who here takes vicodin every 4hrs? does it still help? or did u grow tolerant to it...update sitting

marc24
marc24 Member Posts: 92
edited March 2014 in Colorectal Cancer #1
I'm here again have nowhere to go typing on my blackberry...my mom was rushed to ER again with unbearable pain..her hesitation to not take fentalyl backfired at 1am and she was in excruciating pain until we put her on the patch...she felt better after about 20 minutes..now I sit here scared of when or if the patch begins to lose its effect. I don't ever want to see her in that much pain, she actually asked for the patch and call 911 and she NEVER ever want to do both, which meant the pain was at its worse it can get..I'm afraid she is getting close, but I'm hoping for the patch to work and have her suffer less...has anyone here had the fentayl patch stop working??? I want to know to be prepared what to do next. My stepdad and I are almost always on panic mode and I dunno what to do with my job schedule, do I take long time off or work or jus risk losing my projects (my job requires projects to be kept and its tax season for corps, I dunno what to do)...and even now as this moment her pain is up to 3-4 out of 10 scale with the patch so the nurse will take off the patch and feed pain relief introvenously...as I'm typing I feel the pain jus keeps fighting off the meds..



After 4 months, i feel that my mom is having the worst pain ever...its like clockwork, every 3 hrs, she has severe left and right pain..we sent her to the ER last week and she felt ok coming in as she had just taken it, but she was hooked into an iv plus morphine so she was ok in the ER, when we got released, she keeps taking vicodin every 4 hrs, but the last three or so weeks, it is not working as much...you know what, i can pretty much say it isnt working anymore, the pain is constant, my mom is super hesitant to take the FENTANYL, i prefusely ask her to use the 3 day patch, and she still doesnt and i dunno what else to do, i see her pain 24/7 and im really losing it....so i was wondering is there a drug out there that isnt as scary as FENTANYL? like a morphine pill/patch? anything with like stronger than vicodin but not the most strongest/scariest as my mom refuses to take it at all..im running out of ideas, i ask her what i can do, she tells me to go away and not look at her but i see her in pain.

Comments

  • Shayenne
    Shayenne Member Posts: 2,342
    I ....
    ...now have the Palliative pain management team that is part of the hospital, who were questioning what actually was working and what wasn't. I was on Oxycontin, for pain, and morphine for the breakthough pain, which I think did squat, I told her the oxy's worked fine, but they now switched my meds to Methadone for pain, and diludid for breakthrough pain, which I like alot better then that morphine.

    Get her prescription changed, no one has to suffer, try to see if the palliative care team
    can help, and be like a "go between" you and the doctor.

    Hope she starts feeling better!

    Hugsssss!
    ~Donna
  • PamPam2
    PamPam2 Member Posts: 370 Member
    Pain
    Hi Marc
    I hate to hear your mom is in such pain. My dad had really bad pain with his bone cancer. He had roxinal (sp?) liquid , you just put a couple drops under the tongue, but he was like your mom, very stubborn about using it. We had hospice nurses that would come in every day too. I guess he wanted to be alert, no matter how much pain. I think for some people, the pain is a way to know you are still in this world, no matter what. I don't know if your mom qualifies for hospice, but they were a blessing for our family, and my dad did like them, not only does a nurse come, but home aides also, and they will do any little thing you want, such as fix a meal, do some light house cleaning, help with a bath and so on, it does give the family some support and a little break, and they are trained to help support the patient and the family with emotional support, and helping to deal with seeing a loved one in pain, and they will work with you encouraging your mom to use the pain meds she has available. I am a stage 4 cc survivor myself, and also went through it all with my dad having untreatable cancer, I feel for you, and know how terrible it is to see one you love in that kind of pain. I am hoping things will even out better for you guys. Feel free to pm me if I can be of any support, I will try. Pam
  • seanslove
    seanslove Member Posts: 70
    Pain management:A big game
    Marc24,

    I can so understand the panic you are going through. My husband was diagnosed with stage 4 mestatic adenocarisinoma in May of this year. At the time he left the hospital he weighted in at 169 pounds. Today he weights,well on last Monday 139,which was up three pounds from the week before,however,with this being chemo week,I am sure we are back down to the 136. When he first got ill,at 6'3 he weighted 180,which still isn't very big. Therefore,to say the least,his pain managment,I feel,the doctors have done nothing more than paly a huge gambling game with.
    When we first came home from the hospital in May he had four rx drugs and one non-rx drug on his plate. Today,he has 16 rx drugs and 3 non-rx drugs which he supposed to be taking on a daily bases. He takes Ms.cotin 12 hours and oyxicodon 4 hours and uses Victon for break throughs. We have found,last Monday night when the pain almost sent us to the ER at 1 am,I sat him in a warm tub of water for about an hour and doubled the dose of the Victon,as they are 7.5-750 APAP tabs,I gave him two at once. Within an hour we had the pain back down to about a 5-6 on a scale of 1-10,which is his normal daily level of pain,a 3-4 would be welcome here.
    I don't know how far along you guys are in your treatment,we just finished cycle two of Folfox 6 with Avistin added in this round. We see the oncolgist Wednseday,at which point the hard question of reality is going to be asked,"Is this all going to put him in re-mission,or only prolong the final result,and how long would it really prolong",as of right now he is tired of the pain,tired of being ill,and tired of here take another pill. I can tell you for him,we have doubled up on pills such as victon and oyxcoden 15mg's without any harm and found relief. I am not telling you to try this,but that it has worked for us.
  • marc24
    marc24 Member Posts: 92
    seanslove said:

