone personaly told you they don't come on here because of an occassional religious post? I have heard people say they stay off because of the arguing and fighting that follows a religious post. Who's fault is that? Also, I hardly call one out of every twenty or thirty posts a STRONG religious presence.
I personaly think Phil couldn't be further from "spot on" but that's just my opinion. The controversy seems clear to me too, some people are confrontational when they see something they don't agree with and want to tell other people what to do and not to do.
Best wishes....... Heathen....LOL
Chris

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3388
Joined: Apr 2010

First all, love your posts.
Secondly, well, hmmm, I've tried to reflect on my words, so they aren't offensive to you, I enjoy seeing you, your thoughts, etc.
I though, believe that when I see posts that are strictly religious, continuously religious in nature, that I get, well, I get sort of ticked off. Why is this? Because prayer did not save my first born, yes, I was deeply religious, yes I prayed fervently, yes, I believed that he would not die, all this before they put me to sleep, I awoke, to know he took his first and last breath and I was not there. They buried him while I was still in the hospital, only the Priest and the mortician were there to stand at his grave.
You see the power of prayer didn't save him, no one prayed more then I when I knew he was in distress and needed to be born. Did my prayers save him? Simply, no.
Did this turn me away from God? No.
Did this turn me away from the power of prayer? No.
But I refuse to listen to someone come on the colon network and tell me, that only God can save me. Heck I'm a worthless human being, compared to my innocent son, for whom the most powerful prayers were said for, so I KNOW the power of prayer isn't going to save my sorry arse. And that is why I have objection to it, why, I don't want to just see Bible verses spouted, why I don't want to be told, only God and God alone can save me, because just maybe he doesn't want to save me that day, so I've got to rely on something else to do so.
I want to hear how you are doing, you ask for a prayer, by golly I'm going to say one for you, you didn't ask for a prayer, but you'll get one anyway, but that's doesn't mean I'm going to spout my belief's on to you. Not in my DNA anymore. I was a Bible toting 14 year old, believing every word, even becoming a minister, ministering to the homeless and the poor, now, well, now I'm just me. I pray to a higher being, I'll offer a prayer or two and hope they do some good. I'll take a prayer or two, heck some lady came to my house today and gave one heck of a prayer for me, did I deny her that? Nope, I closed my eyes, I let her pray to her God, and I hoped that a word or two from her might of helped. Did I totally believe in it? Nope. But I won't crush or play lightly with anothers beliefs, to each their own.
But does it bother me to see it on the colon board. Simply, yes.
Winter Marie

imagineit2010's picture
imagineit2010
Posts: 153
Joined: Jan 2010

Hey Marie, I know we've had our differences before but I too enjoy reading your posts and feel you have alot to offer. First let me say how sorry I am for your loss no matter how long ago it may have been. To lose a loved one is a difficult thing and can devestate some people. I know first hand that some people carry on afterward and some don't. Second let me say that I do believe in God, always have and always will. I have faith and knowledge that I will continue to exist beyond what my physical body will allow. This type of faith allows people to continue living after horrible,sad and traumatic events in our lives like the death of a loved one. Some may call this ignorant bliss but it's better than intelligent depression. Some of the smartest people i've ever known suffer badly from depression. (too smart for their own good???) Faith and hope go together like this and hope is the greatest gift one person can give to another. Hope is like a blank check someone gives you for "emergencies only". Knowing you have it there makes getting through anything easier. A foolish person tries to cash it at the first sign of adversity.(my brother, a raging alcoholic, used to buy a lottery ticket and not look at it for a year waking up every day thinking "I might be a millionaire". He'd have 364 days of hope). I have seen someone with hope pass away and it is actually a beautifull thing. I have likewise seen someone without hope and it is a scary, dark ride. Anyway Marie, I have to ask, why do you think any religious post would be directed at you? You say you "refuse to come on the colon network and someone tell YOU that only God can save YOU". If it doesn't have YOUR name on it, why would you or anyone take that personal? If someone says they hate white people I don't think they hate ME personally so I'm not offended at that. If someone spouts off on cancer victims being jerks I don't take that personal unless I think I've been a jerk to someone and I may have caused that person to feel that way. I have punched in the face trying to break up a fight (when I was younger) and I did not retaliate on that person because I knew it was not directed at me "personally". (I've also kicked someone's a$$ just because they needed it and was thanked for it afterward). I think many people take things too seriously in life. Going into what you said about people praying for you and what this post is about I think most of us know the following. People tend to post on these forums for themselves. It makes them feel better to share something or to offer help to another person. When one gives to charity it makes the giver feel better about themselves. The most unselfish acts are deeply selfish in nature because, as anyone knows, it truly feels better to give than to receive and to help rather than receive help. So, knowing this, if someone offers a well intentioned post on here, regardless of it's content, I believe that person feels the need to do so and I would allow it. By showing that tolerance I feel better about myself and any small amount of sufferance I may experience is outweighed by the peace that comes with tolerance. Now, if someone's post is obtrusive or demeaning or insulting then I feel the need to voice my own opinion to counter that which I feel is intentionaly divicive. Also, you should know that while you may not want or need to hear about being "saved" I am sure you would agree that someone on here probably does and if it might "help" just one person and it doesn't "hurt" you then YOU have helped that one person by allowing it. Just like you did with the woman who prayed for you. She may have prayed for you but she did it for herself and you know that and by showing tolerance toward her YOU in turn felt better for it. It's a vicious circle of good feelings.... One more thing Marie, (also my Grandmother's first, my Mom's middle and my Daughter's middle name by the way), I know this is very personal and you can choose not to answer but why do you still have faith in medicine and doctors who could not save your son but lost faith in prayer for the same failure? You are obviously a caring and "spirited" individual that remembers how that 14 year old girl felt after "ministering" to believers or non-believers. Just the feeling of trying to help someone, a total stranger, for no apperent reason feels good so when you see a religious post why intentionally take that away from someone else. Of course in life there are some zealots and they can be annoying and sometimes dangerous and their intentions are what sepperates them and I agree with Phil in that ill intentioned ,threatening zealots should not be tolerated but all religious posts are not like that and to blindly prohibit all of them is wrong. Hope is a big part of healing and faith (in doctors or God)is a big part of hope and relgion is a big part of faith so it is all about healing and surviving which is what we are all here for.
Here's "hoping" our "faith" in whatever has kept us here this long will continue into the new year.
Best wishes to all,
Chris

