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Do you think it is possible to kill prostate cells by diet ect..

gwc
Posts: 8
Joined: Feb 2010

Do you think diet can kill cancer cells in the prostate? For example
veggies fruits wine green tea certain spices no milk products limited fats

erisian's picture
erisian
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 2008

It certainly IS possible for diet to affect prostate cancer! The trouble is, good info is hard to find. The ACS has a wealth of conservatively written information about diet and supplements on their web site under Making Treatment Decisions > Complementary and Alternative Therapies

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/ETO_5.asp?sitearea=ETO

They also publish the same information in a book.

The best book I've seen so far on the subject: Natural Strategies for Cancer Patients, by Russell Blaylock MD

http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Strategies-Patients-Russell-Blaylock/dp/0758202210/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267491810&sr=1-1

I found a copy in the library at my local cancer center.

gwc
Posts: 8
Joined: Feb 2010

I have been eatting foods I have read kill pc cells. My psa keeps going down
5.5 now 10 months later 2.25. wonder if i should have the dreaded biosay done again.
not sure if i should just be watching and waiting. gleason 3+3 1 in 12 core had cancer
wish i knew if i had aggressive on non aggressive cancer

Trew
Posts: 892
Joined: Jan 2010

I posted a question a week ago RE the use of soy if you have PC. Whether soy produced testosrone, I don't know, but I understand it does produce estrogen which seems like a bad thing for a guy on the shot.

Health diet never hurts and I know a lot of folk in my circle of friends who put a lot of trust in diet. If I was going to rely on diet, I would be sure to be tested often to be sure noting was heading in the wrong direction.

bdhilton
Posts: 759
Joined: Jan 2010

My doctors, own research and a paid nutritionist advise is no more than 1 serving a day of a soy product…. I typically have a glass of soy milk light but some days have one serving of tofu…From what I have been told and researched more is not better here…btw Asians have many other types of cancer more prevalent than we do here is the western world….
Anyway, I believe that certain foods and diet are beneficial (for example-my mother is 83 and living was diagnosed with Multiple Myeloma 25 years ago (no treatment to date) and she continues to kick a$$-but she truly believes in her diet and exercise program…)..Lots of good infor out there but watch out for the supplements web sites…. Always better IMHO to change your eating habits than to think taking a supplements are the answer…best to all

marc1957
Posts: 79
Joined: Oct 2009

I would think so, otherwise, how does one explain the almost non-existent PC in Asians (in their homeland).

The question remains in my mind, exactly what is it that matters - thats the big unknown I think.

HIFUgal
Posts: 58
Joined: Sep 2009

No, I don't believe you can cure cancer with eatting right. But, maybe you can prevent or delay cancer by eatting right....however...

My best friend is a wholistic food freak, joga instructor, her complexion is perfect, everything about her is perfect...yet she just underwent a double masectomy. Her mom and sister both died from breast cancer.

Cancer is a cell that loses it's program and reproduces wildly. Sometimes it loses it's new cancer program and quits reproducing, then the cancer is silent, in remission.

It's a crap shoot.....and my real belief is you are born with a gene that is all set to turn to cancer...it's inherited.

erisian's picture
erisian
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 2008

I think that there are a whole bunch of things that matter in diet and nutrition. There are some common themes, however, that come up a lot. Eat lots of veggies, especially members of the cabbage family. Eat lots of high-antioxidant fruit like blueberries and citrus, (but no grapefruit if you are on certain drugs). Don't eat much red meat. Eat lots of cold water ocean fish, they have good fats. And on and on...

What you want to do is eat a diet that provides the best possible support for your immune system. Your immune system can kill cancer cells, but it needs to be in good shape to do it. The new Provenge and Prostvac prostate cancer vaccines (not FDA approved yet) need a strong immune system in order to work.

Radiation and chemo damage the immune system, quite badly in some cases, so dietary support is especially important to patients in active treatment.

My favorite argument for diet is this:

Do you believe that eating a poor diet can increase your cancer risk,
or increase disease progression if you have cancer?