    Pain management:A big game
    Marc24,

    I can so understand the panic you are going through. My husband was diagnosed with stage 4 mestatic adenocarisinoma in May of this year. At the time he left the hospital he weighted in at 169 pounds. Today he weights,well on last Monday 139,which was up three pounds from the week before,however,with this being chemo week,I am sure we are back down to the 136. When he first got ill,at 6'3 he weighted 180,which still isn't very big. Therefore,to say the least,his pain managment,I feel,the doctors have done nothing more than paly a huge gambling game with.
    When we first came home from the hospital in May he had four rx drugs and one non-rx drug on his plate. Today,he has 16 rx drugs and 3 non-rx drugs which he supposed to be taking on a daily bases. He takes Ms.cotin 12 hours and oyxicodon 4 hours and uses Victon for break throughs. We have found,last Monday night when the pain almost sent us to the ER at 1 am,I sat him in a warm tub of water for about an hour and doubled the dose of the Victon,as they are 7.5-750 APAP tabs,I gave him two at once. Within an hour we had the pain back down to about a 5-6 on a scale of 1-10,which is his normal daily level of pain,a 3-4 would be welcome here.
    I don't know how far along you guys are in your treatment,we just finished cycle two of Folfox 6 with Avistin added in this round. We see the oncolgist Wednseday,at which point the hard question of reality is going to be asked,"Is this all going to put him in re-mission,or only prolong the final result,and how long would it really prolong",as of right now he is tired of the pain,tired of being ill,and tired of here take another pill. I can tell you for him,we have doubled up on pills such as victon and oyxcoden 15mg's without any harm and found relief. I am not telling you to try this,but that it has worked for us.

    hello
    yea i repetitively asked the er doc what pain medto stick wit but obviously they always go "ask your onco what is correct, et.." so for now we are sticking wit the fentanyl patches which we tried for the 1st time early morning before we sent her to the ER...we are back now from the hospital, she is deep asleep, she is sorta having some noise when breathing but she is tired, the nurse said not to put the patch anytime soon as overdose can occur, so we are gonna wait for another hr or two...its tough to be a caregiver but i know our hardship 1000x easier than what they feel so its hard to complain...i wish all this can just go away and im a 24 yr old fresh out of college guy, i lost most of my friends already, im suffering from work, and my psyche is at an all time low, i wish that she never has pain and now we are gonna wait to talk to our oncologist on tuesday to see the "next step"...hope it gets better for your husband as i dont want anyone suffering from this terrible disease

    but i do want to know anyone out there who took fentanyl and it stopped working since i want to ask and have a sense of idea what otehr drugs are available...?
  • Patteee
    Patteee Member Posts: 945
    marc24 said:

    hello
    yea i repetitively asked the er doc what pain medto stick wit but obviously they always go "ask your onco what is correct, et.." so for now we are sticking wit the fentanyl patches which we tried for the 1st time early morning before we sent her to the ER...we are back now from the hospital, she is deep asleep, she is sorta having some noise when breathing but she is tired, the nurse said not to put the patch anytime soon as overdose can occur, so we are gonna wait for another hr or two...its tough to be a caregiver but i know our hardship 1000x easier than what they feel so its hard to complain...i wish all this can just go away and im a 24 yr old fresh out of college guy, i lost most of my friends already, im suffering from work, and my psyche is at an all time low, i wish that she never has pain and now we are gonna wait to talk to our oncologist on tuesday to see the "next step"...hope it gets better for your husband as i dont want anyone suffering from this terrible disease

    but i do want to know anyone out there who took fentanyl and it stopped working since i want to ask and have a sense of idea what otehr drugs are available...?

    hey
    I am on the other side of where you are coming from. I am the mother with the cancer, my oldest is also 24 and just finished college. I don't have a lot to offer you in terms of pain management :( I was sorta there, but it was under control with various meds. But a couple of things I wanted to comment on.

    The questions you have are hands down, with no doubt, all in the lap of the oncologist. He/she need to know straight up that this management routine needs support and help. What to take, when to take it and so forth. There is no way that your mother should be in such pain- it can be managed! Have you thought about calling her oncologist before Tues meeting and giving them the heads up on your perspective with her pain?

    Second, being the caregiver of someone who is sick and in pain. Your mother is resistant? Tells you to not look at her? Thankfully she is now more willing to use the fentanyl patch and sounds like she is getting some relief from it. Why is she resistant? With my mother, showing pain was like this sign of weakness, I often thought growing up she was a great MARTYR! You also have said you feel as though this is the end. Why? Because of her pain, or is that the message you are getting from her doctors?

