PETscan shows no improvement

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nancy591
nancy591 Member Posts: 1,027 Member
edited March 2014 in Ovarian Cancer #1
Hi,
I'm wondering if anyone has had a similar experience. I had a PETscan in November and started on Doxil in Jan. for my first reoccurence. After 3 doses of Doxil I had another petscan. The petscan shows no improvement but little change. My surgeon and oncologist are consulting with how to proceed. Since my last pet was in Nov. but I didnt start chemo until Jan. I had asked to delay treatment till after the new year. Surgeon said overall my PET wasn't too bad. My reoccurrence shows up a little big brighter but is still very small. I have some new spots on my abdomen but they are VERY small. I can't help but wonder if I may be on my downhill slide. The surgeon did say there was very little change. Maybe if the Doxil wasn't working at all things would have been a lot worse? I did have about 6weeks between the Pet in Nov. and actually starting chemo in Jan. Maybe it got worse and now its getting better? I'll know tomorrow how they want to proceed. Either continue the Doxil or start a new chemo...possibly Gemzar.

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  • upsofloating
    upsofloating Member Posts: 466 Member
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    I'm just back from 2nd Doxil
    I'm just back from 2nd Doxil infusion, one week delay due to low neutrophil ct. I had abn PET in September, positive biopsy in Oct. I chose to hold off chemo pending a 3-month CT scan since i did not see doc till November. Dec scan essentially unchanged from Sept - w/no treatment. With upcoming holiday I also chose to hold off starting chemo, esp. w/ no change over 3 months. Started Doxil end of Jan. I'll be doing next scan in April. I wouldn't jump to any thoughts of a 'downhill slide' since there does not appear to be any advancement of issues. Keep us up on what next steps are to be.
    Take care, Annette
  • nancy591
    nancy591 Member Posts: 1,027 Member
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    thanks
    Thanks for the response. I just spoke with the oncologist. She is waiting for input from the head GYN oncologist but they might not be ready to give up on the Doxil yet. She says Doxil can have a delayed response and it could take up to 6 doses to see full effect. Hopefully Doxil will continue to be an option for me. My reoccurence is still small with a new VERY small spot. But she says it really is very little change.
  • BonnieR
    BonnieR Member Posts: 1,526 Member
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    NO Pets Here
    Hi Nancy,

    So many decisions in this journey. I would think only three doses of doxil was not enough to make much of difference but we are each different. My doc doesn't do pet/cts, just ct scans and believes they are not really accurate for ovarian cancer. Although he has let me have 2 of them in the past seven years. :-) I know for me the doxil worked way better then gemzar and was easier on my body, but it does take a few doses for it to work. I think my ca125 continued to rise the first two months and then started to slowly go down. What is your ca125 doing? Sending you lots of prayers for clarity on the next step, and for your medical team.

    Hugs ♥ Prayers Bonnie
  • nancy591
    nancy591 Member Posts: 1,027 Member
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    BonnieR said:

    NO Pets Here
    Hi Nancy,

    So many decisions in this journey. I would think only three doses of doxil was not enough to make much of difference but we are each different. My doc doesn't do pet/cts, just ct scans and believes they are not really accurate for ovarian cancer. Although he has let me have 2 of them in the past seven years. :-) I know for me the doxil worked way better then gemzar and was easier on my body, but it does take a few doses for it to work. I think my ca125 continued to rise the first two months and then started to slowly go down. What is your ca125 doing? Sending you lots of prayers for clarity on the next step, and for your medical team.

    Hugs ♥ Prayers Bonnie

    PET vs CT
    Thanks Bonnie. I don't understand how a PET wouldn't be considered superior to a CT. My CT in Nov. was clear yet the PET showed a small, unmeasurable area. Biopsy confirmed it was cancer. Is it because if it doesn't show up on the CT it is not worth treating? My ca125 is still with normal limits. It was a good marker for me in the past but I'm not so sure now. My latest ca125, before my 3rd chemo, was 23. Down from 30.
  • lindaprocopio
    lindaprocopio Member Posts: 1,980
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    nancy591 said:

    PET vs CT
    Thanks Bonnie. I don't understand how a PET wouldn't be considered superior to a CT. My CT in Nov. was clear yet the PET showed a small, unmeasurable area. Biopsy confirmed it was cancer. Is it because if it doesn't show up on the CT it is not worth treating? My ca125 is still with normal limits. It was a good marker for me in the past but I'm not so sure now. My latest ca125, before my 3rd chemo, was 23. Down from 30.

