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PSA 1524, Decision is to Treat Myself the Holistic Way.. I will regularily update my progress for everyones reference.. UPDATED

twowheelsonly
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2010

Hello everybody...

In early 2004 I went to my doctor for my annual checkup, my Dr. did a blood test for PSA and my first up the butt examination, the blood test revealed I had an elevated PSA of 43 and he felt some irregularity’s on my prostate.. I was 53 years old then, when my doctor gave me the scary news, I was very shocked, emotional and scared those first few weeks.. I tried to find anyone who had a PSA of 40 and found no info just if you were over +4.0 you could be in serious trouble with PC.. My doctor referred me that same day to meet with a Urologist, I could not see him for 6 weeks! before I could see the Urologist.. My wife and I seeked as much information on PC as possible to see what options were available.. we immediately started a regime of natural vitamins and homeopathic medicine and saw a Holistic doctor who assisted me in my support of dealing with the news.. it was not a Happy time to say the least, I was scared and so was my wife..

Finally, after 6 weeks I was able to meet my urologist and I was amazed how big the office was over 40 chairs in the waiting area.. I thought this is weird, there is no one here except me and my wife and we had to wait 6 grueling weeks without being able to meet my expert Urologist doctor & I am probably dying of CANCER.. When I got to the office I had to fill out pages and pages of info and then we sat down to meet the Urologist. In the office where we were sat right in front of me, was the latest edition of Fortune magazine,on the front page "Why We're Losing The War On Cancer" , the writer had a reviewed all of the progress made by the pharma & the medical profession over the last 50 years.. The article stated that despite over 200 billions of $ being spent on research there was very little progress in finding a cure.. my own conclusion from the article was, the medical industry and pharma had no reason to find a cure as it was their biggest source of income in treating cancer patients, billions of $ had been given in grants paid by the government to the profession starting back in 1950.. the conclusion was there was no cure or promising outlook for anyone dealing with cancer..I actually had enough time to read the whole article with my wife before we were finally called into meet the doctor...I also thought is this a message from God! Seemed to me that a Urologist would not want that magazine laying around for his customers to see.. pretty impersonal and certainly not sensitive.. but it certainly caught our attention!

Next I meet the doctor.. he quickly looked at my chart and PSA and stated I needed to have a biopsy immediately to see what cancer had developed in my prostate, after reading so many negative reviews from men who had biopsy’s I was not too eager to have a biopsy and risk having any C cells getting loose in my body.. I asked him if I had PC what could he do for me and he stated that based on my PSA the cancer would have metastasized & there would be basically nothing that he could do to save me as the cancer would have already spread.. Needless to say we left and I told my wife that if anybody was going to treat me it would never be him..

All along I have always felt healthy and kind of forgot about my prostate, needless to say I kind of dropped the ball and started living my life like I did before I found out I had a high PSA, Further PSA test was 72 and then in Dec 2008 my PSA test was 254, my doctor did not review that particular test & never called me in for a meeting so I thought the test was the same score as before.. anyway, I got sick a few weeks ago and had cramps for 4 days.. couldn't sleep and decided I better go to the Dr who ordered a CT scan and the radiologist reported my prostate was about 2.5 times bigger & contained multiple cystic areas and I had a large central area of necrosis with my left Lymph and a left small renal cyst in my left kidney & a probale tiny right renal cyst, everything else was as the radiologist stated were unremarkable, meaning normal..

Then my latest PSA test came back it was 1524.. by now I was feeling much better about 1 week after being sick with my cramps & my doctor stated he suspected I had a acute inflamatory such as diverticulitis in my colon which caused my cramping problem.. My doctor was very concerned about my PSA and I told him I was experiencing a restricted urine stream and waking up several times in the night feeling a burning sensation & the need to pee but not much came out.. I asked him what was the highest PSA he ever saw and he told me it was me back in 2004 when I my PSA was 43..

My doctor referred me to another urologist which I met a couple of weeks ago and we discussed my condition.. he was much nicer and seemed very concerned with my condition an offered all kinds of treatments that could be used to treat me but he could do nothing unless I agreed to a biopsy. I asked him if there was anything he cold do that was not invasive or for any treatment that would help shrink my prostate, he advised that my insurance would not approve any other treatments until they knew I had cancer.. he also warned me that I could wake up one day and be crippled from cancer attacking my spine.. I asked him if I did have cancer and he said he thought I did but without the biopsy he COULD NOT say for sure.. he also stated several times he was surprised how healthy I looked..I did FIND OUT he had a patient who had a PSA of over 3800 and that was in 1999 and the patient was STILL ALIVE.. I thought wow see there is hope for me too..

I had been back to my holistic doctor who is an MD with all my tests and CT Scan report and we started some a regiment of high quality supplemental vitamins and homeopathic medicine to support me for treating my overall health based on my test results, My Dr. also did a Bio-Terrain Urinalysis test... He advised me to only take 5 days of the ant-biotics that my GP had issued and gave me a treatment to replace the good bacteria that anti-biotics remove from your body.. He did want me to stay on Avodart which is supposed to shrink the prostste.. The holistic program is not covered by my insurance and this is not going to be cheap but at least it's all natural & as my wife says I am worth it,

I am now only eating totally all organic foods, no meats, chicken or fish at all and no dairy products, sugar, processed foods, breads or coffee, well I still have 1 cup in the morning but thats all.. no going out for dinner which I miss, I am drinking 10 glasses of pure water, not out of a tap, I also try go to bed now by 10 pm and usually get up around 6 am.. when I started this new diet I always felt hungry but now I seem to be adjusting to my new diet & have noticed that my sleeping through the night is back to normal and I now get up to pee usually only once or twice a night and I actually have to pee now.. burning sensation is gone.. I have also cut back on working so much as I don't need the stress, more time to be a human being instead of a human doing.. probably ride my motorcycle more now which always makes me feel good... I know I may have a long way to go and I am reading some healing books ,2 great books I have read are "Cancer is not a disease it is a survival mechanism" and "How to cure almost any cancer for $5.15 a day",they are avaiable on Amazon, the authors provide great information about what cancer is, and how you can help yourself.. I plan to share my progress in this post with anyone who is interested in my progress..