If so, then why do you believe that a good diet,
(whatever that is) can't have positive effects?

bdhilton
Posts: 759
Joined: Jan 2010

thanks good post and summary imho...

Best to all-BD

tarhoosier
Posts: 189
Joined: Aug 2006

Diet certainly can affect prostate cancer, and perhaps other cancers as well. For those men with small amounts of slow growing prostate cancer there have been many trials using vitamins, diet and such that showed a slowing of the growth by extending the doubling time and in some cases actually reducing the psa. This does not mean that the cancer cells were eliminated. There is no evidence that any diet, food, supplement, special water or any normally benign compound can cure prostate cancer. It is believed that Asians have as much prostate cancer as western males and that their diet slows the growth sufficiently that many more of those men are never diagnosed. In effect, the slow growing cancer is made even more slowly growing. This reduces their diagnosis rate. Some Asian men still die of this disease, so this is not a cure. For men with the lethal strain of prostate cancer any help would be appreciated and a healthy diet is a boon to everyone regardless of condition, age, disease state.

erisian's picture
erisian
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 2008

There is also no evidence that any conventional treatment can cure metastatic prostate cancer. The best studies they have show increased survival time, and these are what the "standard of care" is based on. For example, docetaxel increased median survival vs the previous standard of care, so it became the new standard of care.

For me, evidence of increased PSA doubling time is enough to make me consider a food or supplement, and if there were any PSA decreases, then that is an even stronger indication. I have noticed a double standard, where a drug is considered to be effective if it causes a PSA drop, but a food or supplement which effectively does the same thing isn't.

I'm on round 4 of chemo now, having flunked out of docetaxel, mitoxantrone, and paclitaxel. In all cases, the drug was considered effective as long as the PSA was declining or steady, and treatment was discontinued on a rise in three consecutive PSA tests. So by my oncologists standards, a declining PSA is a conclusive indication that a conventional treatment is effective. I see no reason to hold dietary or herbal treatments to a different standard.

Take Saw Palmetto, for example. There is evidence that it can cause PSA to drop, but it usually gets pooh-poohed by doctors. I say if it drops the PSA, then it's doing something good. If my doctor dissed it, I would ask him why he considers a PSA drop to be an indication of effective treatment only if it was caused by a prescribed drug.

tr008
Posts: 9
Joined: Nov 2009

I don't think that diet will Kill cancer cells but there is much evidence that shows that cancer is fed by fat and if you can keep a very low fat diet the cancer does not continue to grow. My wife has read several books on the subject and we have changed our diet significantly. It has led us to the discovery of Buffalo meet. It has less fat content than chicken, you have to watch certain grocery outlets and their burger cause some has fat added to aide in making a nice patty. But, it tastes great.

There is much to be read on this subject and I think that it has some merrit. The claim is that if you can get your fat intake down to 15% or less there is not cancer growth.

Tom

mikmik10
Posts: 1
Joined: Mar 2010

Diet is extremely important. Will a proper diet kill cancer cells? I don’t know, but when I was diagnosed I had a PSA of 7.47 and the subsequent biopsy showed cancer present in 25% of the snips. It was decided to monitor the PSA every three months. I then decided to make a couple of dietary adjustments. I quit coffee and started drinking 10 to 12 cups of green tea per day. Several other important adjustments include filtering tap water before consumption. Buy organic fruit and vegetables grown within a 100-mile radius, which will give you the best nutritional value and lowest chemical residue.

Three months later my PSA was 5.38 and as a result I chose to wait six months for the next one, about the first week in May.

Evagirl's picture
Evagirl
Posts: 60
Joined: Mar 2010

I believe that diet effects everything

hmmm maybe get DH to switch from beef to chicken and from coffee to green tea?

Its worth a try~~~ :-)

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lewvino
Posts: 1007
Joined: May 2009

You ask so many good questions.....We should really talk on the phone....Send me a private email if you want at lewvino@yahoo.com and we can arrange a time to talk if interested.

Larry

erisian's picture
erisian
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 2008

I mix green tea with black tea so that it has more flavor. I still drink coffee occasionally, but now I have an excuse to get a really good coffee when I do have one!