    PET vs CT
    Since my recurrence I was given the combo CT/PET scan, but my oncologist has always been very wary of PET scans. He says that false POSITIVES are very common for tumors less than 1 cm. (False NEGATIVES are very UNcommon, so you can feel confident about a clear PET when blessed with one!) PETs are quite accurate with larger tumors; it's the little things that light up that may not be cancer at all. The advantage is that a problem can be flagged sooner with a PET-scan. But I know quite a few women that had little lymph nodes light up on a PET-scan, had surgery for biopsy, and got the happy news that the node was benign. (But they had surgery for nothing.)

    I know I read a study that said that initiating chemo on a tumor that is still too small to be visible on a CT-scan does nothing to prolong life when compared to waiting until it is visible on a CT-scan. That is hard for me to accept, and I did just take 10 rounds of taxol based on a PET-scan that could not be safely confirmed by biopsy. I think the BEST test is the combo CT/PET where both imaging is done back-to-back on the same machine, and one laid atop the other for diagnosis. The combo CT/PET gives off much less radiation than a CT-scan alone, but not every cancer center has that machine (I had mine in a 'mobile' trailer that id taken from site to site and shared.) And not everyone's insurance will pay for that costly test.
  • nancy591
    nancy591 Member Posts: 1,027 Member
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    PET vs CT
    Since my recurrence I was given the combo CT/PET scan, but my oncologist has always been very wary of PET scans. He says that false POSITIVES are very common for tumors less than 1 cm. (False NEGATIVES are very UNcommon, so you can feel confident about a clear PET when blessed with one!) PETs are quite accurate with larger tumors; it's the little things that light up that may not be cancer at all. The advantage is that a problem can be flagged sooner with a PET-scan. But I know quite a few women that had little lymph nodes light up on a PET-scan, had surgery for biopsy, and got the happy news that the node was benign. (But they had surgery for nothing.)

    I know I read a study that said that initiating chemo on a tumor that is still too small to be visible on a CT-scan does nothing to prolong life when compared to waiting until it is visible on a CT-scan. That is hard for me to accept, and I did just take 10 rounds of taxol based on a PET-scan that could not be safely confirmed by biopsy. I think the BEST test is the combo CT/PET where both imaging is done back-to-back on the same machine, and one laid atop the other for diagnosis. The combo CT/PET gives off much less radiation than a CT-scan alone, but not every cancer center has that machine (I had mine in a 'mobile' trailer that id taken from site to site and shared.) And not everyone's insurance will pay for that costly test.

    thanks
    Thanks for the response. I did have PET/CT. I should have clarified. I am being treated at Memorial Sloan Kettering in NYC. They are a HUGE cancer center and have several PET/CT machines. CT was clear but PET showed small areas. I didn't realize the PET/CT combo gave off less radiation. I did ask about maintenance Taxol. Sloan Kettering doesn't do it. Taxol, as a single agent, might be an option for me in the future,. Thanks for all the information you've shared.
  • lindaprocopio
    lindaprocopio Member Posts: 1,980
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    nancy591 said:

    thanks
    Thanks for the response. I did have PET/CT. I should have clarified. I am being treated at Memorial Sloan Kettering in NYC. They are a HUGE cancer center and have several PET/CT machines. CT was clear but PET showed small areas. I didn't realize the PET/CT combo gave off less radiation. I did ask about maintenance Taxol. Sloan Kettering doesn't do it. Taxol, as a single agent, might be an option for me in the future,. Thanks for all the information you've shared.

    My chemo-onc won't do maintenance chemo either.
    I was given weekly taxol because my oncologists were 95% sure I had a recurrance (based on a hard spike in CA-125 and a lit-up PET scan). Originally it was just to 'hold' me until after the holidays, but it turned out to be fairly effective in lowering my CA-125 (which dropped 100 points on the single agent taxol), so we stayed with it 10 rounds. I just started a chemo break, as my CT/PET scan was clear, even though my CA-125 is still at 42.5.

    I believe that carbo/taxol will be my next line of chemo when (if!!) I recur again; followed by Doxil. But I think that single agent taxol is something I could go back to again later on. Sloan Kettering is AMAZING! You are so fortunate to be treated there! I would trust them completely.
  • nancy591
    nancy591 Member Posts: 1,027 Member
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    My chemo-onc won't do maintenance chemo either.
    I was given weekly taxol because my oncologists were 95% sure I had a recurrance (based on a hard spike in CA-125 and a lit-up PET scan). Originally it was just to 'hold' me until after the holidays, but it turned out to be fairly effective in lowering my CA-125 (which dropped 100 points on the single agent taxol), so we stayed with it 10 rounds. I just started a chemo break, as my CT/PET scan was clear, even though my CA-125 is still at 42.5.