I am sharing my experience because I have made a decision to go holistic and heal my own body if I can and if not I will obviously die from this terrible problem... If I had followed my Urologists advise in 2004 I am not sure if I would be any better off than I am now, I kind of feel like I would have been worse off based on what I have read on the forum although I don't really know.. I have been so lucky to not feel sick for the past six years.. I feel a responsibility to share my experience with anyone who has C that there is an alternative to treating themselves by changing their life style and using the alternatives to what is being offered by the medical establishment and big Pharma.. I am not against them I just don't believe they have my best interest at heart or a cure that is going to offer me a positive outcome based on my research.. believe me I am hoping and praying for everyone no matter what treatment they chose to get better and live long and happy lifes....

Wish you all lots of hope and happiness & god love us all..

Stewart
The 2 links below review the progress made in curing cancer..they were written in 2004 but give one some caution when evaluating the various treatments given..
The Fortune Article link is below:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2004/03/22/365076/index.htm

Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics in the War on Cancer
http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Lcancerstatistics.htm

UPDATE 052511 UPDATE 052511 UPDATE 052511

UPDATE 052511 UPDATE 052511 UPDATE 052511

UPDATE 052511 UPDATE 052511 UPDATE 052511

Hello Everybody

Well I got some stuff to report and as I stated earlier I would when I had something meaningful to write. This has been a difficult period in my life as I know it is for everyone else dealing with the illness.

Several weeks ago I started to experience a burning sensation in my left thigh when I was sitting down, the burning sensation in my leg led me to believe I had twisted my back and I never gave it much thought till the pain kept increasing each week. I visited with my GP about 10 weeks ago and he decided I needed a CT Bone Scan,

He ordered a complete blood work and the results from my blood tests were great. My PSA unfortunately has risen from1528 to 1954 in the past 6 months, at least it did not triple like it did the previous 18 months, everything else in my blood work came back in the normal range and in most cases it was better than normal. I really believe this is due to my change in diet and life changing things I have been doing since I found out my PSA was 1554 about 8 months ago, also I have noticed my thoughts are clearer, memory is better and I have even been able to see better.

My doctor he also put me on Hydroconde 4X a day for pain in my leg and then ordered a nuclear CT Scan, this scan showed a couple of suspect hot spots occurred in my L2 and T8 on my spine.

The Hydrocodone was effective initially in treating the pain, but after a couple of weeks the pain to my leg returned sooner and sooner after each pill so he increased the dosage from 4 times a day to 6 again.. The pain medication was then changed again as my leg and lower back were constantly aching and Oxicotine 30mg as ordered to be taken 2 X per day with the Hydrocodone.

My doctor then ordered a MRI and the results showed a lesion on my L2 causing an impingement on my spinal column, the impingement is to ½ of my spinal cord at the L2 area. The radiologist who did my biopsy believed this was a metastasis of my prostate & he commented that I had several smaller lesions on my spinal column from L2 to T8 areas normal for metastasis cancer. I then had a biopsy on L2 area and the results were positive for MC, the tumor has been pressing against my spinal cord and based on the increasing pain since this started it is getting worse not better.

I was then referred to an Oncologist who reviewed my radiologist reports and told me I needed to immediately have radiation treatment on my L2 area to stop the cancer from continuing to press into my spinal cord, his fear was it could cause paralysis. I was referred by him to have radiation treatments started as soon as possible, today was my first radiation treatment and I got to say “it was a little intimidating to say the least, not that the staff isn’t nice, but all the tests and equipment are a little intimidating, at least it was for me”. I have 13 more treatments to go so at least I got the first one out of the way.

I have been starting another medication which is a steroid and I will see my Oncologist in a couple of weeks for Hormonal treatment, he is going to use a drug called Casodex, my understanding is this drug will stop the testosterone that is feeding my C. If this drug is successful it will starve my cancer to my spine and the cells will stop duplicating. Basically they will starve to death and die, the oncologist is optimistic as he has had many patients that he has successfully treated. I am hopeful and cautiously optimistic that this treatment could work for me. I read in some cancer book that if this treatment does not keep the PSA knocked down that the cancer will continue to grow aggressively and there are few options one can count on the keep the illness in remission.

On another note, I lost a dear friend and mentor last Sunday to PC, his nake was George Lemarquand, he dedicated his life to serving people as an ambluance driver, first aid instructor and he always had kind words for people, he fought his battles bravely and finally subcombed to his awful illness, I found out about my High PSA 40 in 2004 at the same time he found out he has PC, he took his road using all the tricks and wonders of medicine and eventually lost his battle as they ran out of tricks, he sufferred a lot near the end and I am sad he is gone but glad he is not suffering anymore.

Although I am struggling with my illness I will continue my holistic approach to nurishing my body with the best food and natural cures to help my body as much as it can, I will used what my doctor recommends to assist me in the war my body is fighting, my holistic approach may not be the total solution but I believe it helps my body be stronger with my battle against my illness.