Diet is such a complex subject! Good info is hard to find among all the fads and "the latest study has shown that..."

One good piece of advice that I read recently simplifies things:
A heart-healthy diet is a prostate-healthy diet.

bdhilton
Posts: 759
Joined: Jan 2010

agreed and that is what I say as well...

finbar
Posts: 26
Joined: Aug 2009

I've read many articles and books on the subject of diet and cancer.
You certainly can't beat a good diet for good health.
As for prostate cancer, in 2006 UCLA conducted a study and found that
eating pomegranates (or drinking 100% pomegranate juice)for two years
extended the period for the doubling of th PSA from 15 months to 54
months. Incredible.

pwiggins
Posts: 9
Joined: Sep 2009

I'm 47 and had Divinci surgery in 2/09. My PSA pre-surgery was 4; after surgery 16. It had metasized to my pelvic area. Began Lurpon in June of last year and 6 weeks of radiation. Although I eat pretty well a change in diet along with Lupron decreased my PSA as of today to zero. Age, diet, individuality all go into how you react to PC.

gjeck6874
Posts: 9
Joined: Feb 2010

I saw the same article regarding the doubling time of the PSA being reduced drastically with the group of men that consumed 8 oz. of pomegranate juice daily for two years.

Anyone know what are the health results of the juice prior to the two year span?
When does the PSA begin to actually slow down?

Grocery stores have begun to include pomegranate juice drinks on their shelves recently.

Are there different qualities of the juice that can be utilized ... 100% juice drinks like apple/cranberry/pomegranate mixtures? 100% pomegranate juice?

Anyone begin a program of drinking pomegranate juice?

Geoff

erisian's picture
erisian
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 2008

I use it, but not 8oz/day!
That's a lot-- a lot of sugar, for one thing. That's also about $2.00/day. It *is* good stuff, but the 8oz/day study was funded by POM, so it's up to you to decide. I'm taking 2oz/day. It's also a lot of flavor. I like to mix it with some acai juice, it takes some of the edge of it. But I don't by mixed juice, see below.

Because the real stuff is so pricey, there are plenty of cheaper versions that are cut with pear and other juices. Don't buy them, they just have more sugar and less antioxidants.

Only buy 100% Pomegranate juice. 100% Juice doesn't mean 100% Pomegranate juice.

bdhilton
Posts: 759
Joined: Jan 2010

This is what I try to work in most days and I have even learned to eat in restrauants the same way (and I will have a grass feed beef steak and a couple of scotchs a monthE)
Every day:
Tomato products 2x day (Mariana sauce, tomatoes salsa (homemade), etc...)
8oz Pomegranate juice 100%
1/2 cup wild blueberries
one soy product a day (from my research you should only do one serving a day)
over 30grams of fiber
8-10 serving of fruits/vegs
2-7 raw Brazilian nuts and 10-14 raw Almonds

Working my Vitamin back in:
Morning Daily
Vitamin C 1000 mg
L-Lysine 500 mg
Flax Seed Oil 1300 mg
Lutein 6 mg
B-12 250 mg
Reveratrol Complex 500 mg
Lycopene 10Mg
Evening Daily
Vitamin E 400 mg
Vitiam D3 1000 IU
Reveratrol Complex 500mg
Lycopene 10 mg
Super B:
Thiamin-50 mg, Riboflavin-50 mg, Niacin-300 mg, B-6-50 mg, Folate-400 mg, Biotin-400 mg, Pantothenic Acis-100 mg & Calcium-37 mg
Mineral Complex:Calcium-600 mg, Magnesium-400 mg, Zinc-15 mg, Copper-1 mg, Manganese-3 mg& Potassium-98 mg

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1362
Joined: Apr 2009

new research...negative effect...........

bdhilton
Posts: 759
Joined: Jan 2010

I would be interested in reading the site with the negative information about E. I just started taking E about 3 months ago (minus the three weeks before surgery) and D3 at my Urologist and surgeon suggestion…It would not surprise me that this stuff changes with the wind

erisian's picture
erisian
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 2008

Yup.
There was the SELECT trial, then other studies showing benefits from vit E and selenium... it never ends. Just plug "______ cures cancer" into google, then do "_____ causes cancer". see how many hits you get for each. Beer even works. %)

It makes me give more credence to Integrative Medicine. Diet and nutrition are complex, and the interactions between different nutrients, vitamins, etc, are largely unknown. So if you are going to see any effects, it's probably not just from one thing, so it's hard to isolate something in particular. It's about how everything interacts.