    Breath deeply!
  • krystle singer
    krystle singer Member Posts: 108
    Pain meds
    From myown experience--I was gtiven vicodin post surgery and I might as well have swallowed some M&Ms for all the good they did. Some people get no relief from vicodin and I am one. Of course, one can become immune to any drug if taken long enough, I suppose. Now I am given Tylenol 3 and it helps more. I had morphine in the hospital and it was really effective. Don't know about fentanyl. Alas, I know what it is to watch someone you love in pain and not be able to do anything about it. My dad and my sister both suffered so much. I'm sure you have talked to your mom about why she is so reluctant to take pain meds...is sshe afraid she will become addicted? Or is she afraid of the side effects? I am pretty stoic about pain, but after surgery it was just"Hand me the pain pump, I'll deal with other stuff later."

    I pray some solution can be found soon.

    Please know that you and your mom are being thought about and prayed for all the time.

    Hugs and hopes for some relief for you both.

    Sandi
  • PGLGreg
    PGLGreg Member Posts: 731
    Overlap patches.
    You might ask about overlapping the Fentanyl patches --- that is, leaving an old patch in place for a while after applying applying a new patch. This is an off-label way of increasing the dose somewhat that I was advised by my mother's doctor to use to control her pain, if necessary. I think you would definitely not want to experiment in this direction except on the advice of a doctor.
    --Greg
  • marc24
    marc24 Member Posts: 92
    PGLGreg said:

    Overlap patches.
    You might ask about overlapping the Fentanyl patches --- that is, leaving an old patch in place for a while after applying applying a new patch. This is an off-label way of increasing the dose somewhat that I was advised by my mother's doctor to use to control her pain, if necessary. I think you would definitely not want to experiment in this direction except on the advice of a doctor.
    --Greg

    thanks for the comments
    After the first er, we had to actually go back as her pain came back again....now she is confined, I'm typing this in a dark room wit my mom anemic and not havin pain but they did leave the fentanyl patch plus vicodin plus tylenol plus an extra shot of morphine jus now as she felt better from 12 to around 8..the morphine is helping her sleep now.

    And to answer qs, she is jus natuarally hesitant, but I know today is different as she willingly begged for the patch and 911...now there is worry tht she has a leak ih her intestine so a cat scan was done again...if there is leak, option is surgery but my mom (Iand my stepdad and my 3 aunts agree too) to not do so as the surgeon even thought the high risk will make her end up in life support and sadly my mom choses to not be on life support if it happens...ultimately I think and hope she doesn't need surgery and I mainly want her pain to be better managed...her wellbeing and being able to fight for another day is more important for me, surgery felt like betting on the house..so I willk always trust and honor what my mom decides...and also a comment about me saying seeing close to the end, I TRULY REGRET SAYING THAt come tothink of it, my mom is very strongwilled and I KNOW she will get through this ordeal..thanks for keeping me sane :-)
  • Sonia32
    Sonia32 Member Posts: 1,071 Member
    marc24 said:

    thanks for the comments
    After the first er, we had to actually go back as her pain came back again....now she is confined, I'm typing this in a dark room wit my mom anemic and not havin pain but they did leave the fentanyl patch plus vicodin plus tylenol plus an extra shot of morphine jus now as she felt better from 12 to around 8..the morphine is helping her sleep now.

    And to answer qs, she is jus natuarally hesitant, but I know today is different as she willingly begged for the patch and 911...now there is worry tht she has a leak ih her intestine so a cat scan was done again...if there is leak, option is surgery but my mom (Iand my stepdad and my 3 aunts agree too) to not do so as the surgeon even thought the high risk will make her end up in life support and sadly my mom choses to not be on life support if it happens...ultimately I think and hope she doesn't need surgery and I mainly want her pain to be better managed...her wellbeing and being able to fight for another day is more important for me, surgery felt like betting on the house..so I willk always trust and honor what my mom decides...and also a comment about me saying seeing close to the end, I TRULY REGRET SAYING THAt come tothink of it, my mom is very strongwilled and I KNOW she will get through this ordeal..thanks for keeping me sane :-)

    Big Hugs
    Hi Marc my heart goes out to you.l know what you are going through l went through the same thing with my mum.lts a horrible experience to see our parent or loved one get so weak or are so helpless that you feel you cant do anything.My mum passed two years ago in august 10 days after l got married she was terminal with breast cancer doctors only gave her weeks but she lasted 8 months she was stubborn to.lm concerned for you as a care giver you need to look after yourself l dont think you can continue with work the way you are.lf you can take time off do it or work from home.as lm from england we have social services here and carers not sure how it works in the states but isnt there anything similar?try & get back intouch with your friends even texting or mailing you & your stepdad need people around you.lm sorry for asking but is your mum terminal? or chemo has been stopped.just please look after yourself as best as you can.you & yr mom in my prayers.sonia