That’s it for today, I hope everyone lots of love, pain free days and the best of health and a mostly Happy and Long Life. Thanks for listening I feel like your all my brothers, Till I post again…

Stewart

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1293
Joined: Apr 2009

I wonder if your intention for this thread is simply to let us know of your progress, or are you open for inputs?

By the way there is a site.......I think that it's called Yama where men post their progress on a regular basis mainly to inform others........I'm not sure that I mentioned the correct site but an other poster will know......you may wish to post there.

twowheelsonly
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2010

I really wanted to post on this forum since most the members of this forum have chosen the have the AMA treat their condition, after I read what most of us are going through and considering AMA's treatments, my options is to take the natural path... for anyone who is new to elevated PSA I hope they will realize they have time to look at all the possible options before deciding on what can be done to save their life... if someone has some knowledge of something that is working I would love to hear their advise..

I have been dealing with this PC crap hanging over my head for 6 years always kind of wondering if I had it or not, would I live long or go fast.. would I be able to heal myself, guess we will find out.. best of luck to you on your journey! I just think any one new to PC may see that they have a choice & not to rush without exploring their choices and I think that is a good thing..
Stewart

2ndBase's picture
2ndBase
Posts: 220
Joined: Mar 2004

Thank you for your posting. It goes to show that life with cancer, once it has spread, can be good without accepting every treatment the medical community deems neccessary. I am in hospice care and still working and playing golf daily. I am not going out hooked up to some machine with a tube shoved up my arm. I was given a 50% chance to live 2 years in 2004 and have had no treatment since then. I laughed when they gave me 6 months to live back in April this year. Its not going to happen that soon. I fully expect to live another couple years and live well. Wishing you all the best.

twowheelsonly
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2010

Hello 2ndBase
I hope you will get the book: How to cure almost any cancer for $5.15 a day, you can get it from Amazon, hopefully it will give you even more hope... Please read about a German scientist Mrs. Budwig, she studied cancer in the early 1900's for over 50 years primarily with terminally ill patients that the medical establishment had written off, she saved so many of these terminally ill patients, she was not well liked by the medical community after she announced she had a low cost cure for cancer & after all her studies she concluded & release a report to the medical community that Chemo and Radiation was a death sentence for patience, she was nominated for 7 Nobel Peace Prizes, please read the following link about her protocol,
http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer/Budwig.html
it is a truly remarkable story, you will need to copy and paste the link above to view it,
Wishing you much success.. Quality of life is everything.. Wishing you all the best too..
Stewart

buzzz
Posts: 26
Joined: Aug 2010

10 glasses of water a day will wash all the electrolites out of you, not good.

Wishing you all - all the best.

Kentr
Posts: 111
Joined: May 2009

Take a look at the WikipediA info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johanna_Budwig BEFORE jumping into an alternative treatment protocal. So much stuff on the internet and elsewhere is BS.

Budwig was NOT nominated for 7 Nobel Peace Prizes, the list of nominee's is NOT published and therein lies the first "clue" that the entire story is suspect at best.

As noted on the referenced cancertutor website http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer/Budwig.html

"Only Three of Dr Budwig’s books have been translated from German to English at this time. For more information on where to purchase Dr Budwig’s books check out the websites below. It was very difficult to find the newly released third book."

It would seem to me that if this treatment were SO effective a LOT more than three books would have been translated by now.

On a more positive note check out the American Cancer Society link http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/TreatmentsandSideEffects/ComplementaryandAlternativeMedicine/HerbsVitaminsandMinerals/flaxseed?sitearea=ETO which states in part:

"Only recently has there been some clinical evidence suggesting that flaxseed supplements, along with a diet low in fat, may be useful in men with early-stage prostate cancer. Controlled clinical studies are needed to determine its usefulness in preventing or treating cancer in humans."

"There have been some small studies of the effects of flaxseed in humans. A small study of 15 men found that a low-fat diet supplemented with flaxseed lowered their blood prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels and slowed the growth of benign prostate cells, suggesting that it might be useful in reducing risk of prostate cancer. Another study of 25 men with prostate cancer found that a low-fat diet along with ground flaxseed reduced serum testosterone, slowed the growth rate of cancer cells, and increased the death rate of cancer cells."

Also noted at this site: "The immature pods of flaxseed are poisonous and should never be used."

Again, not trying to be a "spoil sport" just saying do your research because not all that glitters is gold.

My very best to everyone of my brothers as we travel this road together.

twowheelsonly
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2010

Kentr

Obviously you did not spend much time researching holistic healing.. please read the Discussion side of the Budwig Post on Wikipedia which shows there has been a lot of information about her work edited out by the editor,, it is much more informative than the page you read, Anyone can contribute to Wikapedia, I can if I want to and it will be recorded, edited then posted if it seems to be valid, so If I post there does that make me an expert source?,time will clarify the facts of what is posted on their site, I think it is a wonderful place to look things up but it is too new to be totally accurate since it is a public forum just like this is..

Information about other therapies have not been available except in book form until the internet was avaiable and basically when google started making information avaiable, google is only been here for less than 5 years and a lot of people over 60 do not use the internet for their research.. I do not have only one treatment for treating my PC, it is several things I am doing to fight it, in reference the the Budwig protocall there is no denying that she spent her life researching terminally ill cancer patience, she developed a protocall and had success with it with terminally ill patience.. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if she was successful that Pharma and the medical establishment would suffer huge financial losses if this protocall was adapted,perhaps that is why they sued her for malpractise to discredit her work? obviously if she had a protocall that worked this would not be good for their medical business at the time.. The FDA controls approvals of all our drugs here and are all the drugs good? I don't think so based on how many drugs are pulled off the market for other major side effects.. yet they were approved and tested, or at least thats the claim..