The form in which something is ingested makes a difference too. Some forms of minerals, magnesium oxide for example, are not readily absorbed, while other forms are, like magnesium citrate. Magnesium chloride will absorb through the skin. So now if you do a study with magnesium, and say that we'll take XXmg per day, the actual amount of magnesium that will be bioavailable will vary greatly depending on which form is used.

There seems to be a lot of agreement that if you can get enough of a particular nutrient from food, instead of from a supplement, that it is better. It's usually cheaper too.

bdhilton
Posts: 759
Joined: Jan 2010

Yes I agree that getting what you need through food is better and that is my ultimate goal. Like my selenium I get through my Brazilin Nuts, omega 3 and fish oil through my fish, high grain breads and ground Flax seed, etc… My Urologist and surgeon say get it through your food too but do recommend E (400), D3 (1000), C (750), Pomegranate juice, one soy product a day, a “cheap” multiple vitamin and that you can never eat enough fiber (unless you are going through radiation treatment)….

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1362
Joined: Apr 2009

There was a study that measured seleium and vitamin e on a pop of people, and in fact I started to take thise vitamins, however the study was discontinued because , instead of a positive effect, a negative effect was found.......I cannot site the study, but I did hear a lecture from mark a moyad,md, university of michigan medical center who brought this information to my attention. Also another doctor locally in so cal, mentioned this as well at a support group that I attended at St Joseph medical center.

Ira

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1362
Joined: Apr 2009

good to get it thru fish, but I heard that flax seed doesn't work, even if its ground....I forget the rational, but that's what one of the doc who I heard said.

I guess jelly bean soup is what we really need

Ira

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1362
Joined: Apr 2009

I came across a dvd that mark a moyad, md, mph did, here is some more information. There was a gov run 150 million dollar, Select Trial about Vitamin E and Seleium. It was supposed to run 7-12 years, but was stopped at 5 1/2 years. 400 units of vitamin e increased prostate cancer and seleium increased type two diabetics.

Ira

bdhilton
Posts: 759
Joined: Jan 2010

Hopeful…I would be interested where I can find the specific negative information on vit E, flax seed etc…you are referencing too…I am sure there are many web sites and studies that can counter anything but I would like to know specifically were you are pulling this information from. I am getting my information and recommendations from my surgeon, Urologist and a nutritionist … Many Thanks

randy_in_indy's picture
randy_in_indy
Posts: 493
Joined: Oct 2009

who is begining to really Pi$$ me off lately....said flax seed,Vit E should be in everyones diet. I have now two grips with him regarding prostate situations....but they are touting the flax and vitamin E as very valuable....AH heck..I am going to have a friken pizza and watch Butler try to beat Mich state on Sat! Talk about a fun place to be from....Colts....Butler....what's next?

OH Brother had a blast on the 5 day back pack Grand Canyon Hike ....he's 55 and had no problem keeping up with the group of 30 somethings...said he had a minor blister or two and never fell behind....you are set to go on the one in July...I know the way you are you will be WAY over prepared and ready...just take pads for those scotch toots at night! I am really impressed BD that you did not have any alcohol yet....I am not that disciplined.....I was earlier in my life ...but certainly not now...as I am making up for all the diligent sacrafices I made in my earlier years....

