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Destiny or free will?

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
Posts: 2731
Joined: Jul 2006

I'm torn. Sometimes I believe one and sometimes the other. I've had experiences which point to both! So is some things destiny and we have free will over other things? I'd like to know what others think.

Noellesmom
Posts: 1306
Joined: Aug 2010

I believe God knows all but He made us creatures of free will.

sea60's picture
sea60
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We have the free will to choose however God already knows the outcome.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Ha-ha...
I believe we have free will. I do not think that things are destined to happen at all. I think very much (if not all) is random with no one/being knowing or planning any outcome.

RE's picture
RE
Posts: 4622
Joined: Feb 2004

I think you answered your own question, it is exactly what I was going to say. God gave us free will, the right to choose when destiny comes a knocking. Just because it may be right or good for us does not mean we're gonna choose it. By the way I love your new picture, quite nice!

(¯`v´¯)
.`*.¸.*RE´

soccerfreaks's picture
soccerfreaks
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sep 2006

I wanted to say 'free will', but I couldn't.

Take care,

Joe

ms.sunshine
Posts: 710
Joined: Mar 2010

You have the freedom to choose. To make decisions.

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
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Joined: Jul 2006

So you think sometimes an angel is sent to help us? I think so sometimes but don't understand why some people get help and others don't'. Once I was almost in a car accident that probably I would not have survived. I saw the vehicle coming and decided to try and get out of the way. I could not take my foot off the brake. Which was fortunate because they swerved and missed me completely. My brain told me to move it and I couldn't. I don't know why. It wasn't fear cause I had thought processes before hand and didn't think about fear. Just survival. My son was in the car with me. I'll probably never know at least as long as I live.

sea60's picture
sea60
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Joined: May 2010

God commands His angels to go before you, carrying you, not even letting your foot stike a stone. I cover myself, my family, friends each and every day with this promise and I believe it. Like you Marcia, I've had more than one close call which could have been disasterous. But He commands his angels...isn't that the most awesome thing? It wasn't my time yet...it wasn't yours.

I can't say some people have angels while others don't. But I believe what His Word says... He WILL do.

His Word will not fail or forsake.

Blessings,

Sylvia

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Joined: May 2005

I guess having your Guardian Angel by your shoulder is better than having them at the "other end". I feel that whatever gives you comfort and does no harm to others is great! I've had plenty of things that happen to me that are hard to explain. I tend to think that it has more to to with parallel universes and sometime things/people cross over to our universe. Weird??? Yup but no weirder than angels to me.

I also have people praying for me all over the place. I receive it as being sent positive energy. There is comfort in it for sure. I just don't take the various religions as facts. I understand them to be myths which have been part of humankind since caveman days. As a species it's part of who we are I believe.

But also Babs, many other people are prayed for and do not do well with their cancer. Here I am, not of any faith and questioning the whole religion thing, and I'm doing very well with all of my treatments. One might think that a "believer" would get preference over an agnostic/atheist.

I'm glad things are going well Babs, that's what matters with all of us I think.
-p

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
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I have trouble believing in parallel universes. Can't wrap my brain around that one.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I hope I didn't sound like I thought you thought that God punishes or gives cancer. My point was that there are people who have incredibly strong faith yet it might seem like their prayers go unanswered. I don't know either why some people survive cancer and others don't. I do believe attitude has a lot to do with it but I'm sure many people with good attitudes die and many with just "attitudes" survive. Cancer isn't just one disease, it's many with many causes. That's what makes it so hard to battle.

There is a saying, I do not know who said it first but it goes something like this: "Mythology is someone else's religion". What I get from that statement is that what I believe is true but what someone else believes is not true and therefore can be considered a myth (for arguments sake I'll use Christianity and Judaism). I think we all want to believe that what we believe is "right" and we will be rewarded for following that path. There are some out there who believe that those who believe differently will not be rewarded and possibly even punished. I have a hard time accepting that way of thinking but it's been the basis for countless wars throughout history and is still going on today with various genocides that are based on ethnic cleansing and also loosely with terrorists. I think that case has less to do with religion and more to do with government policies. The extremists hijacked the faith.