The way I see it anyone who is trusting just their doctor for treating their PC is betting all their cards on one person.. fact is today 1 out of 2 men will now die from cancer.. based on that fact and this is a fact the medical profession is not winning the battle but losing it...obviously, I question the current methods of treatment offered by big Pharma & the AMA.. from what I have read on this forum it is unfortunate but they don't have a great track record so far..

If you read the article from Fortune magazine there is something seriously flawed in their treatment as well.. I am doing multiple things to fight my PC and I am not going to bet my life on one person.. as I stated, I have made a choice just like you have.. time will tell if I am right or wrong.. I am betting on my body to fight this.. I believe in it as it has served me well for the last 60 years.. I hope I am right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.. I also hope what ever treatment you decide on will work for you!

In regards to water drinking 8 to 10 glasses of water is what a person needs daily to balance their body, it cleans their system and nurishes their body,brain and immunity system, a balanced diet will give you what you need as the body knows what you need and will generate what is required to provide good health.. treating cancer is NOT about removing a cancer, taking chemo and getting radiated.. if a person does not support their body properly then the cancer will spread and eventally your doomed.. Based on my meeting with my Urologist I am doomed! so its his way or no way, so what do I have to lose by not subjecting my body to what they offer.. again everyone, I am only sharing what I am doing for my treatment,

I have made my decision for now on my path, I plan to monitor myself and I will adjust my treatments as I see the results, please understand this is my decision just like it is your decision on what you do, I respect that and I hope you will do the same for me..

If I am a fool then so be it.. I am betting I am not... Bless you all for a long life C free..

Stewart

2ndBase's picture
2ndBase
Posts: 220
Joined: Mar 2004

Again, I commend you for having the strength to battle this cancer on your own terms. My hospice care is excellent and I continue to have hope for more and more time. The amount of morphine it takes to subside the pain is unbelievable but at least it works. I hope you have little pain and continue to enjoy every day. All the best.

Kongo's picture
Kongo
Posts: 1167
Joined: Mar 2010

Thank you for an interesting post. I agree with much of what you have said anecdotally but overall I take strong exception to your conclusions and overarching premise that your choice of holistic treatment alone is a prudent course of action for the condition you describe. I do applaud your self advocacy in this and agree that there is much to be wary of from the medical community and pharmaceutical industry that too often seems to be motivated out of financial gain. I also agree that a complementary diet that eliminates or significantly reduces red meat, sugars, and dairy plays a major role in preventing and even reversing the spread of cancer.

On the other hand, from what you described, your present position seems to have evolved from some unfortunate experiences with a few doctors and from that you have made some sweeping generalizations that appear to me to be unwarranted. A few articles from Fortune Magazine does not trump the overwhelming scientific body of evidence that significant improvements have been made in treating the survival rate and quality of life for those suffering from prostate cancer. In fact, just the opposite is true. While 1 in 6 men in Western Nations will be diagnosed with prostate cancer, only about 1 in 35 will die from it. That is a tremendous improvement from a generation ago. Today most men who are diagnosed with prostate cancer can expect to enjoy a long and fruitful life after their diagnosis. This is possible because of the widespread use of the PSA test and subsequent biopsy procedures that have enabled early detection and treatment which saves thousands and thousands of men each year from an eventual painful and debilitating death from prostate cancer.

Frankly, I share your suspicion of the transrectal biopsy procedure and its potential to spread cancer. Had I known then what I know today I would have insisted on a needle biopsy via the perineum which has much less chance of spreading stray cancer cells. However, from what you have described with your extremely high PSA which very strongly suggests that the cancer has escaped the prostate gland, it really doesn’t make any difference whether a few more cells get out or not. While there are many things that can cause an elevated PSA, including the benign conditions you described with cysts and so forth, I have never read of a PSA so high that was caused solely by only an enlarged prostate or other inflammation. While it is certainly likely that you do indeed have prostate cancer, having the biopsy will formalize the diagnosis and open up treatment options that are otherwise unavailable to you without the surety obtained from a biopsy reading.

Many men have posted on this forum who have had extremely high PSA readings and took treatment that significantly reduced their symptoms and likely extended the amount and quality of their life through drug regimens, surgery, and radiation just to name a few. I personally believe that this treatment taken in conjunction with a holistic approach could be quite successful. While there may be some anecdotal instances of men who have been “cured” of cancer with holistic methods or “$5.95 a day” schemes, there is simply no evidence that this alone is a viable approach to treating a potentially advanced stage of prostate cancer which your PSA scores suggest.

We all have to make tough decisions when we are each faced with our diagnosis. Often those professionals who give us the news are not very good at helping us in the process. But we do not have to settle for an appointment six weeks out…we can go to another doctor. In the first three weeks after my diagnosis I consulted with 6 doctors and if one had a full schedule I went to another. If one doctor gave me a vibration that he wasn’t right for me, I left immediately and found another. We can’t blame the doctors completely. And we shouldn’t throw out the potential benefits of the billions of dollars spent on research and the development of new treatment techniques just because we are suspicious of the medical community or because of a single author writing in a financial magazine questioning where all the money is going.

I respect your decisions, Stewart, and hope your path leads you to success. I hope you continue to research your options and continue to seek out physicians who could offer you additional options beyond what you seem to have already settled on. And I encourage you to reconsider that biopsy if it will open up options for treatment that are now closed to you.

Best to you and to all men who struggle with this disease.

buzzz
Posts: 26
Joined: Aug 2010

Outcomes from a “watchful waiting” protocol for localized prostate cancer
Posted on October 14, 2010

A new study reports on retrospective analysis of data from a series of 218 patients diagnosed between 1991 and 2005 with localized prostate cancer and who were managed using a “watchful waiting” (as opposed to an active surveillance) strategy at the Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH).