    I believe that carbo/taxol will be my next line of chemo when (if!!) I recur again; followed by Doxil. But I think that single agent taxol is something I could go back to again later on. Sloan Kettering is AMAZING! You are so fortunate to be treated there! I would trust them completely.

    Linda
    I'm curious to know how long until you had your first reoccurence? I did ask the surgeon and oncologist if carbo/taxol or taxol alone would be a treatment option in the future. Surgeon said since my cancer came back in a little over 6 months ..(it was about 8 months and ct was clear but it showed on the PET) but since it was a little over 6 months she said there would be better drugs out there for me. My oncoloigst though gave me a different answer. She said those drugs could be a treatment option for me in the future. My ca125 is probably not going to be a good marker for me. At time of diagnosis I was 720 and went to a 6 after all was said and done. Now, with my reoccurence, the highest I went was to a 30. Thanks for all your input.
  • lindaprocopio
    lindaprocopio Member Posts: 1,980
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    nancy591 said:

    Linda
    I'm curious to know how long until you had your first reoccurence? I did ask the surgeon and oncologist if carbo/taxol or taxol alone would be a treatment option in the future. Surgeon said since my cancer came back in a little over 6 months ..(it was about 8 months and ct was clear but it showed on the PET) but since it was a little over 6 months she said there would be better drugs out there for me. My oncoloigst though gave me a different answer. She said those drugs could be a treatment option for me in the future. My ca125 is probably not going to be a good marker for me. At time of diagnosis I was 720 and went to a 6 after all was said and done. Now, with my reoccurence, the highest I went was to a 30. Thanks for all your input.

    Nancy: I recurred 8 months since last carbo/taxol chemo.
    Nancy, I don't have ovarian cancer, but instead a rare form of aggressive recurrent uterine cancer that mimics papillary serous ovarian cancer in prognosis and treatment. And, actually, the prognosis for my cancer is even a bit worse than ovarian cancer at a similar stage. So, although I finished chemo March 26, 2009; I had 28 rounds of external pelvic radiation and 3 internal vaginal brachys after my chemo as a part of my initial treatment protocol. So, although my first remission was only 5 months, it had been 8 months since I;d had chemo when I started taking the single agent taxol for my recurrance.

    So my experience may not be 100% pertinent to your decisions. I know that my gyn-onc felt that I should start carbo/taxol again right after my recurrance, but my chemo-onc likes to have at least a year in between re-using carboplatin. My CA-125 jumped from 11 to 155 to signal my recurrance, and the single agent taxol got it down to the mid-40's where it got stuck for the last 6 rounds.
  • nancy591
    nancy591 Member Posts: 1,027 Member
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    Nancy: I recurred 8 months since last carbo/taxol chemo.
    Nancy, I don't have ovarian cancer, but instead a rare form of aggressive recurrent uterine cancer that mimics papillary serous ovarian cancer in prognosis and treatment. And, actually, the prognosis for my cancer is even a bit worse than ovarian cancer at a similar stage. So, although I finished chemo March 26, 2009; I had 28 rounds of external pelvic radiation and 3 internal vaginal brachys after my chemo as a part of my initial treatment protocol. So, although my first remission was only 5 months, it had been 8 months since I;d had chemo when I started taking the single agent taxol for my recurrance.

    So my experience may not be 100% pertinent to your decisions. I know that my gyn-onc felt that I should start carbo/taxol again right after my recurrance, but my chemo-onc likes to have at least a year in between re-using carboplatin. My CA-125 jumped from 11 to 155 to signal my recurrance, and the single agent taxol got it down to the mid-40's where it got stuck for the last 6 rounds.

    thank
    Thank you again for all your input. I guess I'm feeling a bit needy.
  • Hissy_Fitz
    Hissy_Fitz Member Posts: 1,834
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    I think all doctors are a
    I think all doctors are a little different in their approach to OVC, but from what I have been able to piece together, Doxil - either alone or in combo with Gemzar - is widely accepted as the preferred second line treatment.

    My doctor only does Taxol maintenance (reduced dose once a month) on patients who have completed first line treatment (usually carbo and taxol) and are subsequently judged to be NED (via a clean CT scan and normal CA125 readings).

    Weekly Taxol is different......it is considered active treatment. The dosage varies, depending on how well you tolerate it, as well as other factors.

    I read somewhere that it takes 4 doses of Doxil to establish its effectiveness.