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Polyphenols in Red Wine and Green Tea Halt Prostate Cancer Growth, Study Suggests

bdhilton
Posts: 752
Joined: Jan 2010

I love my red wine and green tea...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100609171802.htm

"In what could lead to a major advance in the treatment of prostate cancer, scientists now know exactly why polyphenols in red wine and green tea inhibit cancer growth. This new discovery, published online in The FASEB Journal, explains how antioxidants in red wine and green tea produce a combined effect to disrupt an important cell signaling pathway necessary for prostate cancer growth. This finding is important because it may lead to the development of drugs that could stop or slow cancer progression, or improve current treatments..."

Will_10_2010
Posts: 43
Joined: Nov 2010

A friend gave me two websites to look at:
www.prevention.com
This is a magazine site but highlights foods that the author has used in his fight against cancer. "Edible Healing" by David Servan-Schreiber.

http://www.nfcr.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=746&Itemid=246
This site isn't about food, but mentions two recent studies that will hopefully go to clinical levels soon. It focuses on metastasized prostrate cancer. It a good website sponsored by the National Foundation for Cancer Research (www.NFCR.org).

Enjoy the read!

PS. Thanks for the encouragement re: surgery postponed.

bdhilton
Posts: 752
Joined: Jan 2010

Thanks Will_ great site and archive of articles...It also looks like a good charity just like America Cancer Society and others...As far as the surgery hang in there as strange as it sounds pre surgery is worse than the actual surgery for most...You are in my prayers as all the other brothers...Peace

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 1508
Joined: Nov 2010

Hi Hilton

This article can be a prove that the Mediterranean diet would be just as any other diet wouldn’t that include red wine. Those SphK1/S1P are the elixir of life. Dr. Myers commended the polyphenols and mention that it would not interfere with HT drugs and I am happy to know about that.

Good post.
VG

bdhilton
Posts: 752
Joined: Jan 2010

My wife commented about two weeks ago that perhaps I was taking the wine thing a little to far...:-) and voiced this to my oncologist who in return told her I was not drinking enough wine....My oncologist talks to me about diet not the other way around...I hope the new generation of doctors are given more class room time on using diet in the treatment of illnesses....To our health!

Swingshiftworker
Posts: 616
Joined: Mar 2010

After talking to the nutritionist last month, I've been cutting back on sodas & near beer and have been drinking a lot of green tea lately.

Bought some at the store to get the containers and then started brewing my own: 1tbsp of loose leaf green tea makes over a gallon of brew. A lot cheaper that way; just pour it into the containers (16 oz & 1 gallon) that I bought earlier.

Drink about 8 cups a day now. Only problem is that the caffeine in green tea, which is a diuretic, is probably also contributing to my urinary frequency problem. You can't win.

Know that the polyphenols in red wine are supposed to be good for you, but that's also offset by the inflammatory effects of alcohol on the urinary tract and liver and I think you've got to drink a lot of wine in order to benefit from the phenols.

One of my urologists advised me to cut out alcohol entirely because he associated w/the urinary frequency problem. This led to me drink near beer but I've even cut back on that now.

So, I don't think I'll be changing the amount of red or other wine that I'm drinking, which is usually only 1-2 glasses a week.

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 1508
Joined: Nov 2010

Swing

1-2 glasses a week would only substitute your cough syrup. My wife and I drink 1.5 bottles a day. The volume increases when partying.
I like “full-body”, (13.5 - 14%vol) red wines, but you could try lighter wines (10.5 - 11%vol) such as the “clarinets” which are excellent with all type of meals, and still benefit from the same amount of polyphenols.
White wines are done by removing the “skin” of the grapes therefore losing its great medicinal benefit. They tend to be either sweet or dry being the later high in alcohol.

I learn in Japan that green tea should include pierces of stalk which have effects countering the caffeine content (expensive ones have less stalk). The mixture also is said to protect tooth decay (double punch medicine). The temperature of water (boiling water = 100C) should also be checked otherwise all those benefits are gone. It should be within 65 to 70C (150-160F) and only steeped for 2 to 3 minutes.