According to Coen et al. these patients were followed using PSA monitoring and digital rectal examinations (DREs).

The top-line results of this study are as follows:

Average (median) age of patients at diagnosis was 71 years.
Average (median) PSA at diagnosis was 5.4 ng/ml.
Gleason scores at diagnosis were
Gleason 6 in 95 percent of patients
Gleason 7 in 4 percent of patients
Gleason 8 in 1 percent of patients
Clinical stages at diagnosis were
T1a,b in 6 percent of patients
T1c in 84 percent of patients
T2 in 10 percent of patients
Average (median) follow-up was 6.3 years.
Overall survival was 79 percent at 10 years.
Prostate cancer-specific survival was 100 percent at 10 years.
Re-biopsies were performed in 95/218 patients.
5 percent of patients showed evident, distant metastasis.
15 percent of patients received treatment with salvage androgen deprivation therapy.
70 percent of patients were free of any clinical intervention.
15 percent of patients had a PSA doubling time of ≤ 3 years.
16 percent of patients had a PSA velocity of ≥ 2 ng/ml/yr
Among the 95 patients who received a follow-up biopsy
25 percent showed an increase in their Gleason score (grade progression).
33 percent showed an increase in the percentage of positive biopsy cores (volume progression).
The authors conclude that in a carefully selected series of patients, generally with low risk prostate cancer, watchful waiting appears to have been associated with low rates of clinical intervention and cancer progression. They further conclude that PSA doubling time and volume progression were the important triggers for clinical intervention, and state that these triggers will be incorporated into MGH’s current active surveillance protocol. (In that context, it is interesting to note the data from the Sunnybrook group, reported just the other day, suggesting that PSA doubling time is not necessarily a particularly good trigger for clinical intervention in patients on active surveillance!)

What is interesting about this paper is that, even under a much less structured “watchful waiting” protocol dating back into the early 1990s, some 70 percent of the carefully selected patients never required any form of intervention, that prostate cancer-specific mortality did not occur, and that only 5 percent of the patients ever showed evidence of metastatic prostate cancer. These data further substantiate the clinical utility of careful monitoring as opposed to active treatment for carefully selected patients known to have relatively low-risk prostate cancer — and particularly for such patients with an otherwise limited life expectancy.

http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/2010/ ... te-cancer/

Susiebelle
Posts: 15
Joined: Nov 2009

I want to make sure I am reading you right. You have NOT had a biopsy, and you do not know the stage of your cancer, if you even have cancer right? But you had a PSA over 1500?

I guess what I don't understand is your resistance to having the biopsy. If you have a PSA over 1500, I am pretty sure that a few cancer cells that MIGHT be released during the biopsy won't matter in the overall picture.

My husband had his lymph node biopsied. Not his prostate. It was not too invasive and the biopsy was CT guided. It took about ten minutes. He was stage IV.

If you find the holistic approach works then I say go for it. We saw Michael Brauman of the Pine Street Clinic for our holistic guidance. He is world reknown for his knowledge and mixing the western medicine with the eastern medicine. It was quite expensive to be sure, but we gave it everything we had. In the end however, it changed nothing.

We maintain alot of the organic nutrition, and I bake almost everything my husband eats at home. He remains well hydrated, and we are probably eating the most healthy diets of our lives. We also realize though, that he needed more aggressive treatment for his very aggressive cancer.

I guess I would feel better if you had a biopsy and knew whether or not your cancer was a slow growing or more aggressive one. And if you knew your stage. But, that is just me. You seem fine with your own choices, and I wish you all the luck in the world with it. Keeping us posted on your progress is a very good idea. I would like to keep up with how things go for you. Are you keeping a journal? I think that would be pretty awesome to keep this all written down somewhere, where it could be referred to.

Susiebelle

twowheelsonly
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2010

Thank you for your post, I will check out with my doctor about a biopsy for my lymph, this would answer if it has spread and how aggressive the cancer is.. this was not discussed with my Urologist or even suggested.. I do know I am not interested in having up to 30 biopsy's on my prostate which is what the Urolist recommended..

I actually have 3 doctors that are coordinating my treatments..they will reveiw my progress, I will be checking my progress monthly with them and still plan to have my PSA test done every 30 to 45 days for the next few months to see if the PSA is still climbing, holding or hopefully declining.. I am decided to treat myself as if I have aggressive cancer cause I believe that eventually that is what all cancer becomes if not treated properly.

My doctors are optomistic that based my overall physical condition and mental state they are confident of me being able to recover from my problems.. I do understand that there could be no effective treatment other than what is being offered to me by the AMA.. but I am not convinced that I would enjoy a better life or they could really extend my life anymore based on their current protcalls.. as I stated before, I feel blessed to have lived the last 6 years when my PSA was 43 with no effects of anything except feeling pretty good.. right now after 1 month of treatment and life change I feel even better, I have good energy, sleeping much better, eating better, my urinary issues I was experiencing a few weeks ago have subsided, and I am optomistic the reason is my immunity system is quickly recoverying and I think this is because it has not been weakened by chemical drugs and radiation which is the normal treatment for PC..

Thank you for caring and taking interest, it is mutual.. I know that everyone here cares about each other cause we are all kind of kindred spirits.. so I hope everybody licks this problem and lives a happy and healthy life.. Take care everbody!!!