Randy in Indy

bdhilton
Posts: 759
Joined: Jan 2010

I am sure Dr. Oz has his own “patented” brand of Flax seed mix and vitamins…Hate to tell you that pizza is a good food choice for prostate cancer…I have it most Fridays with the family…lol

Your brother and family will never forget that trip to the Grand Canyon… I am sure your brother had no issues keeping up...but I do think we sleep sounder at our age because of the workout :-)

I am up to 8 miles+ a day now (2 hikes not walks)…A couple of days ago I stopped wearing the pads for a security blanket but still do at night (but no accidents in 4 weeks tomorrow-plus last 2 nights sleep 8 hours without getting up-stop drinking water 2 hours before I go asleep)…

As far as my Half Dome climb it has been pushed out to September if I do the radiation since the radiation will start early June or early July…September is not the prettiest month for the climb but is sure drier (no pun-Vernal and Nevada Falls along with the vegetation start to dry up)

I miss my single malt but there is a time for everything and right now I am preparing my body for another beating in June or July….

erisian's picture
erisian
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 2008

The name of the trial was SELECT (the Selenium and Vitamin E Cancer Prevention Trial)
Here's the pubmed page with the numbers:
http://tinyurl.com/yjz5b4d

I would caution any prostate cancer patient about reading too much into it, because this was a *prevention* trial, not a *treatment* trial, and there wasn't much difference anyway. Vitamin E is a good antioxidant, and is an important nutrient. Selenium is important too. A deficiency in either of them can't be good for you. So I figure I might as well take some, because it's more likely to be good for me than bad for me. My oncologist agrees.

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1362
Joined: Apr 2009

This was a major 150 million dollar trial......it's may be where BHiltons doctors are getting their information........say Hilton, did your docs give a source for the referals that they gave.,,,,I think that you will find that its the same study, but not updated.

Erisian...........I would think that if vitamin e and selenium is bad in a prevention trial, it would not be good in treatment.........remember most men die with prostate cancer, not becauce of it...........don't you think that selium will cause type 2 diabetics in men in treatment as well as prevention.

As far as flax seed, I'm not saying that its bad, in fact it has a lot of bulk. Also this doc said that chia seeds are better than flax, having 5 grains per table spoon.

Anyway as you can see, we are stirring up the food covered with flax and chia, with a springling of selium and vitamin e, topped with tomato sauce, along with a shot of pomograte juice on the rocks.

ira

bdhilton
Posts: 759
Joined: Jan 2010

Interesting and thanks for the reference…my doc follows varies University medical studies and said do not take a supplement for selenium because they think in some people it might cause accelerated tumor growth but it is an important element and I get mine from Brazilian nuts (I also eat walnuts and almonds)… My goal is to take little to no supplements and get most everything out of my diet and I am well on my way…

Got to believe in something but I also believe that I need a good steak once a month and my scotch (have not started that yet and probably will not unit after radiation or choice not do radiation-I miss my single malt

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1362
Joined: Apr 2009

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/57701/title/Walnuts_slow_prostate_cancer_growth

randy_in_indy's picture
randy_in_indy
Posts: 493
Joined: Oct 2009

As a child my mother lived by the rule of "Moderation in All Things" She always had a very balanced meal 3 times a day. I just never took any supliments figured I got all I needed from the food I ate. I am told by most everyone I look much younger than I am...but that is probably genes and nothing more...have been fairly healthy with no major problems all my life until now....I had not seen a family doctor for 8 years. I am now changing my ways and seeing one every year whether I want to or not.

Exercise was my religion that made me feel I was indestructible...it worked for about 48 years!...then I got arthritis and old I guess

Randy in Indy

hopeful and opt...
Posts: 1362
Joined: Apr 2009

It seems that in the last several years that we take pills for everything.......in fact we overdose on a lot of pills........vitamins,etc.

Dr. Moyad, the physician who specializes in nutrition for prostate that I have been quoting, recommends that we take a Flintstone or a childrens vitamin instead of regular vitamins for men.......He says we overdose on ingrediants, especially folic acid.

Ira

fjessup
Posts: 6
Joined: Dec 2009

http://1phil4everyill.wordpress.com/tag/jerry-brunetti/

See Jerry Brunetti for extensive discussion of diet by organic farmer who cured his metastasized non-hodgkins lymphoma with diet. Might apply to prostate also.

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