As far as religions being myths, yes...I believe that (most all if not all) religions use stories to teach lessons. I do not believe they are based on actual events or facts at all. I do not believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, nor do I believe the story of Adam and Eve and that everyone came from them. I believe them to be stories that are meant to teach us something or to explain things that people did not understand at the time at all.

Dictionary.com defines Myth as "a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature."
It defines Religion as "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

I know the whole string theory stuff is pretty far out. I do not understand a lot about it but I have many strange things that happen to me that are hard to blow off as just coincidences. Not any earth-shattering things but simple decisions that I make that may have been decided based on a "gut feeling" or just the timing of events. It's hard to explain and even harder to understand. There is a lot more going on than what meets the eye though. I certainly do not think that believing in God is strange at all. It's the people who KNOW that they know all of the answers and leave nothing open to a belief that someone else may have (or millions of people may have) that I find strange and disturbing.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4673
Joined: May 2005

You're just trying to put me at ease before you attack me!!!! That's the oldest trick in the book Babs.
;-)
I think that the majority of people are good no matter what their faith is. I live close to NYC and I am surprised how the ground zero mosque/center went from a project that was endorsed by all faiths at first and then into this political hot potato that really goes against what the USA is supposed to stand for. Freedom of religion and of speech. No one got upset that there is a mosque inside the pentagon about 80 ft from where one of the planes crashed.

I really like this guy, Joseph Campbell, who was a noted theologian, philosopher, teacher and all around "nice guy". He passed away in the late 1980s I believe but he wrote many books about religions/myths/God(s) and does an interesting job of finding similarities in various faiths. he's more than how I described him too. He also did an interview with Bill Moyers that still runs on PS from time to time called the Power of Myth. If you ever get a chance to watch it I think you'd enjoy it.
Campbell wrote once that "God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought." Like you said, I don't think we can understand God or the origins of the universe if it's not created by God. It's some really complex stuff. Saying one believes in this or that is meaningless I think if you do not follow it up with actions. I think someone is much better off living honestly and doing no harm to others than they are giving themselves a label as a religious person yet being a bigot or dishonest in their lives.

On a sort of side note, I was watching The Daily Show last night and they had this author on, Sam Harris who wrote a book "The Moral Landscape" about how science has nothing to say about humans and their moral responsibility to humankind and how it's been left up to religions to determine that. It sounds like an interesting read to me but I tend to like books that question religion. One point that he made that stuck out for me was that in the bible, they talk about the morality of slavery. That's a pretty basic concept that seems to OK for people to have practiced. Nowadays it's rather obvious that any form of slavery is morally wrong.

Another thing I listened to at 3 am (couldn't sleep) was a BBC interview with Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who was going to burn the Koran on 9/11. He was interviewed by a British reporter for the BBC who did not think too highly of Mr Jones. I did find it interesting that Mr. Jones never read any of the Koran yet he was told by the bible (and by God he said) that it is evil and it should be destroyed. There was a man who was so solid in his belief that he didn't even need to read anything in order to know what he had to do. I think he gives the faith a bad name as do the TV evangelists who tell people to send money, even if they are in debt and have to put it on their credit cards. I have seen them actually tell people to do that and that God will give them more money in return. I know that no one has a gun to their heads but WOW...

I guess I'm just one of those who will always question religion and it's place in society. But back to the beginning of this. Babs, I'm sure you are a very nice person and I do not feel threatened by you at all. I am glad that you have your faith and that you live your life to help others. That's the best any of us can do....
Peace
-phil
Sorry to ramble on and on here. this could have been 3 or 4 different posts I think!

tommybear
Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009

My brother in law just gave me the book "Power of Myth" by Joseph Campbell. I'll definitely have to take a look at it.

And, yes, how many good, loving people I know that are not "religious", opposed to the evil people that are still attending church.