Stewart

twowheelsonly
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2010

Thank you for all the information you posted.. you are right that if your PSA is caught early and treatment is successful you are very likely to have a positive result and that is a very good thing.. but if you have advanced PC then the odds are not 1 in 35 but rather less than 50% of men who are treated over 5 years will have their cancer return and in 10 years the odds are over 75% it will return which then you can go for further treatments of what is offered.. the fact that CANCER not just PC will effect 1 in 2 men in their lifetime and 3 in 5 women will too.. not very good outlook, cancer is now the number 1 killer of man in Western society.. so why in a 3rd world country is this not the same.. must be due to envoirnmental causes, food, water, etc.. Simply put we all need to know how to protect ourselfs and family from the ravages of C, taking responsability for our won well being is to change the habits we were accustom to and changing to support our overall health.. This will help evryone live a healthier life and allow our body to protect us from future problems..

As I stated I will monitor my progress therough my Medical doctor and my holistic care and adjust it accordingly.. I will also post this so others can see what has happened to me. I really appreciate your interest & advise and know I wish you much success in your path and Thank you for all the posts you have made which are very informative, appreciated and helpful..

Stewart

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1293
Joined: Apr 2009

Some information for you:

I do not know your financial condition or the medical coverage that you have available, but since you did not have a biopsy, I've heard that major medical institutions would like to give an MRI with a Spectrocopy free. This will determine any lesions and whether or not the cancer, if any has spread outside the prostate capsule.

Additionally there is a new type biopsy out there that is three dimensional and guided thru ultrasound to investigate suspicious lesions, that are found in an MRI, so there are less cores taken, with more effectiveness in a biopsy.

By the way, biopsies causing cancer to spread is an urban legend, and not true....For example in the book that Kongo recommended, Invasion of the Prostate Snachers , Dr. Scholz who wrote this, referenced this subject and explained why this is not true.

twowheelsonly
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2010

Thanks for the info, do you happpen to know the source for the MRI test you wrote about? I would like to contact them..

Thanks again!

Stewart

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1293
Joined: Apr 2009

Major cancer hospitals have a Tesla 3.0 and/or a 1.5........the Tesla 3.0 gives better definition.......this is covered by Medicare which I use, I also have a secondary insurance..........now there is also a spectroscopy (which is considered investigational, and not covered by Medicare) that when used in conjuction with an MRI gives better results.

Last year, I had an MRI (Tesla 1.5) in conjunction with a Spectroscopy...the Spectroscopy cost me $900.00.

Now you can have an MRI without a spectroscopy, which will do a good job, but not excellent.

Some of the ones I know about are UCSF, UCLA, Sloan Kettering. I would be surprised if John's Hopkins did not have have one, as well as some of the other majar cancer centers.

Feel free to click my name, and read the infomation that I posted about this.

mrspjd
Posts: 688
Joined: Apr 2010

Twowheels,
Earlier this year when my husband was diagnosed, we found out about a clincial trial @ UCSF (University of California @ San Francisco--Northern California) using their Tesla 3 MRI w/Spectroscopy for PCa. If the study is still enrolling and, if you qualify, there is NO CHARGE for the endorectal MRI w/Spectroscopy. If I remember correctly, you must be at least 8 weeks post biopsy in order for any potential prostate swelling to diminish, so as not skew the test results. Unsure if they do the test without prior biopsy, so you will need to check into this if you're interested in pursuing the testing. The endorectal MRI w/Spec test is considered by many to be the gold standard for determining the extent of extra capsular extension (ECE) and lymph node involvement/metastasis. It is up to you as to whether you want to undergo such a test, so best to do your research to understand what is involved in the test so you can make the best decision that is right for you, especially given what you already know about your high PSA level. If you decide on the test & Northern California is not convenient, you might call around to major teaching universities/hospitals (Imaging/Nuclear Medicine Dept) in your area to see if they offer any clincial trials (no charge) involving the Tesla 3 for PCa, or if finance is not an issue, which institutions offer the testing.

For us, this test was a very important element in determining and confirming my husband's stage of PCa (T3). As others have respectfully suggested, it would seem a 12 core biopsy by a skilled and experienced urologist, then a pelvic CT and bone scan would be in order BEFORE/prior to the MRI w/Spectroscopy. Those preliminary tests alone might give you enough PCa staging info so that the MRI may not be necessary. Good luck and best to you in whatever path you choose.

Gleason 9
Posts: 7
Joined: Feb 2011

Hi TWO,

Like you, I decided to give the holistic approach a real shot at making a difference for me. I had done all the "cut, burn, poison" (as the detractors call it) protocols of the established medical community that I could get from award winning specialists and as part of clinical trials. My PSA would go down for a while but then pop right back again. So I started looking for the non-traditional.

I came across all sorts of dubious "alternative" cancer treatments, clinics, cures, and promises that I just tossed out right off the bat. There are some real crooks out there.

Then I came across a guy who was selling a book, but not selling anything else. He didn't want me to subscribe to a newsletter, or buy $$$ supplements and "special blends" from him. He wasn't getting kick backs from directing desperate cancer patients to some clinic. So I bought his book “Cancer-Free Your Guide to Gentle, Non-Toxic Healing" by Bill Henderson.

I took his "raw" vegan diet approach combined with some third party supplements and the Budwig protocol then added grape seed and pomegranate extract to my regimen.

Before I started the diet my PSA was doubling every four weeks. After three months of careful adherence to the diet and supplement routine my PSA was doubling every three weeks.

So, in my case the vegan, organic, flax seed, Budwig supplement approach did nothing I can point to based on my test results.

HOWEVER, I do believe the diet was of benefit in terms of giving me something "positive" to do rather than resign myself to not being able to do anything.