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
Posts: 2731
Joined: Jul 2006

I had been lurking about on another cancer discussion board and some people were talking about the CSN site and how they stopped coming here because it was too religious and if they wanted preaching or scripture they'd go to church. I was quite shocked because I didn't think someone would leave for that reason either and at the time I didn't see that many religious posts. But I have to believe it now. When you don't feel well lots of things will scare you away that you'd be stronger to deal with if you were well.

imagineit2010's picture
imagineit2010
Posts: 153
Joined: Jan 2010

Hi Marcia, I understand but were these people religious at all or anti-religion people? I'm not here for a sermon either but it may help someone else and who am I to deny them? I'm sure if someone looks hard enough on the internet there is probably a site for aethiests and satanists and every other group. Just because someone doesn't fit in here doesn't mean they are left out in the cold. They are still welcome here whether they believe it or not and if there is enough interest they may even get their own catagory...

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
Posts: 2731
Joined: Jul 2006

I don't know.
When I read the posts on the other site it was a couple years ago and I didn't see anyone stating what religion or non that they were. I can't remember at this point. I just felt a loss that they felt they couldn't get support here. This was before CSN started the religion board. Actually this board isn't called 'religion' board. hee hee. It's just shorter for me to type and I'm lazy.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4659
Joined: May 2005

You are mistaken. I have plenty of emails that support all that I have done with the exception of one from you back in December. I forget which of your multiple named personalties (but still the same of guy we love) it was from. Maybe it was fugetaboutit2010?
I also think you are wrong with the amount of people who do not wish to be preached at. Even those who are Christians do not care for your tactics and question your motives.

Are you proselytizing? You seem to be trying to split hairs or to guess how many angels can fit on the head of a pin but the overall view on here is that we really do not wish to hear you yapping about this. It helps no one except maybe you and your ilk.

I'm glad you admit that you have a very good imagination, that is one point we ALL can agree on.

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Jumping in on an old thread, but Chris was wrong on this one:

Mark 8:34
Whosoever will come after me—It seems that Christ formed, on the proselytism of the Jews, the principal qualities which he required in the proselytes of his covenant.
The first condition of proselytism among the Jews was, that he that came to embrace their religion should come voluntarily, and that neither force nor influence should be employed in this business. This is also the first condition required by Jesus Christ, and which he considers as the foundation of all the rest:—If a man be willing to come after me.

The board also forbids giving medical advice:
No User shall advise other Users about medical care or attempt to influence their medical care decisions. Members are encouraged to share their own medical experiences, but medical advice to others is strictly prohibited, regardless of a Member's medical education, credentials, or experience. The purpose of the Cancer Survivors Network is a peer to peer support service

Lastly, all of this is at the interpretation of ACS and the admin's, not some user who believes they know how a thing should be:
Removal of content; right but not obligation to monitor content: ACS shall have the right, exercisable in its sole and absolute discretion, but not the obligation, to refuse to post or to delete any information or data which ACS becomes aware of which ACS determines, in its sole and absolute discretion, to be offensive, racist, lewd, profane, obscene, pornographic, hateful, rude, abusive, disruptive, defamatory or otherwise in violation of this Usage Agreement.