A toast of goodwill for you with my red-wine.
VGama

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YTW
Posts: 62
Joined: Apr 2010

My first PSA test (5.5) was 15 years ago and after watching for two years had my 1st biopsy
which was negative. I started drinking green tea and for the next 5 or 6 years the PSA flucutated between 4 and 5 but but then rose to almost 7. Second biopsy was negative. My
uro told me at that time that he was sure that I had PCa but couldnt treat me until he found it via biopsy. He also told me to keep drink the tea. Bottom line, last March, my PSA went to 9.8 and the biopsy confirmed a stage T1c PCa. All scans were clear. I underwent Cyberknife last August and continue to drink green tea. One thing that I was told by my R.O. was to stop taking any anti-oxident supplements while undergoing the radiation. His reason was that anti-oxidents try to keep cells from dying and do the same for the cancer cells that the radiation is trying to destroy. He recommended that I refrain from anti-oxidents for at least 30 days after my final treatment. I waited 90 days and now back on green tea and my vitamins. I live near a big city and buy my green tea from a Chineese grocery. I buy a 5 lb. bag of loose tea for about $9.00 and make it in an eight cup coffee maker. Hope this info helps. (Age is 71)

Jimmy/Cleveland

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 1508
Joined: Nov 2010

Jimmy

Your info helps a lot and so does your narration of events. I hope for your recovery and continuous excellent progress.
Your doctor’s thoughts about the effect of anti-oxidants by “…trying to keep cells from dying and do the same for the cancer cells that the radiation is trying to destroy…” may as well justify your chronology of biopsies. The worrisome will be if such “try” is behind the reason for cancer cells survival, when initially they are attacked by our immune system. It is like to say that if the genetic material of cancer cells existed since we were born (hereditary theory), anything that promotes survival is a “no no” to follow.

Are we promoting cancer growth when taking supplements?

I wish you the best.
Vgama

Beau2
Posts: 228
Joined: Sep 2010

In his book, "Promoting Wellness, for Prosatae Cancer Patients", Dr. Moyad makes the case that a guy with PCa can take too much "multi-vitamin". A partial extract follows:

..... "It is possible that higher doses of these pills may feed prostate tumors. The real problem is that many men's multivitamin's contain too high a concentration of antioxidants. Taking a women's multivitamin without iron or simply a children's multivitamin several times a week, not to exceed one multivitamin pill a day, makes sense."....

bdhilton
Posts: 752
Joined: Jan 2010

Interesting...My surgeon recommend the same thing-"take a cheap multi vitamin..." and I do (buy it from Costco) but I also take a few other vitamins (like D3, fish oil, and a few others) as recommended to me…My goal is to reduce most supplements by proper diet…

Swingshiftworker
Posts: 616
Joined: Mar 2010

FWIW, my nutritionist told me to stop taking multi-vitamins w/iron in it because iron is associated w/cancer growth. So, that's what I did.

She also said to cut out the extra calcium pills, which is also associated w/cancer growth, and to keep taking fish oil. Did that too.

bdhilton
Posts: 752
Joined: Jan 2010

Swing...I have the same understanding as you...I limit my intact of calcium supplements (I take about 200mg that is in my cheap multi vitamin but eat no dairy) and take nothing with iron (I eat plenty of beans)....

YTW's picture
YTW
Posts: 62
Joined: Apr 2010

Vgamma:

My mother died of breast cancer (spread to bones) at age 62. My dad smoked for about 25 years but quit on his 50th birthday. He was diagnosed with lung cancer at age 90 but did nothing about it and died at age 92. Go figure...My family doctor's dad died of PCa. Both he and my uro are of the same opinion and that is that everyone has cancer (rogue cells)but that their immune systems keep the Ca in check. Just their opinions which they
claim that they cannot prove. I started taking vitamin supplements C,E and multi just after my mom died. I was 28 years old at the time. I am not advising anyone to do this, just telling you what I did. BUT...I would deffinately NOT recommend taking anti-oxident
supplements while undergoing active treatment fot PCa. as I stated in my original post.