DESPITE my lack of results I still maintain some of the supplements, I came to like the cottage cheese/flax oil blend (adding a touch of vanilla extract and other organic flavorings)at breakfast, I've cut out 95% of my previous dairy and meat consumption.

So I say go for it. What's the worst thing that can happen?

You have a good diet.

FreddyJoe
Posts: 42
Joined: Dec 2010

I have been changing my diet to more healthy food, and I believe it not only helps the rest of my body but may be helping the cancer. Dr Oz had 3 Dr's who specalize in cancer on the show yesterday. One comment that really sticks in my mind was the one they made about family history and lifestyle. If your family has cancer in their history you may have it in your genes. The genes may load the gun, but your lifestyle pulls the trigger. Some exercise and healthy food may keep you from getting cancer. If you live on junk food, smoke, get little exercise, you stand a much better chance of getting cancer, and a few other illnesses. I am not about to give up medical treatment, but I have read a few of these books on alternative treatment and I do like the sound of some of it.

One thing we have to remember doctors and hospitals are in business and a real big expensive business. A machine like Cyberknife can cost around $1 million. They have to get a lot of use out of it to pay for the machine and make a proffit. When we look at the large number of post on this forum by people who want help in treatment options not given to them by the doctors, I wonder, is some of the lack of choice given driven by a need for profit in the medical profession.

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 1528
Joined: Nov 2010

Hi Freddy

Freddy wrote; “…..When we look at the large number of post on this forum by people who want help in treatment options not given to them by the doctors, I wonder, is some of the lack of choice given driven by a need for profit in the medical profession….”

I believe you may be touching in the wound of some guys out there. PCa is a big business and there is a huge concurrency between hospitals and doctors. Each one trying to get a portion of the “Cake”.
I become suspicious about hidden “wolves” in PCa forums I subscribe (not CSN yet) and I found that such is happening. They approach newbies in a “Little Red Riding Hood” style and wait for later strike, as purely salesmen.

There is no dough that many guys recommend treatments biased because they believe in theirs or because they have become highly acknowledgeable with other treatments through own researches. However such opinions are from “laymen” and should be indicated as such in respect to other fellas.
VG

FreddyJoe
Posts: 42
Joined: Dec 2010

Sorry, it was not my intention to touch any wounds.

In my case, and some others, I do believe very little information was given by the doctors. I had a family doctor for years, he did blood work a few times, but never gave me any idea of a PSA level. He retired and a new Dr. in the office took over my file and treatment. More test were run and then I was told the PSA was high and I should see a Urologist. I assumed part of the reason was she is a woman, but she never told me tha PSA score. The Urologist said I needed a biopsy, to this day, I have no idea what the gleason score was or how many samples were taken. Even he did not tell me what the PSA was, but I had an agressive form. I was started on the hormone injections and scheduled for the radiation. I really was told little and given no options, except that I told them since I had no symptoms I was not considering surgery. I never found out what my starting PSA was until after I started the radiation. I guess I was sort of in denial over the whole thing and really did not start questioning until about a year later. I guess I should say I am happy with my treatment as my PSA is now zero. I know I would have liked to have more facts given to me by the Doctors as I am sure some others would. I very well may have gotten the best possible treatment for my problem but I was not given any choices. For all I know, it could have been to help them pay off the new building and equipment. If I had the chance to do it all over, I am sure I would ask for a second opinion and other options.

I have done quite a bit of reading on the subject in the last few months, and I even have a copy of the book, How to cure almost any cancer for $5.15 a day.
I am sticking with the doctors for now, but I am going to put a little of some of the Holistic ideas into my life along with the treatment.

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 1528
Joined: Nov 2010

Freddy
Treatments aim into cure. Only time will be ascertaining success, but in the initial period, PSA results indicate in which direction we are leading. So far you or your doctor did the best choice with those zeros proving it.
Many guys just do not want to be involved in the “choices” process, they like to follow doctor’s advice (my wife’s principle) and many doctors think in that way if not contested. They are not the “wolves”, they don’t need to be one.

I would suggest you to have a file on your case at your disposal, with the usual collection of data, results, and facts. You can also request for a copy of the pathologist report on your biopsy. Prostate cancer is a long affair “marriage” that requires constant vigilance. My folder is thick for the ten years in the affair. Among the data in it, I have two slides of my prostate. (Memorials?)

I wish you a continuous success.
VG

Kongo's picture
Kongo
Posts: 1167
Joined: Mar 2010

Hi, Freddy,

Perhaps I've misread your post or I failed to understand your point, but in my opinion it's not the doctor's fault you weren't informed about your PSA levels or made privy to their logic that led you to radiation treatment. We all have a responsibility to be informed and educated patients and if our doctor's aren't providing us with the information we need to fully partake in treatment decisions, we need to be more aggressive in demanding better treatment and change doctors if necessary. We shouldn't stumble into treatment decisions as critical as the one we make about prostate cancer by accident. A successful outcome requires a partnership between the patient and his medical team. If men don't care to demand the information they need, I'm not sure the blame for that rests with the men and women in white coats.

Also, I don't understand what your comment about your doctor being a woman had to do with anything. Are you suggesting that because she was a woman she didn't know anything about prostate cancer?

You indicated that "to this day" you have no idea what your Gleason score was. I do hope that first thing Monday morning you contact all of the doctors involved in this process so far and get copies of your medical records. They are required by law to give them to you (but you have to ask) and they are your records. If you should ever need additonal consultations or treatment, a complete set of these records will be critical in sorting out which treatment is best for you. Be sure to get copies of the doctor's notes as well and the correspondence that referring doctors send back and forth.