Why can't we all just be good, peaceful and loving? It's not really that difficult.

Michele S.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4673
Joined: May 2005

a caveman can do it!
Getting along is not hard if one treats others as they wish to be treated.

I hope you enjoy the book. I really love that one, the TV interview was great too. It's interesting how similar the religions really are.
-phil

tommybear
Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009

Regardless of where your faith lies...And love, love, love!

I guess I do believe there are reasons for things. Not that we always will know right away, or that we will make the "correct" decisions. Too many things have happened in my lifetime that I feel like I have not had any choices....Too many things that have caused people pain and things that have caused happpiness. And I don't feel like I have had much to do with any of it. It just sort of happens and I keep moving along. I have a choice on how I deal with what is handed to me. (The only thing that I do know is that my children are meant to be here and that is a definite reason for me to be here!)

Do you think that praying or asking for certain outcomes is selfish? I sometimes don't ask for healing or positive things. Who am I to know that is what is supposed to be? I guess it is back to the "Destiny or free will". If my destiny is to die from whatever I have, then who am I to ask for something otherwise? I don't fight those things, but do not sit around and count on the "prayers". I do ask for help, peace and strength and the "wisdom to the know the difference". Like Phil had said, I accept the prayers as positive energy (was raised Baptist) and know that is only good that people think of others and want to send thoughts and prayers as gifts.

Wow, my Southern Baptist dad would have a fit if he read this...

Sorry for the rambling...this is kind of a deep subject...

Michele S.

mariam_11_09's picture
mariam_11_09
Posts: 693
Joined: Nov 2009

Marcia, what do you mean by 'free will'? Will that is independant and seperate from 'Holy' Will or 'God's' Will?

What about in the Lords Prayer - 'Thy Will be done' and the expression 'God Willing'. God willing we live .....or die.

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
Posts: 2731
Joined: Jul 2006

Hi mariam. IMO it's very difficult to know what God's will is. We go through life making choices and we try the best we can and sometimes things just turn out different than expected. So I wondered if this is destiny or just a result of our choice.

mariam_11_09's picture
mariam_11_09
Posts: 693
Joined: Nov 2009

you are absolutely right, it is difficult to know what 'God's Will' is. However I do know that when I let go of the need that I absolutely have to have something in a certain way and I am trying to 'make' this happen according to my expectations then I feel the choices that are made don't come from 'me' or 'my ego' but come through me from somewhere else.

Perhaps 'God's Will' is not something that is hard coded but rather happens in the moment which is why we will not know 'God's Will' in advance but maybe experience it in that moment.

Okay that was a mouthful.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4673
Joined: May 2005

"God's will" is what people who believe in God say when things are not going well. I do not think I've ever heard anyone say "it's God's will that I won a million dollars in the lottery".
Free will is what is used to say that if we follow everything God wants us to do, we'll be OK. If we stray and do something else, it's our own fault if things do not go well.

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
Posts: 2731
Joined: Jul 2006

You wanna hear something funny?

When the movie Good Will Hunting came out I thought it was about somebody searching for good will based on the title. hee hee. Assumptions again.

sea60's picture
sea60
Posts: 2601
Joined: May 2010

all I can say is I am ever so grateful Jesus Christ died and shed His blood so that I can be saved and forgiven of choices I made during MY free will.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4673
Joined: May 2005

Whatever works for you...

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4673
Joined: May 2005

I didn't rush to see it. I was sort of tired of Robin Williams' same-old-time performances at the time.
Speaking of hunting (sort of) someone hit a deer by me with their car, then they cut the head off and just left the body about 10 feet from the road. What a jerk. As sick as it was they could have at least dragged it into the woods. The mighty hunter with his trophy.

What's even crazier is that I took photos and reported it to the police in my town. When I said what street it was on, they responded "it's not our jurisdiction".
NY's Finest (but not the brightest...)

mariam_11_09's picture
mariam_11_09
Posts: 693
Joined: Nov 2009

I like your photo. I am guessing it was your own free will that put it on the board.

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