By being here and using this space we agree to abide by these rules. It is not denying you freedom of speech, nor impinging on your rights in any other way as it is not a .gov site.

If you do not like the rules go to another sandbox.

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

Well said, Buck.

Take care,

Joe

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4659
Joined: May 2005

"People are permitted to express their method of dealing and fighting cancer regardless of who disagrees. I have to ask, who are you sticking up for anyway when you reply on a religious themed post and say these posts are offensive to people" IF people read the Terms & Conditions of the site it would be a moot point Chris. They don't. I am more bothered than offended by reading the scriptures that are posted in specific cancer forums. I would also be bothered if in every forum people posted their sexual preference or political affiliation. It's got NOTHING to do with the cancer. I don't care what someone's religious, sexual, or political preferences are at all.

It's not a B&W issue at all which is why it's one of those topics that is best to not be discussed at parties. There are so many opinions on it and it's not an argument that can won or lost. No one knows who created the universe and what happens after we die and all of those great questions of life. People may think they know and maybe they're right and maybe they're wrong.

You're right, my even responding to those who post scripture is off the topic of fighting cancer. There have been times when I have not responded and things snowball into topics such as "Prayers for the week of xxx-xxx". As a person who has access to this public site I am not going to sit back and be silent and let the cancer specific areas become religious forums. Being quiet does not seem to help and flagging has only gotten people to start threads about censorship and/or freedom of speech. Not posts about "Opps, I violated the T&C of the site"

I do disagree with you Chris on this being similar to the diet/nutrition debate. I don't think that saying that one should eat only healthy vegetables is the same as being told that if one does not accept Jesus as their savior that they deserve hell. Or that God gave you cancer because a person was naughty.

I do agree with the respect issue too although you may not think that I do. I respect people enough to not start posts that I know would be offensive to people dealing with their cancer in the specific cancer sections. I'm sure on THIS forum I've offended many so as far as that goes, I am no better than the others.

On another note, the colon cancer forum is second in posts only to the breast cancer forum which is probably why you see so many CC people here. It's all about T's & A's...
Also, the main "blow up" started on there.

be well
-p
PS: just one last thought on this. You say Chris that I could just ignore this (what I feel are overly religious posts) and not respond to them. You could have easily done the same with my post here but you felt strongly enough about the topic to voice your opinion on what I had to say. As you see, it's more easily said than done.
Have a great weekend.

imagineit2010's picture
imagineit2010
Posts: 153
Joined: Jan 2010

The difference here Phil is that you started this post with a question which is asking for replies. The religious post I think you are reffering too openly stated it was a religious topic so as to give the reader the choice of reading it or not. No one was forced to read it and I don't believe it greatly reduced the amount of available space on the website. I for one have been on here for about a year and this is the first time i've read the "spiritual, religious forum" so I can see how someone could post in a specific forum first. Just saying.... Phil, you don't have to ignore it just flag it and move on without the conflict....
Chris

7hallbergs
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 2011

"I didn't realize that there was that much diversity within the Christian faith. But I would think that the bottom line is that they all believe that Christ was the Son of God (hence the word Christian). But why all of the diversity I wonder?"

Hope I can answer that, apologize in advance for any grammatical errors:

Phil, I go to a lutheran church, and from what I've read about other sects and my own, there are some key differences within denominations, even within the lutheran churches. For example, many christian denominations believe that Christ died for the sins of all, but that you still need to do good deeds for salvation; that only older children should be baptized, that you need to do other certain things to "be reborn";that evolution and intelligent design can comingle; that the bible's teachings are old fashioned and should get with the times, and the list goes on. (ps. ANY church that tells you that you did something to deserve your cancer is false-Run in the other direction!) I have heard our pastor stress during studies that when the bible mentions the holy Christian church, it is not referring to a building (look, that one there! THATS the one!) or denomination of the religion, it is referring to all believers-there are believers of Christ in all of the denominations.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4659
Joined: May 2005

Hi 7hallbergs,
I started this thread in response to the "Fighting Cancer Without God Would Be Terrible" post that was made by Bruins1971 (and all of his alias's/incarnations since then). It was more of a why talk plumbing in an automobile store. Yes, it's kind of related but if there is a separate automobile section, why not go there to talk about automobiles. Some people feel that everyone has the same belief system as they do. That is not true and it's rather absurd to think that.