Jimmy/Cleveland

YTW's picture
YTW
Posts: 62
Joined: Apr 2010

Vgamma:

My mother died of breast cancer (spread to bones) at age 62. My dad smoked for about 25 years but quit on his 50th birthday. He was diagnosed with lung cancer at age 90 but did nothing about it and died at age 92. Go figure...My family doctor's dad died of PCa. Both he and my uro are of the same opinion and that is that everyone has cancer (rogue cells)but that their immune systems keep the Ca in check. Just their opinions which they
claim that they cannot prove. I started taking vitamin supplements C,E and multi just after my mom died. I was 28 years old at the time. I am not advising anyone to do this, just telling you what I did. BUT...I would deffinately NOT recommend taking anti-oxident
supplements while undergoing active treatment fot PCa. as I stated in my original post.

Jimmy/Cleveland

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 1508
Joined: Nov 2010

Jimmy

It is hard to confirm or negate that the supplements you took since yours 28th were the culprit behind your PCa case. I was never a “fan” of supplements myself until diagnosed with PCa, and start taking on/off vitamin E and Selenium, recommended by my oncologist at JH. Maybe one should follow what one believes more.

Your post let me curious about this theme and I tried to find evident examples related to cancer and supplements, and found that the matter is controversial.
In one article about antioxidants in treatments, it was explained in a whole, “The Bad News About Antioxidants” and “The Good News About Antioxidants”, both implying to be bad “with it” and bad “without it”.
At conclusions it says; “….In the end, though, it is unlikely that any cancer patient will be discouraged from eating foods that are rich in antioxidants; indeed, this may be the best source of these nutrients for any individual.”

I tend to believe in this citation (and so do our ancestors). I think that a balanced diet “replaces” very well any supplement and it will surely lead to better results from treatments. But one should not disregard those findings regarding produces that can hold the cancer, as recently indicated in a trial in regards to the pomes.

Sorry to hear about your mam and dad. As much time as it has passed it always hurts.

VGama

bdhilton
Posts: 752
Joined: Jan 2010

Amen to the balance diet etc…As some of you already know my ultimate goal is to limit most vitamins and supplements through diet (in my case primarily Mediterranean diet, no dairy, no red meat, fish….)

What I get out of all of this is that we should eat better quality food (less fat, less red meat, less salt, less sugar, less alcohol and more fruit, veggies, fish, nuts, whole grains, fiber and antioxidants) and exercise more for improved health, but I have found some interesting details.

Generally, a "healthy" diet is recommended for cancer patients in order to: 1) reduce the risk of chronic disease, 2) help to inhibit cancer growth, 3) enhance the immune system, 4) increase energy levels and 4) to facilitate recovery from cancer treatment.
The following were specifically recommended for a "Cancer Protective Diet" from UCSF:

1) 8-10 "colorful" fruit & veggie servings daily
2) 30-40 gms of fiber daily from beans/legumes & whole grains
3) Limit consumption of processed and refined foods (eg., white rice & bread)
4) Limit meat & daily products; avoid processed meats ( I eat wild cold water fish only)
5) Increase healthy fats (omega 3 fatty acids) from cold water fish, nuts, etc.)
6) Drink 1-4 cups of green tea daily (I also drink 8oz of Pomegranate juice the last 1.5 years)
7) Avoid or limit alcohol consumption (I drink 2-3 glass of wine frequently per instructions from oncologist)
8) Get tested for Vitamin D and take supplement as needed (up to 1-2gm daily)
9) Increase daily intake of antioxidant rich foods, which include lycopene, selenium & Vitamin E.
10) And, lastly, exercise at least 30-60 mins daily to achieve an acceptable BMI. (I exercise 90-120 minutes a day 5x week)
No real surprises here and no evidence that following these suggestions will "cure" or prevent reoccurrence of your cancer. However, it certainly can't hurt you and will definitely make you a healthier person.
So, there's no reason not to follow this diet, provided you can actually do all of the things suggested, which is really the question. Most people can't, even if they want to and I don't think I can either but I'll do what I can to eat as healthfully as I can and that's all any of us can expect to do, regardless of its effect on your cancer.

Best to all

BOBfromNJ
Posts: 32
Joined: Feb 2011

Thanks. Very well written. I know I have tried to do most of what's on the list but at times it is difficult. You are right in trying to do the best you can. I think anything you can do to help yourself is only going to improve things. Lets hear it for the red wine! In moderation of course.

Take care,
Bob

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