Best to you,

K

FreddyJoe
Posts: 42
Joined: Dec 2010

Thanks, that was a good idea, I think I will contact the doctors and get some records. It will be a little more difficult as I am no longer living in the state where I got the original treatment.
As far as the female doctor goes, I got the impression she just would not be comfortable doing the digital exam and stuff and passed me on to the other doctor. I went back to her a few times later, and we never discussed the prostate issue.
You are probably correct I should have been more agressive in asking questions, but at the time I had never heard of a Gleason score, and some of the other stuff, I had never heard of Cyber Kinfe or DaVinci Machine, this was all new to me until about a year after the treatment started. I guess I should have been more active in my treatment.

mrspjd
Posts: 688
Joined: Apr 2010

Perhaps she (your female GP) recognized that you'd be uncomfortable, so she did what was best for you and referred you to a specialist, i.e., a urologist (male/female) that was trained and skilled in PCa & DRE (digital rectal exam)?

twowheelsonly
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2010

Hello Everyone,

Its been 6 months since I made this post and I have been on my diet and lifestyle change.. It has been a real challenge at times with food.. seems like everything at the supermarket is processed and not really that good for anyone to eat.. Organic food is expensive and not easily available this time of year. For people who cannot afford Organic you can google search local coop food and find vegetables and foods which are grown locally and most of the food is fresh and not full of bad chemicals for you. I have been feeling much better since I started my diet, more energy, sleeping better, no pain medicine, and clearer thinking..

I went to my holistic doctor 3 times since I wrote this post, he feels I have made much progress in my overall health and the supplements I was taking are now only a few a day.. my next checkup with him is in a couple of months..

Last couple of weeks I have run into a new symptom which I saw my doctor to have his diagnosis, at first I got a burning pain in my left thigh & left hip only when I was sitting but it has now progressed when I am standing, it goes away if I am moving around so that's a blessing! My doctor thinks my PC has metastised to my left hip causing this burning type pain on my left side of my thigh, he has referred me to have a Bone Scan using Nucular Medicine to see if it had spread, of course I am concerned and I am hoping it is something else.. I am now waiting for my PSA results to see if my holistic approach has had an effect on lowering my PSA so I will update this again in the next week or so.. I hope everyone is getting better and the AMA figures out how to CURE this type of cancer..

May the Blessings be with all of us and may God bless you too!

Stewart

twowheelsonly
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2010

Hello Everyone,

Its been 6 months since I made this post and I have been on my diet and lifestyle change.. It has been a real challenge at times with food.. seems like everything at the supermarket is processed and not really that good for anyone to eat.. Organic food is expensive and not easily available this time of year. For people who cannot afford Organic you can google search local coop food and find vegetables and foods which are grown locally and most of the food is fresh and not full of bad chemicals for you. I have been feeling much better since I started my diet, more energy, sleeping better, no pain medicine, and clearer thinking..

I went to my holistic doctor 3 times since I wrote this post, he feels I have made much progress in my overall health and the supplements I was taking are now only a few a day.. my next checkup with him is in a couple of months..

Last couple of weeks I have run into a new symptom which I saw my doctor to have his diagnosis, at first I got a burning pain in my left thigh & left hip only when I was sitting but it has now progressed when I am standing, it goes away if I am moving around so that's a blessing! My doctor thinks my PC has metastised to my left hip causing this burning type pain on my left side of my thigh, he has referred me to have a Bone Scan using Nucular Medicine to see if it had spread, of course I am concerned and I am hoping it is something else.. I am now waiting for my PSA results to see if my holistic approach has had an effect on lowering my PSA so I will update this again in the next week or so.. I hope everyone is getting better and the AMA figures out how to CURE this type of cancer..

May the Blessings be with all of us and may God bless you too!

Stewart

twowheelsonly
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2010

Hello Everyone,

Its been 6 months since I made this post and I have been on my diet and lifestyle change.. It has been a real challenge at times with food.. seems like everything at the supermarket is processed and not really that good for anyone to eat.. Organic food is expensive and not easily available this time of year. For people who cannot afford Organic you can google search local coop food and find vegetables and foods which are grown locally and most of the food is fresh and not full of bad chemicals for you. I have been feeling much better since I started my diet, more energy, sleeping better, no pain medicine, and clearer thinking..

I went to my holistic doctor 3 times since I wrote this post, he feels I have made much progress in my overall health and the supplements I was taking are now only a few a day.. my next checkup with him is in a couple of months..

Last couple of weeks I have run into a new symptom which I saw my doctor to have his diagnosis, at first I got a burning pain in my left thigh & left hip only when I was sitting but it has now progressed when I am standing, it goes away if I am moving around so that's a blessing! My doctor thinks my PC has metastised to my left hip causing this burning type pain on my left side of my thigh, he has referred me to have a Bone Scan using Nucular Medicine to see if it had spread, of course I am concerned and I am hoping it is something else.. I am now waiting for my PSA results to see if my holistic approach has had an effect on lowering my PSA so I will update this again in the next week or so.. I hope everyone is getting better and the AMA figures out how to CURE this type of cancer..

May the Blessings be with all of us and may God bless you too!

Stewart

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1293
Joined: Apr 2009

...I wonder, did you do any of the diagnostic tests?...ie mri, etc.

twowheelsonly
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2010

As I wrote when I posted earlier I had a CT scan done in Oct 2010 which showed my prostate was 2 1/2 times bigger than normal, with a Lession on my left Lymph and 1 suspicious spots Renal in both Kidneys..

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1293
Joined: Apr 2009

I hope that you will be compliant with medical professional(s) who specialize in this disease..........

My prayers are with you

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