I've noticed how much diversity there is in religion, especially in Christianity. I feel that if everyone practiced the "Golden Rule" that the world would be a better place. It's as simple as that. One can not force their belief on another yet it's been done over and over and over again with no success. I have no idea why mankind (an oxymoron if I ever heard one) is compelled to do that.

One topic that is too often overlooked on this forum is that there are other belief systems that have nothing to do with Christ and they are just as valid as any other. The topic comes up on occasion, it's always refreshing I find.
;-)

jln
Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 2012

I recently loss my wife to lung cancer. She was devoutly religious and a very kind gentle person. I was never that religious but I did believe in the very same as she did although we both were very private about it. When she was first diagnosed with cancer, she was very positive and expressed that she was going to beat cancer. I took a leap of faith and got on the same vibe she was on. WE had numerous friends and church people praying for her and I. I did something I never did in my life by going to church before it opened up, kneeled down on the altar we were married on, and prayed for a miracle healing. I even expressed that I would do anything to bring about goodness in other people's lives or to be the one to be sickened in her place so she could continue her goodness in this world. I even got up in front of the church and asked everyone to pray for a miracle healing and that they did.

Her situation just got worst and she passed away not wanting to leave this life. My newfound faith collapsed as I found the old passage, "asked and you shall recieve" was not true. Now I question everything about what we have been taught. I even had a prayer that I wrote in her memorial service thanking her for sharing her life with me and asked that we be reuntied in heaven forever. Now I am crushed that there may be no such thing as heaven, a place where we are reunited forever. Without proof, I simply find I can no longer rely on faith or cliques to hang on to. How are we to know and accept? I am tryly lost without my wife, whom I consider a higher Holy Spirit who came to me, graced me with her presence and became a Goddess in my life, lifing me everyday with her kindness and beauty. I never experienced that with God or Jesus. All bets that I never will. Nothing could be as pure as my lovely wife.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4659
Joined: May 2005

I'm very sorry for the loss of your wife.
Maybe there is some way we can be reunited with others who entered our lives that has absolutely nothing to do with religion or without the concept of God. I don't know, I haven't died so I can't say with any certainty what happens next. But I do believe that the love you have for your wife will live inside you forever...
-phil

winter woman
Posts: 14
Joined: Nov 2012

Phil,I just want to say I agree with you. I have read a lot of comments here and almost decided not to stay ..however...

Fighting Cancer without a Spiritual belief would be horrible..for ME..everyone else, will do whatever then can or believe in to fight this terrible disease.
Note I said Spiritual,not Christian or any other Religion.

I am a Native American woman. We dont have a "religion", but a Spirituality, that we live every single day of our lives, so fighing this cancer is just normal to me, believeing that my Creator, who is kind, sympathetic and powerful, will be helping me, due to all the prayers said FOR me and BY me..my prayers are not written down..in a book or anywhere else. We are taught from childhood to give thanks for every day and for everything that happens to us, good OR bad...because its part of life..we can and do, pray everywhere..outside and inside..

I have to say, there were many Christian folks of every denomination who worked very hard to destroy our Spirituality and convert or "save" us from our "pagan" ways. I give thanks it didnt work for a vast majority of us and that our People are coming back to our old traditions and Spritual ways.

I wont go on anymore, because most of my beliefs are private. I saw the title of this forum and thought that Spiritual things would be accepted. I am sorry if i was wrong.

and btw. I am stage 4 with Colon cancer.. thought gone in 2008.. popped up again in my lung and other places ...I am not afraid to die.

so i will hold my breath and post a quote from one of our wise and strong leaders..

Chief Seattle said... "There is no death, only a change of worlds"..that comforts me.

and I have every intentions of making each day count. And i wish that for all of you! Toska..til later.

mariam_11_09's picture
mariam_11_09
Posts: 693
Joined: Nov 2009

There are some Muslims on this board. They just don't speak out about their faith maybe because it appears predominantly Christian. Recently on the Breast Cancer discussion board when someone was asked to post her daily scriptures on this board many of the women were up in arms. When I pointed out that this woman was posting in violation of the terms of the board I was accused as the person who complained about her posting daily scriptures and this was the reason she could no longer post the on the BC board. I received other unpleasant accusatory messages for several days by several women! I did consider leaving the board.

As for finding support, most Muslims find it from the support groups at their local Mosque. Muslim women are typically like sisters and will help each other out in any way they can. Likewise with the men. Charity is one of the 5 pillars of Islam and does not only mean charity in the form of money. The Prophet (pbuh) said, "Even meeting your brother with a cheerful face is an act of charity."

I agree, it is a loss that other faiths don't always feel that comfortable or feel they will be well received even on this board.

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